The Transistor......Re: Evan @ IFIP
On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 9:45 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
They took us on a private tour of the old Bell Labs (now it's Nokia, which bought Alcatel-Lucent) in Murray Hill NJ today. We spent a couple of hours there. Photos were not allowed. Among many highlights, we saw the room where they perfected (not "invented") the transistor
I bet you didn't say that _while_ you were visiting there :) And I would hardly call it perfected. As most academics often overlook the technical aspects. Where the 1925 FET is a voltage operated device whereas the Bell Labs Transistor is a current operated device. Two completely different animals Also, you how many of the innovations occurred in the past A lot of it was based on popularity, just look at Edison/Telsa And the 1925 FET was hardly on anyone's "radar" otherwise why did they spend the next 30yrs with vacuum tube computers iso of researching and developing that new innovation further. But it also had mostly to do with making the planar process practical enough to mass produce. Dan
On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 8:38 AM, Dan Roganti via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 9:45 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
They took us on a private tour of the old Bell Labs (now it's Nokia, which bought Alcatel-Lucent) in Murray Hill NJ today. We spent a couple of hours there. Photos were not allowed. Among many highlights, we saw the room where they perfected (not "invented") the transistor
I bet you didn't say that _while_ you were visiting there :) And I would hardly call it perfected. As most academics often overlook the technical aspects. Where the 1925 FET is a voltage operated device whereas the Bell Labs Transistor is a current operated device. Two completely different animals Also, you how many of the innovations occurred in the past A lot of it was based on popularity, just look at Edison/Telsa And the 1925 FET was hardly on anyone's "radar" otherwise why did they spend the next 30yrs with vacuum tube computers iso of researching and developing that new innovation further. But it also had mostly to do with making the planar process practical enough to mass produce. Dan
Since we are "arguing" :-) the importance of "firsts", how much credit should Robert Noyce get for the "invention" of the IC vs. work done at TI? (Most of my knowledge is based on a PBS documentary, so don't judge me too harshly.) And Dan, thanks for enlightening me, I never heard that the FET was invented that long ago. Glad I am here for a good education!
On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 9:32 AM, Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 8:38 AM, Dan Roganti via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 9:45 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
They took us on a private tour of the old Bell Labs (now it's Nokia, which bought Alcatel-Lucent) in Murray Hill NJ today. We spent a couple of hours there. Photos were not allowed. Among many highlights, we saw the room where they perfected (not "invented") the transistor
I bet you didn't say that _while_ you were visiting there :) And I would hardly call it perfected. As most academics often overlook the technical aspects. Where the 1925 FET is a voltage operated device whereas the Bell Labs Transistor is a current operated device. Two completely different animals Also, you how many of the innovations occurred in the past A lot of it was based on popularity, just look at Edison/Telsa And the 1925 FET was hardly on anyone's "radar" otherwise why did they spend the next 30yrs with vacuum tube computers iso of researching and developing that new innovation further. But it also had mostly to do with making the planar process practical enough to mass produce. Dan
Since we are "arguing" :-) the importance of "firsts", how much credit should Robert Noyce get for the "invention" of the IC vs. work done at TI? (Most of my knowledge is based on a PBS documentary, so don't judge me too harshly.)
And Dan, thanks for enlightening me, I never heard that the FET was invented that long ago. Glad I am here for a good education!
I think one analogy relevant to modern times would be the electric car 20yrs ago, Consumer electric cars were built, Not counting the one from 100+yrs ago - that's even a more dire analogy They were not as effective yet as today's version of course Yet, they disappeared without any further R&D work Effectively canceling 20yrs of technology That doesn't happen without some external influence Just look at the production of vacuum tubes. The tube elements relied on metals which was a boon to the mining industry Less R&D required as opposed to the 1925 FET So companies opt for the cheap alternative Imagine if we had semiconductor computers prior to WWII Dan
On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 10:00 AM, Dan Roganti <ragooman@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 9:32 AM, Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
And Dan, thanks for enlightening me, I never heard that the FET was invented that long ago. Glad I am here for a good education!
I think one analogy relevant to modern times would be the electric car 20yrs ago, Consumer electric cars were built, Not counting the one from 100+yrs ago - that's even a more dire analogy They were not as effective yet as today's version of course Yet, they disappeared without any further R&D work Effectively canceling 20yrs of technology
I guess to give it an analogy which relates to this group 20yrs would be about the same as wiping out the microprocessor technology of 70s and 80s combined So maybe we would still be using TTL based CPU's by 1990
That doesn't happen without some external influence Just look at the production of vacuum tubes. The tube elements relied on metals which was a boon to the mining industry Less R&D required as opposed to the 1925 FET So companies opt for the cheap alternative Imagine if we had semiconductor computers prior to WWII Dan
I bet you didn't say that _while_ you were visiting there :)
We had a whole long discussion about avoiding bad words like "first" and "invented". Remember this was a group of (mostly) professional historians. The archivist at Bell Labs agreed with us. Today we get another tour -- the Google office in Manhattan -- and then there's a roundtable discussion nearby at NYU. That is where I'm on the panel. Then some other lectures and a nice dinner at the NYU Club.
On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 10:43 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
I bet you didn't say that _while_ you were visiting there :)
We had a whole long discussion about avoiding bad words like "first" and "invented". Remember this was a group of (mostly) professional historians. The archivist at Bell Labs agreed with us.
Today we get another tour -- the Google office in Manhattan --
oooo nice, my niece did the interior design on one floor in there, not sure which, but she gets to do more there soon.
participants (3)
-
Chris Fala -
Dan Roganti -
Evan Koblentz