Inventor of the first personal computer dies - and it's not who you think
On the question of "first personal computers", I think Evan's response of Apr 22 11:16:22 was very even-handed and well-considered. Evan, like many of us, has the experience of describing and responding to A RANGE of questions, on the history of various forms of personal computing devices. He also has the experience, of seeing how current definitions of personal computing change - "what is" and "first" questions are retrospective. Of course, computing devices have "evolved" over time as well. "It's all relative" is a reasonable stance. As for "firsts". Since the definition varies, and since details vary, any claim to "first" must be qualified by function and time. Claims of firsts are more like conversation starters - or to pick a fight. As for "worshiping Wes Clark", he and his colleagues did an amazing thing with the LINC, at that point in time. And those of them still alive today, are STILL working on restoring LINC computers. Evan confuses admiration about results and persistence, for worship of a person at a point in time. --------- All that aside, I personally cringe whenever Evan refers to "the homebrew era". My interests are in S-100 systems; calling them "homebrew" suggests they were some person's one-off contraption from their basement. And retrospectively, casts them as second-class products, "homebrew" vs say "appliance". The generation of basement and garage craftspersons who made what they needed, seems to be lost history to the generation who buys everything they want. I don't have a better term today, but "craft computing" sounds better to me than "homebrew computing". I spent some time, developing an argument (formal history) for what I'm talking about. But it's too long for a reasonable reply to another subject. I'll make the argument another day for why "homebrew" computing sounds to people of my age, like Jed Clampett of the "Beverly Hillbillies" TV show. As in, stills of alcohol in rural middle America. Evan is talking about MY era, and me and my technical and business colleagues of the era aren't "hillbillies"! Herb Johnson Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net
On the question of "first personal computers", I think Evan's response of Apr 22 11:16:22 was very even-handed and well-considered.
Thank you.
Evan confuses admiration about results and persistence, for worship of a person at a point in time.
I immensely admire and respect what Wed did. I just see a lot of people in our hobby take any one inventor and hold that person above all others. For me it's Mauchly and Woz. :)
I personally cringe whenever Evan refers to "the homebrew era"... calling them "homebrew" suggests they were some person's one-off contraption from their basement. And retrospectively, casts them as second-class products
I promise you that's not what I meant.
Wait, you're telling me Alan Alda didn't invent the first computer? The Atari? ;-) (I'm sure I'm gonna get shot ... ) -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
Shatner invented the VIC-20 On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Wait, you're telling me Alan Alda didn't invent the first computer? The Atari?
;-)
(I'm sure I'm gonna get shot ... )
-- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
Right. And Cosby invented Jell-O. On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Shatner invented the VIC-20
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Wait, you're telling me Alan Alda didn't invent the first computer? The Atari?
;-)
(I'm sure I'm gonna get shot ... )
-- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
Hang on.....I thought Steve Jobs invented the personal computer!!!! ;-) (Ducks, runs for cover) Tony Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 24, 2017, at 2:19 PM, Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Shatner invented the VIC-20
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Wait, you're telling me Alan Alda didn't invent the first computer? The Atari?
;-)
(I'm sure I'm gonna get shot ... )
-- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
On Mon, 24 Apr 2017, Tony Bogan via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Hang on.....I thought Steve Jobs invented the personal computer!!!! ;-)
INCORRECT! Everyone knows that Charlie Chaplin invented the (IBM) PC. :) -- Jameel Akari
On Apr 24, 2017, at 2:19 PM, Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Shatner invented the VIC-20
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Wait, you're telling me Alan Alda didn't invent the first computer? The Atari?
Guys, if you're going to joke about who "invented the computer," then at least think up something witty...
I wasn't trying to be witty, I've read on the Internet and seen on tv that Steve Jobs was responsible for inventing the personal computer so it must be true! Tony Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 24, 2017, at 4:02 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Guys, if you're going to joke about who "invented the computer," then at least think up something witty...
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
I wasn't trying to be witty
And it shows. :)
Herb made serious points.
Then the thread went downhill with a bunch of dumb jokes.
Just want to say...I don't think Evan is saying the homebrew era stuff is not good, it's less evolved, kind of like cars were before the model T assembly line process was applied to cars. There were many well-crafted cars before the model T, but they were harder to support, small scale operations. S-100 in particular evolved nicely into the 80's and lasted for a good 10 years of strong sales 76-86. At the end of this run they were hardly homebrew systems. When you compare the s-100s of 1976 with s-100s of 1986, clearly the former for "homebrew" in comparison. Smart, crafted but certainly not industrially assembled. The quality control of the industrial process was a necessary component of the appliance computers, ISA bus, IEE686 S-100, Apple II, etc. Apple I homebrew (brilliantly designed, crafted/assembled and tested by an expert) Apple II appliance (brilliantly designed, industrially produced, cost more of a factor, QA by software and standardized.) Bill
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 4:23 PM, william degnan via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Just want to say...I don't think Evan is saying the homebrew era stuff is not good, it's less evolved, kind of like cars were before the model T assembly line process was applied to cars. There were many well-crafted cars before the model T, but they were harder to support, small scale operations.
When I think of "Homebrew" I think of the definition "made at home, rather than in a store or factory." thats all. I mean that was the term people used back then, I mean if I am wrong please correct me I understand where Herb prefers "craft computing" over "homebrew computing" But for whatever reason it bothers me. It's like when people call things artisanal. I happen to like Homebrew because it sounds more grounded and it more of what I believe people during that time would label those machines.
When you compare the s-100s of 1976 with s-100s of 1986, clearly the former for "homebrew" in comparison. Smart, crafted but certainly not industrially assembled. The quality control of the industrial process was a necessary component of the appliance computers, ISA bus, IEE686 S-100, Apple II, etc.
Agreed. This is not to say there were bad or unsophisticated, they were just not pre-assembled or pre-built. I find the "Homebrew" era great because of all the various machines that came out around that time.
Evan invented the Lego DACTA interface card! On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 4:02 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Guys, if you're going to joke about who "invented the computer," then at least think up something witty...
Evan, thanks for a reasonable response. Also, you aren't taking anyone's bait, which is also reasonable. As for the several following responses that claimed some TV spokesperson (or Steve Jobs) invented the personal computer. Your message was received - I will not bore you for awhile, with posts of thoughtful discussion and a considered point of view. Or just too much t-e-x-t, if that's the message. That's why I have a Web site. Herb Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info
*"As for the several following responses that claimed some TV spokesperson (or Steve Jobs) invented the personal computer. Your message was received - I will not bore you for awhile"* Herb, my apologies. That was not my intent. It's called "It's late afternoon and I'm punchy, so I'm making stupid comments." As always, your comments are well thought out and insightful. Dean On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Evan, thanks for a reasonable response. Also, you aren't taking anyone's bait, which is also reasonable.
As for the several following responses that claimed some TV spokesperson (or Steve Jobs) invented the personal computer. Your message was received - I will not bore you for awhile, with posts of thoughtful discussion and a considered point of view. Or just too much t-e-x-t, if that's the message. That's why I have a Web site.
Herb Johnson
-- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info
On Apr 24, 2017, at 4:29 PM, Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
*"As for the several following responses that claimed some TV spokesperson (or Steve Jobs) invented the personal computer. Your message was received - I will not bore you for awhile"*
Herb, my apologies. That was not my intent. It's called "It's late afternoon and I'm punchy, so I'm making stupid comments." As always, your comments are well thought out and insightful.
Dean
Nor was it mine. However, even serious discussions can have some levity, especially amongst like minded people and those with a background in various parts of said discussion. To take offense at such levity shows the comments were misconstrued, so let me reiterate there was no malice or condescension in mine or anyone else's comments (that I read) towards Herb or his points, only pointing out the sometimes ridiculous assertions made about "first" this or "invented" that, which was part of the original topic of the thread. Tony
To take offense at such levity shows the comments were misconstrued
I doubt that Herb and I both "misconstrued" the comments. Instead, I posit that the comments were unclear if everyone meant a greater point to them. Look: you all know I've got a sense of humor. We've seen Herb make some hysterical remarks too through the years (and he was here since our beginning in 2004). I was sad to see a good discussion get thrown off its tracks.
Sent from my iPhone On Apr 24, 2017, at 4:47 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
To take offense at such levity shows the comments were misconstrued
I doubt that Herb and I both "misconstrued" the comments. Instead, I posit that the comments were unclear if everyone meant a greater point to them.
Look: you all know I've got a sense of humor. We've seen Herb make some hysterical remarks too through the years (and he was here since our beginning in 2004).
I was sad to see a good discussion get thrown off its tracks.
Since I was one of those that made a comment, and I clearly stated with my apologies for my comments being taken the wrong way, I can say that my comments were taken the wrong way. It's a common failing of emails and texts without being able to hear the inflections in a voice and see the expression on a face. This is just proof positive I have not perfected my ability to convey those things in the printed word!!! Hence why my great novel remains unwritten!! Please, accept my apologies for helping run this thread off topic, I honestly had no such intention. Tony
On Apr 24, 2017, at 4:56 PM, Tony Bogan via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: Sent from my iPhone On Apr 24, 2017, at 4:47 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
To take offense at such levity shows the comments were misconstrued
I doubt that Herb and I both "misconstrued" the comments. Instead, I posit that the comments were unclear if everyone meant a greater point to them.
Look: you all know I've got a sense of humor. We've seen Herb make some hysterical remarks too through the years (and he was here since our beginning in 2004).
I was sad to see a good discussion get thrown off its tracks.
Since I was one of those that made a comment, and I clearly stated with my apologies for my comments being taken the wrong way, I can say that my comments were taken the wrong way. It's a common failing of emails and texts without being able to hear the inflections in a voice and see the expression on a face. This is just proof positive I have not perfected my ability to convey those things in the printed word!!! Hence why my great novel remains unwritten!! Please, accept my apologies for helping run this thread off topic, I honestly had no such intention. Tony Ditto. Chris
On 04/24/2017 04:47 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
To take offense at such levity shows the comments were misconstrued
I doubt that Herb and I both "misconstrued" the comments. Instead, I posit that the comments were unclear if everyone meant a greater point to them.
Look: you all know I've got a sense of humor. We've seen Herb make some hysterical remarks too through the years (and he was here since our beginning in 2004).
I was sad to see a good discussion get thrown off its tracks.
My intention was a little bit of sarcasm in that name the true inventory has become a continuous discussion. We've all learned about taught standard of the inventory of electricity (I was taught Benjamin Franklin), the car (Henry Ford), radio (Marconi?) & the light bulb/the power system (Edison). Later we learn that it wasn't true or that it wasn't as simple as one person. I just picked a highly unlickly candidate that would obviously be wrong. Sorry about the firestorm that followed. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
participants (10)
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Chris Fala -
Christian Liendo -
Cory Smelosky -
Dean Notarnicola -
Evan Koblentz -
Herb Johnson -
Jameel Akari -
Neil Cherry -
Tony Bogan -
william degnan