Noticed there were no mini computers listed in the vcf Exhibits this year?
Last year there were many minicomputers, mostly DEC; previous years had various brands of minis. It would be disappointing to me if no working minicomputers were represented this April. If their owners expected other owners to step up, it apparently hasn't happened yet. For related reasons, I deliberately chose to bring S-100 computers, because apparently they weren't represented LAST year. And for my own interests. So far the other S-100 exhibit is early Cromenco products. I'm working hard to have a Ithaca DPS-1 running; hopefully I'll have two. Running nothing fancy, I'm exhibiting the technology (8" floppy + S-100 + CP/M) and not specific applications or eye/ear attractive products (except I hope a front panel). What do I mean? What does this have to do with minicomputers? S-100 development somewhat parallels minicomputer development; and is similar to a longer period of mainframe development. There were of course dominant brands (IBM and DEC, earlier companies) but other brands had good market share and introduced innovations. Ithaca was a significant S-100 brand, the company contributed to the IEEE-696 standard. There were well over 100 S-100 brands of products, I'll call that out. The sheer size of those minicomputer systems was mentioned. Yes, it's amazing how SMALL minicomputers were, to support computing power comparable to desk and room-sized computers of years and decades prior. Replacing old slow human and mechanical calculators and accounting systems, relay-racks of mechanical control systems in factories, and other applications in business, science and industry. They provided "computing to the people" with wired or dial-up terminals and BASIC; the beginnings of the "personal" computing revolution. And in time, minicomputers and later microcomputers overwhelmed much of the "mainframe" market of use, some becoming like mainframe systems (higher-end DEC product line). And yet, even in 2015, much computing use (beyond networking, no small thing) is about one operating system running one (sometimes a few) processors, with auxiliary processors operating specific devices. Not much change from S-100 and microcomputers, or minicomputers, or mainframes with printer and drive and I/O controllers decades ago. And now? This is largely forgotten history today, in part because computing is like water to fish now, it pervades modern culture and business and science. Few examine critically the history of, say, fresh water - until they lose access to it. Then history matters, or catches up to you. Smart phones have been fee-based and service based - like minicomputer service contracts were. Bill Degnan pointed out, mobile-supporting services are as human-factors limited, as Windows 3.11/WFW was limited by display, bandwidth and processor. Looking backwards can sometimes inform you. Herb -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net
On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 1:40 PM, Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Noticed there were no mini computers listed in the vcf Exhibits this year?
Last year there were many minicomputers, mostly DEC; previous years had various brands of minis. It would be disappointing to me if no working minicomputers were represented this April. If their owners expected other owners to step up, it apparently hasn't happened yet.
<snip>
....And none a VCF South East either. I may just change my exhibit to bring my personal favorite VAX 4000-200, or find a way to incorporate it into my exhibit somehow. I wassort of kind of planning on connecting to my 4000-200 remotely from the exhibit hall with one of the machines I bring. I could I suppose change my whole exhibit and take my 11/40 but I was not planning on it and it's not easy to move. We have not actually heard from a few people who could bring minis, so I guess we'll see. -- @ BillDeg: Web: vintagecomputer.net Twitter: @billdeg <https://twitter.com/billdeg> Youtube: @billdeg <https://www.youtube.com/user/billdeg> Unauthorized Bio <http://www.vintagecomputer.net/readme.cfm>
I may just change my exhibit to bring my personal favorite VAX 4000-200, or find a way to incorporate it into my exhibit somehow.
VAXen are always welcome.
We have not actually heard from a few people who could bring minis, so I guess we'll see.
Ian said he'll get back to me tonight. Dave M. said he is undecided due to work commitments.
On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 3:16 PM, william degnan via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
....And none a VCF South East either.
There'll be a couple of Omnibus PDP-8s there powered up (from me), as well as a static PDP-15 and PDP-8/I. I may be persuaded to bring up my minis...but it's a long trek from Alabama! Kyle
On Mar 10, 2016, at 10:40 AM, Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Noticed there were no mini computers listed in the vcf Exhibits this year?
Last year there were many minicomputers, mostly DEC; previous years had various brands of minis. It would be disappointing to me if no working minicomputers were represented this April. If their owners expected other owners to step up, it apparently hasn't happened yet.
For related reasons, I deliberately chose to bring S-100 computers, because apparently they weren't represented LAST year. And for my own interests. So far the other S-100 exhibit is early Cromenco products. I'm working hard to have a Ithaca DPS-1 running; hopefully I'll have two.
Running nothing fancy, I'm exhibiting the technology (8" floppy + S-100 + CP/M) and not specific applications or eye/ear attractive products (except I hope a front panel). What do I mean? What does this have to do with minicomputers?
S-100 development somewhat parallels minicomputer development; and is similar to a longer period of mainframe development. There were of course dominant brands (IBM and DEC, earlier companies) but other brands had good market share and introduced innovations. Ithaca was a significant S-100 brand, the company contributed to the IEEE-696 standard. There were well over 100 S-100 brands of products, I'll call that out.
The sheer size of those minicomputer systems was mentioned. Yes, it's amazing how SMALL minicomputers were, to support computing power comparable to desk and room-sized computers of years and decades prior. Replacing old slow human and mechanical calculators and accounting systems, relay-racks of mechanical control systems in factories, and other applications in business, science and industry. They provided "computing to the people" with wired or dial-up terminals and BASIC; the beginnings of the "personal" computing revolution.
And in time, minicomputers and later microcomputers overwhelmed much of the "mainframe" market of use, some becoming like mainframe systems (higher-end DEC product line).
And yet, even in 2015, much computing use (beyond networking, no small thing) is about one operating system running one (sometimes a few) processors, with auxiliary processors operating specific devices. Not much change from S-100 and microcomputers, or minicomputers, or mainframes with printer and drive and I/O controllers decades ago.
And now?
This is largely forgotten history today, in part because computing is like water to fish now, it pervades modern culture and business and science. Few examine critically the history of, say, fresh water - until they lose access to it. Then history matters, or catches up to you.
Smart phones have been fee-based and service based - like minicomputer service contracts were. Bill Degnan pointed out, mobile-supporting services are as human-factors limited, as Windows 3.11/WFW was limited by display, bandwidth and processor. Looking backwards can sometimes inform you.
Herb -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net
As I recall I had my S100 Sol-20 Helios system last year representing S100 systems. Can't get more S100 than a Sol. Cheers, Corey
On 3/10/2016 1:40 PM, Herb Johnson wrote:
For related reasons, I deliberately chose to bring S-100 computers, because apparently they weren't represented LAST year.
As I recall I had my S100 Sol-20 Helios system last year representing S100 systems. Can't get more S100 than a Sol.
Cheers, Corey
My apologies. My notes from VCF-East 10 say you exhibited as "Moore's law: 4004 through 8080". Thanks for your exhibit and the Sol among many early Intel-based microcomputers. I did something similar the year prior, for Intel and for COSMAC 1802's. http://www.retrotechnology.com/vcfe91/herb_vcf_apr14.html Also at VCF-E 10, S-100 boards and systems were sold in the vendor's area, where I was active last year. It was hard for me to spend lots of time in the very busy exhibit areas. But my point isn't changed, one S-100 as part of several systems in one exhibit, among 35 exhibits with likely twice that many computers overall. -------------------- Slightly related, is a thread "ISA Sound Card is going for $1500". An in-the-box ISA sound card, apparently the last model of an early sound-card brand that went bankrupt, is being bid up. (shrug) there's always some class of collectors chasing rare and BNIB products. The relevance to this discussion is the comment by Christian Liendo:
What I am trying to say is that the younger generation of people who are coming into the hobby.
The ones who grew up on PCs and not Ataris, Commodores and Early Apples. They are going to want to be represented. They are going to want to show off their machines. I think it's time to welcome them.
I certainly agree that vintage computing can be considered as generational. Simply put, I'm of the S-100 generation, which by contrast is "coming out of" the hobby - from, well, you-know. I said I have many reasons to exhibit S-100. And relevant to the subject of minicomputers: many minicomputer owners by necessity were born AFTER their minicomputers were manufactured. Minicomputers are interesting on their various merits, plus rarity; not necessarily because their current owners used them early on. But few people of the era (say before the mid-1970's) actually OWNED a minicomputer or mainframe, they were institutional purchases. A different world....and so it's valuable to celebrate and preserve these minicomputers and mainframes. Rarity and history can make for value and interest, but volume and familiarity also generate interest from more people. It's like any other hobby or historical activity. Herb Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preservation of 1970's computing email: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com alternate: herbjohnson ATT retrotechnology DOTT info
Bill Deg. changed his Commodore exhibit to a MicroVAX 3100 and VAX 4000-200. Kyle is bringing a PDP-8/M. Still waiting to hear from Ian and a couple of the HECnet people.
participants (5)
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Corey Cohen -
Evan Koblentz -
Herb Johnson -
Kyle Owen -
william degnan