Anyone have some success with getting the right tools to set a workflow for building cross platform coding on the Apple ][ ? I found some tools already which I hope someone can give us some advice to build a practical workflow. While helping Evan on his robot project, the traditional method of coding directly on the vintage platform becomes a burden when trying to collaborate over the phone, email or online. Because you can't see what's on their screen and you can't share the screen online as with today's desktops. No amount of chit-chatting to summarize the code without looking at it directly is going to help. For the moment, he wants to work with Applesoft Basic, and perhaps later once the bugs are worked out and the project is running, then dive into some 6502 assembly. In the past, because it's simply not practical to do that, I once had Evan and Jeff shine their phone's camera over the computer screen during a video conference to help debug the code, it worked :) But I suggested they get one of those goose-neck mounts to hold the phone or webcam so they can type faster Now I recommended that we change to the cross platform coding because it helps to share the code, share the work, especially when it comes time to debug any problems while we collaborate on this project from long distances. And these situations happen often on a new project, with new hardware, etc. So it becomes practical over the phone, email or online. I do this already with my C64 assembly coding project to collaborate with Jeff and others at long distances. But now I'm not sure if my google-foo has lots of static for this Apple ][ topic because I never had so much trouble finding enough info, versus the time when I had to setup one for my C64. It did take some time, but mostly to get familiar with the software tools out there which is specific to that machine. Then after it just took some time to iron out the steps between each tool. For the Apple ][ this is what I found so far 1. Editor = I think any editor would suffice here, maybe there's one specific for the Apple][ ? 2. Disk Imager = AppleCommander[jav], CiderPress[win], Ominvore[win], DiskBrowser[win] 3. Emulator = AppleWin[win], LinApple[nix]---> both are the same port 4. Floppy emulator = ADTPro[jav] via serial port Now these tools work as described, but there's still some glitches in the workflow problem#1, I can open any disk image with the tools mentioned. But then when I try to extract the Basic file on my desktop, the tools give you 2 choices, either the original Apple format, or text format. The original format is so you can later import the file to the disk image. But then it's not possible to edit the file cause I can't locate an editor which can view the file in the first place. And the viewer in the disk imagers don't let you edit file. problem#2, With AppleCommander, i can extract the Basic file. It's always exported as a text file. But then it insert extra CR's on every line. I can edit the code. then import the file back into the disk image. I can verify the code is good when I view this in the disk imager. And then I load this into the emulator. But when I list the file, there's always some glitches with extra lines of garbage text, either at the beginning or end, maybe in the middle. So we can do the basic things[summary], load disk images, make disk images, view files in the disk images, extract files from the disk images[not 100%], But then, we can't successfully import the files from the desktop with the Basic code, into the disk images for the emulator or live hardware, even though the viewer in the disk imager verifies its there and readable, the listing viewed in the emulator shows the glitches This is what we're facing and we like to find somebody that can give us advice on this ------------------- For the C64, I use Assembly coding. It became easier to build a practical workflow. I just use an editor, then a script for the Assembler to build the code, the symbol table, listing file, even a debug listing for the emulator, so I can set breakpoints on the labels from the code when debugging, and even the image file so I can add it to the disk image. Then there's a 2nd tool to build the disk images for the Commodore systems. And then a very powerful emulator called VICE, which handles every single computer made by Commodore -- to load the disk images for testing/debugging the code. And the same disk image is stored on a SD card to load into the C64 hardware for live testing. For Assembly coding, it's only 5 tools for cross platform coding on the C64 Plus there are some other tools which you use in parallel, for creating graphics, sprites and sound effects, and SID music 1. Editor 2. Assembler = DASM 3. Disk Imager 4. Emulator = VICE 5. uIEC = SD card floppy For those that use Basic coding, it's even simpler. Lots of people have been very progressive in building powerful coding tools for the Commodore scene. So there's one called CBM studio. This replaces #1, #2, and #3. 1. CBM studio 2. Emulator = VICE 3. uIEC = SD card floppy Some use the CBM studio for Assembly coding. But as you know with Assemblers, not all are compatible, because of their syntax style. So I try to avoid stuff like that. Because on one project, I tried to rewrite this network game, it was coded using DASM and I wasn't about to edit 100's of lines of code in a dozen files just for that, I had enough work ahead of me already, so I just kept using my editor and that assembler. ----------------------------- And there there's always the issue that many of the tools are not built for multiple desktop platforms. I don't fault the developers for this. Because there are some very good and powerful software tools for all aspects of the machine, for graphics hardware, sound hardware, etc, not just assembly coding. So I just keep using tools like VMware to run the different tools. You have to give lots of credit to the many people who devote so much time to building these tools. Because it really promotes a wide avenue for other people to use these to get very creative. I noticed there are always multiple types of people, this is just one example. People who know how to build the right tools for you, and people that get very creative by using the right tools. Example, If you want to build your own house, you like to find the right tools, rather than getting the "forge and anvil" to build your tools -- which can already be done better by those experts who devote their time -- so you can spend more time being creative on your house design. Dan