Re: [vcf-midatlantic] vcf-midatlantic Digest, Vol 6, Issue 12

12 Nov 2018


      I have been meaning to set up a simple proxy for older machines that don't
use SSL at all, or SSH.  Just have not gotten around to it.  Not too
complicated I don't think but I have not done it yet so I can't say with
100% certainty until I do.  When I do I will make the service available
somehow.
Bill


On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 12:02 PM <vcf-midatlantic-request@lists.vcfed.org>
wrote:
...
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Today's Topics:
1. Vintage Server Racks FS or trade (Jeffrey Golas)
   2.  Museum Report 18-11-11 November 11, 2018 (Jeffrey Brace)
   3. Re:  Museum Report 18-11-11 November 11, 2018 (Tony Bogan)
   4.  www locks out older browsers (Jim Scheef)
   5. Re:  www locks out older browsers (Sentrytv)
   6. Re:  www locks out older browsers (David Gesswein)
   7. Re:  www locks out older browsers (Ethan O'Toole)
   8. Re:  www locks out older browsers (Jim Scheef)
   9. Re:  Hello Introduction (Drew Notarnicola)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2018 15:47:49 -0500
From: Jeffrey Golas <jeffg@junknet.net>
To: vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org
Subject: Vintage Server Racks FS or trade
Message-ID: <FD99E9BD-9D65-4DEA-9D92-506D5144FD36@junknet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii
I have a vintage 1970s (or 60s?) server cabinet for sale. Good shape, blue
filler panel on front and white panels on sides.
Round hole, front panel can be removed. Breaker at bottom can be used as a
power switch and is accesible from the front.
Note that this is the rack only (anything else in pics is not for sale).
Located in Blue Bell, PA (outside Philly) Best offer or trade for an
interesting terminal or maybe s-100 boards?
Pics here:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cvohi2n8oog78tz/AACZBt9LiZPgTA-CZbGjD2dCa?dl=0
Jeff
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2018 17:01:54 -0500
From: Jeffrey Brace <jeffrey@vcfed.org>
To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org>
Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] Museum Report 18-11-11 November 11, 2018
Message-ID:
        <
CALWfZA+QaYcA8KraETqrL6irK-z7rsVckY6MTRTPCN4gEoSk8g@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Good and steady busy day at the museum. About 2 dozen visitors in total
today. In groups between 1 to 5 spread out throughout the day. Some of it
was because of some World War I event in 9032-A, but mostly it was because
it is cold day and this time of year things start to pick up again as
people look for indoor things to do.
Lots of nice visitors with medium to high interest. Some really knew their
stuff.
--
=========================================
Jeff Brace
Vice President
Vintage Computer Federation
--
=========================================
Jeff Brace
Vice President
Vintage Computer Federation
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2018 17:07:49 -0500
From: Tony Bogan <thebogans@mac.com>
To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org>
Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Museum Report 18-11-11 November 11,
        2018
Message-ID: <5423C908-ADCB-4325-A943-B0216590E4C0@mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Glad to hear it was such a good day!!
I forgot today was the 100th anniversary of Armistice Day. Wanted to go up
to IA for that but got stuck at work darnit!!
Was the day of the Armistice with Germany (11am on the 11th day of the
11th month of 1918) which marked the end of all hostilities between the
Allies and Germany.
Tony
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 01:08:43 -0500
From: "Jim Scheef" <js@sdf.org>
To: "'vcf-midatlantic'" <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org>
Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] www locks out older browsers
Message-ID: <000001d47a4e$2d55ea30$8801be90$@sdf.org>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="UTF-8"
Hello all,
After playing with an eMac running OS X 10.3 several months back, I let it
sit for a few months. Now it can no longer open most common websites. So
what changed while the machine was not even plugged in? After some
investigation I realized that main-stream sites have changed their SSL to
require TLS 1.2, mostly because it actually works. The result is that
vintage browsers return an error similar to ?cannot establish secure
connection?. Forcing SSL by refusing to connect on port 80, these sites
have locked out many vintage machines.
So, what can be done? The obvious solution is to find a modern browser
that runs on your vintage OS. This may require an OS upgrade (OS X 10.4
should run on the eMac) which allows running TenFourFox, which seems to
include TLS 1.2.
The irony that in the name of security, the machine used to invent the web
(NeXT) may no longer be able to display it.
Any thoughts?
Jim
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 07:09:15 -0500
From: Sentrytv <sentrytv@yahoo.com>
To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org>
Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] www locks out older browsers
Message-ID: <C464DEB7-3DE0-40BA-94EA-2D1F8AC432BD@yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=utf-8
I had a Mac G5 tower that was running 10.58.
I found a Mozilla browser for this OS and it was working pretty well.
When I sold the tower about six months ago,
of course the websites were working well.
If I find the link for it I will post it.
Mike R.
Sent from:
My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device.
...
On Nov 12, 2018, at 1:08 AM, Jim Scheef via vcf-midatlantic <
vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Hello all,
After playing with an eMac running OS X 10.3 several months back, I let
it sit for a few months. Now it can no longer open most common websites. So
what changed while the machine was not even plugged in? After some
investigation I realized that main-stream sites have changed their SSL to
require TLS 1.2, mostly because it actually works. The result is that
vintage browsers return an error similar to ?cannot establish secure
connection?. Forcing SSL by refusing to connect on port 80, these sites
have locked out many vintage machines.
So, what can be done? The obvious solution is to find a modern browser
that runs on your vintage OS. This may require an OS upgrade (OS X 10.4
should run on the eMac) which allows running TenFourFox, which seems to
include TLS 1.2.
The irony that in the name of security, the machine used to invent the
web (NeXT) may no longer be able to display it.
Any thoughts?
Jim
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 07:21:13 -0500
From: David Gesswein <djg@pdp8online.com>
To: Jim Scheef via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org>
Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] www locks out older browsers
Message-ID: <20181112122112.GA20797@hugin2.pdp8online.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I assume you could run a local proxy that converts. It breaks the end
to end security though. Businesses use these proxys for monitoring.
On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 01:08:43AM -0500, Jim Scheef via vcf-midatlantic
wrote:
...
Hello all,
After playing with an eMac running OS X 10.3 several months back, I let
it sit for a few months. Now it can no longer open most common websites. So
what changed while the machine was not even plugged in? After some
investigation I realized that main-stream sites have changed their SSL to
require TLS 1.2, mostly because it actually works. The result is that
vintage browsers return an error similar to ???cannot establish secure
connection???. Forcing SSL by refusing to connect on port 80, these sites
have locked out many vintage machines.
So, what can be done? The obvious solution is to find a modern browser
that runs on your vintage OS. This may require an OS upgrade (OS X 10.4
should run on the eMac) which allows running TenFourFox, which seems to
include TLS 1.2.
The irony that in the name of security, the machine used to invent the
web (NeXT) may no longer be able to display it.
Any thoughts?
Jim
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 10:26:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Ethan O'Toole <telmnstr@757.org>
To: David Gesswein via vcf-midatlantic
        <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org>
Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] www locks out older browsers
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1811121026100.26294@users.757.org>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
...
...
The irony that in the name of security, the machine used to invent the
web (NeXT) may no longer be able to display it.
Maybe a proxy could be built that handles satisfying the TLS 1.2 then
unwraps it for the old systems.
- Ethan
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 11:16:53 -0500
From: "Jim Scheef" <js@sdf.org>
To: "'vcf-midatlantic'" <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org>
Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] www locks out older browsers
Message-ID: <003c01d47aa3$22f3adc0$68db0940$@sdf.org>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
David,
I first posed this question on the Vintage Apple Macintosh Enthusiasts
group
on FB. Jason Duerstock commented: "It's not trivial, but I believe you're
looking for something like this:
https://serverfault.com/questions/822453/proxy-server-accepting-tls-1-0-and-
calling-tls-1-2-downstream
<https://serverfault.com/questions/822453/proxy-server-accepting-tls-1-0-and-calling-tls-1-2-downstream>
Proxy server accepting TLS 1.0 and calling TLS
1.2 downstream"
The documentation
https://mitmproxy.readthedocs.io/en/v2.0.2/features/reverseproxy.html is
easier to read.
Seeing that we were quite happy using these sites without any encryption,
the loss of end to end security seems inconsequential.
The key words in Jason's comment were "It's not trivial..."
Jim
...
-----Original Message-----
From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces@lists.vcfed.org> On
Behalf
Of
David Gesswein via vcf-midatlantic
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 7:21 AM
To: Jim Scheef via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org>
Cc: David Gesswein <djg@pdp8online.com>
Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] www locks out older browsers
I assume you could run a local proxy that converts. It breaks the end to
end
security though. Businesses use these proxys for monitoring.
On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 01:08:43AM -0500, Jim Scheef via vcf-midatlantic
wrote:
...
Hello all,
After playing with an eMac running OS X 10.3 several months back, I let
it sit
for a few months. Now it can no longer open most common websites. So what
changed while the machine was not even plugged in? After some
investigation I
realized that main-stream sites have changed their SSL to require TLS
1.2,
mostly
because it actually works. The result is that vintage browsers return an
error
similar to ???cannot establish secure connection???. Forcing SSL by
refusing to
connect on port 80, these sites have locked out many vintage machines.
So, what can be done? The obvious solution is to find a modern browser
that
runs on your vintage OS. This may require an OS upgrade (OS X 10.4 should
run
on the eMac) which allows running TenFourFox, which seems to include TLS
1.2.
The irony that in the name of security, the machine used to invent the
web
(NeXT) may no longer be able to display it.
Any thoughts?
Jim
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 11:25:41 -0500
From: Drew Notarnicola <drew.notarnicola@gmail.com>
To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org>
Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Hello Introduction
Message-ID:
        <CAPP9A8GC7wxkvCF=O=+
30Ek_jw0vjZ0-uNOL1i0057EA4YBN8g@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Hey Tom! Nice to see a new name around here.  I'm not a ham but I am a
Radio Shack Model 100 fan, so if you ever want to talk about those I'm your
guy!  What did you use yours for back in the day?
Drew
On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 11:04 AM Tom McNicholas via vcf-midatlantic <
vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
...
Evan suggested I post a hello and background  not sure of length or
detail
is the norm,,  so here goes
Retired a few years ago  but still on the board of directors after a 45
year stint with a local electronics manufacturing company doing DOD work.
during the 45 years did everything from testing, QA, engineering and
plant
manager  Prior to the 45 year stint was in the USAF working on VHF, UHF
and
teaching then a couple of DOD manufacturing companies working on  SSB
transmitters, Radar, Sonar and microwave.,
During the 70,s  at work  used the Apple II and later the Mac during the
80,ss and at that time started using the commodore 64 and Radio Shack 100
at home latter moving to the 128  and then  building IBM  clones from
parts
bought at computer shows. Now all I do is just buy them ,too many as per
my
wife. .
Presently have a small collection of vintage computers around 25 which I
am
sure is nothing compared to other members of the group. But  I am looking
forward to meeting others in the group who share my interest in vintage
computers.
My only other interests outside of family and grandchildren are short
wave
radio and occasional riding on my Can Am trike.
Regards
Tom McNicholas
Wall NJ
End of vcf-midatlantic Digest, Vol 6, Issue 12
**********************************************

Bill Degnan

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