30 Years of Linux
https://linuxfoundation.org/linux30th/ I think Linux is historically important and something VCF may want to cover in the future. For now, I just say Happy 30!
On 8/25/21 12:11 PM, Christian Liendo via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
https://linuxfoundation.org/linux30th/
I think Linux is historically important and something VCF may want to cover in the future.
For now, I just say Happy 30!
I have a 6386 with an old version of Linux on it (1.2?). I think you'd also need to mention the *BSDs also as they were doing 'battle' at the same time. I'll need to see if I can get the 6386(sx) started it hasn't run in a long time. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 1:56 PM Neil Cherry <ncherry@linuxha.com> wrote:
I have a 6386 with an old version of Linux on it (1.2?). I think you'd also need to mention the *BSDs also as they were doing 'battle' at the same time.
I'll need to see if I can get the 6386(sx) started it hasn't run in a long time.
I agree with you that BSD was very important, I worked for an ISP and we used to use a lot of software that only ran on BSD. If you really want to discuss it. NeXT was BSD based, MacOS and IOS for the Iphone are based on Darwin which is BSD based. I would never deny the historical significance of BSD. 30 years is still a nice reminder though. A lot was done with Linux and the history is important. Fun fact, Linux Journal was released in 1994 and I got my first issue and subscription at Trenton Computer Festival. I have the first 12 issues in a box somewhere.
On 8/25/21 2:18 PM, Christian Liendo wrote:
On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 1:56 PM Neil Cherry <ncherry@linuxha.com> wrote:
I have a 6386 with an old version of Linux on it (1.2?). I think you'd also need to mention the *BSDs also as they were doing 'battle' at the same time.
I'll need to see if I can get the 6386(sx) started it hasn't run in a long time.
I agree with you that BSD was very important, I worked for an ISP and we used to use a lot of software that only ran on BSD.
If you really want to discuss it. NeXT was BSD based, MacOS and IOS for the Iphone are based on Darwin which is BSD based.
Those are based on Mach and BSD (I think, don't quote me though). I was thinking PC BSD (?), NetBSD and another that I think became FreeBSD. There was a hot law suite about BSD at the time that allowed Linux to get all the attention because it wasn't tied up in court. It is my opinion that if these free BSDs had not been tied up that they might have eclipsed Linux. It was an interesting time. I recall scrounging up something like 150 1.2M 5 1/4" disks so I could load Linux on the 6386sx. I think it was a few years later that I bought Linux on a CD. That was great! No more swapping disks for hours on end. Heck no creating the disks in the first place amd I think it was like $25 for the CD (I might still have it).
I would never deny the historical significance of BSD.
30 years is still a nice reminder though. A lot was done with Linux and the history is important.
Fun fact, Linux Journal was released in 1994 and I got my first issue and subscription at Trenton Computer Festival. I have the first 12 issues in a box somewhere.
-- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
On 8/25/21 9:12 PM, Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
I was thinking PC BSD (?), NetBSD and another that I think became FreeBSD. There was a hot law suite about BSD at the time that allowed Linux to get all the attention because it wasn't tied up in court.
You're probably thinking of 386BSD, by Bill and Lynne Jolitz. It was initially based on the 4.3BSD Net/2 release. Out of that grew NetBSD and FreeBSD, with the former focused on multi-platform portability and the latter being very PC-centric. During the course of their development, both were re-based onto 4.4BSD-Lite. Not long after, a childish spat between some of the more headstrong core NetBSD developers resulted in one of them taking his toys and stomping off in a huff, forming OpenBSD. The tagline there was that they were focused on security, but for years all that meant was everything was commented out in the as-shipped inetd.conf. While there were other forks here and there, those three remain to carry the BSD legacy. There was also BSD/386, a commercial variant by BSDi which was based in part on the Jolitz' original 386BSD work. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On Aug 25, 2021, at 9:33 PM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Not long after, a childish spat between some of the more headstrong core NetBSD developers resulted in one of them taking his toys and stomping off in a huff, forming OpenBSD. The tagline there was that they were focused on security, but for years all that meant was everything was commented out in the as-shipped inetd.conf.
Theo is quite a personality, but time seems to have improved things in that regard. OpenBSD is, currently, a pretty good force for security (they drive OpenSSH and LibreSSL, and the OpenBSD kernel has been at the forefront of some very good security practices for the last decade or so). I run a rather complex routing arrangement on my OpenBSD box (a PC Engines apu4, which is a pretty decent machine for the price) and I've been pretty happy overall. Drivers need some love, though. - Dave
On 8/26/21 8:03 AM, David Riley wrote:
Not long after, a childish spat between some of the more headstrong core NetBSD developers resulted in one of them taking his toys and stomping off in a huff, forming OpenBSD. The tagline there was that they were focused on security, but for years all that meant was everything was commented out in the as-shipped inetd.conf.
Theo is quite a personality, but time seems to have improved things in that regard.
That's one way to put it. He was a real dick to me when I offered to help him out. I filed him away in the "life's too short for this BS" category.
OpenBSD is, currently, a pretty good force for security (they drive OpenSSH and LibreSSL, and the OpenBSD kernel has been at the forefront of some very good security practices for the last decade or so). I run a rather complex routing arrangement on my OpenBSD box (a PC Engines apu4, which is a pretty decent machine for the price) and I've been pretty happy overall. Drivers need some love, though.
Yes, some good people have joined that project over the years, and have done some great things. I guess most people have forgotten how it started. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On 8/25/21 9:33 PM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On 8/25/21 9:12 PM, Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
I was thinking PC BSD (?), NetBSD and another that I think became FreeBSD. There was a hot law suite about BSD at the time that allowed Linux to get all the attention because it wasn't tied up in court.
You're probably thinking of 386BSD, by Bill and Lynne Jolitz. It was initially based on the 4.3BSD Net/2 release.
Out of that grew NetBSD and FreeBSD, with the former focused on multi-platform portability and the latter being very PC-centric. During the course of their development, both were re-based onto 4.4BSD-Lite.
While there were other forks here and there, those three remain to carry the BSD legacy.
There was also BSD/386, a commercial variant by BSDi which was based in part on the Jolitz' original 386BSD work.
This is why I love this group, those missing details, Thanks. Yes it was BSD/386. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 9:12 PM Neil Cherry <ncherry@linuxha.com> wrote:
Those are based on Mach and BSD (I think, don't quote me though). I was thinking PC BSD (?), NetBSD and another that I think became FreeBSD.
I get it, I'm just saying a lot of devices were based on BSD. Heck Juniper's JUNOs and Citrix's netscaler are BSD based. As for Mach, I know that linux is just considered the kernel. BSD is the kernel and the OS and so you can have BSD running with a Mach kernel. I have seen NeXT and Darwin defended as BSD based.
There was a hot law suite about BSD at the time that allowed Linux to get all the attention because it wasn't tied up in court.
I think the lawsuit you are talking about is this one. UNIX System Laboratories, Inc. v. Berkeley Software Design, Inc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIX_System_Laboratories,_Inc._v._Berkeley_Sof....
It is my opinion that if these free BSDs had not been tied up that they might have eclipsed Linux.
I can see that. I have a completely right field opinion as to why I saw adoption. This is my own opinion and I cannot state it is true. I saw a lot of companies who ran Sun move to Linux because of companies like Red Hat. Many businesses wanted a company that they could get support from and I don't remember a company that supported BSD like Red Hat supported Linux. I know there were other Linux companies but I would say Red Hat because thats the one I remember the most. I remember my company adopted Linux because it was certified for the applications we used and thus we moved off SunOS and then moved everything else to linux.
It was an interesting time.
I agree. I remember working on Sun boxes running Solaris, SGIs running IRIX. My old company had an Apple server running AIX. And I had learned unix Amiga running System Vr4 when I worked in Amagination. Good times.
On 8/26/21 8:22 AM, Christian Liendo via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Those are based on Mach and BSD (I think, don't quote me though). I was thinking PC BSD (?), NetBSD and another that I think became FreeBSD.
I get it, I'm just saying a lot of devices were based on BSD. Heck Juniper's JUNOs and Citrix's netscaler are BSD based.
Many high-end DSLR cameras too, past and present. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On 8/26/21 11:48 AM, Christian Liendo via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 11:11 AM Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Many high-end DSLR cameras too, past and present.
-Dave
Thats cool, I didn't know that.
Linux can be found in a lot of places. I can't recall what odd device I saw it in. I know some railroad equipment is using Linux (multiple different processors with tie breaking). -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
On 8/26/21 12:11 PM, Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Many high-end DSLR cameras too, past and present.
Thats cool, I didn't know that.
Linux can be found in a lot of places. I can't recall what odd device I saw it in. I know some railroad equipment is using Linux (multiple different processors with tie breaking).
While I was talking about BSD (NetBSD in particular) above, this is very true. Nearly all "home" routers run Linux, hospital ventilators and patient monitoring equipment, oscilloscopes, effectively all mobile phones except for iPhones, recent refrigerators and washing machines...you name it. My previous desktop monitor, a 4K Seiki SE39UY04, runs Linux internally on a MIPS processor. Yes, the *monitor*. Linux is *everywhere*. I'm willing to bet that everyone on this list, literally every person, has half a dozen instances of Linux in their houses right now that they don't even know about. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
Hello! Also HDTV sets. Especially those so-called Smart TV ones. At one point they even made the code available. Before we get into name calling on the behalf of a very busy penguin, let's just state it right now, Slackware is the oldest of the distributions, because it is still out there. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again." On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 12:24 PM Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 8/26/21 12:11 PM, Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Many high-end DSLR cameras too, past and present.
Thats cool, I didn't know that.
Linux can be found in a lot of places. I can't recall what odd device I saw it in. I know some railroad equipment is using Linux (multiple different processors with tie breaking).
While I was talking about BSD (NetBSD in particular) above, this is very true. Nearly all "home" routers run Linux, hospital ventilators and patient monitoring equipment, oscilloscopes, effectively all mobile phones except for iPhones, recent refrigerators and washing machines...you name it. My previous desktop monitor, a 4K Seiki SE39UY04, runs Linux internally on a MIPS processor. Yes, the *monitor*.
Linux is *everywhere*. I'm willing to bet that everyone on this list, literally every person, has half a dozen instances of Linux in their houses right now that they don't even know about.
-Dave
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On 8/26/21 12:24, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On 8/26/21 12:11 PM, Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Many high-end DSLR cameras too, past and present. Thats cool, I didn't know that. Linux can be found in a lot of places. I can't recall what odd device I saw it in. I know some railroad equipment is using Linux (multiple different processors with tie breaking). While I was talking about BSD (NetBSD in particular) above, this is very true. Nearly all "home" routers run Linux, hospital ventilators and patient monitoring equipment, oscilloscopes, effectively all mobile phones except for iPhones, recent refrigerators and washing machines...you name it. My previous desktop monitor, a 4K Seiki SE39UY04, runs Linux internally on a MIPS processor. Yes, the *monitor*.
Linux is *everywhere*. I'm willing to bet that everyone on this list, literally every person, has half a dozen instances of Linux in their houses right now that they don't even know about.
-Dave
My Tesla runs Linux, but that's in my garage. ;-) Mark
participants (6)
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Christian Liendo -
Dave McGuire -
David Riley -
Gregg Levine -
madodel -
Neil Cherry