I went to format 5.25 disks from a NOS box still in shrink wrap. There were 11 disks in the box ("pay for 10, get one free"). Every disk resulted in a track error at a different track. If you can't trust never-opened disks to be good, then how do you acquire disks? Is there any good software to repair the errors? ________________________________ Evan Koblentz, director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)(3) educational non-profit evan@vcfed.org (646) 546-9999 www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation instagram.com/vcfederation
Perhaps it is not the disks, but the drive. Have you tried formatting different disks from a different batch and got the same result? Also, I wonder about the density of the disks. Are they the same? I know that with some compatibility issues with some drives not working with single density, double density and high density. On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 12:27 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
I went to format 5.25 disks from a NOS box still in shrink wrap. There were 11 disks in the box ("pay for 10, get one free"). Every disk resulted in a track error at a different track.
If you can't trust never-opened disks to be good, then how do you acquire disks?
Is there any good software to repair the errors?
________________________________ Evan Koblentz, director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)(3) educational non-profit
evan@vcfed.org (646) 546-9999
www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation instagram.com/vcfederation
-- Jeff Brace - ark72axow@gmail.com Sent from my Commodore 64 ========================================================
Agreed that it may be the drive. When I've seen issues across a bunch of disks all of a sudden, usually a quick swab of the head clears the issue up. For some reason this happens more with my Apple II than my Atari, but I think its because more of my Apple II disks are of questionable condition. Which brings me to my next point, it could also be the brand of disk. Buying NOS 3M disks, I've not had a bad one yet. I have some NOS Control Data disks which make nice decorations... Good luck! --Jason On Wed, 19 Apr 2017, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Perhaps it is not the disks, but the drive. Have you tried formatting different disks from a different batch and got the same result? Also, I wonder about the density of the disks. Are they the same? I know that with some compatibility issues with some drives not working with single density, double density and high density.
On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 12:27 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
I went to format 5.25 disks from a NOS box still in shrink wrap. There were 11 disks in the box ("pay for 10, get one free"). Every disk resulted in a track error at a different track.
If you can't trust never-opened disks to be good, then how do you acquire disks?
Is there any good software to repair the errors?
________________________________ Evan Koblentz, director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)(3) educational non-profit
evan@vcfed.org (646) 546-9999
www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation instagram.com/vcfederation
-- Jeff Brace - ark72axow@gmail.com Sent from my Commodore 64 ========================================================
On 4/19/2017 2:28 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Perhaps it is not the disks, but the drive.
Nope, I've formatted lots of other disks (recently) with this drive, and these new disks are specifically made for Apple II, C64, etc. (1S/2D).
When is the last time you cleaned the drive heads? I have to do it fairly often when imaging old disks, once or twice per imaging session (once every 10 disks or so) -- Jonathan Gevaryahu jgevaryahu@gmail.com jgevaryahu@hotmail.com
On 4/19/2017 12:27 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
I went to format 5.25 disks from a NOS box still in shrink wrap. There were 11 disks in the box ("pay for 10, get one free"). Every disk resulted in a track error at a different track.
If you can't trust never-opened disks to be good, then how do you acquire disks?
Is there any good software to repair the errors?
I've been told that even NOS will sometimes fail (especially depending on the initial quality). A few years ago, I bought a box (or rather, a box of boxes) of these: http://www.athana.com/html/diskette.html They haven't failed me as of yet, but I did have to buy a significant amount (I think maybe 10 boxes). I have no recollection as to what I paid for them, though. Best wishes, -Adam
On Apr 19, 2017, at 12:27 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
I went to format 5.25 disks from a NOS box still in shrink wrap. There were 11 disks in the box ("pay for 10, get one free"). Every disk resulted in a track error at a different track.
If you can't trust never-opened disks to be good, then how do you acquire disks?
Is there any good software to repair the errors?
________________________________ Evan Koblentz, director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)(3) educational non-profit
evan@vcfed.org (646) 546-9999
www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation instagram.com/vcfederation
Evan, are you using them on the laser or your platinum IIe? If the IIe is it a disk ][ drive or the 5.25" unidisk? Also what brand are the disks and lastly (been asked already) have you tried to do other disks since this failed batch? The fact that you successfully formatted recently doesn't eliminate the possibility of the head now being dirty enough that it fails more than it works. As Adam mentioned I too have (actually several thousand) NOS Athana disks and have averaged only 1 or 2% failure rate at the most. Rare more than 1 or 2 out of 100 fail to format. I also have a significant number of 3m disks still sealed in packs of 10 and they rarely if ever give errors. Bonus, ultra magnetics, Kodak and a few other brands are notoriously bad even if still shrink wrapped. Maxell I've had better luck with but not as good as 3m/Athana. Verbatim? Like gold if you can find them! Opus are fair to good, this all based in today's world of old floppies in my experience. Regardless, first thing is clean the head, second is try floppies not from that batch. If you're still having issues with any floppies next is check the disk speed. Disk ][s will fall off in speed far more often than 5.25 unidisks in my experience. Out of alignment happens infrequently but it does happen. I've run into and entire box of "new" bad disks but it's rare. To get zero successful formats out of 11 new disks usually means a dirty head/drive issue. Tony
It's on my Platinum with the Unidisk.
Disks are "Bonus" brand.
Had no problem with other disks * after * this whole boxed failed.
Gotcha. As mentioned, Bonus are notoriously bad. Sorry. I can drop off a bunch of Athana or 3M new disks at the museum this weekend if you need some blanks. Tony
Try them in a diff system to confirm they are bad Bill Degnan twitter: billdeg vintagecomputer.net On Apr 19, 2017 6:31 PM, "Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic" < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Gotcha. As mentioned, Bonus are notoriously bad. Sorry.
I can drop off a bunch of Athana or 3M new disks at the museum this weekend if you need some blanks.
Thanks. Not sure when I'll be there next. But there's no hurry; the next workshop would be fine.
Evan, if you are running CP/M there is a program called findbad that locks out bad sectors. Alex B ----- Original Message ----- From: Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> Cc: Evan Koblentz <evan@vcfed.org> Sent: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 00:27:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] Bad disks I went to format 5.25 disks from a NOS box still in shrink wrap. There were 11 disks in the box ("pay for 10, get one free"). Every disk resulted in a track error at a different track. If you can't trust never-opened disks to be good, then how do you acquire disks? Is there any good software to repair the errors? ________________________________ Evan Koblentz, director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)(3) educational non-profit evan@vcfed.org (646) 546-9999 www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation instagram.com/vcfederation
If you can't trust never-opened disks to be good, then how do you acquire disks?
As everyone else has already mentioned, it comes down to brand quality and storage conditions. Some brands, like Wabash, are guaranteed to be garbage out of NOS shrinkwrapped boxes. I've personally had good luck with Verbatim, 3M, Memorex, and BASF. Later Kodak, Wabash, and Tandy/Rat Shack branded stuff tends to be garbage. Often a "Free Disk Inside!" is a good indication it's late production/lower quality.
Is there any good software to repair the errors?
Just throw them away, they're not rare enough to warrant working with flaky media. And, clean the heads afterwards, it's probably crap on the disk surface or oxide shedding.
http://www.athana.com/html/diskette.html
They haven't failed me as of yet, but I did have to buy a significant amount (I think maybe 10 boxes). I have no recollection as to what I paid for them, though.
Athana is good stuff, you pay for the quality but the media has a real warranty on it. I purchased some of their 5.25" hard sectored disks a number of years ago, and have acquired indirectly 8" single-sided media. Very solid. I've still got quite a lot of bulk bag Verbatim 5.25" DSDD media if anyone needs a few guaranteed good disks. I'd been selling them for $7.50/ten. Thanks, Jonathan
participants (9)
-
abodnar＠zoominternet.net -
Adam Michlin -
Evan Koblentz -
Jason Howe -
Jeffrey Brace -
Jonathan Gevaryahu -
Systems Glitch -
Tony Bogan -
william degnan