Old-school computing: when your lab PC is ancient
What they consider old school is rather new school for us. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01431-y But I know there are people here running some really old active systems.
On 6/2/21 9:07 AM, Christian Liendo via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
What they consider old school is rather new school for us.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01431-y
But I know there are people here running some really old active systems.
New school? We're teaching the classes. ;-) My friends work on the railroad, they've kept systems from the early 1900's running. ;-) Some of those contactors are beginning to wear out. They finally got federal funding that wasn't tied to 'BumFrell' Iowa for safety systems. So some of the systems are being updated. My first job was embedded systems and it was expected that those systems would be in use for 30 or 40 years. Manufacturers (smelting, concrete, etc.) had production systems that had very expensive and specialize control systems that I think keeps a few of us employed finding older systems and parts. My Smart Home stuff that's tied to the cloud scares the hell out of me. If the vendor decides that they're not making money on the cloud service and everything can become bricked (I have a way around it). But just look at Revolv (Google killed it), Wink, Staples Connect, TCP Connect, Karotz, ... all gone bye-bye. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
At my work we're dealing with this... $200,000 medical eye cameras, which have control software that only works in XP or perhaps 7. The camera maker's response is "buy a newer camera, the software comes free". IIRC Jon Chapman's XT-IDE business came out of supporting XT and AT class machines that were used to run production lines. -J On Wed, Jun 2, 2021 at 7:49 AM Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 6/2/21 9:07 AM, Christian Liendo via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
What they consider old school is rather new school for us.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01431-y
But I know there are people here running some really old active systems.
New school? We're teaching the classes. ;-)
My friends work on the railroad, they've kept systems from the early 1900's running. ;-) Some of those contactors are beginning to wear out. They finally got federal funding that wasn't tied to 'BumFrell' Iowa for safety systems. So some of the systems are being updated.
My first job was embedded systems and it was expected that those systems would be in use for 30 or 40 years. Manufacturers (smelting, concrete, etc.) had production systems that had very expensive and specialize control systems that I think keeps a few of us employed finding older systems and parts.
My Smart Home stuff that's tied to the cloud scares the hell out of me. If the vendor decides that they're not making money on the cloud service and everything can become bricked (I have a way around it). But just look at Revolv (Google killed it), Wink, Staples Connect, TCP Connect, Karotz, ... all gone bye-bye.
-- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
-- Jason Perkins 313 355 0085
On 6/2/21 10:48 AM, Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
My Smart Home stuff that's tied to the cloud scares the hell out of me. If the vendor decides that they're not making money on the cloud service and everything can become bricked (I have a way around it). But just look at Revolv (Google killed it), Wink, Staples Connect, TCP Connect, Karotz, ... all gone bye-bye.
No offense intended, but I don't know how any intelligent person would ever buy that sort of stuff in the first place. It's not like people don't know what's going to happen in the end, and that's even ignoring what may happen in the middle. It might pay to see if the stuff you have can be reflashed with Tasmota or similar, and be used with a self-contained system like Domoticz or similar. We are using both here with fantastic results, and China doesn't know when we turn our lights on and off, and some suit in a conference room can't just make my stuff stop working on a whim. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On 6/2/21 10:59 AM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On 6/2/21 10:48 AM, Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
My Smart Home stuff that's tied to the cloud scares the hell out of me. If the vendor decides that they're not making money on the cloud service and everything can become bricked (I have a way around it). But just look at Revolv (Google killed it), Wink, Staples Connect, TCP Connect, Karotz, ... all gone bye-bye.
No offense intended, but I don't know how any intelligent person would
<humor> Too late ... you owe me an apology (Cole Oyl - Popeye - 1980) </humor>
ever buy that sort of stuff in the first place. It's not like people don't know what's going to happen in the end, and that's even ignoring what may happen in the middle.
I did purchase the V2 SmartThings (ST) hub just before Samsung. The hub is great but the recent announcement that ST will brick the V1 hub June 1st (wow, that's blunt) and Amazon's Sidewalk (hey we're going to share your network for our own needs) is speeding up my migration to the Pi & and the needed radios and open source software. I'm hoping to have that all ready for TCF 2021. The rest were WTFrell (Quirky) to dang I had hope (Home Depot/Lowes & Wink). First adopters to be optimistic, not all are realistic. But many are intelligent. I find kickstarters to be gambling and unless it's something I can treat like a prototype I won't jump at it. So far I haven't jumped at any kickstarters. ;-) But back on topic, it is amazing at how quick a service gets shutdown leaving you with expensive equipment or something you've hack back into service. I've had many opportunities to do that in a lab. On the commercial side Cisco did support a lot of legacy protocols (HP Printing, DECNet LAT/LAST, Bi-sync, etc.) until about mid aughts. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
On 6/3/21 11:32 AM, Neil Cherry wrote:
My Smart Home stuff that's tied to the cloud scares the hell out of me. If the vendor decides that they're not making money on the cloud service and everything can become bricked (I have a way around it). But just look at Revolv (Google killed it), Wink, Staples Connect, TCP Connect, Karotz, ... all gone bye-bye.
No offense intended, but I don't know how any intelligent person would
<humor> Too late ... you owe me an apology (Cole Oyl - Popeye - 1980) </humor>
Well...sorry. But man, you had to know that was an awful idea. Sure, the whole world does it, but it's still an awful idea.
ever buy that sort of stuff in the first place. It's not like people don't know what's going to happen in the end, and that's even ignoring what may happen in the middle.
I did purchase the V2 SmartThings (ST) hub just before Samsung. The hub is great but the recent announcement that ST will brick the V1 hub June 1st (wow, that's blunt) and Amazon's Sidewalk (hey we're going to share your network for our own needs)
Yup. Suits. Don't let 'em into your house, man!
But back on topic, it is amazing at how quick a service gets shutdown leaving you with expensive equipment or something you've hack back into service. I've had many opportunities to do that in a lab.
Yeah, and people know that going in, and they STILL buy that stuff. Unbelievable.
On the commercial side Cisco did support a lot of legacy protocols (HP Printing, DECNet LAT/LAST, Bi-sync, etc.) until about mid aughts.
Pretty sure they still support DECnet. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On 6/3/21 8:03 PM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On 6/3/21 11:32 AM, Neil Cherry wrote:
My Smart Home stuff that's tied to the cloud scares the hell out of me. If the vendor decides that they're not making money on the cloud service and everything can become bricked (I have a way around it). But just look at Revolv (Google killed it), Wink, Staples Connect, TCP Connect, Karotz, ... all gone bye-bye.
No offense intended, but I don't know how any intelligent person would
<humor> Too late ... you owe me an apology (Cole Oyl - Popeye - 1980) </humor>
Well...sorry. But man, you had to know that was an awful idea. Sure, the whole world does it, but it's still an awful idea.
Dave, my humor is lost on you (hmm, that might be true of most people ... but I enjoyed it). Yes, it's a bad idea but there are so many bad ideas to choose from. The SmartThings V2 Hub has served it's purpose. It worked for my learning period. I now have the ability to replace the hub with a Pi, ZigBee, Z-Wave, and Bluetooth dongles. I can replace the Groovy code with Javascript (Node-Red). And I can add a lot more than SmartThings. No cloud necessary and I can integrate ancient protocols like X10 in if I choose. I'm pretty sure that most of folks couldn't build this setup (there are a few here that can).
ever buy that sort of stuff in the first place. It's not like people don't know what's going to happen in the end, and that's even ignoring what may happen in the middle.
I did purchase the V2 SmartThings (ST) hub just before Samsung. The hub is great but the recent announcement that ST will brick the V1 hub June 1st (wow, that's blunt) and Amazon's Sidewalk (hey we're going to share your network for our own needs)
Yup. Suits. Don't let 'em into your house, man!
They're already there but by next year SmartThings Suits won't be in my home any longer.
But back on topic, it is amazing at how quick a service gets shutdown leaving you with expensive equipment or something you've hack back into service. I've had many opportunities to do that in a lab.
Yeah, and people know that going in, and they STILL buy that stuff. Unbelievable.
You do know that they'll be shutting down the 4G/5G network someday? Still bought a cell phone? Yes it will be around a lot longer than Wink, Staples Connect or Quirky. But most folks don't know that. And there are enough 'experts' to confuse even the smartest of folks.
On the commercial side Cisco did support a lot of legacy protocols (HP Printing, DECNet LAT/LAST, Bi-sync, etc.) until about mid aughts.
Pretty sure they still support DECnet.
I think you are correct, I thought we were past IOS and onto something else. I'm spending too much time in the SDN. At least they pay well. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
On 6/3/21 11:36 PM, Neil Cherry wrote:
No offense intended, but I don't know how any intelligent person would
<humor> Too late ... you owe me an apology (Cole Oyl - Popeye - 1980) </humor>
Well...sorry. But man, you had to know that was an awful idea. Sure, the whole world does it, but it's still an awful idea.
Dave, my humor is lost on you (hmm, that might be true of most people ... but I enjoyed it). Yes, it's a bad idea but there are so many bad ideas to choose from.
Ahh. Sorry, I was quite humor-impaired yesterday. Today not so much, but still a bit!
The SmartThings V2 Hub has served it's purpose. It worked for my learning period. I now have the ability to replace the hub with a Pi, ZigBee, Z-Wave, and Bluetooth dongles. I can replace the Groovy code with Javascript (Node-Red). And I can add a lot more than SmartThings. No cloud necessary and I can integrate ancient protocols like X10 in if I choose. I'm pretty sure that most of folks couldn't build this setup (there are a few here that can).
Sounds reasonable to me.
and Amazon's Sidewalk (hey we're going to share your network for our own needs)
Yup. Suits. Don't let 'em into your house, man!
They're already there but by next year SmartThings Suits won't be in my home any longer.
Bravo. Give those scumbags the BOOT!
You do know that they'll be shutting down the 4G/5G network someday?
Of course; that spectrum will need to be cleared for something else. That is, if 5G ever goes anywhere! After years and years of hype, it's still the ISDN of the 21st century. But yeah, several thousand potable water monitoring and control systems of my design will drop dead in December of this year, because they're on T-Mobile's 2G network. I hope that company has a migration plan in place.
Still bought a cell phone? Yes it will be around a lot longer than Wink, Staples Connect or Quirky. But most folks don't know that. And there are enough 'experts' to confuse even the smartest of folks.
Too true. I guess I cling to the idealistic notion of people actually LEARNING about a given technology before buying it and trying to use it. But that's just not the world we live in.
On the commercial side Cisco did support a lot of legacy protocols (HP Printing, DECNet LAT/LAST, Bi-sync, etc.) until about mid aughts.
Pretty sure they still support DECnet.
I think you are correct, I thought we were past IOS and onto something else. I'm spending too much time in the SDN. At least they pay well.
Excellent. :-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On Thu, Jun 3, 2021 at 11:34 AM Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I did purchase the V2 SmartThings (ST) hub just before Samsung. The hub is great but the recent announcement that ST will brick the V1 hub June 1st
Hmm... I think I have a ST hub practically NIB given to me some time ago. I should check to see if it's a brick today or will be a brick tomorrow. ;-) -ethan
On 6/4/21 6:41 PM, Ethan Dicks via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On Thu, Jun 3, 2021 at 11:34 AM Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I did purchase the V2 SmartThings (ST) hub just before Samsung. The hub is great but the recent announcement that ST will brick the V1 hub June 1st
Hmm... I think I have a ST hub practically NIB given to me some time ago. I should check to see if it's a brick today or will be a brick tomorrow. ;-)
I'd love to hack the hub, the radios are still good and putting simple software on the hub and the rules engine external would make the hub still usable. But I doubt we'll see the kind of technical info needed to make that heppen. I'll be spending my hacking time on other projects. Though I might get curious. The TCP Connect hub as a MIPS processor, I just didn't have the time to spend ripping into that. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
I appreciate this thread vindicating my weariness towards smart technology. My basic concerns were that I didn’t want my kitchen appliances to be smarter than me jk 😂. Also didn’t want risk of hacking (though I know highly unlikely, it’s the principle). Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Thursday, June 3, 2021, 11:32 AM, Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote: On 6/2/21 10:59 AM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On 6/2/21 10:48 AM, Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
My Smart Home stuff that's tied to the cloud scares the hell out of me. If the vendor decides that they're not making money on the cloud service and everything can become bricked (I have a way around it). But just look at Revolv (Google killed it), Wink, Staples Connect, TCP Connect, Karotz, ... all gone bye-bye.
No offense intended, but I don't know how any intelligent person would
<humor> Too late ... you owe me an apology (Cole Oyl - Popeye - 1980) </humor>
ever buy that sort of stuff in the first place. It's not like people don't know what's going to happen in the end, and that's even ignoring what may happen in the middle.
I did purchase the V2 SmartThings (ST) hub just before Samsung. The hub is great but the recent announcement that ST will brick the V1 hub June 1st (wow, that's blunt) and Amazon's Sidewalk (hey we're going to share your network for our own needs) is speeding up my migration to the Pi & and the needed radios and open source software. I'm hoping to have that all ready for TCF 2021. The rest were WTFrell (Quirky) to dang I had hope (Home Depot/Lowes & Wink). First adopters to be optimistic, not all are realistic. But many are intelligent. I find kickstarters to be gambling and unless it's something I can treat like a prototype I won't jump at it. So far I haven't jumped at any kickstarters. ;-) But back on topic, it is amazing at how quick a service gets shutdown leaving you with expensive equipment or something you've hack back into service. I've had many opportunities to do that in a lab. On the commercial side Cisco did support a lot of legacy protocols (HP Printing, DECNet LAT/LAST, Bi-sync, etc.) until about mid aughts. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
Hello! I agree with the fellow wearing the strange hat. People at my LUG's hack night, where they try to help new people to Linux install it on their systems typically react in a bad way at my work with similar hardware. They just don't want to believe that stuff like that has been around for well over forty years and more. I tell them there are DEC PDP-11s still in service running things that cannot be replaced. And including the odd S100 based system for the same purpose. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again." On Wed, Jun 2, 2021 at 10:49 AM Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 6/2/21 9:07 AM, Christian Liendo via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
What they consider old school is rather new school for us.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01431-y
But I know there are people here running some really old active systems.
New school? We're teaching the classes. ;-)
My friends work on the railroad, they've kept systems from the early 1900's running. ;-) Some of those contactors are beginning to wear out. They finally got federal funding that wasn't tied to 'BumFrell' Iowa for safety systems. So some of the systems are being updated.
My first job was embedded systems and it was expected that those systems would be in use for 30 or 40 years. Manufacturers (smelting, concrete, etc.) had production systems that had very expensive and specialize control systems that I think keeps a few of us employed finding older systems and parts.
My Smart Home stuff that's tied to the cloud scares the hell out of me. If the vendor decides that they're not making money on the cloud service and everything can become bricked (I have a way around it). But just look at Revolv (Google killed it), Wink, Staples Connect, TCP Connect, Karotz, ... all gone bye-bye.
-- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
"I said be careful with that TARDIS! She's an heirloom." said the Doctor.
participants (7)
-
Christian Liendo -
Dave McGuire -
Ethan Dicks -
Gregg Levine -
Jason Perkins -
laurakid -
Neil Cherry