I have been meaning to set up a simple proxy for older machines that don't use SSL at all, or SSH. Just have not gotten around to it. Not too complicated I don't think but I have not done it yet so I can't say with 100% certainty until I do. When I do I will make the service available somehow. Bill On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 12:02 PM <vcf-midatlantic-request@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Vintage Server Racks FS or trade (Jeffrey Golas) 2. Museum Report 18-11-11 November 11, 2018 (Jeffrey Brace) 3. Re: Museum Report 18-11-11 November 11, 2018 (Tony Bogan) 4. www locks out older browsers (Jim Scheef) 5. Re: www locks out older browsers (Sentrytv) 6. Re: www locks out older browsers (David Gesswein) 7. Re: www locks out older browsers (Ethan O'Toole) 8. Re: www locks out older browsers (Jim Scheef) 9. Re: Hello Introduction (Drew Notarnicola)
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Message: 1 Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2018 15:47:49 -0500 From: Jeffrey Golas <jeffg@junknet.net> To: vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org Subject: Vintage Server Racks FS or trade Message-ID: <FD99E9BD-9D65-4DEA-9D92-506D5144FD36@junknet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I have a vintage 1970s (or 60s?) server cabinet for sale. Good shape, blue filler panel on front and white panels on sides.
Round hole, front panel can be removed. Breaker at bottom can be used as a power switch and is accesible from the front.
Note that this is the rack only (anything else in pics is not for sale).
Located in Blue Bell, PA (outside Philly) Best offer or trade for an interesting terminal or maybe s-100 boards?
Pics here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cvohi2n8oog78tz/AACZBt9LiZPgTA-CZbGjD2dCa?dl=0
Jeff
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Message: 2 Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2018 17:01:54 -0500 From: Jeffrey Brace <jeffrey@vcfed.org> To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] Museum Report 18-11-11 November 11, 2018 Message-ID: < CALWfZA+QaYcA8KraETqrL6irK-z7rsVckY6MTRTPCN4gEoSk8g@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Good and steady busy day at the museum. About 2 dozen visitors in total today. In groups between 1 to 5 spread out throughout the day. Some of it was because of some World War I event in 9032-A, but mostly it was because it is cold day and this time of year things start to pick up again as people look for indoor things to do.
Lots of nice visitors with medium to high interest. Some really knew their stuff.
-- ========================================= Jeff Brace Vice President Vintage Computer Federation
-- ========================================= Jeff Brace Vice President Vintage Computer Federation
------------------------------
Message: 3 Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2018 17:07:49 -0500 From: Tony Bogan <thebogans@mac.com> To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Museum Report 18-11-11 November 11, 2018 Message-ID: <5423C908-ADCB-4325-A943-B0216590E4C0@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Glad to hear it was such a good day!!
I forgot today was the 100th anniversary of Armistice Day. Wanted to go up to IA for that but got stuck at work darnit!!
Was the day of the Armistice with Germany (11am on the 11th day of the 11th month of 1918) which marked the end of all hostilities between the Allies and Germany.
Tony
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Message: 4 Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 01:08:43 -0500 From: "Jim Scheef" <js@sdf.org> To: "'vcf-midatlantic'" <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] www locks out older browsers Message-ID: <000001d47a4e$2d55ea30$8801be90$@sdf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Hello all,
After playing with an eMac running OS X 10.3 several months back, I let it sit for a few months. Now it can no longer open most common websites. So what changed while the machine was not even plugged in? After some investigation I realized that main-stream sites have changed their SSL to require TLS 1.2, mostly because it actually works. The result is that vintage browsers return an error similar to ?cannot establish secure connection?. Forcing SSL by refusing to connect on port 80, these sites have locked out many vintage machines.
So, what can be done? The obvious solution is to find a modern browser that runs on your vintage OS. This may require an OS upgrade (OS X 10.4 should run on the eMac) which allows running TenFourFox, which seems to include TLS 1.2.
The irony that in the name of security, the machine used to invent the web (NeXT) may no longer be able to display it.
Any thoughts?
Jim
------------------------------
Message: 5 Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 07:09:15 -0500 From: Sentrytv <sentrytv@yahoo.com> To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] www locks out older browsers Message-ID: <C464DEB7-3DE0-40BA-94EA-2D1F8AC432BD@yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I had a Mac G5 tower that was running 10.58. I found a Mozilla browser for this OS and it was working pretty well.
When I sold the tower about six months ago, of course the websites were working well. If I find the link for it I will post it.
Mike R.
Sent from: My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device.
On Nov 12, 2018, at 1:08 AM, Jim Scheef via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Hello all,
After playing with an eMac running OS X 10.3 several months back, I let it sit for a few months. Now it can no longer open most common websites. So what changed while the machine was not even plugged in? After some investigation I realized that main-stream sites have changed their SSL to require TLS 1.2, mostly because it actually works. The result is that vintage browsers return an error similar to ?cannot establish secure connection?. Forcing SSL by refusing to connect on port 80, these sites have locked out many vintage machines.
So, what can be done? The obvious solution is to find a modern browser that runs on your vintage OS. This may require an OS upgrade (OS X 10.4 should run on the eMac) which allows running TenFourFox, which seems to include TLS 1.2.
The irony that in the name of security, the machine used to invent the web (NeXT) may no longer be able to display it.
Any thoughts?
Jim
------------------------------
Message: 6 Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 07:21:13 -0500 From: David Gesswein <djg@pdp8online.com> To: Jim Scheef via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] www locks out older browsers Message-ID: <20181112122112.GA20797@hugin2.pdp8online.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I assume you could run a local proxy that converts. It breaks the end to end security though. Businesses use these proxys for monitoring.
On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 01:08:43AM -0500, Jim Scheef via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Hello all,
After playing with an eMac running OS X 10.3 several months back, I let it sit for a few months. Now it can no longer open most common websites. So what changed while the machine was not even plugged in? After some investigation I realized that main-stream sites have changed their SSL to require TLS 1.2, mostly because it actually works. The result is that vintage browsers return an error similar to ???cannot establish secure connection???. Forcing SSL by refusing to connect on port 80, these sites have locked out many vintage machines.
So, what can be done? The obvious solution is to find a modern browser that runs on your vintage OS. This may require an OS upgrade (OS X 10.4 should run on the eMac) which allows running TenFourFox, which seems to include TLS 1.2.
The irony that in the name of security, the machine used to invent the web (NeXT) may no longer be able to display it.
Any thoughts?
Jim
------------------------------
Message: 7 Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 10:26:43 -0500 (EST) From: Ethan O'Toole <telmnstr@757.org> To: David Gesswein via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] www locks out older browsers Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1811121026100.26294@users.757.org> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
The irony that in the name of security, the machine used to invent the web (NeXT) may no longer be able to display it.
Maybe a proxy could be built that handles satisfying the TLS 1.2 then unwraps it for the old systems.
- Ethan
------------------------------
Message: 8 Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 11:16:53 -0500 From: "Jim Scheef" <js@sdf.org> To: "'vcf-midatlantic'" <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] www locks out older browsers Message-ID: <003c01d47aa3$22f3adc0$68db0940$@sdf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
David, I first posed this question on the Vintage Apple Macintosh Enthusiasts group on FB. Jason Duerstock commented: "It's not trivial, but I believe you're looking for something like this:
https://serverfault.com/questions/822453/proxy-server-accepting-tls-1-0-and- calling-tls-1-2-downstream <https://serverfault.com/questions/822453/proxy-server-accepting-tls-1-0-and-calling-tls-1-2-downstream> Proxy server accepting TLS 1.0 and calling TLS 1.2 downstream" The documentation https://mitmproxy.readthedocs.io/en/v2.0.2/features/reverseproxy.html is easier to read. Seeing that we were quite happy using these sites without any encryption, the loss of end to end security seems inconsequential. The key words in Jason's comment were "It's not trivial..." Jim
-----Original Message----- From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces@lists.vcfed.org> On Behalf Of David Gesswein via vcf-midatlantic Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 7:21 AM To: Jim Scheef via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Cc: David Gesswein <djg@pdp8online.com> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] www locks out older browsers
I assume you could run a local proxy that converts. It breaks the end to end security though. Businesses use these proxys for monitoring.
On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 01:08:43AM -0500, Jim Scheef via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Hello all,
After playing with an eMac running OS X 10.3 several months back, I let it sit for a few months. Now it can no longer open most common websites. So what changed while the machine was not even plugged in? After some investigation I realized that main-stream sites have changed their SSL to require TLS 1.2, mostly because it actually works. The result is that vintage browsers return an error similar to ???cannot establish secure connection???. Forcing SSL by refusing to connect on port 80, these sites have locked out many vintage machines.
So, what can be done? The obvious solution is to find a modern browser that runs on your vintage OS. This may require an OS upgrade (OS X 10.4 should run on the eMac) which allows running TenFourFox, which seems to include TLS 1.2.
The irony that in the name of security, the machine used to invent the web (NeXT) may no longer be able to display it.
Any thoughts?
Jim
------------------------------
Message: 9 Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 11:25:41 -0500 From: Drew Notarnicola <drew.notarnicola@gmail.com> To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Hello Introduction Message-ID: <CAPP9A8GC7wxkvCF=O=+ 30Ek_jw0vjZ0-uNOL1i0057EA4YBN8g@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Hey Tom! Nice to see a new name around here. I'm not a ham but I am a Radio Shack Model 100 fan, so if you ever want to talk about those I'm your guy! What did you use yours for back in the day? Drew
On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 11:04 AM Tom McNicholas via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Evan suggested I post a hello and background not sure of length or detail is the norm,, so here goes Retired a few years ago but still on the board of directors after a 45 year stint with a local electronics manufacturing company doing DOD work. during the 45 years did everything from testing, QA, engineering and plant manager Prior to the 45 year stint was in the USAF working on VHF, UHF and teaching then a couple of DOD manufacturing companies working on SSB transmitters, Radar, Sonar and microwave.,
During the 70,s at work used the Apple II and later the Mac during the 80,ss and at that time started using the commodore 64 and Radio Shack 100 at home latter moving to the 128 and then building IBM clones from parts bought at computer shows. Now all I do is just buy them ,too many as per my wife. .
Presently have a small collection of vintage computers around 25 which I am sure is nothing compared to other members of the group. But I am looking forward to meeting others in the group who share my interest in vintage computers.
My only other interests outside of family and grandchildren are short wave radio and occasional riding on my Can Am trike.
Regards Tom McNicholas Wall NJ
End of vcf-midatlantic Digest, Vol 6, Issue 12 **********************************************