Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Announcement: Administrative and Policy Changes
Originally we said "Mid-Atlantic", our loose focus was NY, NJ, PA, DE, NJ, MD, Washington DC, VA. But we excluded no one, and invited everyone to all events. Statistically, you're going to get people who live closer. We had events in State College PA, Trenton, Wilmington and wherever it was Bryan lived in South Jersey before we moved into the Wall NJ location. We would advertise on our yahoo mailing list and the volume of messages there was huge. I remember we had over 10,000 messages before we moved the mailing list to the current format. Lots of history there if anyone has this. Bill
Stealing Bill's thoughts, I would say that "Mid-Atlantic" refers more to the location of the museum. It is not intended to exclude anyone. Jim Brain, stay on the list! I am wondering why we are having this conversation at all, both about the proposed name change and the issue of locality. Did something change recently that revealed a problem that we didn't know we had? After all this discussion, I am not convinced that anything needs to change (other than better communication as mentioned). Am I missing something deeper? On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 11:38 PM Bill Degnan via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Originally we said "Mid-Atlantic", our loose focus was NY, NJ, PA, DE, NJ, MD, Washington DC, VA. But we excluded no one, and invited everyone to all events. Statistically, you're going to get people who live closer. We had events in State College PA, Trenton, Wilmington and wherever it was Bryan lived in South Jersey before we moved into the Wall NJ location. We would advertise on our yahoo mailing list and the volume of messages there was huge. I remember we had over 10,000 messages before we moved the mailing list to the current format. Lots of history there if anyone has this.
Bill
About five miles up in this thread, it was suggested that the use of "VCF-MA" was creating a confusion that VCF-MA was VCF and vice-versa, when it technically is not. Also, saying "VCF-MA" is a bit of a mouthful, and a single syllable acronym would be easier in conversation. On Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 9:59 AM Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote
I am wondering why we are having this conversation at all, both about the proposed name change and the issue of locality. Did something change recently that revealed a problem that we didn't know we had? After all this discussion, I am not convinced that anything needs to change (other than better communication as mentioned). Am I missing something deeper?
I don't know about anyone else, but when I see VCF-MA, I think "Massachusetts" before "Mid-Atlantic." On Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 10:09 AM Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
About five miles up in this thread, it was suggested that the use of "VCF-MA" was creating a confusion that VCF-MA was VCF and vice-versa, when it technically is not.
Also, saying "VCF-MA" is a bit of a mouthful, and a single syllable acronym would be easier in conversation.
On Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 9:59 AM Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote
I am wondering why we are having this conversation at all, both about the proposed name change and the issue of locality. Did something change recently that revealed a problem that we didn't know we had? After all
this
discussion, I am not convinced that anything needs to change (other than better communication as mentioned). Am I missing something deeper?
Someone suggested VCF-NJ (I think that's not the best idea lol). So yeah- I thought we all agreed on MACE? I think this would be a fine thing to have a in-person membership vote on a Festivus. We should have a limited set of names to choose from....and vote in person this December. -andy
On Oct 30, 2024, at 10:25 AM, Joseph Giliberti via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I don't know about anyone else, but when I see VCF-MA, I think "Massachusetts" before "Mid-Atlantic."
There are many of us who do not attend Festivus. MACE? MARCH!! On Wed, 30 Oct 2024, Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Someone suggested VCF-NJ
(I think that's not the best idea lol).
So yeah- I thought we all agreed on MACE?
I think this would be a fine thing to have a in-person membership vote on a Festivus. We should have a limited set of names to choose from....and vote in person this December.
-andy
On Oct 30, 2024, at 10:25 AM, Joseph Giliberti via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I don't know about anyone else, but when I see VCF-MA, I think "Massachusetts" before "Mid-Atlantic."
Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
VCF-SOTECH Vintage Computer Federation Somewhere On The Eastern Coastal Hemisphere.
Well, it's for the rest of us (not all of us?). But seriously- An official Google form can be made- one is being prepared for the new slate of candidates for Steering Committee in 2025/26 - perhaps this item can be added onto that ballot/form? -andy
On Oct 30, 2024, at 10:37 AM, Mike Loewen via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
There are many of us who do not attend Festivus.
MACE? MARCH!!
Being one of the younger members who have been around the club for nearing on 14 years now I’d like to give my view on things here. First on the name change: As others have said multiple times, the name VCF-MA or VCF ANYTHING is confusing… Talking to people about the local club became near impossible… It a mess to explain too: "Oh you mean the shows!” “No the local chapter in Wall Township, NJ.” “VCFed? The group that runs the shows have a museum?” “Well no… yes?” etc... Its just a mess. It got this way because originally the exact same people ran both orgs, which is the ENTIRE point of this reorganization and rename in my view. To help separate these missions and try and prevent the confusion. Even if some of the folks are involved still involved with both. Both orgs are important, and I think both should get the focus and attention they deserve. And separating them more should help with this, as those who focus on MARCH can focus on MARCH and those who focus on VCFed can focus on VCFed. Second on the “club”/mailing list: I have never been closer than 2~ hours from the museum. So I definitely don’t go to the museum EVERY single event. But I always showed up for MARCH, even after it became VCFed/MARCH. I showed up for the club, the museum, and the people. Not for the organization that runs VCFs... Before the VCFed-ification, it was really great to see a group of people at a workshop (which back then was held 2-4 times a year tops) or Festivus. And put faces to the names on the mailing list. I am not sure when the mailing list became this information hub for VCF events. I think the fact that people seem confused about the purpose of this mailing list (which is currently called vcf-midatlantic) drives home the point of the rename being needed even more than anything else that can be said. I definitely understand there are people who care about the museum, and are here for it, but can’t show up to events regular events. I think its OK to be here for info on the museum, and care about it. Even if you can only make it out once a year for VCF East or Festivus. You can still be a part of the club and should keep up with the goings on at MARCH. That’s part of Thomas’s suggestion to properly communicate to the club what is going on… A monthly report and article about what’s been going on would be fantastic for those who can’t make it regularly to keep up and feel there. Third on VCFed: The funny thing is I am not sure why the mailing list became the "information hub for VCFed events” (I feel like someone implied that earlier). The website does a fantastic job of having all the dates for upcoming events at not only Infoage/MARCH but at other locations like System Source. Which in my mind is System Source is another more local club for others here chiming in about MARCH not being a local place for them, thats OK! Personally I am the opposite of others who live in MD/VA in that System Source is way too far for me to justify a weekend visit most of the time, but MARCH being 2~ hours away is reasonable enough. If it was the opposite for me I’d be volunteering at System Source and and not MARCH occasionally. One of the biggest wins of VCFed as an org in my opinion is being a central location for dates of events and making sure there aren’t collisions in those dates where possible. Super great work by the VCFed team. However I remember when VCFed was formed there were a lot of very very very sour and upset people around the whole idea of it. I can’t say I was a fan either… Absolutely no reason to go into that at this point. Its history now and for better or worse VCFed is here now and I think what it's become is an overall good thing. But there are a lot of us left wanting our “club” back. I am sure there is more here I missed out on, just writing this up while I have time during a meeting… But I would love to see MARCH return. It's always been MARCH to me. It always will be MARCH to me. My first MARCH event was a Festivus, I remember it clearly (maybe partially because I was 15 and couldn’t drink yet haha). It was the last year Dave McGuire showed up to Festivus (we miss you!), Ian Primus got Dave to play Atari! Which I didn’t know how big of a deal that was until much later ;) There were free computers in the corner, including a Sun E450 which I slightly regret not taking but I knew my parents would kill me... People working on the occasional broken piece of electronics. Ian Primus had to fix the DVD player to play the ever popular Airplane on the projector. I was 15, knew no-one, and instantly felt at home after being there for 15 minutes. That’s the club I joined! -Connor K
Even Google and Facebook decided to split business concerns as operating platforms of a parent company through name changes. Google is lead by Alphabet Facebook is lead by Meta I'm sure other examples could be furnished, too. The point is, that each of the above reserved an original, popular name for its active platforms, moving the business side of the service(s) to a differently named entity. So let's look at this as a second chance to do it in a commonly practiced way. MARCH missed the opportunity to remain what it is, under the same name, when the Vintage Computer Federation (VCF) was incorporated (so to speak) under a parent name. VCF is a parent organization. VCF-MA became a platform. If following the practice that bigger corporations use to split management and platforms, then MARCH could have remained the current name, instead of being changed to VCF-MA. MARCH would still have been doing the same thing, and would not have even been subjected to the identity crisis it has now. A crisis reported on through the use of REAL anecdotal evidence provided in this thread from ACTUAL members who have actively tried to explain to others what the difference is between the two entities. So let's jump in the Delorean (Tardis for you Gregg), jump back to that split in time, cast off any biases or bad vibes the MARCH name may have been subject to at that moment, and run with keeping that name as a "platform entity" of VCF, with one less thing (a new name) to have ever had to worry about. I doubt doing so will go against the Temporal Prime Directive (had to fit Star Trek in there somewhere). Jeff Salzman On Wed, Oct 30, 2024 at 10:59 AM Connor Krukosky via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
As others have said multiple times, the name VCF-MA or VCF ANYTHING is confusing… Talking to people about the local club became near impossible… It a mess to explain too: "Oh you mean the shows!” “No the local chapter in Wall Township, NJ.” “VCFed? The group that runs the shows have a museum?” “Well no… yes?” etc...
Its just a mess. It got this way because originally the exact same people ran both orgs, which is the ENTIRE point of this reorganization and rename in my view. To help separate these missions and try and prevent the confusion. Even if some of the folks are involved still involved with both. Both orgs are important, and I think both should get the focus and attention they deserve. And separating them more should help with this, as those who focus on MARCH can focus on MARCH and those who focus on VCFed can focus on VCFed.
So can we have a vote durning Festivus for a new name, or is MARCH going to be chosen for us cause 'that's the way it was and end of discussion' ?
On Oct 30, 2024, at 12:04 PM, Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
split in time, cast off any biases or bad vibes the MARCH name may have been subject to at that moment, and run with keeping that name as a
-andy
How about it’s treated as a non-binding referendum? On Wed, Oct 30, 2024 at 3:35 PM Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
So can we have a vote durning Festivus for a new name, or is MARCH going to be chosen for us cause 'that's the way it was and end of discussion' ?
On Oct 30, 2024, at 12:04 PM, Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
split in time, cast off any biases or bad vibes the MARCH name may have been subject to at that moment, and run with keeping that name as a
-andy
I don't think a vote is necessary nor practical. No offense to anyone here, but considering the fact the mere mention of a name change being "considered" has sparked a nearly 100-post-long thread, I think it would be a massive headache for a nearly inconsequential change. The club is still part of VCFed and absolutely nothing about it has changed, it's just once again called MARCH now. That's it. Case closed. Take care, CJ On Wed, Oct 30, 2024 at 3:35 PM Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
So can we have a vote durning Festivus for a new name, or is MARCH going to be chosen for us cause 'that's the way it was and end of discussion' ?
On Oct 30, 2024, at 12:04 PM, Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
split in time, cast off any biases or bad vibes the MARCH name may have been subject to at that moment, and run with keeping that name as a
-andy
participants (10)
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Andrew Diller -
Bill Degnan -
Chris Fala -
Christian Liendo -
CJ Reha -
Connor Krukosky -
Dean Notarnicola -
Jeff Salzman -
Joseph Giliberti -
Mike Loewen