Verizon contacts, Lucent 5ESS-2000 VCDX?
Not to change the subject, but I've heard that Verizon is retiring all of their 5ESS hardware. Anyone have any contacts at Verizon regarding surplus equipment / scrap? I think it would be cool to try to build a running 5ESS VCDX system with a minimum amount of POTS circuits (64?) and trunks and all that. Compact -48v DC power supplies, Sun 1u for the emulator thing... A home sized build that can be connected to shadytel or one of the online hobbyist phone networks. Also, I don't really know that much about them. I've been reading some of the manuals that Nokia (who bought Alcatel who bought Lucent who was AT&T or whatever) has online. The facebook Class 5 group -- someone said the switch mdoule itself will take nearly a full rack, so that is interesting. Wikipedia said 3 racks. The place I worked that I think had one, it was 11 or 12racks but I never saw inside them -- no one seemed to know anything about it. Any leads appreciated. - Ethan
On Wed, Oct 30, 2024 at 12:28 PM Ethan O'Toole via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Also, I don't really know that much about them. I've been reading some of the manuals that Nokia (who bought Alcatel who bought Lucent who was AT&T or whatever) has online. The facebook Class 5 group -- someone said the switch mdoule itself will take nearly a full rack, so that is interesting. Wikipedia said 3 racks. The place I worked that I think had one, it was 11 or 12racks but I never saw inside them -- no one seemed to know anything about it.
Yeah, you can get reasonably compact. When I worked in a telco lab we had a Nortel DMS-100 (a European competitor to the 5ESS), and it fit in a half rack. Any reason to think you need something as complicated as a 5ESS? There are plenty of older PBX solutions out there which would probably get the job done for such a small number of analog lines. Devin
Yeah, you can get reasonably compact. When I worked in a telco lab we had a Nortel DMS-100 (a European competitor to the 5ESS), and it fit in a half rack.
Oh wow! I toured a local telco in Chesapeake VA as a kid (a wild story in itself) and they were running on a Nortel DMS-100. It wasn't small, but then again a lot of the size is the subscriber loop hardware that isn't needed for a minimal setup. There are a few of them in collector hands now!
Any reason to think you need something as complicated as a 5ESS? There are plenty of older PBX solutions out there which would probably get the job done for such a small number of analog lines.
It's the mountaintop! I've owned a Lucent Merlin Legend with Audix (several generations) systems and have a Parner or two (Thanks Jason!) but there is nothing more legendary than the 5ESS. The legend from Phrack magazine articles in the 90s. Plus if this is the window to do it, it's the window to do it if they are really heading to the scrappers. - Ethan
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 30, 2024, at 09:49, Ethan O'Toole via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Yeah, you can get reasonably compact. When I worked in a telco lab we had a Nortel DMS-100 (a European competitor to the 5ESS), and it fit in a half rack.
The DMS-100 was made by a Canadian company. Are you thinking EWSD or AXE-10 instead?
Oh wow! I toured a local telco in Chesapeake VA as a kid (a wild story in itself) and they were running on a Nortel DMS-100. It wasn't small, but then again a lot of the size is the subscriber loop hardware that isn't needed for a minimal setup. There are a few of them in collector hands now!
Any reason to think you need something as complicated as a 5ESS? There are plenty of older PBX solutions out there which would probably get the job done for such a small number of analog lines.
It's the mountaintop! I've owned a Lucent Merlin Legend with Audix (several generations) systems and have a Parner or two (Thanks Jason!) but there is nothing more legendary than the 5ESS. The legend from Phrack magazine articles in the 90s. Plus if this is the window to do it, it's the window to do it if they are really heading to the scrappers.
- Ethan
On Wed, Oct 30, 2024 at 12:55 PM Madeline Autumn-Rose <b4@gewt.net> wrote:
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 30, 2024, at 09:49, Ethan O'Toole via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Yeah, you can get reasonably compact. When I worked in a telco lab we had a Nortel DMS-100 (a European competitor to the 5ESS), and it fit in a half rack.
The DMS-100 was made by a Canadian company. Are you thinking EWSD or AXE-10 instead?
Sorry, I was overly vague. Yes, Nortel was a Canadian company. I just meant that the DMS-100 was more popular in Europe as opposed to the US. Devin
On Wed, Oct 30, 2024 at 12:49 PM Ethan O'Toole <telmnstr@757.org> wrote:
It's the mountaintop! I've owned a Lucent Merlin Legend with Audix (several generations) systems and have a Parner or two (Thanks Jason!) but there is nothing more legendary than the 5ESS. The legend from Phrack magazine articles in the 90s. Plus if this is the window to do it, it's the window to do it if they are really heading to the scrappers.
That's cool. If you want to have a 5ESS so you can say you have a 5ESS, then I've got no problem with that. If it was just because you wanted *something* that met the requirement of allowing you to host a bunch of analog telco gear, then there are easier ways to go. Cheers, Devin
I want to say about 12 years ago, I helped infoage rescue a bunch of telephone gear, including a diagnostic rack from a 1ESS. Does that still exist somewhere? On Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 1:09 PM Devin Heitmueller via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 30, 2024 at 12:49 PM Ethan O'Toole <telmnstr@757.org> wrote:
It's the mountaintop! I've owned a Lucent Merlin Legend with Audix (several generations) systems and have a Parner or two (Thanks Jason!) but there is nothing more legendary than the 5ESS. The legend from Phrack magazine articles in the 90s. Plus if this is the window to do it, it's the window to do it if they are really heading to the scrappers.
That's cool. If you want to have a 5ESS so you can say you have a 5ESS, then I've got no problem with that. If it was just because you wanted *something* that met the requirement of allowing you to host a bunch of analog telco gear, then there are easier ways to go.
Cheers, Devin
I want to say about 12 years ago, I helped infoage rescue a bunch of telephone gear, including a diagnostic rack from a 1ESS. Does that still exist somewhere?
I thought I heard someone say someone donated a DMS-100 switch to Infoage as well? I seem to recall someone said at one time there was going to be a telcom museum at infoage but it dissolved? - Ethan
On Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 1:09 PM Devin Heitmueller via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 30, 2024 at 12:49 PM Ethan O'Toole <telmnstr@757.org> wrote:
It's the mountaintop! I've owned a Lucent Merlin Legend with Audix (several generations) systems and have a Parner or two (Thanks Jason!) but there is nothing more legendary than the 5ESS. The legend from Phrack magazine articles in the 90s. Plus if this is the window to do it, it's the window to do it if they are really heading to the scrappers.
That's cool. If you want to have a 5ESS so you can say you have a 5ESS, then I've got no problem with that. If it was just because you wanted *something* that met the requirement of allowing you to host a bunch of analog telco gear, then there are easier ways to go.
Cheers, Devin
That's cool. If you want to have a 5ESS so you can say you have a 5ESS, then I've got no problem with that. If it was just because you wanted *something* that met the requirement of allowing you to host a bunch of analog telco gear, then there are easier ways to go. Cheers, Devin
Exactly! Nothing practical about it, but not much in this hobby is!! I would recommend Lucent Partner for ease of connecting modems, the ports on the unit enumerate easily without crazy reconfig and the handset ports are analog not digital on the common hardware. - Ethan
Hi Ethan, No contacts here (yet) but I share your aspiration to rescue something from the 5ESS family. Most of the local CO's in my area are running optical remotes, so getting a complete switch may not be realistic but even just a single cabinet would be awesome. If I make any useful connections I will keep you posted. Thanks! -----Original Message----- From: vcf-midatlantic [mailto:vcf-midatlantic-bounces@lists.vcfed.org] On Behalf Of Ethan O'Toole via vcf-midatlantic Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2024 12:28 PM To: vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org Cc: Ethan O'Toole <telmnstr@757.org> Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] Verizon contacts, Lucent 5ESS-2000 VCDX? Not to change the subject, but I've heard that Verizon is retiring all of their 5ESS hardware. Anyone have any contacts at Verizon regarding surplus equipment / scrap? I think it would be cool to try to build a running 5ESS VCDX system with a minimum amount of POTS circuits (64?) and trunks and all that. Compact -48v DC power supplies, Sun 1u for the emulator thing... A home sized build that can be connected to shadytel or one of the online hobbyist phone networks. Also, I don't really know that much about them. I've been reading some of the manuals that Nokia (who bought Alcatel who bought Lucent who was AT&T or whatever) has online. The facebook Class 5 group -- someone said the switch mdoule itself will take nearly a full rack, so that is interesting. Wikipedia said 3 racks. The place I worked that I think had one, it was 11 or 12racks but I never saw inside them -- no one seemed to know anything about it. Any leads appreciated. - Ethan
Hi Ethan, No contacts here (yet) but I share your aspiration to rescue something from the 5ESS family. Most of the local CO's in my area are running optical remotes, so getting a complete switch may not be realistic but even just a single cabinet would be awesome. If I make any useful connections I will keep you posted. Thanks!
Awesome! Will share notes here as well! I reached out to the Verizon giving thing. A guy I know that works at Verizon in a support role says that as far as he knows they won't replace the 5ESS stuff they will run it till death. This is different from what I saw on redit, so... Still worth hunting in advance. - Ethan
-----Original Message----- From: vcf-midatlantic [mailto:vcf-midatlantic-bounces@lists.vcfed.org] On Behalf Of Ethan O'Toole via vcf-midatlantic Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2024 12:28 PM To: vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org Cc: Ethan O'Toole <telmnstr@757.org> Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] Verizon contacts, Lucent 5ESS-2000 VCDX?
Not to change the subject, but I've heard that Verizon is retiring all of their 5ESS hardware.
Anyone have any contacts at Verizon regarding surplus equipment / scrap?
I think it would be cool to try to build a running 5ESS VCDX system with a minimum amount of POTS circuits (64?) and trunks and all that. Compact -48v DC power supplies, Sun 1u for the emulator thing... A home sized build that can be connected to shadytel or one of the online hobbyist phone networks.
Also, I don't really know that much about them. I've been reading some of the manuals that Nokia (who bought Alcatel who bought Lucent who was AT&T or whatever) has online. The facebook Class 5 group -- someone said the switch mdoule itself will take nearly a full rack, so that is interesting. Wikipedia said 3 racks. The place I worked that I think had one, it was 11 or 12racks but I never saw inside them -- no one seemed to know anything about it.
Any leads appreciated.
- Ethan
Ethan, Even the VCDX variant has some pretty intense power and cooling requirements If it's headed to InfoAge, that needs to cleared with Management / Wall Township, and space dedicated for the switch and support hardware Martin On 10/30/2024 12:28 PM, Ethan O'Toole via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Not to change the subject, but I've heard that Verizon is retiring all of their 5ESS hardware.
Anyone have any contacts at Verizon regarding surplus equipment / scrap?
I think it would be cool to try to build a running 5ESS VCDX system with a minimum amount of POTS circuits (64?) and trunks and all that. Compact -48v DC power supplies, Sun 1u for the emulator thing... A home sized build that can be connected to shadytel or one of the online hobbyist phone networks.
Also, I don't really know that much about them. I've been reading some of the manuals that Nokia (who bought Alcatel who bought Lucent who was AT&T or whatever) has online. The facebook Class 5 group -- someone said the switch mdoule itself will take nearly a full rack, so that is interesting. Wikipedia said 3 racks. The place I worked that I think had one, it was 11 or 12racks but I never saw inside them -- no one seemed to know anything about it.
Any leads appreciated.
- Ethan
I don't think they use that much power, I seem to recall telcos run them on batteries or something. On Wed, 30 Oct 2024, Martin A. Flynn via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Ethan,
Even the VCDX variant has some pretty intense power and cooling requirements
If it's headed to InfoAge, that needs to cleared with Management / Wall Township, and space dedicated for the switch and support hardware
Martin
On 10/30/2024 12:28 PM, Ethan O'Toole via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Not to change the subject, but I've heard that Verizon is retiring all of their 5ESS hardware.
Anyone have any contacts at Verizon regarding surplus equipment / scrap?
I think it would be cool to try to build a running 5ESS VCDX system with a minimum amount of POTS circuits (64?) and trunks and all that. Compact -48v DC power supplies, Sun 1u for the emulator thing... A home sized build that can be connected to shadytel or one of the online hobbyist phone networks.
Also, I don't really know that much about them. I've been reading some of the manuals that Nokia (who bought Alcatel who bought Lucent who was AT&T or whatever) has online. The facebook Class 5 group -- someone said the switch mdoule itself will take nearly a full rack, so that is interesting. Wikipedia said 3 racks. The place I worked that I think had one, it was 11 or 12racks but I never saw inside them -- no one seemed to know anything about it.
Any leads appreciated.
- Ethan
Uhh...theres a 48V battery bank, usually in a battery room, sometimes containing hundreds of batteries, as what amounts to a UPS. Not exactly the same thing. ;) There is so much energy stored in those rooms that there are rules for tool tethering, etc. Every so often you'll see an area of a wall or rack that has a thin metal plating on it, the remains of a wrench that got dropped and was immediately vaporized. A 5ESS, even a small installation, is a many-hundreds-of-amps proposition. -Dave On November 4, 2024 2:59:37 PM Ethan O'Toole via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I don't think they use that much power, I seem to recall telcos run them on batteries or something.
On Wed, 30 Oct 2024, Martin A. Flynn via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Ethan,
Even the VCDX variant has some pretty intense power and cooling requirements
If it's headed to InfoAge, that needs to cleared with Management / Wall Township, and space dedicated for the switch and support hardware
Martin
On 10/30/2024 12:28 PM, Ethan O'Toole via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Not to change the subject, but I've heard that Verizon is retiring all of their 5ESS hardware.
Anyone have any contacts at Verizon regarding surplus equipment / scrap?
I think it would be cool to try to build a running 5ESS VCDX system with a minimum amount of POTS circuits (64?) and trunks and all that. Compact -48v DC power supplies, Sun 1u for the emulator thing... A home sized build that can be connected to shadytel or one of the online hobbyist phone networks.
Also, I don't really know that much about them. I've been reading some of the manuals that Nokia (who bought Alcatel who bought Lucent who was AT&T or whatever) has online. The facebook Class 5 group -- someone said the switch mdoule itself will take nearly a full rack, so that is interesting. Wikipedia said 3 racks. The place I worked that I think had one, it was 11 or 12racks but I never saw inside them -- no one seemed to know anything about it.
Any leads appreciated.
- Ethan
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On 11/4/24 15:07, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Uhh...theres a 48V battery bank, usually in a battery room, sometimes containing hundreds of batteries, as what amounts to a UPS. Not exactly the same thing. ;) There is so much energy stored in those rooms that there are rules for tool tethering, etc. Every so often you'll see an area of a wall or rack that has a thin metal plating on it, the remains of a wrench that got dropped and was immediately vaporized.
A 5ESS, even a small installation, is a many-hundreds-of-amps proposition.
I don't think he's every seen a CO 2V battery. ;-) I couldn't find photos that looked like the units had in the labs. They were huge, kind of scared me. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry kd2zrq@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies KD2ZRQ
When Infoage took the large donation from Verizon 12 years ago, one of the items was an unused central office backup battery in a 4 foot square wood crate. On the top of the crate was a glass jug with many gallons of sulfuric acid to flood the cell. The weight of the thing nearly tipped the forklift. On Mon, Nov 4, 2024, 3:28 PM Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 11/4/24 15:07, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Uhh...theres a 48V battery bank, usually in a battery room, sometimes
containing hundreds of batteries, as what amounts to a UPS. Not exactly the same thing. ;) There is so much energy stored in those rooms that there are rules for tool tethering, etc. Every so often you'll see an area of a wall or rack that has a thin metal plating on it, the remains of a wrench that got dropped and was immediately vaporized.
A 5ESS, even a small installation, is a many-hundreds-of-amps
proposition.
I don't think he's every seen a CO 2V battery. ;-)
I couldn't find photos that looked like the units had in the labs. They were huge, kind of scared me.
-- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry kd2zrq@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies KD2ZRQ
The last CO I did any work in, the C&W POP in Baltimore, had a battery room about 20x30 feet, filled with row after row of racks of those, from floor to ceiling. That battery bank had to have weighed in the dozens of tons. -Dave On 11/4/24 15:36, Joseph Giliberti via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
When Infoage took the large donation from Verizon 12 years ago, one of the items was an unused central office backup battery in a 4 foot square wood crate. On the top of the crate was a glass jug with many gallons of sulfuric acid to flood the cell. The weight of the thing nearly tipped the forklift.
On Mon, Nov 4, 2024, 3:28 PM Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 11/4/24 15:07, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Uhh...theres a 48V battery bank, usually in a battery room, sometimes
containing hundreds of batteries, as what amounts to a UPS. Not exactly the same thing. ;) There is so much energy stored in those rooms that there are rules for tool tethering, etc. Every so often you'll see an area of a wall or rack that has a thin metal plating on it, the remains of a wrench that got dropped and was immediately vaporized.
A 5ESS, even a small installation, is a many-hundreds-of-amps
proposition.
I don't think he's every seen a CO 2V battery. ;-)
I couldn't find photos that looked like the units had in the labs. They were huge, kind of scared me.
-- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry kd2zrq@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies KD2ZRQ
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On 11/4/2024 2:59 PM, Ethan O'Toole via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
I don't think they use that much power, I seem to recall telcos run them on batteries or something.
Quite the opposite, electronic switches use far more power than the old electromechanical switches did, or the newer packet switch replacements for them. This article is a bit dated (it has pictures of a 1AESS), but it includes some pictures of part of a CO battery plant at the bottom: https://www.montagar.com/~patj/phone-switches.htm There are a few phone collectors in recent years who have acquired 5ESS and DMS family (SL-100) hardware that I know of. It certainly is becoming a dream of many. The main challenge seems to be scaling them down. I know of one who got an SL-100 and even after consolidating it down to operate with as little equipment as possible, idled at around 3,000 watts if I remember right. It's in his garage and he only runs it when it's actively being used, due to the impact on the power bill. Not without its challenges, given it takes 30-60 minutes to boot up and load the firmware. There's some documentation I've read regarding power studies that Western Electric or AT&T did maybe 20-30 years ago and the switches and associated equipment consumed hundreds of thousands of watts in the analyses they did. Then again, they were serving almost 100,000 phone lines out of that office.
participants (9)
-
Dave McGuire -
Devin Heitmueller -
Ethan O'Toole -
Joseph Giliberti -
Madeline Autumn-Rose -
Martin A. Flynn -
N. Albert -
Neil Cherry -
W. Bryan Caudle