However, consider that, over time, it may matter less and less as a larger volume of old media gets archived. Maybe it’s ok that these devices are somewhat ephemeral. Just food for thought. On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 11:45 AM Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
There are a number of newer tools, for imaging of disks, for preservation.
I've been closely watching this one [called Fluxengine] http://cowlark.com/fluxengine/index.html
The author is working on support for a lot of common formats, and additionally, a number of the 80s-90s dedicated word processor formats. It's a simple and rather nifty solution.
Also, of course, it's 100% opens source hardware and software, which always makes me happy! - Alex
This reply is long, because I'm arguing in opposition, and that means I have to make a case about, and explain about. But I'll save some people, some time. I"m going to fuss about these microcontrollers becoming obsolete. If you don't care about that, save time and stop reading here.
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Well, I read some of the support information on the Fluxengine. Also I looked recently, at the Greaseweasel. Both these methodologies use some kind of $10 - $20 commodity microcontroller; and that's their problem in my opinion. Those interested can look up both and size them up, so I won't talk about details and features.
The Greaseweasel uses a STM32 microcontroller chip on a board called "a Blue Pill". Problem with that (in my opinion) is, that chip isn't just one chip produced identically. There's knockoffs and fakes, that is less-featured chip versions remarked or not remarked. And since that "product" is more than five years old apparently, it's somewhat out of favor (that's my conclusion, it seems hard to find except on eBay).
Bottom line, it's not now produced by bigger named hobby or industrial companies; they all seem to come from ebay/Amazon small producers. At literally a few dollars each, the only way to make more money from these, is to use cheaper components or reduced feature components. For instance: the 3.3V regulators fail because they are undersized for power. When I looked around Amazon for these, the reviews per seller were all "these are fakes because".
This is not just Herb Johnson's problem. The Greaseweasel support page on github, has a section on how to recognize fakes with performance and visual tests. It does not have, a section on where to buy these. Apparently one has to join a Facebook group to get answers and further support. I won't do that, but someone offered to look there for me, to see if they discuss suppliers. No word yet on that.
"Why is this a problem?" Specifically: some of the knockoff boards fail, apparently, because their 3.3V regulators burn up. Others, lack some useful features or even critical features (enough memory for instance). And in the longer term, the ability to obtain these items at all, may end. In between, the means to (say) assemble the code or download the code into the device, may become obsolete or unavailable.
In general, the problem with end-of-production items is this: Because you and I are dealing with *vintage computing*. We deal with technology that's *decades* old, not last month. When products fall out of production, how do you get more? When things break, how do you fix them? When you can't get the programming debugging tools from the manufacturer (or producers), you have to find old archives of them.
In the real world, this stuff is normal. Things don't persist. You just move on to what's current and throw out the old. We in vintage computing, can't do that by definition. OK? If you disagree, stop reading here, sorry I wasted your time fussing about stuff getting old.
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I described at length the problem with Greaseweasel hardware, because I'll make the same argument as a *prediction* for Fluxengine. It uses a "Cypress PSoC5LP CY8CKIT-059 development board" for $10. That's apparently some ARM processor with FPGA (programmable logic). At this point, Cypress (a leading chip producer) is selling them direct. Let's check... yep, $10 from cypress.com or $20 from major distributors, plus shipping. One expects delays due to Coronavirus disrupting manufacture and shipping except from USA stocks.
I have another objection, to programmable logic. All those PLD's are unique by model and brand. They simply don't stay in production for many years. Worse, the software tools needed to program those specific devices, become unsupported in several years. There's no standards for such tools and software, other than some data formats, so you are stuck with that brand's tool-set.
This is, of course, an intended consequence. Figure that out.
I checked the datasheets for the product: they date from early 2015. That's about the same age as the "Blue Pill". But this is still produced (or at least offered as current) by Cypress. Also: since this has a very particular programmable-logic set-of-features, it may be hard to knock-off the chip by an unlicensed company. That's my guess.
So: looking at Amazon, they only sell a book. Looking at eBay, There's a couple units from the UK for $28-$33 with shipping. I'd not buy from Europe right now... a few are US sold but essentially it's left-over stocks.
So: again in my opinion: while this product is still in manufacturer's production, it suffers from being too proprietary - Cypress will lose interest someday soon. Also, there's that unique-programming problem, figuring out how-to-program those PLA's. If you aren't gonna reprogram one of these puppies, I guess that doesn't matter, until there's a Fluxengine update you can't update.
And in closing ....
The reason I'm familiar with this kind of "these go obsolete" arguments, is because I've seen this show before. Over the last few decades, various modern means to read ancient floppy diskettes have been produced. They have become in-favor and discussed and distributed. Then the developers lose interest; then the users lose interest; and they go out of production and use. Over geologic time (several years), these things simply come and go.
So the vintage computers remain, but these modern devices do not. That's about as simple as I can put the argument.
Regards, Herb Johnson
-- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info