OT: Verizon application to discontinue POTS in New Jersey and other states
Apologies if this is somewhat off-topic, but it seems pertinent given InfoAge's location in New Jersey and probably much of the audience here. Verizon is in the process of applying to discontinue copper POTS service to 270,000 lines in 9 states, including New Jersey and some other east coast states: https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/26110070306/1 I seem to recall reading here at one point that InfoAge had a POTS line - is that still the case and did anyone receive a notice? Particularly given the significance of Camp Evans in hurricanes and other disasters, maybe somebody with VCF might be able to file comments opposing this discontinuance? (Comments can be filed at https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/filings/express in docket 26-227.)
InfoAge is 27K wire feet from the Spring Lakes SPLKNJSLDS5, was a on the DMS-100. Even when Camp Evans was active, the outside plant was in poor shape, Camp Evans cut to ISDN PRI , with dedicated fiber to Fort Monmouth to avoid the failing local loop well before BRAC closed the site. Anticipating the copper sunset, we moved the InfoAge main number to a VoIP provider, and shortly after to Version FiOS with the ONT in Building 9059, with an ATA in the hotel providing dial tone to the gift shop, and admin area. (732-280-3000 and 3001) , with the Radio Museum (732-280-3007) being fed directly from the ONT via a dedicated cable. Martin On 9/7/2026 12:36 PM, InterLinked via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Apologies if this is somewhat off-topic, but it seems pertinent given InfoAge's location in New Jersey and probably much of the audience here.
Verizon is in the process of applying to discontinue copper POTS service to 270,000 lines in 9 states, including New Jersey and some other east coast states: https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/26110070306/1
I seem to recall reading here at one point that InfoAge had a POTS line - is that still the case and did anyone receive a notice? Particularly given the significance of Camp Evans in hurricanes and other disasters, maybe somebody with VCF might be able to file comments opposing this discontinuance? (Comments can be filed at https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/filings/express in docket 26-227.)
Interesting, I didn't think there was fiber out there. Is the service on the ONT "POTS over fiber" or Digital Voice? Verizon isn't aiming to discontinue "POTS over fiber" at this time, just copper service. I imagine InfoAge has sufficient backup power for the fiber and what not but a lot of consumers are going to get screwed. The New Jersey PUC does seem more interested in this issue than in other states, so hopefully they will end up filing comments as well. On 9/7/2026 12:56 PM, Martin A Flynn via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
InfoAge is 27K wire feet from the Spring Lakes SPLKNJSLDS5, was a on the DMS-100. Even when Camp Evans was active, the outside plant was in poor shape, Camp Evans cut to ISDN PRI , with dedicated fiber to Fort Monmouth to avoid the failing local loop well before BRAC closed the site.
Anticipating the copper sunset, we moved the InfoAge main number to a VoIP provider, and shortly after to Version FiOS with the ONT in Building 9059, with an ATA in the hotel providing dial tone to the gift shop, and admin area. (732-280-3000 and 3001) , with the Radio Museum (732-280-3007) being fed directly from the ONT via a dedicated cable.
Martin
On 9/7/2026 12:36 PM, InterLinked via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Apologies if this is somewhat off-topic, but it seems pertinent given InfoAge's location in New Jersey and probably much of the audience here.
Verizon is in the process of applying to discontinue copper POTS service to 270,000 lines in 9 states, including New Jersey and some other east coast states: https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/26110070306/1
I seem to recall reading here at one point that InfoAge had a POTS line - is that still the case and did anyone receive a notice? Particularly given the significance of Camp Evans in hurricanes and other disasters, maybe somebody with VCF might be able to file comments opposing this discontinuance? (Comments can be filed at https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/filings/express in docket 26-227.)
Neither - the FiOS is a "special arrangement", with both IPV4 and IPV6 addressing using Audiocodes equipment for voice. Working on the backup power issue at the moment. A pair of 3.2 kW UPS are being deployed in building 9059 shortly to support the ONT and firewall cluster. On 9/7/2026 1:17 PM, InterLinked wrote:
Interesting, I didn't think there was fiber out there. Is the service on the ONT "POTS over fiber" or Digital Voice? Verizon isn't aiming to discontinue "POTS over fiber" at this time, just copper service.
I imagine InfoAge has sufficient backup power for the fiber and what not but a lot of consumers are going to get screwed. The New Jersey PUC does seem more interested in this issue than in other states, so hopefully they will end up filing comments as well.
On 9/7/2026 12:56 PM, Martin A Flynn via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
InfoAge is 27K wire feet from the Spring Lakes CO SPLKNJSLDS5, a on the DMS-100. Even when Camp Evans was active, the outside plant was in poor shape, Camp Evans cut to ISDN PRI , with dedicated fiber to Fort Monmouth to avoid the failing local loop well before BRAC closed the site.
Anticipating the copper sunset, we moved the InfoAge main number to a VoIP provider, and shortly after to Version FiOS with the ONT in Building 9059, with an ATA in the hotel providing dial tone to the gift shop, and admin area. (732-280-3000 and 3001) , with the Radio Museum (732-280-3007) being fed directly from the ONT via a dedicated cable.
Martin
On 9/7/2026 12:36 PM, InterLinked via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Apologies if this is somewhat off-topic, but it seems pertinent given InfoAge's location in New Jersey and probably much of the audience here.
Verizon is in the process of applying to discontinue copper POTS service to 270,000 lines in 9 states, including New Jersey and some other east coast states: https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/26110070306/1
I seem to recall reading here at one point that InfoAge had a POTS line - is that still the case and did anyone receive a notice? Particularly given the significance of Camp Evans in hurricanes and other disasters, maybe somebody with VCF might be able to file comments opposing this discontinuance? (Comments can be filed at https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/filings/express in docket 26-227.)
A friend in Chesapeake Virginia was told his copper would be pulled a while ago, but it has yet to happen. They are super excited -- at this point there is no FiOS in his area, only Cox Communications cablemodems. People want FiOS but so far no roll out. When the copper gets pulled, fiber gets delivered. I agree with lack of telco powered loops but we are at the point/close to the point where our phones work without the local cell network being online. And solar power is pretty easy and common as long as sun is out. On another subject, I still slowly fish around for 5ESS phone switches. My goal was to reduce the footprint to get it into a rack or two, and try to find more than one. I've read that you can run the management platform (the Admin module) on a Sun host with an emulator, but not sure if a PCI card is needed. They use Netra T1125ish -- probably why those DC versions existed. As well as the ones for listening into phone calls (CALEA.) Netra T1 takes that down to 1u. Then CM, SM and DC power remains. My hope was to find a number of them and put them in hands of various museums. East, maybe SysSrc if Bob wants one, Bloop, etc. Then they could be networked via ShadyTel or something. I dunno. So far it's been hard to make the right connections, and I've seen the videos where people ended up with qty 24 x 21" telco racks and that isn't appealing at the moment due to space. Thoughts?
Thanks, Yes very interested! Bob Roswell broswell@syssrc.com 410-771-5544 ext 4336 Computer Museum Highlights -----Original Message----- From: Ethan O'Toole via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2026 11:09 AM To: InterLinked via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Cc: Ethan O'Toole <telmnstr@757.org> Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] Re: OT: Verizon / 5E Phone Switchez! A friend in Chesapeake Virginia was told his copper would be pulled a while ago, but it has yet to happen. They are super excited -- at this point there is no FiOS in his area, only Cox Communications cablemodems. People want FiOS but so far no roll out. When the copper gets pulled, fiber gets delivered. I agree with lack of telco powered loops but we are at the point/close to the point where our phones work without the local cell network being online. And solar power is pretty easy and common as long as sun is out. On another subject, I still slowly fish around for 5ESS phone switches. My goal was to reduce the footprint to get it into a rack or two, and try to find more than one. I've read that you can run the management platform (the Admin module) on a Sun host with an emulator, but not sure if a PCI card is needed. They use Netra T1125ish -- probably why those DC versions existed. As well as the ones for listening into phone calls (CALEA.) Netra T1 takes that down to 1u. Then CM, SM and DC power remains. My hope was to find a number of them and put them in hands of various museums. East, maybe SysSrc if Bob wants one, Bloop, etc. Then they could be networked via ShadyTel or something. I dunno. So far it's been hard to make the right connections, and I've seen the videos where people ended up with qty 24 x 21" telco racks and that isn't appealing at the moment due to space. Thoughts?
On 9/8/2026 11:09:20 AM, Ethan O'Toole via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
A friend in Chesapeake Virginia was told his copper would be pulled a while ago, but it has yet to happen. They are super excited -- at this point there is no FiOS in his area, only Cox Communications cablemodems. People want FiOS but so far no roll out. When the copper gets pulled, fiber gets delivered.
Unfortunately, this is not true anymore. In the current discontinuance application, Verizon plans to decommission copper even where there is no fiber or other reliable alternatives. In most of the areas that have FiOS, Verizon has already forced the copper customers onto fiber anyways. Sounds like your friend is in for a rude awakening when he realizes nothing better is on the way. He's probably never going to get fiber and if I were him, I would submit opposition comments to the FCC ASAP (at least by Thursday, the deadline).
Unfortunately, this is not true anymore. In the current discontinuance application, Verizon plans to decommission copper even where there is no fiber or other reliable alternatives. In most of the areas that have FiOS, Verizon has already forced the copper customers onto fiber anyways.
Sounds like your friend is in for a rude awakening when he realizes nothing better is on the way. He's probably never going to get fiber and if I were him, I would submit opposition comments to the FCC ASAP (at least by Thursday, the deadline).
Ah. They just don't want the customers? Roll out too expensive? I've always heard internally Verizon saw wireless as the future and landlines a dead thing. I am sure they get killed when it comes to taxes and fees and stuff for having the copper in the ground. Just like when they go under railroad tracks. I remember when FiOS originally came to my market (Southeastern Virginia) there was a lot of drama. Some of the people running the contractors went to prison for using illegal labor, while they said Verizon basically pushed them to do so. Funding wasn't enough to hire legally. They never came to my city at the time, I believe the city council people were given Cox stock to keep Verizon out or something crazy. - Ethan
On 9/8/2026 2:42 PM, Ethan O'Toole wrote:
Unfortunately, this is not true anymore. In the current discontinuance application, Verizon plans to decommission copper even where there is no fiber or other reliable alternatives. In most of the areas that have FiOS, Verizon has already forced the copper customers onto fiber anyways.
Sounds like your friend is in for a rude awakening when he realizes nothing better is on the way. He's probably never going to get fiber and if I were him, I would submit opposition comments to the FCC ASAP (at least by Thursday, the deadline).
Ah. They just don't want the customers? Roll out too expensive?
Probably not profitable enough for them. Even if something is profitable for them, if it's not profitable enough, and a growth prospect, they're not interested. That's what separates them from the smaller phone companies. Verizon isn't unique. AT&T has already stated that in California, for instance, they have no plans to deploy fiber in most of their service territory. As in this case, they still want to eliminate copper and force people to rely on cellular service (if it works at all). Verizon and CenturyLink are also following suit.
I've always heard internally Verizon saw wireless as the future and landlines a dead thing.
Of course, wireless is cheaper for them to deploy, has no state oversight, fewer consumer protections, no obligations to serve everybody, no requirements to share physical plant with competitors, etc. They don't have your best interest in mind.
I am sure they get killed when it comes to taxes and fees and stuff for having the copper in the ground. Just like when they go under railroad tracks.
I doubt it. AT&T is still making a 32% profit off of copper POTS. Last year it was 43%. They are certainly charging their customers enough, the way they've kept raising rates to coerce people to dump the service. My service is over fiber unfortunately, and they milk me just as much as they do their copper customers, since it's still regulated service. But unlike copper, it doesn't work as well. The RBOCs have a disdain for regulated voice service, state oversight, and the obligation to serve everybody as a utility. That's really what it comes down to.
I remember when FiOS originally came to my market (Southeastern Virginia) there was a lot of drama. Some of the people running the contractors went to prison for using illegal labor, while they said Verizon basically pushed them to do so. Funding wasn't enough to hire legally. They never came to my city at the time, I believe the city council people were given Cox stock to keep Verizon out or something crazy.
Doesn't surprise me. Verizon, AT&T, etc. would do anything to boost their profits further, even if that meant doing business with the devil.
On 08/09/2026 19:42, Ethan O'Toole via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Unfortunately, this is not true anymore. In the current discontinuance application, Verizon plans to decommission copper even where there is no fiber or other reliable alternatives. In most of the areas that have FiOS, Verizon has already forced the copper customers onto fiber anyways.
Sounds like your friend is in for a rude awakening when he realizes nothing better is on the way. He's probably never going to get fiber and if I were him, I would submit opposition comments to the FCC ASAP (at least by Thursday, the deadline).
Ah. They just don't want the customers? Roll out too expensive? I've always heard internally Verizon saw wireless as the future and landlines a dead thing. I am sure they get killed when it comes to taxes and fees and stuff for having the copper in the ground. Just like when they go under railroad tracks. The copper is worth more removed from the ground and sold for cash. OpenReach which inherited our equivalent of Bell are ripping it out and selling it.
https://www.aol.co.uk/articles/bt-track-estimated-2bn-windfall-140629000.htm... I the UK the POTS service is scheduled to end Jan 2027. Most will get some kind of VOIP. May be fibre or part-fibre solution network provision. Our houses are usually closer together so many have copper from the house to a street cabinet, then Fibre to the old exchange. Other have what we call FTTP so full fibre. A few still have no fibre and may get a copper solution where the VOIP converter is in the old Exchange.
I remember when FiOS originally came to my market (Southeastern Virginia) there was a lot of drama. Some of the people running the contractors went to prison for using illegal labor, while they said Verizon basically pushed them to do so. Funding wasn't enough to hire legally. They never came to my city at the time, I believe the city council people were given Cox stock to keep Verizon out or something crazy.
- Ethan
Dave G4UGM
Hello! Ethan you do know that Cox was bought by Spectrum to save them from an extremely rude awakening? It is a customer service problem. According to one of us on the list Comcast for Business has good service at both ends. According to a friend I had for a while, he and I are no longer in contact. while living in AZ they experienced service so bad it made them think it wasn't managed by people. And no, not dinos. Try the other inhabitants of Northern CA. But I agree with all of you, Verizon service methods are so bad they resemble the bottom of a canyon on Mars. ---- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com "This signature was once found posting rude messages in English in the Moscow subway." On Tue, Sep 8, 2026 at 2:42 PM Ethan O'Toole via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Unfortunately, this is not true anymore. In the current discontinuance application, Verizon plans to decommission copper even where there is no fiber or other reliable alternatives. In most of the areas that have FiOS, Verizon has already forced the copper customers onto fiber anyways.
Sounds like your friend is in for a rude awakening when he realizes nothing better is on the way. He's probably never going to get fiber and if I were him, I would submit opposition comments to the FCC ASAP (at least by Thursday, the deadline).
Ah. They just don't want the customers? Roll out too expensive? I've always heard internally Verizon saw wireless as the future and landlines a dead thing. I am sure they get killed when it comes to taxes and fees and stuff for having the copper in the ground. Just like when they go under railroad tracks.
I remember when FiOS originally came to my market (Southeastern Virginia) there was a lot of drama. Some of the people running the contractors went to prison for using illegal labor, while they said Verizon basically pushed them to do so. Funding wasn't enough to hire legally. They never came to my city at the time, I believe the city council people were given Cox stock to keep Verizon out or something crazy.
- Ethan
On Sep 8, 2026, at 11:09 AM, Ethan O'Toole via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On another subject, I still slowly fish around for 5ESS phone switches. My goal was to reduce the footprint to get it into a rack or two, and try to find more than one. I've read that you can run the management platform (the Admin module) on a Sun host with an emulator, but not sure if a PCI card is needed. They use Netra T1125ish -- probably why those DC versions existed. As well as the ones for listening into phone calls (CALEA.) Netra T1 takes that down to 1u. Then CM, SM and DC power remains.
My hope was to find a number of them and put them in hands of various museums. East, maybe SysSrc if Bob wants one, Bloop, etc. Then they could be networked via ShadyTel or something. I dunno. So far it's been hard to make the right connections, and I've seen the videos where people ended up with qty 24 x 21" telco racks and that isn't appealing at the moment due to space.
I've got a Sparc Enterprise T5240 (very similar to the Netra T5220) in decent shape that I've not really made any use of over the past five years (too loud for my basement since the move), so if you need hardware to run any switches you find and that suits, you're welcome to it. It's 2U, so not quite as tiny, but it has a full complement of RAM and will run Solaris 10 and 11 (currently running 11, but rarely). - Dave
participants (7)
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Bob Roswell -
David Riley -
David Wade -
Ethan O'Toole -
Gregg Levine -
InterLinked -
Martin A Flynn