Fiche documentation for all of VM/ESA
Hello! One of the people on the regular Z/VM list many years ago had a copy of the Fiche behind VM/ESA (I do not know what version), this is the entire source code reduced to Fiche. Would the actual VCF offices in NJ want these? Failing that does anyone on the list want these? Please note that the box is a heavy one. Oh and the wandering dino is currently asleep inside the (new) warehouse area. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On 10/18/23 17:24, Gregg Levine via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Hello! One of the people on the regular Z/VM list many years ago had a copy of the Fiche behind VM/ESA (I do not know what version), this is the entire source code reduced to Fiche. Would the actual VCF offices in NJ want these? Failing that does anyone on the list want these? Please note that the box is a heavy one.
We'll take that over at LSSM if not. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
Hello! Great! If no one else responds then you're up. Now there's a box wandering around with my name on it. We can do a container swap. However..... The big problem is that the smilodon where you are, hasn't moved on the NJ it seems he likes it where you are. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again." On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 5:30 PM Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 10/18/23 17:24, Gregg Levine via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Hello! One of the people on the regular Z/VM list many years ago had a copy of the Fiche behind VM/ESA (I do not know what version), this is the entire source code reduced to Fiche. Would the actual VCF offices in NJ want these? Failing that does anyone on the list want these? Please note that the box is a heavy one.
We'll take that over at LSSM if not.
-Dave
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
Gregg, I assume that you need someone to help transport the heavy box to VCF's warehouse where it can be held until such time as another someone can transport it to Dave. Jeff On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 5:35 PM Gregg Levine via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Hello! Great! If no one else responds then you're up. Now there's a box wandering around with my name on it. We can do a container swap.
However..... The big problem is that the smilodon where you are, hasn't moved on the NJ it seems he likes it where you are. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 5:30 PM Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 10/18/23 17:24, Gregg Levine via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Hello! One of the people on the regular Z/VM list many years ago had a copy of the Fiche behind VM/ESA (I do not know what version), this is the entire source code reduced to Fiche. Would the actual VCF offices in NJ want these? Failing that does anyone on the list want these? Please note that the box is a heavy one.
We'll take that over at LSSM if not.
-Dave
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
Bill Inderreiden will be here next week.. -Dave On 10/18/23 18:18, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Gregg,
I assume that you need someone to help transport the heavy box to VCF's warehouse where it can be held until such time as another someone can transport it to Dave.
Jeff
On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 5:35 PM Gregg Levine via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Hello! Great! If no one else responds then you're up. Now there's a box wandering around with my name on it. We can do a container swap.
However..... The big problem is that the smilodon where you are, hasn't moved on the NJ it seems he likes it where you are. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 5:30 PM Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 10/18/23 17:24, Gregg Levine via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Hello! One of the people on the regular Z/VM list many years ago had a copy of the Fiche behind VM/ESA (I do not know what version), this is the entire source code reduced to Fiche. Would the actual VCF offices in NJ want these? Failing that does anyone on the list want these? Please note that the box is a heavy one.
We'll take that over at LSSM if not.
-Dave
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
Hello! Excellent. I'll print a label and stick on the box over my address that mentions your name and the fellow you've cited. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again." On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 6:23 PM Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Bill Inderreiden will be here next week..
-Dave
On 10/18/23 18:18, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Gregg,
I assume that you need someone to help transport the heavy box to VCF's warehouse where it can be held until such time as another someone can transport it to Dave.
Jeff
On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 5:35 PM Gregg Levine via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Hello! Great! If no one else responds then you're up. Now there's a box wandering around with my name on it. We can do a container swap.
However..... The big problem is that the smilodon where you are, hasn't moved on the NJ it seems he likes it where you are. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 5:30 PM Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 10/18/23 17:24, Gregg Levine via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Hello! One of the people on the regular Z/VM list many years ago had a copy of the Fiche behind VM/ESA (I do not know what version), this is the entire source code reduced to Fiche. Would the actual VCF offices in NJ want these? Failing that does anyone on the list want these? Please note that the box is a heavy one.
We'll take that over at LSSM if not.
-Dave
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
Hello! Not really. Based on Dave's fast response, I expected he'd have someone back there at Infoage next weekend after our meet, anyway. This box is heavy, yes, but not very heavy. I planned on bringing to the meet with a label on it that directs the individual seeing that it is being held for Dave McGuire via the chap he mentioned. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again." On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 6:19 PM Jeffrey Brace <jeffrey@vcfed.org> wrote:
Gregg,
I assume that you need someone to help transport the heavy box to VCF's warehouse where it can be held until such time as another someone can transport it to Dave.
Jeff
On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 5:35 PM Gregg Levine via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Hello! Great! If no one else responds then you're up. Now there's a box wandering around with my name on it. We can do a container swap.
However..... The big problem is that the smilodon where you are, hasn't moved on the NJ it seems he likes it where you are. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 5:30 PM Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 10/18/23 17:24, Gregg Levine via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Hello! One of the people on the regular Z/VM list many years ago had a copy of the Fiche behind VM/ESA (I do not know what version), this is the entire source code reduced to Fiche. Would the actual VCF offices in NJ want these? Failing that does anyone on the list want these? Please note that the box is a heavy one.
We'll take that over at LSSM if not.
-Dave
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
As the team lead for the IBM CIO's z/VM squad, and the curator of the Classical Computing Laboratory at IBM Poughkeepsie, I most certainly would want it if nobody else takes it. Regards, Dan FitzGerald They/Them/Theirs http://www.vm.ibm.com/devpages/dfitzger -----Original Message----- From: Gregg Levine via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Reply-To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> To: vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org Cc: Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8@gmail.com> Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] Fiche documentation for all of VM/ESA Date: 10/18/2023 05:24:02 PM Hello! One of the people on the regular Z/VM list many years ago had a copy of the Fiche behind VM/ESA (I do not know what version), this is the entire source code reduced to Fiche. Would the actual VCF offices in NJ want these? Failing that does anyone on the list want these? Please note that the box is a heavy one. Oh and the wandering dino is currently asleep inside the (new) warehouse area. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
Lets see what the steering committee thinks... forwarding. Thanks DC On 10/23/2023 1:01 PM, Dan FitzGerald via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
As the team lead for the IBM CIO's z/VM squad, and the curator of the Classical Computing Laboratory at IBM Poughkeepsie, I most certainly would want it if nobody else takes it.
Regards, Dan FitzGerald They/Them/Theirs http://www.vm.ibm.com/devpages/dfitzger
-----Original Message----- From: Gregg Levine via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Reply-To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> To: vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org Cc: Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8@gmail.com> Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] Fiche documentation for all of VM/ESA Date: 10/18/2023 05:24:02 PM
Hello! One of the people on the regular Z/VM list many years ago had a copy of the Fiche behind VM/ESA (I do not know what version), this is the entire source code reduced to Fiche. Would the actual VCF offices in NJ want these? Failing that does anyone on the list want these? Please note that the box is a heavy one.
Oh and the wandering dino is currently asleep inside the (new) warehouse area. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
Scan it, make it public! On Wed, 25 Oct 2023, Douglas Crawford via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Lets see what the steering committee thinks... forwarding. Thanks DC
On 10/23/2023 1:01 PM, Dan FitzGerald via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
As the team lead for the IBM CIO's z/VM squad, and the curator of the Classical Computing Laboratory at IBM Poughkeepsie, I most certainly would want it if nobody else takes it.
Regards, Dan FitzGerald They/Them/Theirs http://www.vm.ibm.com/devpages/dfitzger
-----Original Message----- From: Gregg Levine via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Reply-To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> To: vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org Cc: Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8@gmail.com> Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] Fiche documentation for all of VM/ESA Date: 10/18/2023 05:24:02 PM
Hello! One of the people on the regular Z/VM list many years ago had a copy of the Fiche behind VM/ESA (I do not know what version), this is the entire source code reduced to Fiche. Would the actual VCF offices in NJ want these? Failing that does anyone on the list want these? Please note that the box is a heavy one.
Oh and the wandering dino is currently asleep inside the (new) warehouse area. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
Believe it or not, if you are looking for a document you can reach out to the IBM Archives and ask them if they have a scan available to send you! If they have the document you're looking for and it was originally available to the public, they generally shouldn't have a problem providing it for you. For example: when I was trying to find information about the IBM Enhanced Memory Expansion Adapter for the PC/AT, I found almost nothing about the card online. I reached out to the IBM Archives, and they gave me high-quality scans of the card's "Guide to Operations", "Technical Reference", glossy spec sheet, and even the notes and foils for an IBM sales presentation on the card! All of which are now out on minuszerodegrees.net. You can contact them at archive1@us.ibm.com; terms and conditions are available here: https://www.ibm.com/ibm/history/request2/terms.html Regards, Dan FitzGerald They/Them/Theirs http://www.vm.ibm.com/devpages/dfitzger -----Original Message----- From: Ethan O'Toole via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Reply-To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> To: Douglas Crawford via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Cc: Ethan O'Toole <telmnstr@757.org> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Fiche documentation for all of VM/ESA Date: 10/25/2023 10:49:26 AM Scan it, make it public! On Wed, 25 Oct 2023, Douglas Crawford via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Lets see what the steering committee thinks... forwarding. Thanks DC
On 10/23/2023 1:01 PM, Dan FitzGerald via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
As the team lead for the IBM CIO's z/VM squad, and the curator of the Classical Computing Laboratory at IBM Poughkeepsie, I most certainly would want it if nobody else takes it.
Regards, Dan FitzGerald They/Them/Theirs http://www.vm.ibm.com/devpages/dfitzger
-----Original Message----- From: Gregg Levine via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Reply-To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> To: vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org Cc: Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8@gmail.com> Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] Fiche documentation for all of VM/ESA Date: 10/18/2023 05:24:02 PM
Hello! One of the people on the regular Z/VM list many years ago had a copy of the Fiche behind VM/ESA (I do not know what version), this is the entire source code reduced to Fiche. Would the actual VCF offices in NJ want these? Failing that does anyone on the list want these? Please note that the box is a heavy one.
Oh and the wandering dino is currently asleep inside the (new) warehouse area. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
Hello! Dave M spoke up first, but, ah, we'd need to see about what happens next. What's involved in reading the fiche, and making physical, read printed copies of it? I know they do that on Bit Savers, but I'd never asked them about it. Incidentally they are still packaged in shrink wrapped plastic and the box is stuffed with papers from the sender, it was a fellow who worked or still works for the Toronto mass transit authorities. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again." On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 1:03 PM Dan FitzGerald <danjfitzgerald@comcast.net> wrote:
As the team lead for the IBM CIO's z/VM squad, and the curator of the Classical Computing Laboratory at IBM Poughkeepsie, I most certainly would want it if nobody else takes it.
Regards, Dan FitzGerald They/Them/Theirs http://www.vm.ibm.com/devpages/dfitzger
-----Original Message----- From: Gregg Levine via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Reply-To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> To: vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org Cc: Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8@gmail.com> Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] Fiche documentation for all of VM/ESA Date: 10/18/2023 05:24:02 PM
Hello! One of the people on the regular Z/VM list many years ago had a copy of the Fiche behind VM/ESA (I do not know what version), this is the entire source code reduced to Fiche. Would the actual VCF offices in NJ want these? Failing that does anyone on the list want these? Please note that the box is a heavy one.
Oh and the wandering dino is currently asleep inside the (new) warehouse area. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
Greg, I'm sorry I didn't see this sooner! The IBM Archives have a microfiche machine and can read the data and can digitize it. However, the archivist says that he would need to ask somebody in IBM Legal if it could be released back to the public. I know that IBM released most of their VM/ESA code with the product, but not all; stuff considered confidential was distrubuted as "OCO - Object Code Only" in the form of binary blobs of data. If the data this guy has he got from his job at the Toronto transit authority, then it is highly likely it is the code that was shipped with the VM/ESA tapes itself, and there is a high liklihood that it could be released back to the public. However, they _would_ need to reach out to somebody in IBM Legal about it first and get the all-clear. If you are going to be at the swap meet/workshop this weekend, I can talk about it in more detail. Regards, Dan FitzGerald They/Them/Theirs http://www.vm.ibm.com/devpages/dfitzger -----Original Message----- From: Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8@gmail.com> To: Dan FitzGerald <danjfitzgerald@comcast.net> Cc: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Fiche documentation for all of VM/ESA Date: 10/25/2023 04:35:02 PM Hello! Dave M spoke up first, but, ah, we'd need to see about what happens next. What's involved in reading the fiche, and making physical, read printed copies of it? I know they do that on Bit Savers, but I'd never asked them about it. Incidentally they are still packaged in shrink wrapped plastic and the box is stuffed with papers from the sender, it was a fellow who worked or still works for the Toronto mass transit authorities. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again." On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 1:03 PM Dan FitzGerald <danjfitzgerald@comcast.net> wrote:
As the team lead for the IBM CIO's z/VM squad, and the curator of the Classical Computing Laboratory at IBM Poughkeepsie, I most certainly would want it if nobody else takes it.
Regards, Dan FitzGerald They/Them/Theirs http://www.vm.ibm.com/devpages/dfitzger
-----Original Message----- From: Gregg Levine via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Reply-To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> To: vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org Cc: Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8@gmail.com> Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] Fiche documentation for all of VM/ESA Date: 10/18/2023 05:24:02 PM
Hello! One of the people on the regular Z/VM list many years ago had a copy of the Fiche behind VM/ESA (I do not know what version), this is the entire source code reduced to Fiche. Would the actual VCF offices in NJ want these? Failing that does anyone on the list want these? Please note that the box is a heavy one.
Oh and the wandering dino is currently asleep inside the (new) warehouse area. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On 10/27/23 17:31, Dan FitzGerald via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
The IBM Archives have a microfiche machine and can read the data and can digitize it. However, the archivist says that he would need to ask somebody in IBM Legal if it could be released back to the public. I know that IBM released most of their VM/ESA code with the product, but not all; stuff considered confidential was distrubuted as "OCO - Object Code Only" in the form of binary blobs of data. If the data this guy has he got from his job at the Toronto transit authority, then it is highly likely it is the code that was shipped with the VM/ESA tapes itself, and there is a high liklihood that it could be released back to the public. However, they _would_ need to reach out to somebody in IBM Legal about it first and get the all-clear.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but this is why it probably shouldn't go to IBM. Just sayin'. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
Hello! Dave I agree. Now stop trying to bribe those snow leopards, as they have enough to eat from the life outside. Dan F, I'll certainly be at the meet tomorrow, that;'s what this thread is all about. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again." On Fri, Oct 27, 2023 at 5:35 PM Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 10/27/23 17:31, Dan FitzGerald via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
The IBM Archives have a microfiche machine and can read the data and can digitize it. However, the archivist says that he would need to ask somebody in IBM Legal if it could be released back to the public. I know that IBM released most of their VM/ESA code with the product, but not all; stuff considered confidential was distrubuted as "OCO - Object Code Only" in the form of binary blobs of data. If the data this guy has he got from his job at the Toronto transit authority, then it is highly likely it is the code that was shipped with the VM/ESA tapes itself, and there is a high liklihood that it could be released back to the public. However, they _would_ need to reach out to somebody in IBM Legal about it first and get the all-clear.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but this is why it probably shouldn't go to IBM.
Just sayin'.
-Dave
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
Greg, Dave: This response was kind of rude, especially considering the kind of work that folks like me are doing at IBM to keep this stuff preserved. Regards, Dan FitzGerald They/Them/Theirs http://www.vm.ibm.com/devpages/dfitzger -----Original Message----- From: Gregg Levine via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Reply-To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Cc: Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Fiche documentation for all of VM/ESA Date: 10/27/2023 06:29:59 PM Hello! Dave I agree. Now stop trying to bribe those snow leopards, as they have enough to eat from the life outside. Dan F, I'll certainly be at the meet tomorrow, that;'s what this thread is all about. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again." On Fri, Oct 27, 2023 at 5:35 PM Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 10/27/23 17:31, Dan FitzGerald via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
The IBM Archives have a microfiche machine and can read the data and can digitize it. However, the archivist says that he would need to ask somebody in IBM Legal if it could be released back to the public. I know that IBM released most of their VM/ESA code with the product, but not all; stuff considered confidential was distrubuted as "OCO - Object Code Only" in the form of binary blobs of data. If the data this guy has he got from his job at the Toronto transit authority, then it is highly likely it is the code that was shipped with the VM/ESA tapes itself, and there is a high liklihood that it could be released back to the public. However, they _would_ need to reach out to somebody in IBM Legal about it first and get the all-clear.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but this is why it probably shouldn't go to IBM.
Just sayin'.
-Dave
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
Dan, I apologize, there was no ill intent at all in my message, and I certainly did not mean to be rude. I run a public museum that focuses, in part on IBM mainframes and I've never heard of the preservation work you're doing. Perhaps if you described it, that would be helpful. Right now, all we have to go on is your statement below in which you indicate that, if received by IBM, these materials may simply fall into the somewhat infamous black hole of IBM Legal. If you look at things from our perspective, with only that to go on, I'm sure you can see our point of view. Again I meant no rudeness or disrespect whatsoever, and I sincerely apologize if I came across that way. -Dave On 11/3/23 12:07, Dan FitzGerald via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Greg, Dave:
This response was kind of rude, especially considering the kind of work that folks like me are doing at IBM to keep this stuff preserved.
Regards, Dan FitzGerald They/Them/Theirs http://www.vm.ibm.com/devpages/dfitzger
-----Original Message----- From: Gregg Levine via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Reply-To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Cc: Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Fiche documentation for all of VM/ESA Date: 10/27/2023 06:29:59 PM
Hello! Dave I agree. Now stop trying to bribe those snow leopards, as they have enough to eat from the life outside. Dan F, I'll certainly be at the meet tomorrow, that;'s what this thread is all about. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On Fri, Oct 27, 2023 at 5:35 PM Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 10/27/23 17:31, Dan FitzGerald via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
The IBM Archives have a microfiche machine and can read the data and can digitize it. However, the archivist says that he would need to ask somebody in IBM Legal if it could be released back to the public. I know that IBM released most of their VM/ESA code with the product, but not all; stuff considered confidential was distrubuted as "OCO - Object Code Only" in the form of binary blobs of data. If the data this guy has he got from his job at the Toronto transit authority, then it is highly likely it is the code that was shipped with the VM/ESA tapes itself, and there is a high liklihood that it could be released back to the public. However, they _would_ need to reach out to somebody in IBM Legal about it first and get the all-clear.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but this is why it probably shouldn't go to IBM.
Just sayin'.
-Dave
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
Hello! Same here. I did not mean anything like that either. For the past several years, perhaps all of the 20 odd years I've lived here, I've been working with a group of hobbyists regarding an excellent emulator who when properly configured could run rings around the being spun down thing that claimed to be able to take over for the P/390 families. (It could not IMHO.) Anyway in my case the OS was VM/370, the 6th in releases as it happens. And we've been frustrated in tracking down the entire crowd of bits that surrounded that specific release. I'd last heard about the time Tux was celebrating the beginning of running itself on a S/390 system, that it all sat in a vault someplace. So I asked a now retired IBMer about. it. His response? Flat out "No!" It wasn't until a discussion much later that I'd found out that the company was decidedly worried about someone using the older release to setup an entire business about it. In reality the intention was to make use of it as a learning function. Although some people do use MVS and DOS/VS to run activities resembling one, they do not make money that way. I believe there are those people who do much the same for VM/370 as it happens. That's my take. Rudeness wasn't my intention. I do not normally do rude online. There's no fun it. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again." On Fri, Nov 3, 2023 at 12:58 PM Dave McGuire <mcguire@neurotica.com> wrote:
Dan, I apologize, there was no ill intent at all in my message, and I certainly did not mean to be rude.
I run a public museum that focuses, in part on IBM mainframes and I've never heard of the preservation work you're doing. Perhaps if you described it, that would be helpful. Right now, all we have to go on is your statement below in which you indicate that, if received by IBM, these materials may simply fall into the somewhat infamous black hole of IBM Legal. If you look at things from our perspective, with only that to go on, I'm sure you can see our point of view.
Again I meant no rudeness or disrespect whatsoever, and I sincerely apologize if I came across that way.
-Dave
On 11/3/23 12:07, Dan FitzGerald via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Greg, Dave:
This response was kind of rude, especially considering the kind of work that folks like me are doing at IBM to keep this stuff preserved.
Regards, Dan FitzGerald They/Them/Theirs http://www.vm.ibm.com/devpages/dfitzger
-----Original Message----- From: Gregg Levine via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Reply-To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Cc: Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Fiche documentation for all of VM/ESA Date: 10/27/2023 06:29:59 PM
Hello! Dave I agree. Now stop trying to bribe those snow leopards, as they have enough to eat from the life outside. Dan F, I'll certainly be at the meet tomorrow, that;'s what this thread is all about. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On Fri, Oct 27, 2023 at 5:35 PM Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 10/27/23 17:31, Dan FitzGerald via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
The IBM Archives have a microfiche machine and can read the data and can digitize it. However, the archivist says that he would need to ask somebody in IBM Legal if it could be released back to the public. I know that IBM released most of their VM/ESA code with the product, but not all; stuff considered confidential was distrubuted as "OCO - Object Code Only" in the form of binary blobs of data. If the data this guy has he got from his job at the Toronto transit authority, then it is highly likely it is the code that was shipped with the VM/ESA tapes itself, and there is a high liklihood that it could be released back to the public. However, they _would_ need to reach out to somebody in IBM Legal about it first and get the all-clear.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but this is why it probably shouldn't go to IBM.
Just sayin'.
-Dave
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
participants (6)
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Dan FitzGerald -
Dave McGuire -
Douglas Crawford -
Ethan O'Toole -
Gregg Levine -
Jeffrey Brace