Javier Rivera is widely considered the master of Retrobrite. Here's a video (not mine) of him demonstrating the method at Kfest last week. DO try this at home. :) Be sure to FOLLOW THE DETAILS EXACTLY. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFGS9xaaO_M ________________________________ Evan Koblentz, director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)(3) educational non-profit evan@vcfed.org (646) 546-9999 www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation instagram.com/vcfederation
Does work, can confirm. When it first started getting talked about, I tried it on some almost-orange IIgs disk drive cases that were already wrecked with school district engraving. Went with 3% peroxide since it's cheap and the lower concentrations/slower process is supposed to make really yellow parts less likely to bloom. Still have the drives, still nice and un-yellowed. Thanks, Jonathan On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Javier Rivera is widely considered the master of Retrobrite.
Here's a video (not mine) of him demonstrating the method at Kfest last week.
DO try this at home. :) Be sure to FOLLOW THE DETAILS EXACTLY.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFGS9xaaO_M
________________________________ Evan Koblentz, director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)(3) educational non-profit
evan@vcfed.org (646) 546-9999
www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation instagram.com/vcfederation
Does work, can confirm. When it first started getting talked about, I tried it on some almost-orange IIgs disk drive cases that were already wrecked with school district engraving. Went with 3% peroxide since it's cheap and the lower concentrations/slower process is supposed to make really yellow parts less likely to bloom.
Still have the drives, still nice and un-yellowed.
I don't have a "before" picture, but here's the after. You can see how light the computer is now vs. the monitor and system saver. http://snarc.net/rb.jpg I was going to have Javier do the keyboard too, but then I acquired a brand-spanking-new keyboard in the Kfest free pile! Happy camper.
I've had lots of success using the Salon Care 40 cream, with nothing else added. Here's a before / after of a 1988 vintage KeyTronic keyboard case I did. It took 2 treatments, at about 45 minutes each. https://photos.app.goo.gl/9CWLx1CFvYAPOw2O2 I applied the cream, covered in plastic wrap, and let it sit in the sun. Every 15 minutes I went out and massaged the plastic. For the keycaps I used the 40 clear liquid, cut it with a little bit of water, added a spritz of Oxy Clean, and put it all in a clear plastic container. I stirred the keycaps every 15 minutes. This took much longer, about 8 hours (the keycaps were PBT not ABS like the case). Both came out great! https://photos.app.goo.gl/2XT3KzG9rr6lIyxS2 (no, the keys are not the same color as the case. The keycaps are "Sea Mist" and the case is "Driftwood" according to the owner's manual) I'm working on editing a video together of how I did the keyboard. My one tip is to go slow. You can always do another treatment. Check frequently. If you think you're anywhere near close stop, wash the item, and let it dry. Give it a good look. Then check if it needs another go. Also wear gloves. The Salon 40 will give you chemical burns! One final tidbit: Be extra careful with brown / tan plastic (like old Apple keycaps). They can "burn" *very* easily. -J On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 10:59 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Does work, can confirm. When it first started getting talked about, I tried
it on some almost-orange IIgs disk drive cases that were already wrecked with school district engraving. Went with 3% peroxide since it's cheap and the lower concentrations/slower process is supposed to make really yellow parts less likely to bloom.
Still have the drives, still nice and un-yellowed.
I don't have a "before" picture, but here's the after. You can see how light the computer is now vs. the monitor and system saver.
I was going to have Javier do the keyboard too, but then I acquired a brand-spanking-new keyboard in the Kfest free pile! Happy camper.
-- Jason Perkins 313 355 0085
I've had lots of success using the Salon Care 40 cream, with nothing else added.
I believe you, but his instructions are specifically NOT to use the cream, but rather the clear version, and not to use plastic wrap because it can cause streaking (he said that in person, not in the video).
The wrap can cause streaking if you're not careful. That's why I go out often and massage the cream, and also re-apply half way through. I'll have to try following his steps, perhaps I'll change my tune! On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 11:38 PM Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
I've had lots of success using the Salon Care 40 cream, with nothing else added.
I believe you, but his instructions are specifically NOT to use the cream, but rather the clear version, and not to use plastic wrap because it can cause streaking (he said that in person, not in the video).
-- Jason Perkins 313 355 0085 Sent from my iPhone
On my Mac-128 I had great success using a giant tub and about 20% peroxide diluted to about 2%. Add some oxy clean and agitate. Left it overnight and no streaks and came out great. Only downside is the cost of peroxide to fill up a tub that can fit the Mac 128k case parts, mouse case and keyboard case. I did remove all the decals and logos beforehand that were not peroxide safe. For the keys, had them sit in 70% ISP for an hour to loosen up the dirt and then clean with an old toothbrush. Finally removed any yellow by immersion in 3% peroxide for an hour. The space bar needed perioxide 40 cream developer till it matched the rest of the keys, Mac space bars are known to go yellow. Cheers, Corey corey cohen uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ On Jul 26, 2017, at 11:35 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
I've had lots of success using the Salon Care 40 cream, with nothing else added.
I believe you, but his instructions are specifically NOT to use the cream, but rather the clear version, and not to use plastic wrap because it can cause streaking (he said that in person, not in the video).
Do you have some before/after pictures? On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 11:08 AM corey cohen via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On my Mac-128 I had great success using a giant tub and about 20% peroxide diluted to about 2%. Add some oxy clean and agitate. Left it overnight and no streaks and came out great.
Only downside is the cost of peroxide to fill up a tub that can fit the Mac 128k case parts, mouse case and keyboard case.
I did remove all the decals and logos beforehand that were not peroxide safe.
For the keys, had them sit in 70% ISP for an hour to loosen up the dirt and then clean with an old toothbrush. Finally removed any yellow by immersion in 3% peroxide for an hour.
The space bar needed perioxide 40 cream developer till it matched the rest of the keys, Mac space bars are known to go yellow.
Cheers, Corey corey cohen uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ
On Jul 26, 2017, at 11:35 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
I've had lots of success using the Salon Care 40 cream, with nothing else added.
I believe you, but his instructions are specifically NOT to use the cream, but rather the clear version, and not to use plastic wrap because it can cause streaking (he said that in person, not in the video).
-- Normal Person: Hey, it seems that you know a lot. Geek: To be honest, it's due to all the surfing I do. Normal Person: So you go surfing? Normal Person: But I don't think that has anything to do with knowing a lot... Geek: I think that's wrong on a fundamental level. Normal Person: Huh? Huh? What?
Maybe. I'll check. I know I have after images. :-) corey cohen uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ
On Jul 27, 2017, at 12:25 PM, Joseph Oprysko <joprysko1@gmail.com> wrote:
Do you have some before/after pictures?
On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 11:08 AM corey cohen via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: On my Mac-128 I had great success using a giant tub and about 20% peroxide diluted to about 2%. Add some oxy clean and agitate. Left it overnight and no streaks and came out great.
Only downside is the cost of peroxide to fill up a tub that can fit the Mac 128k case parts, mouse case and keyboard case.
I did remove all the decals and logos beforehand that were not peroxide safe.
For the keys, had them sit in 70% ISP for an hour to loosen up the dirt and then clean with an old toothbrush. Finally removed any yellow by immersion in 3% peroxide for an hour.
The space bar needed perioxide 40 cream developer till it matched the rest of the keys, Mac space bars are known to go yellow.
Cheers, Corey corey cohen uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ
On Jul 26, 2017, at 11:35 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
I've had lots of success using the Salon Care 40 cream, with nothing else added.
I believe you, but his instructions are specifically NOT to use the cream, but rather the clear version, and not to use plastic wrap because it can cause streaking (he said that in person, not in the video).
-- Normal Person: Hey, it seems that you know a lot. Geek: To be honest, it's due to all the surfing I do. Normal Person: So you go surfing? Normal Person: But I don't think that has anything to do with knowing a lot... Geek: I think that's wrong on a fundamental level. Normal Person: Huh? Huh? What?
Keep in mind how retr0bright actually works: https://www.reddit.com/r/gamecollecting/comments/4pdwhw/my_theory_on_retr0br... tl/dr (at least how I understand it) the yellowing is caused by microfractures in the ABS plastic smaller than the wavelength of light (sort of how a morpho butterfly's wings are blue) and the peroxide oxidizes/eats/disintegrates away the top layer of ABS plastic to expose fresh material below which doesn't have the micro-cracks in it. If this is correct, the yellowing has nothing at all to do with brominated fire retardant, but does have to do with chemicals added to the ABS plastic for UV stability or lack/insufficiency thereof. On 7/27/2017 7:18 PM, corey cohen via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Maybe. I'll check. I know I have after images. :-)
corey cohen uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ
On Jul 27, 2017, at 12:25 PM, Joseph Oprysko <joprysko1@gmail.com> wrote:
Do you have some before/after pictures?
On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 11:08 AM corey cohen via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: On my Mac-128 I had great success using a giant tub and about 20% peroxide diluted to about 2%. Add some oxy clean and agitate. Left it overnight and no streaks and came out great.
Only downside is the cost of peroxide to fill up a tub that can fit the Mac 128k case parts, mouse case and keyboard case.
I did remove all the decals and logos beforehand that were not peroxide safe.
For the keys, had them sit in 70% ISP for an hour to loosen up the dirt and then clean with an old toothbrush. Finally removed any yellow by immersion in 3% peroxide for an hour.
The space bar needed perioxide 40 cream developer till it matched the rest of the keys, Mac space bars are known to go yellow.
Cheers, Corey corey cohen uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ
On Jul 26, 2017, at 11:35 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
I've had lots of success using the Salon Care 40 cream, with nothing else added. I believe you, but his instructions are specifically NOT to use the cream, but rather the clear version, and not to use plastic wrap because it can cause streaking (he said that in person, not in the video). -- Normal Person: Hey, it seems that you know a lot. Geek: To be honest, it's due to all the surfing I do. Normal Person: So you go surfing? Normal Person: But I don't think that has anything to do with knowing a lot... Geek: I think that's wrong on a fundamental level. Normal Person: Huh? Huh? What?
-- Jonathan Gevaryahu jgevaryahu@gmail.com jgevaryahu@hotmail.com
On Jul 26, 2017, at 11:35 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
I've had lots of success using the Salon Care 40 cream, with nothing else added.
I believe you, but his instructions are specifically NOT to use the cream, but rather the clear version, and not to use plastic wrap because it can cause streaking (he said that in person, not in the video).
I’ve also had success with the Salon Care cream (Osborne 1 case, original mac keyboard), but I used UV lamps over about 24 hours. I wonder to what extent thermal heating in the sun and the broader spectrum affects the reaction kinetics. Has anyone ever looked at the profile of yellowing in plastics? How deep is the yellow layer? Also: After buying a gallon of the salon care, I was routinely “randomly selected" for enhanced security screening for a year when returning to the US from overseas (but never outbound). Coincidence? Eric F.
I’ve also had success with the Salon Care cream (Osborne 1 case, original mac keyboard), but I used UV lamps over about 24 hours.
I wonder to what extent thermal heating in the sun and the broader spectrum affects the reaction kinetics.
Has anyone ever looked at the profile of yellowing in plastics? How deep is the yellow layer?
It's generally accepted (at least in Apple II circles) that Javier R. is the RB master and that people should not deviate from his recipe. Seeing his success firsthand, I'm inclined not to question it. :)
Also: After buying a gallon of the salon care, I was routinely “randomly selected" for enhanced security screening for a year when returning to the US from overseas (but never outbound). Coincidence?
Off-topic for this list.
participants (7)
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corey cohen -
eric F -
Evan Koblentz -
Jason Perkins -
Jonathan Gevaryahu -
Joseph Oprysko -
systems_glitch