On the question of "first personal computers", I think Evan's response of Apr 22 11:16:22 was very even-handed and well-considered. Evan, like many of us, has the experience of describing and responding to A RANGE of questions, on the history of various forms of personal computing devices. He also has the experience, of seeing how current definitions of personal computing change - "what is" and "first" questions are retrospective. Of course, computing devices have "evolved" over time as well. "It's all relative" is a reasonable stance. As for "firsts". Since the definition varies, and since details vary, any claim to "first" must be qualified by function and time. Claims of firsts are more like conversation starters - or to pick a fight. As for "worshiping Wes Clark", he and his colleagues did an amazing thing with the LINC, at that point in time. And those of them still alive today, are STILL working on restoring LINC computers. Evan confuses admiration about results and persistence, for worship of a person at a point in time. --------- All that aside, I personally cringe whenever Evan refers to "the homebrew era". My interests are in S-100 systems; calling them "homebrew" suggests they were some person's one-off contraption from their basement. And retrospectively, casts them as second-class products, "homebrew" vs say "appliance". The generation of basement and garage craftspersons who made what they needed, seems to be lost history to the generation who buys everything they want. I don't have a better term today, but "craft computing" sounds better to me than "homebrew computing". I spent some time, developing an argument (formal history) for what I'm talking about. But it's too long for a reasonable reply to another subject. I'll make the argument another day for why "homebrew" computing sounds to people of my age, like Jed Clampett of the "Beverly Hillbillies" TV show. As in, stills of alcohol in rural middle America. Evan is talking about MY era, and me and my technical and business colleagues of the era aren't "hillbillies"! Herb Johnson Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net