Reply to David Gesswein: Sorry for the delay in reply, I work offline from this discussion group, and don't read it daily as most do. I always appreciate the informed views of my good friend David. Especially so in this case because, as he points out, he is a producer of similar tech, for MFM hard drive data recovery *and* emulation. He knows more than I. I acknowledge the value of lower cost. But it creates a market where more costly solutions are discouraged. He discusses cost AND time, as user issues. Some people give up their time, to save costs; some give up costs to save their time. But more buy cheap, and sometimes audience matters. A consequence of inexpensive items is that most do not stick around long. that's why I brought it up! But others can try to recreate them when they aren't available (reliably). Thus the "blue pill" Greaseweasel saga, seems to be, to either build a more reliable one (use the proper CPU chip); or to build one on a better CPU (to move forward). My thanks to Jeff Jonas for passing along some Facebook/greaseweasel info, that is where they congregate. "the projects don't cooperate" is a problem, as David describes. I agree. Developers tend to redevelop rather than rework. Also, old stuff gets lost, or may be hard to recover for redevelopment. This is true in most technology; it's ironically true in vintage computing, but thankfully not always. "most of the value is in the decoding code". The value is split, between the enabling hardware to do the read; and the enabling software to decode the sampled flux-patterns. The historic example of the Catweasel series, is that the hardware producers did not make popular decoding software; others did. I did not determine if the FOUR or FIVE developers of Catweasel decoders, cooperated much or not. Each grabbed some piece of vintage computing disks by brand & model (TRS-80 for instance). http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/s_drives_howto.html#catweasel "I image with real hardware when I have it". Yes, that was the ultimate solution for Intel M2FM disks, which at one point were imaged by Catweasel. The images were reproduced as floppies, and read again on Intel systems! I'll contact David privately for more information about his imaged disks, to route his results to active INtel Multibus owners. http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/m2fm.html Of course, we in vintage computing are generally interested in "real hardware". But I get pushback often, in advocating use of period PC-compatibles to image conventional diskettes (made with Intel/NEC/WD floppy disk controller ICs) with Dunfield IMAGEDSK tools. "I hate old PC's!" is the most terse way to describe that. Thus the value of microcontroller based floppy drive emulators and floppy recovery hardware. Well, each of us chooses our areas of vintage interest. ---------------- I had private discussions of the topic, with "Gordon S." AKA gsteemso. He was of a mind, that some kind of vintage-hardware solution for floppy recovery had some merits. I think it will be a challenge to make such a thing at the price of a few tens of dollars, like the other microcontroller solutions. But a solution like the Greaseweasel is a $200 built-for-you solution; some floppy emulators sell for that price. So: a re-vintaged solution is conceivable, but I don't think it would be simple. At this point, the discussion is a matter of specifics and techie details. A little too much so, for general email discussion lists like this, I believe, and the thread seems to have died down. If that's because I didn't reply and took some discussion privately, my apologies. I hope those participating were informed as I was, and those interested can find more information as they see fit. Regards, Herb Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info