I find Evan's responses satisfactory, and reasonable. If he says he wasn't opposed to old microcontroller discussions, good; sorry for my misunderstanding. And I wasn't out to attack him personally; just ideologically. I think prolonged discussions here of modern tools and architectures, in modern context, are to be discouraged. But as they are relevant to support vintage computing - RaspPi's emulating, WiFi chips on Commodore 64's, vintage architectures, etc. - then discussion is useful. I guess Evan started that discussion to make that point. Another discussion group, supports the COSMAC 1802. There's recent discussions there, of how USB/serial dongles complicate use of the 1802 at 2Mhz with a bit-banged (low baud rate, low response) serial interface. That discussion won't occur in USB world, or in Windows world - they would find such applications inexpiable, foreign. But I don't participate in those worlds - too "new". Thus discussion groups limit their range, for purpose. Herb Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net