What we can learn from vintage computing
Jeff Jonas discussed the IBM 1130 front panel. He noted well-labeled controls and computer operations to the single instruction or cycle or clock. It's good information. But Jeff ends with this:
All that was lost with the microprocessor :-( All the data busses and registers are internal with no pins, thus relying on a monitor to view/alter registers. That's the glory of REAL font panels: they're all HARDWARE, they can't lie :-)
The MITS Altair 8800, the IMSAI 8080, the MITS 680, the Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1; all supported MITS-class front panels. The earliest 1802 computers, same era, had a byte-level, single clock/instruction front panel (and little else). Home-built early 8008 and 8080 systems, often included front panels. Terminals were expensive, memory was limited, and front panels helped debug the hardware. People looking back today, don't appreciate the limited resources (and limited wealth) during 1970's micro computing. MITS people may not have known about the IBM 1130 front panel. But certainly, Ed Roberts knew about the Data General NOVA, which sat in his office, and which has a front panel. (David Greelish interview with Roberts.) The MITS front panel, like the Nova, permitted single-cycle and single-instruction operation of the 8080 microprocessor. It could not display registers, those are internal to the 8080. So, front panels were not "lost with the microprocessor". They simply fell out of favor, by the late 1970's. Briefly: as microcomputers became more powerful and hardware stabilized, software debugging was cheaper and preferable to hardware debugging. Computers designed for the office and home, were styled like office equipment. I lived through the era, it's hard to prove why something stopped happening. On "hardware panels can't lie". They can fail too. And some devices won't run at toggle-clock speeds. Problems may not manifest on a front-panel if they are intermittent. Front panels are a tool, like other tools they have utility or not. Should I say, "all that was lost, when personal computers became commonplace"? Things change, sometimes there's reasons. Regards, Herb Johnson retrotechnology.com -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT comcast DOT net
On 12/22/2022 12:45 PM, Herbert Johnson via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Jeff Jonas discussed the IBM 1130 front panel. He noted well-labeled controls and computer operations to the single instruction or cycle or clock. It's good information. But Jeff ends with this:
All that was lost with the microprocessor :-( All the data busses and registers are internal with no pins, thus relying on a monitor to view/alter registers. That's the glory of REAL font panels: they're all HARDWARE, they can't lie :-)
So, front panels were not "lost with the microprocessor". They simply fell out of favor, by the late 1970's. Briefly: as microcomputers became more powerful and hardware stabilized, software debugging was cheaper and preferable to hardware debugging. Computers designed for the office and home, were styled like office equipment. I lived through the era, it's hard to prove why something stopped happening.
Stating the obvious, but this is true in every new technology. I don't know how many have attempted to drive a Model T vehicle, but the sequence of actions to start and drive that vehicle (even the post 1921 ones with electric start) is strikingly different to even the effort required of a 1960's manual transmission vehicle, much less a 2022 model automobile. In addition to manual spark advancement the strange transmission engagement, all of the manual settings one must consider and alter to actually drive the vehicle are absolutely analogous to the front panel of mainframes and early micros (as you note, Herb). While adding those items to current vehicles might offer benefit in some situations, I think we all agree automating and/or eliminating the need for many of those items served us well. I do find it interesting when "progress" steps back. It's not scientific, but I remember home and auto stereos eschewing the "old" volume knob starting in the '80s, for UI elements that were less useful (up/down buttons). I've not opaid as much attention to devices lately, but I do remember the volume knob making a return appearance in the 2000s or maybe a bit before. It seemed something was lost in the transition, and customers complained. So, within reason, there are times when such UI elements leave and then return. Jim
Hehe, I usually call Herb a curmudgeon (always in jest). Now I've got to call Jeff a curmudgeon (also in jest). Grew up in the 80's, so the microcontroller/microcomputer era. I have use the 6802 & 6809 Applied Micro Systems hardware emulators and love them. I have a Z80B Applied Micro Systems emulator with my Z80 Starter Kit board. Those were much simpler times. Now we have plenty of tools to debug. I think we're doing much better than the front panel. ;-) Heck I can be anywhere in the world with today's modern tools and debug. With the hardware goodies (scope, logic analyzer, network sniffer). I can play back crashes as long I set the triggers correct. And after 44 years of driving a stick, I now have a 2022 car with bells, whistles and gadgets. I kinda hate it. Still getting reverse and drive mixed up and forget the manual shifting with the automatic. Do love the backup camera. Still learning how to backup with the dang thing. OMG, now I'm a curmudgeon! Gimme back my stick and get off my lawn! ;-) BTW, I'm looking for the whole 6800, 6802 or 6809 Applied Systems emulator. Let me know if you come across on. I see the pod on Ebay but nothing else. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry kd2zrq@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies KD2ZRQ
On 12/22/22 17:08, Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Grew up in the 80's, so the microcontroller/microcomputer era. I have use the 6802 & 6809 Applied Micro Systems hardware emulators and love them. I have a Z80B Applied Micro Systems emulator with my Z80 Starter Kit board. Those were much simpler times. Now we have plenty of tools to debug. I think we're doing much better than the front panel. ;-)
We are, but "Heisenbugs" can be very nasty, and front panels don't lie. Whenever we get hard-core (but young) programmers in at LSSM, I always show them how a front panel works, usually on the PDP-11/70. Invariably their reaction is incredulous, saying something akin to "OMG if we only had those on modern machines!" And I have to agree! -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On 12/22/22 18:24, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
We are, but "Heisenbugs" can be very nasty, and front panels don't lie.
Heisenbugs, must remember that! Much better than phase of the moon errors. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry kd2zrq@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies KD2ZRQ
On 12/22/22 19:58, Neil Cherry wrote:
On 12/22/22 18:24, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
We are, but "Heisenbugs" can be very nasty, and front panels don't lie.
Heisenbugs, must remember that! Much better than phase of the moon errors.
Oh, I'm sure you've chased them as many times as I have. Bugs that disappear as soon as you run the code under a debugger, or insert some printf() instrumentation, etc. Infuriating! Debugging on a front panel brings no such nonsense. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On 12/22/22 20:00, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On 12/22/22 19:58, Neil Cherry wrote:
On 12/22/22 18:24, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
We are, but "Heisenbugs" can be very nasty, and front panels don't lie.
Heisenbugs, must remember that! Much better than phase of the moon errors.
Oh, I'm sure you've chased them as many times as I have. Bugs that disappear as soon as you run the code under a debugger, or insert some printf() instrumentation, etc. Infuriating! Debugging on a front panel brings no such nonsense.
Way too many time, still happens in our virtual environments. Skipping any additional details that will take us down way too many roads (Way Off topic). Its the perfect name, can't observe and know it's state at the same time. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry kd2zrq@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies KD2ZRQ
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