All — I’m progressing well with the Windows 1.04 SDK -- I’ve gotten all of the binders and books scanned. The software is fully captured and I’m trying to create a “build environment” for this as a demo. I’ve tried to get Windows to work properly in various combinations of virtual environments with limited success. I’ve used Parallels on the Mac, VirtualBox on the Mac and PC, Bochs on the PC and Microsoft Virtual PC on the PC. I have a complete log of my findings if anyone’s interested. Only Parallels on the Mac worked completely. On Microsoft VirtualPC under Windows 7, it almost worked, but button clicks didn’t register. Bochs was the worst performer. Most of the issues have to do with capturing the mouse — Windows 1 predated PS/2 mice so a mouse has to be mapped to the virtual COM port or the InPort bus interface, which the virtualizations seemingly do with limited success and not at all, respectively. Some had problems with MSDOS 3.31 diskette images or 32MB virtual hard drives (the limit for DOS 3.31). Others had issues booting Windows under DOS 5. Has anyone successfully gotten Windows 1 to work within any virtual environment with working mouse support? If so, what was the exact software configuration so that I can replicate it here? Thanks! Rich -- Rich Cini http://www.classiccmp.org/cini http://www.classiccmp.org/altair32
The model 25 collegiate kit ran 1.04 on two 720k disks with a ps/2 mouse. Bill Degnan twitter: billdeg vintagecomputer.net On Apr 27, 2016 9:35 PM, "Richard Cini via vcf-midatlantic" < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
All —
I’m progressing well with the Windows 1.04 SDK -- I’ve gotten all of the binders and books scanned. The software is fully captured and I’m trying to create a “build environment” for this as a demo.
I’ve tried to get Windows to work properly in various combinations of virtual environments with limited success. I’ve used Parallels on the Mac, VirtualBox on the Mac and PC, Bochs on the PC and Microsoft Virtual PC on the PC. I have a complete log of my findings if anyone’s interested.
Only Parallels on the Mac worked completely. On Microsoft VirtualPC under Windows 7, it almost worked, but button clicks didn’t register. Bochs was the worst performer.
Most of the issues have to do with capturing the mouse — Windows 1 predated PS/2 mice so a mouse has to be mapped to the virtual COM port or the InPort bus interface, which the virtualizations seemingly do with limited success and not at all, respectively. Some had problems with MSDOS 3.31 diskette images or 32MB virtual hard drives (the limit for DOS 3.31). Others had issues booting Windows under DOS 5.
Has anyone successfully gotten Windows 1 to work within any virtual environment with working mouse support? If so, what was the exact software configuration so that I can replicate it here?
Thanks!
Rich
-- Rich Cini http://www.classiccmp.org/cini http://www.classiccmp.org/altair32
Bill - Thanks. If that's the case then it's an issue with how the Windows driver interacts with the virtual hardware as it doesn't work on any virtual setup I tried. One driver can be set for PS/2 and it finds the mouse but it's not captured. I have a real DOS machine in the shop and I will try to do an install on real hardware to prove that out. I'd really like to get this working in a virtual machine so others can experience it. Rich Cini Sent from my iPad
On Apr 27, 2016, at 10:04 PM, william degnan via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
The model 25 collegiate kit ran 1.04 on two 720k disks with a ps/2 mouse.
Bill Degnan twitter: billdeg vintagecomputer.net On Apr 27, 2016 9:35 PM, "Richard Cini via vcf-midatlantic" < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
All —
I’m progressing well with the Windows 1.04 SDK -- I’ve gotten all of the binders and books scanned. The software is fully captured and I’m trying to create a “build environment” for this as a demo.
I’ve tried to get Windows to work properly in various combinations of virtual environments with limited success. I’ve used Parallels on the Mac, VirtualBox on the Mac and PC, Bochs on the PC and Microsoft Virtual PC on the PC. I have a complete log of my findings if anyone’s interested.
Only Parallels on the Mac worked completely. On Microsoft VirtualPC under Windows 7, it almost worked, but button clicks didn’t register. Bochs was the worst performer.
Most of the issues have to do with capturing the mouse — Windows 1 predated PS/2 mice so a mouse has to be mapped to the virtual COM port or the InPort bus interface, which the virtualizations seemingly do with limited success and not at all, respectively. Some had problems with MSDOS 3.31 diskette images or 32MB virtual hard drives (the limit for DOS 3.31). Others had issues booting Windows under DOS 5.
Has anyone successfully gotten Windows 1 to work within any virtual environment with working mouse support? If so, what was the exact software configuration so that I can replicate it here?
Thanks!
Rich
-- Rich Cini http://www.classiccmp.org/cini http://www.classiccmp.org/altair32
On Apr 27, 2016, at 8:36 PM, Rich Cini via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Bill -
Thanks. If that's the case then it's an issue with how the Windows driver interacts with the virtual hardware as it doesn't work on any virtual setup I tried. One driver can be set for PS/2 and it finds the mouse but it's not captured.
I have a real DOS machine in the shop and I will try to do an install on real hardware to prove that out. I'd really like to get this working in a virtual machine so others can experience it.
Rich Cini
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 27, 2016, at 10:04 PM, william degnan via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
The model 25 collegiate kit ran 1.04 on two 720k disks with a ps/2 mouse.
Bill Degnan twitter: billdeg vintagecomputer.net On Apr 27, 2016 9:35 PM, "Richard Cini via vcf-midatlantic" < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
All —
I’m progressing well with the Windows 1.04 SDK -- I’ve gotten all of the binders and books scanned. The software is fully captured and I’m trying to create a “build environment” for this as a demo.
I’ve tried to get Windows to work properly in various combinations of virtual environments with limited success. I’ve used Parallels on the Mac, VirtualBox on the Mac and PC, Bochs on the PC and Microsoft Virtual PC on the PC. I have a complete log of my findings if anyone’s interested.
Only Parallels on the Mac worked completely. On Microsoft VirtualPC under Windows 7, it almost worked, but button clicks didn’t register. Bochs was the worst performer.
Most of the issues have to do with capturing the mouse — Windows 1 predated PS/2 mice so a mouse has to be mapped to the virtual COM port or the InPort bus interface, which the virtualizations seemingly do with limited success and not at all, respectively. Some had problems with MSDOS 3.31 diskette images or 32MB virtual hard drives (the limit for DOS 3.31). Others had issues booting Windows under DOS 5.
Has anyone successfully gotten Windows 1 to work within any virtual environment with working mouse support? If so, what was the exact software configuration so that I can replicate it here?
Thanks!
Rich
-- Rich Cini http://www.classiccmp.org/cini http://www.classiccmp.org/altair32
I had Windows 1.04 running in emulation in on MacBook Air. The problem was the mouse driver. If I recall I used dosbox in PCjr mode and mapped the serial driver to a serial usb converter and used my green eye Microsoft mouse when I was sorting out how to run it on my PCjr for VCF east last year. BTW I know you can use the driver from Windows 2.0 to add ps/2 mouse support to use the mouse support dosbox. I assume you want to do it differently. Cheers, Corey corey cohen uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ
I did not know that. You mean mouse.drv from the Windows distribution disks? If that's the case then that should solve the problem. I have 2.x somewhere at home. I tried the USB dongle thing and VirtualBox on the PC couldn't map either \\.\COM3 or COM3 successfully, nor /dev/tty.usbserial on the Mac. Bochs I find a bit clunky to use and won't always boot every image I create. MSVPC is slick but won't work on Windows 10. PS/2 support across the virtualization a seems to be fine (the host mouse works in Norton Commander, for example). I was looking for a cross-platform (Mac and PC) solution so anyone could replicate it. Rich Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 28, 2016, at 8:18 AM, Corey Cohen <applecorey@optonline.net> wrote:
On Apr 27, 2016, at 8:36 PM, Rich Cini via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Bill -
Thanks. If that's the case then it's an issue with how the Windows driver interacts with the virtual hardware as it doesn't work on any virtual setup I tried. One driver can be set for PS/2 and it finds the mouse but it's not captured.
I have a real DOS machine in the shop and I will try to do an install on real hardware to prove that out. I'd really like to get this working in a virtual machine so others can experience it.
Rich Cini
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 27, 2016, at 10:04 PM, william degnan via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
The model 25 collegiate kit ran 1.04 on two 720k disks with a ps/2 mouse.
Bill Degnan twitter: billdeg vintagecomputer.net On Apr 27, 2016 9:35 PM, "Richard Cini via vcf-midatlantic" < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
All —
I’m progressing well with the Windows 1.04 SDK -- I’ve gotten all of the binders and books scanned. The software is fully captured and I’m trying to create a “build environment” for this as a demo.
I’ve tried to get Windows to work properly in various combinations of virtual environments with limited success. I’ve used Parallels on the Mac, VirtualBox on the Mac and PC, Bochs on the PC and Microsoft Virtual PC on the PC. I have a complete log of my findings if anyone’s interested.
Only Parallels on the Mac worked completely. On Microsoft VirtualPC under Windows 7, it almost worked, but button clicks didn’t register. Bochs was the worst performer.
Most of the issues have to do with capturing the mouse — Windows 1 predated PS/2 mice so a mouse has to be mapped to the virtual COM port or the InPort bus interface, which the virtualizations seemingly do with limited success and not at all, respectively. Some had problems with MSDOS 3.31 diskette images or 32MB virtual hard drives (the limit for DOS 3.31). Others had issues booting Windows under DOS 5.
Has anyone successfully gotten Windows 1 to work within any virtual environment with working mouse support? If so, what was the exact software configuration so that I can replicate it here?
Thanks!
Rich
-- Rich Cini http://www.classiccmp.org/cini http://www.classiccmp.org/altair32
I had Windows 1.04 running in emulation in on MacBook Air. The problem was the mouse driver. If I recall I used dosbox in PCjr mode and mapped the serial driver to a serial usb converter and used my green eye Microsoft mouse when I was sorting out how to run it on my PCjr for VCF east last year.
BTW I know you can use the driver from Windows 2.0 to add ps/2 mouse support to use the mouse support dosbox. I assume you want to do it differently.
Cheers, Corey
corey cohen uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ
My Win 1.04 for PS/2 loads mouse drivers at the DOS level I thought, not on at "Windows Level" noting Win 1 is just a DOS application sitting on DOS 3.3 (for my system). It may be that you need the "Collegiate Kit" disks for virtual boxes, with two virtual a and b drives. -- @ BillDeg: Web: vintagecomputer.net Twitter: @billdeg <https://twitter.com/billdeg> Youtube: @billdeg <https://www.youtube.com/user/billdeg> Unauthorized Bio <http://www.vintagecomputer.net/readme.cfm>
The mouse drivers I'm using are at the DOS level as well. Version 6.03 right from the SDK, installed from config.sys. I also downloaded versions 7.04 and 8.20 (all DOS drivers). I think Corey was referring to patching the Windows install with a later Windows system driver that's PS/2 aware. I will do an install of 1.04 on a real PC tonight with a PS/2 mouse and see if it works. I just googled the "collegiate kit disks" and nothing useful comes up. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 28, 2016, at 8:59 AM, william degnan via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
My Win 1.04 for PS/2 loads mouse drivers at the DOS level I thought, not on at "Windows Level" noting Win 1 is just a DOS application sitting on DOS 3.3 (for my system). It may be that you need the "Collegiate Kit" disks for virtual boxes, with two virtual a and b drives.
-- @ BillDeg: Web: vintagecomputer.net Twitter: @billdeg <https://twitter.com/billdeg> Youtube: @billdeg <https://www.youtube.com/user/billdeg> Unauthorized Bio <http://www.vintagecomputer.net/readme.cfm>
To follow-up on this: * I found my 720k disks which appear to be PS/2 versions because the only video adapters listed are Display Adapter or 8514/a, PS/2 30, 50, 60, 80. Only the PS/2-30 display works, and only in B&W mode. * This version has a PS/2 mouse option. With this option selected, the mouse works fine. This configuration isn’t stable and the screen garbles eventually. Host is VirtualBox on OS X. So, I then took the Windows 2.03 mouse driver file (mouse) and copied it to the Win104 disk. Mouse now works but in VirtualBox OS X, there is a hard crash and the screen garbles. On the PC version, it works just fine. Not sure what’s up with that. Back to Parallels using the same driver substitution as above. Running the DOS mouse driver that comes with the SDK (6.03) and it works just fine. The tracking is a bit fast, but it works. I’m using 64mb of RAM, a 64mb hard disk image (two 32mb partitions) and Compaq DOS 3.31. Pick “Microsoft Mouse (bus/serial)” and “EGA (memory >64k)” when building Windows. Further, there appears to be a minor incompatibility or other anomaly between the OS X and PC versions of VirtualBox. I need to try on Bochs. Rich -- Rich Cini http://www.classiccmp.org/cini http://www.classiccmp.org/altair32 On 4/28/16, 9:14 AM, "vcf-midatlantic on behalf of Richard Cini via vcf-midatlantic" <vcf-midatlantic-bounces@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org on behalf of vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
The mouse drivers I'm using are at the DOS level as well. Version 6.03 right from the SDK, installed from config.sys.
I also downloaded versions 7.04 and 8.20 (all DOS drivers). I think Corey was referring to patching the Windows install with a later Windows system driver that's PS/2 aware.
I will do an install of 1.04 on a real PC tonight with a PS/2 mouse and see if it works.
I just googled the "collegiate kit disks" and nothing useful comes up.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 28, 2016, at 8:59 AM, william degnan via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
My Win 1.04 for PS/2 loads mouse drivers at the DOS level I thought, not on at "Windows Level" noting Win 1 is just a DOS application sitting on DOS 3.3 (for my system). It may be that you need the "Collegiate Kit" disks for virtual boxes, with two virtual a and b drives.
-- @ BillDeg: Web: vintagecomputer.net Twitter: @billdeg <https://twitter.com/billdeg> Youtube: @billdeg <https://www.youtube.com/user/billdeg> Unauthorized Bio <http://www.vintagecomputer.net/readme.cfm>
participants (4)
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Corey Cohen -
Rich Cini -
Richard Cini
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william degnan