Could a Blockchain based file system be the answer!
This discussion thread, was/is about using some kind of "blockchain technology" to preserve vintage computing data, programs, PDF's, photos - you know, the digital bits - with some kind of distributed file system like "blockchain". I'm afraid that in my stone-age 20th century opinion, this is all besides the point, in any number of ways. 0) I refuse to engage in discussion of "blockchain" as per preservation of vintage computing content. Blockchain is a means to an end. I'll address the "end". 1) The issue of preservation of digitized content, is mostly about physical archives. Either one has physical media (say, CD-ROMs) or one has a physical presence for accessable data (some file server on a Web domain). A number of people and organizations do this; they should be supported. If someone wants to add themselves to the crowd, save and distribute copies, that's up to them. If someone wants to create a new organization, they can do that. Otherwise, show some love to those digital archives that you USE for vintage computing. Every day. For free - except someone is paying someone for your "freedom". 2) The issue of saving CONTENT does not preserve *physical artifacts*. I have worked for decades to support and preserve S-100 physical systems, root out their history, support their restoration. Real cards, real power supplies, real diskettes, real paper documentation. All the emulation in the world is not the same as a "ugly box of boards", sitting on your desk, roaring fans, clunking floppy drives, blinking lights, toggling switches (if any, that stopped in 1979 or so), and so on. The challenges of preserving physical artifacts are enormous. Physical space and collecting them is only the beginning. Putting them *back to use* is challenging squared. There's many "museums" which are stacks of computers on a shelf. They have "don't touch" policies, and few on-staff who know how to plug in an AC power cord. The legacy of use, and the capacity to read old data and programs, depends on *use* of vintage computing devices. Emulators succeed in running recovered data and programs. They are very useful in reverse-engineering programs and data files (even on audio cassettes) which are already (re)digitized. They simulate computing on a screen, on modern computers: this at the very least, encourages interest. But there was a time when personal computing was NOT about images on a TV screen! Preserve *that*! Regards, Herb "Flintstone Computing" Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info
On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 11:02 AM, Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
This discussion thread, was/is about using some kind of "blockchain technology" to preserve vintage computing data, programs, PDF's, photos - you know, the digital bits - with some kind of distributed file system like "blockchain".
I'm afraid that in my stone-age 20th century opinion, this is all besides the point, in any number of ways.
0) I refuse to engage in discussion of "blockchain" as per preservation of vintage computing content. Blockchain is a means to an end. I'll address the "end".
1) The issue of preservation of digitized content, is mostly about physical archives. Either one has physical media (say, CD-ROMs) or one has a physical presence for accessable data (some file server on a Web domain). A number of people and organizations do this; they should be supported. If someone wants to add themselves to the crowd, save and distribute copies, that's up to them. If someone wants to create a new organization, they can do that.
Otherwise, show some love to those digital archives that you USE for vintage computing. Every day. For free - except someone is paying someone for your "freedom".
2) The issue of saving CONTENT does not preserve *physical artifacts*. I have worked for decades to support and preserve S-100 physical systems, root out their history, support their restoration. Real cards, real power supplies, real diskettes, real paper documentation. All the emulation in the world is not the same as a "ugly box of boards", sitting on your desk, roaring fans, clunking floppy drives, blinking lights, toggling switches (if any, that stopped in 1979 or so), and so on.
The challenges of preserving physical artifacts are enormous. Physical space and collecting them is only the beginning. Putting them *back to use* is challenging squared. There's many "museums" which are stacks of computers on a shelf. They have "don't touch" policies, and few on-staff who know how to plug in an AC power cord. The legacy of use, and the capacity to read old data and programs, depends on *use* of vintage computing devices.
Emulators succeed in running recovered data and programs. They are very useful in reverse-engineering programs and data files (even on audio cassettes) which are already (re)digitized. They simulate computing on a screen, on modern computers: this at the very least, encourages interest.
But there was a time when personal computing was NOT about images on a TV screen! Preserve *that*!
Regards, Herb "Flintstone Computing" Johnson
Very reasonable. As far as what's in electronic format now, blockchain's big thing is security and verification, not file distribution. A VCFed-sponsored or privately managed bit torrent server would be more apt to what you're talking about. There are Tandy, Commodore, PC, Apple, CP/M collections that would be perfect for such things. Also useful for ISOs of workstation build CDs. I have used bit torrent to capture these. If 5 or 10 of us kept a bit torrent session active with some of these collections that would be the functional equivalent of what I believe you're talking about. We could set up an internal password for VCFed members I suppose to keep it within the group. Bill
On Dec 21, 2017, at 11:23 AM, william degnan via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 11:02 AM, Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org <mailto:vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org>> wrote:
Very reasonable. As far as what's in electronic format now, blockchain's big thing is security and verification, not file distribution
There are a few projects out there involving blockchain and file distribution: off the top of my head I can think of IPFS and FileCoin. David
Evan, Thanks for being our docent yesterday. Everyone in our group thought the tour was interesting and informative. Starting the tour in the "consignment room" was a great idea as it put InfoAge and our museum in perspective. So for my "extended family", thank you for guiding us thru the museum. If that was an hour, it flew by. Jim
I still think torrent is the better idea *IF* there is a want to have redundancy (other than traditional backups) in the collective archive of older digitized media. Internet Archive and the like are great resources, and I support their works, but they are still a "cathedral entity." If they disappear, we lose a LOT! If for some unfortunate reason they collapse, we're stuck with a lot of rebuilding of the archive as a community. Volunteers keeping torrents would not only distribute many recoverable duplicates of the overall content, but will also allow for a quick recovery of the whole. But I would like to suggest an additional failsafe... Does anybody remember QuickPar? It was used as a recovery tool to recover missing segments of group files. At the expense of some additional overhead in file space, if one or more files, like those in a torrent, happened to be unrecoverable or unable to be downloaded, a set of QuickPar files originally generated from the group content can be used to rebuild the missing pieces and files. It's kind of like a RAID system for distributed files. Just my 0.02 On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 11:23 AM, william degnan via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 11:02 AM, Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
This discussion thread, was/is about using some kind of "blockchain technology" to preserve vintage computing data, programs, PDF's, photos - you know, the digital bits - with some kind of distributed file system like "blockchain".
I'm afraid that in my stone-age 20th century opinion, this is all besides the point, in any number of ways.
0) I refuse to engage in discussion of "blockchain" as per preservation of vintage computing content. Blockchain is a means to an end. I'll address the "end".
1) The issue of preservation of digitized content, is mostly about physical archives. Either one has physical media (say, CD-ROMs) or one has a physical presence for accessable data (some file server on a Web domain). A number of people and organizations do this; they should be supported. If someone wants to add themselves to the crowd, save and distribute copies, that's up to them. If someone wants to create a new organization, they can do that.
Otherwise, show some love to those digital archives that you USE for vintage computing. Every day. For free - except someone is paying someone for your "freedom".
2) The issue of saving CONTENT does not preserve *physical artifacts*. I have worked for decades to support and preserve S-100 physical systems, root out their history, support their restoration. Real cards, real power supplies, real diskettes, real paper documentation. All the emulation in the world is not the same as a "ugly box of boards", sitting on your desk, roaring fans, clunking floppy drives, blinking lights, toggling switches (if any, that stopped in 1979 or so), and so on.
The challenges of preserving physical artifacts are enormous. Physical space and collecting them is only the beginning. Putting them *back to use* is challenging squared. There's many "museums" which are stacks of computers on a shelf. They have "don't touch" policies, and few on-staff who know how to plug in an AC power cord. The legacy of use, and the capacity to read old data and programs, depends on *use* of vintage computing devices.
Emulators succeed in running recovered data and programs. They are very useful in reverse-engineering programs and data files (even on audio cassettes) which are already (re)digitized. They simulate computing on a screen, on modern computers: this at the very least, encourages interest.
But there was a time when personal computing was NOT about images on a TV screen! Preserve *that*!
Regards, Herb "Flintstone Computing" Johnson
Very reasonable. As far as what's in electronic format now, blockchain's big thing is security and verification, not file distribution. A VCFed-sponsored or privately managed bit torrent server would be more apt to what you're talking about. There are Tandy, Commodore, PC, Apple, CP/M collections that would be perfect for such things. Also useful for ISOs of workstation build CDs. I have used bit torrent to capture these. If 5 or 10 of us kept a bit torrent session active with some of these collections that would be the functional equivalent of what I believe you're talking about. We could set up an internal password for VCFed members I suppose to keep it within the group.
Bill
participants (6)
-
David Ryskalczyk -
Evan Koblentz -
Herb Johnson -
js＠sdf.org -
jsalzman＠gmail.com -
william degnan