I know double sided and singe sided 8" disks have the index hole in different places. I can't tell from the manual (I'm too lazy) but does the SA800-2 have both circuits? ________________________________ From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces@lists.vcfed.org> on behalf of Jonathan Chapman via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2022 7:58 AM To: mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us <mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us>; vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Cc: Jonathan Chapman <lists@glitchwrks.com> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Shugart SA800-2 drives That's usually a sign you're getting no index pulse, in my experience. Thanks, Jonathan ------- Original Message ------- On Tuesday, March 22nd, 2022 at 02:10, Mike Loewen via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:

I have a pair of Shugart SA800-2 8" drives, which are mounted in a

Micromation enclosure. Both drives have the factory jumper configuration,

except for the B: drive which has the termination jumpers (T3, T4, T5 and T6)

removed and DS2 installed.

I've connected them to my media system via an older FDADAP board. Using the

IMD program, I try and read a single-sided disk that has valid data. The drive

selects and the head-load solenoid activates. After several seconds, IMD

displays a "No interrupt from FDC" error. The same thing happens with both

drives. The Alignment function doesn't recognize anything from the disk.

I've successfully used this system with Tandon TM848-2 drives, and a

Siemens 120-8. Before I start chasing signals, are there any obvious pitfalls

to using a SA800-2 with a (relatively) modern PC?

Should the DC (Disk Change) jumper be installed? By default, it is not. I

noticed that on the Tandon drive, DC is installed.

I have the operating and maintenance manuals for the SA800/801 drives.

Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us

Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

Isn’t the 850 the double-sides drive? http://cini.classiccmp.org/ Long Island S100 User’s Group Get Outlook<https://aka.ms/qtex0l> for iOS ________________________________ From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces@lists.vcfed.org> on behalf of Kelly Leavitt via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2022 9:00:06 AM To: mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us <mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us>; vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org>; Jonathan Chapman <lists@glitchwrks.com> Cc: Kelly Leavitt <kelly@catcorner.org> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Shugart SA800-2 drives I know double sided and singe sided 8" disks have the index hole in different places. I can't tell from the manual (I'm too lazy) but does the SA800-2 have both circuits? ________________________________ From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces@lists.vcfed.org> on behalf of Jonathan Chapman via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2022 7:58 AM To: mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us <mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us>; vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Cc: Jonathan Chapman <lists@glitchwrks.com> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Shugart SA800-2 drives That's usually a sign you're getting no index pulse, in my experience. Thanks, Jonathan ------- Original Message ------- On Tuesday, March 22nd, 2022 at 02:10, Mike Loewen via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:

I have a pair of Shugart SA800-2 8" drives, which are mounted in a

Micromation enclosure. Both drives have the factory jumper configuration,

except for the B: drive which has the termination jumpers (T3, T4, T5 and T6)

removed and DS2 installed.

I've connected them to my media system via an older FDADAP board. Using the

IMD program, I try and read a single-sided disk that has valid data. The drive

selects and the head-load solenoid activates. After several seconds, IMD

displays a "No interrupt from FDC" error. The same thing happens with both

drives. The Alignment function doesn't recognize anything from the disk.

I've successfully used this system with Tandon TM848-2 drives, and a

Siemens 120-8. Before I start chasing signals, are there any obvious pitfalls

to using a SA800-2 with a (relatively) modern PC?

Should the DC (Disk Change) jumper be installed? By default, it is not. I

noticed that on the Tandon drive, DC is installed.

I have the operating and maintenance manuals for the SA800/801 drives.

Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us

Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

Would you believe dirty phototransistors?

That'd do it! I've had them fail, especially in Siemens 8" drives. I've also had them be too far out of alignment to be reliable. Joys of old machines, right? :P Thanks, Jonathan

Both drives are now formatting, reading and writing! The next step is to connect them to my Sol 20 with a Micromation Doubler FDC. The two wood-sided units were made for each other. :-)

http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/S100/drives.html

Nice, those will go perfect together! I still need to refoam the keyboard in my SOL-20...I've got replacement NOS foams from Jason, just haven't had the time. Too many other projects! This week has been CP/M 2.2 on VersaFloppy II customizations. Thanks, Jonathan

Thanks Glenn, I'll check it out. On Sat, 26 Mar 2022, Glenn Roberts wrote:

Mike: don't know if you know about Old English scratch cover & polish https://www.amazon.com/Old-English-Scratch-Cover-Polish/dp/B0063KFJHK

will make those wooden side panels look like new...

- Glenn

-----Original Message----- From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces@lists.vcfed.org> On Behalf Of Jonathan Chapman via vcf-midatlantic Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2022 9:03 AM To: mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us; vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Cc: Jonathan Chapman <lists@glitchwrks.com> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Shugart SA800-2 drives

...

Both drives are now formatting, reading and writing! The next step is to connect them to my Sol 20 with a Micromation Doubler FDC. The two wood-sided units were made for each other. :-)

http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/S100/drives.html

Nice, those will go perfect together! I still need to refoam the keyboard in my SOL-20...I've got replacement NOS foams from Jason, just haven't had the time. Too many other projects! This week has been CP/M 2.2 on VersaFloppy II customizations.

Thanks, Jonathan

Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

On Sat, 26 Mar 2022, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic wrote:

On 3/26/22 09:02, Jonathan Chapman via vcf-midatlantic wrote:

...

...

Both drives are now formatting, reading and writing! The next step is to connect them to my Sol 20 with a Micromation Doubler FDC. The two wood-sided units were made for each other. :-)

http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/S100/drives.html

Nice, those will go perfect together! I still need to refoam the keyboard in my SOL-20...I've got replacement NOS foams from Jason, just haven't had the time.

Jason who? I've two SOL-20s to re-foam.

Just a note: I normally order replacement pads from TexElec, but they didn't work in my Sol 20. I ended up sacrificing a Sun Type 4 keyboard for pads. Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

On Sat, 26 Mar 2022, Jonathan Chapman wrote:

...

Just a note: I normally order replacement pads from TexElec, but they didn't work in my Sol 20.

I've heard that about TexElec stuff too, in other Keytronic keyboards, including the Lisa which I believe was their actual target.

The TexElec pads worked just fine in a TRS-80 Model 6000 keyboard and a Northstar Advantage. Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

I think that creating a replacement Sun type 3/type 4 keyboard and mouse would be worthwhile. Shouldn't be too hard, with all the rp2040 keyboard software floating around. Personally, I'd like a modern laser mouse for my Suns. The pad ones work great, but I don't have all that many pads. The ball ones are ... ball mice. - Alex On Mon, Mar 28, 2022 at 11:58 AM Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:

On 3/26/22 13:18, Mike Loewen via vcf-midatlantic wrote:

...

Just a note: I normally order replacement pads from TexElec, but they didn't work in my Sol 20. I ended up sacrificing a Sun Type 4 keyboard for pads.

Those keyboards are getting really hard to find. :-(

-Dave

-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

That's the issue though. IMO, foam and foil keyboards may feel good, but they're always just about to fail. They even sometimes failed when new. Not a great tech for longevity, IMO. I much prefer traditional mechanical keyswitches. - Alex On Mon, Mar 28, 2022 at 12:05 PM Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:

On 3/28/22 12:01, Alexander Jacocks wrote:

...

I think that creating a replacement Sun type 3/type 4 keyboard and mouse would be worthwhile. Shouldn't be too hard, with all the rp2040 keyboard software floating around.

True, but a Type 4 is an amazingly good keyboard in its own right. The idea isn't "something to connect to a Sun" but having a real Type 4 keyboard.

We have about 25 of them at LSSM. All but one have failed, and are in the "will fix these if we ever get any damn help around here" status.

The Type 3 is a very good keyboard too, IMO. I worked on one every day for many years and loved it.

...

Personally, I'd like a modern laser mouse for my Suns. The pad ones work great, but I don't have all that many pads. The ball ones are ... ball mice.

I have a Postscript file that, when printed on a decent laser printer, makes a mouse pad that actually works with Sun optical mice.

I think it shouldn't be too hard to make actual metal mouse pads for them.

Those were some of the best mice I've ever used.

-Dave

-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

On Sat, 26 Mar 2022, Mike Loewen via vcf-midatlantic wrote:

On Wed, 23 Mar 2022, Jonathan Chapman wrote:

...

...

Would you believe dirty phototransistors?

That'd do it! I've had them fail, especially in Siemens 8" drives. I've also had them be too far out of alignment to be reliable. Joys of old machines, right? :P

Both drives are now formatting, reading and writing! The next step is to connect them to my Sol 20 with a Micromation Doubler FDC. The two wood-sided units were made for each other. :-)

http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/S100/drives.html

And finally, the drives are connected to the Sol with the Micromation Doubler installed, running a 48K CP/M 2.2! http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/S100/Sol20/SolCPM-2.jpg The system will be part of my VCF East exhibit. Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

On Mon, Mar 28, 2022 at 12:24:22AM -0400, Mike Loewen via vcf-midatlantic wrote:

And finally, the drives are connected to the Sol with the Micromation Doubler installed, running a 48K CP/M 2.2!

http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/S100/Sol20/SolCPM-2.jpg

The system will be part of my VCF East exhibit.

Nice. Looks like they belong together. The blue even looks like it matches.

On 3/28/22 00:24, Mike Loewen via vcf-midatlantic wrote:

...

  Both drives are now formatting, reading and writing! The next step is to connect them to my Sol 20 with a Micromation Doubler FDC. The two wood-sided units were made for each other.  :-)

http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/S100/drives.html

   And finally, the drives are connected to the Sol with the Micromation Doubler installed, running a 48K CP/M 2.2!

http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/S100/Sol20/SolCPM-2.jpg

   The system will be part of my VCF East exhibit.

Fantastic work!! -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA