Vintage Computer Federation at Lehigh Valley FAST 2016
Thanks from me for your excellent report on your own activities and exhibit. Your exhibit is good vintage-computing outreach. Can you also report on the other exhibits there? I am (and others I correspond with are) interested in how children today are presented with STEM technology, by the various groups that support (and sell) STEM; and how the kids themselves present their own efforts and school-sponsored projects. We compare that, with how we old-people learned about computing and electronics, in our youth. The vintage-computing connection to STEM in my opinion is this. In the vintage era of the 1960's and 70's, "STEM" was represented as "the space race", and it was mostly a federal/schools program on education fundamentals. There were few products to offer, not many computers. Apple and the Apple II were the educational "push", but that came later. And the "personal computer revolution" as group events, was mostly a product of adults in locally-formed clubs, that met in homes or in public spaces (libraries, museums, etc.). Kids were not a big part of either of these, until the video gaming rise (and fall) in the later 1980's. NONE of this was particularly "competitive" as in contests between groups to perform any kind of tasks or games, with scoring and regional/national contests. Efforts to nationalize computer clubs, didn't pan out. Later there were top-down organizations, around Apple or IBM or other specific product lines; and most supporting magazines or publications or conventions, or BBS's or email lists. STEM of course, in the schools and as supported by national groups and international corporations, is quite a contrast. The common point is that these circumstances - STEM in schools, what became vintage personal computing groups - is how these introduced "computing" technology to youngsters. We vintage-computing owners look back at vintage computers and remember our involvement, and our machines. I have no doubt that some STEM participants, will look back at their experiences and products used, with the same sort of "vintage" interests. But more relevant today to us, is when STEM participants - still kids - come to vintage computing events and exhibits, and evaluate "our" technology based on their STEM competitions and events. They will expect the kinds of "computing" they have experienced; and will have no experience with some of our earliest vintage computers which we display and describe. Todd's report, in my opinion, gives us a glimpse into the present (and the future) of vintage computing. The kid's attraction to printers, for instance, is that they are loud, use paper, and move paper around - not that they would actually READ any papery-bloggy-texty things not on a screen! And of course, the parents have their own expectations and histories, directly related to vintage computing, but likely influenced by their kid's participation in STEM. Todd and his colleagues, reported on both, thanks! (Sorry if that appears long-winded. But these are not simple concepts or even widely-held point of view. It takes time to explain such things. And frankly, it's a little frustrating to me, when I post such remarks. Why? Because I get little response. If there's no reaction, I assume I'm either off-base, boring, overwhelming, or irrelevant to those reading this list. So let me know if what I say, means anything to those reading it. Thank you.) Herb -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net
Herb, I do read and appreciate your posts. I liken learning about vintage computing to learning history: You have a much better idea of where you are going if you know where you've been. This is why I encourage my kids to explore it in order to obtain a deeper understanding of modern technology. Dean On Thursday, September 15, 2016, Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Thanks from me for your excellent report on your own activities and exhibit. Your exhibit is good vintage-computing outreach. Can you also report on the other exhibits there? I am (and others I correspond with are) interested in how children today are presented with STEM technology, by the various groups that support (and sell) STEM; and how the kids themselves present their own efforts and school-sponsored projects. We compare that, with how we old-people learned about computing and electronics, in our youth.
The vintage-computing connection to STEM in my opinion is this. In the vintage era of the 1960's and 70's, "STEM" was represented as "the space race", and it was mostly a federal/schools program on education fundamentals. There were few products to offer, not many computers. Apple and the Apple II were the educational "push", but that came later. And the "personal computer revolution" as group events, was mostly a product of adults in locally-formed clubs, that met in homes or in public spaces (libraries, museums, etc.). Kids were not a big part of either of these, until the video gaming rise (and fall) in the later 1980's.
NONE of this was particularly "competitive" as in contests between groups to perform any kind of tasks or games, with scoring and regional/national contests. Efforts to nationalize computer clubs, didn't pan out. Later there were top-down organizations, around Apple or IBM or other specific product lines; and most supporting magazines or publications or conventions, or BBS's or email lists.
STEM of course, in the schools and as supported by national groups and international corporations, is quite a contrast. The common point is that these circumstances - STEM in schools, what became vintage personal computing groups - is how these introduced "computing" technology to youngsters. We vintage-computing owners look back at vintage computers and remember our involvement, and our machines. I have no doubt that some STEM participants, will look back at their experiences and products used, with the same sort of "vintage" interests.
But more relevant today to us, is when STEM participants - still kids - come to vintage computing events and exhibits, and evaluate "our" technology based on their STEM competitions and events. They will expect the kinds of "computing" they have experienced; and will have no experience with some of our earliest vintage computers which we display and describe.
Todd's report, in my opinion, gives us a glimpse into the present (and the future) of vintage computing.
The kid's attraction to printers, for instance, is that they are loud, use paper, and move paper around - not that they would actually READ any papery-bloggy-texty things not on a screen! And of course, the parents have their own expectations and histories, directly related to vintage computing, but likely influenced by their kid's participation in STEM. Todd and his colleagues, reported on both, thanks!
(Sorry if that appears long-winded. But these are not simple concepts or even widely-held point of view. It takes time to explain such things. And frankly, it's a little frustrating to me, when I post such remarks. Why? Because I get little response. If there's no reaction, I assume I'm either off-base, boring, overwhelming, or irrelevant to those reading this list. So let me know if what I say, means anything to those reading it. Thank you.)
Herb -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net
On 09/15/2016 12:24 PM, Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
You have a much better idea of where you are going if you know where you've been. This is why I encourage my kids to explore it in order to obtain a deeper understanding of modern technology.
This is the main reason I'm so strongly interested in old technology. I started out with PDP-11 systems when they were more or less current; I had no particular affinity for "classic computing" other than the simple fact that, as a teenager, older computers were available more affordably than current ones. Later, as my professional activities grew, I began to see that there was a lot of wheel reinventing going on around me. I started studying very old books on algorithms for software, and found them to be a treasure trove of fantastic information and techniques that are so fundamental as to be completely timeless, yet most "modern" programmers dismissed them as being "obsolete". They were, of course, fools. Today, it seems half the people on the planet write software. Many of them are better suited to flipping burgers, and a lot of the stuff they churn out is trash. But back in the 1950s and 1960s, only the very best and brightest had any sort of access to computers. Their relative unavailability and the narrowness of the field were barriers to entry. There were very few drooling morons producing stuff like the mounds of garbage that we see today like "systemd" in the Linux world, or, well, pretty much all of Microsoft Windows. I believe that understanding the engineering techniques of the past makes me a more effective engineer in the present. I don't take the "passenger" approach that is so popular with today's lazy people. "Let's see where technology takes us!" No thanks, I see where I can take technology. As someone participating in guiding where we're going, I want to understand, as you stated above Dean, where we've been. One of my favorite quotes, written 110 years ago by Spanish poet George Santayana: "Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
"We are like dwarfs sitting on the shoulders of giants. We see more, and things that are more distant, than they did, not because our sight is superior or because we are taller than they, but because they raise us up, and by their great stature add to ours." John of Salisbury - 1159 On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 1:07 PM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On 09/15/2016 12:24 PM, Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
You have a much better idea of where you are going if you know where you've been. This is why I encourage my kids to explore it in order to obtain a deeper understanding of modern technology.
This is the main reason I'm so strongly interested in old technology.
I started out with PDP-11 systems when they were more or less current; I had no particular affinity for "classic computing" other than the simple fact that, as a teenager, older computers were available more affordably than current ones.
Later, as my professional activities grew, I began to see that there was a lot of wheel reinventing going on around me. I started studying very old books on algorithms for software, and found them to be a treasure trove of fantastic information and techniques that are so fundamental as to be completely timeless, yet most "modern" programmers dismissed them as being "obsolete". They were, of course, fools.
Today, it seems half the people on the planet write software. Many of them are better suited to flipping burgers, and a lot of the stuff they churn out is trash. But back in the 1950s and 1960s, only the very best and brightest had any sort of access to computers. Their relative unavailability and the narrowness of the field were barriers to entry. There were very few drooling morons producing stuff like the mounds of garbage that we see today like "systemd" in the Linux world, or, well, pretty much all of Microsoft Windows.
I believe that understanding the engineering techniques of the past makes me a more effective engineer in the present. I don't take the "passenger" approach that is so popular with today's lazy people. "Let's see where technology takes us!" No thanks, I see where I can take technology. As someone participating in guiding where we're going, I want to understand, as you stated above Dean, where we've been.
One of my favorite quotes, written 110 years ago by Spanish poet George Santayana:
"Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
-Dave
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
-----Original Message----- From: vcf-midatlantic [mailto:vcf-midatlantic- bounces@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org] On Behalf Of Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 12:20 PM To: vcf-midatlantic Cc: Herb Johnson Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] Vintage Computer Federation at Lehigh Valley FAST 2016
Thanks from me for your excellent report on your own activities and exhibit. Your exhibit is good vintage-computing outreach. Can you also report on the other exhibits there? I am (and others I correspond with are) interested in how children today are presented with STEM technology, by the various groups that support (and sell) STEM; and how the kids themselves present their own efforts and school-sponsored projects. We compare that, with how we old-people learned about computing and electronics, in our youth.
The vintage-computing connection to STEM in my opinion is this. In the vintage era of the 1960's and 70's, "STEM" was represented as "the space race", and it was mostly a federal/schools program on education fundamentals. There were few products to offer, not many computers. Apple and the Apple II were the educational "push", but that came later. And the "personal computer revolution" as group events, was mostly a product of adults in locally-formed clubs, that met in homes or in public spaces (libraries, museums, etc.). Kids were not a big part of either of these, until the video gaming rise (and fall) in the later 1980's.
NONE of this was particularly "competitive" as in contests between groups to perform any kind of tasks or games, with scoring and regional/national contests. Efforts to nationalize computer clubs, didn't pan out. Later there were top-down organizations, around Apple or IBM or other specific product lines; and most supporting magazines or publications or conventions, or BBS's or email lists.
STEM of course, in the schools and as supported by national groups and international corporations, is quite a contrast. The common point is that these circumstances - STEM in schools, what became vintage personal computing groups - is how these introduced "computing" technology to youngsters. We vintage-computing owners look back at vintage computers and remember our involvement, and our machines. I have no doubt that some STEM participants, will look back at their experiences and products used, with the same sort of "vintage" interests.
But more relevant today to us, is when STEM participants - still kids - come to vintage computing events and exhibits, and evaluate "our" technology based on their STEM competitions and events. They will expect the kinds of "computing" they have experienced; and will have no experience with some of our earliest vintage computers which we display and describe.
Todd's report, in my opinion, gives us a glimpse into the present (and the future) of vintage computing.
The kid's attraction to printers, for instance, is that they are loud, use paper, and move paper around - not that they would actually READ any papery-bloggy-texty things not on a screen! And of course, the parents have their own expectations and histories, directly related to vintage computing, but likely influenced by their kid's participation in STEM. Todd and his colleagues, reported on both, thanks!
(Sorry if that appears long-winded. But these are not simple concepts or even widely-held point of view. It takes time to explain such things. And frankly, it's a little frustrating to me, when I post such remarks. Why? Because I get little response. If there's no reaction, I assume I'm either off-base, boring, overwhelming, or irrelevant to those reading this list. So let me know if what I say, means anything to those reading it. Thank you.)
Herb -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net
Herb, I posted your original message in it's entirety above because I believe it deserves as many re-reads as possible. My personal growth curve is right in that 70's arc you mention, and I have grandkids now who I hope to inspire to similar aspirations. I find your remarks on point, and always interesting. I look forward to your continued contributions to the documentation of computing history. -Corey Little Curator, cpmuseum.com Brewer, Programmer.
participants (5)
-
Corey Little -
Dave McGuire -
Dean Notarnicola -
Evan Koblentz -
Herb Johnson