Starting to think I need a second computer monitor. My PC is 5 years old and only has the one VGA port (no DVI/HDMI), so do I need to get a video card? For those who've done it -- do you find it distracting to have your display spread across two screens? A priority is to spend as little as possible.
As a programmer/electronics guy, multi-monitors is pretty much the most productive thing ever. If you have only one video output you will need to buy a second video card. If you're going to plug in a non-4K display, it can be pretty much any old video card. If you're going 4K, which I highly recommend if you stare at the computer screen all day, you'll need to buy a card with DisplayPort (or whatever newer HDMI rev supports 4K) and explicit 4K support. I went with the cheapest short-length NVidia card at the time, I think it was around $80-100 from NewEgg. If you've never, ever used multi-monitor, I'd say start with just a basic cheapie LCD and graphics card, and upgrade to 4K if you really like it. 4K is *much* easier on the eyes, and yes the decent 4K displays cost $300-400, but like all decent displays, they're going to last longer than buying the cheapest 4K TV from China. Personally, I have a 24" Dell P2415Q, but I'd recommend going with the 27" P2715Q -- I thought 27" might be too low of a pixel density, having worked with 27" iMacs at a previous job, but it definitely would not be. Note that you're not limited to *two* monitors. A lot of people like three, with one or two in portrait mode. Portrait mode is really nice for viewing full PDF documents, datasheets, et c. Thanks, Jonathan On Thu, 19 May 2016 09:40:21 -0400 Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Starting to think I need a second computer monitor. My PC is 5 years old and only has the one VGA port (no DVI/HDMI), so do I need to get a video card? For those who've done it -- do you find it distracting to have your display spread across two screens? A priority is to spend as little as possible.
You can either just replace your existing video card with a dual headed one, or stuff another video card in there to drive the other monitor. Five years old is quite a bit newer than anything I have, so I'm not sure if you have PCI or PCI Express slots - figure out what kind you have, find another video card that fits in that sort of slot, and add it. Shouldn't cost much at all, especially since I know you aren't going to care about 3D graphics. Pretty much any video card will do. And, of course, you'll need another monitor. Used ones are pretty much free now. You can easily do this for less than the price of a case of beer. Having two monitors is really great - it lets you keep reference material and code on the screen at once, keep tabs on online conversations while doing other things, etc. Not distracting at all, if anything, it's less distracting, since you can keep work areas separate. Or, you can get around the whole video card problem entirely, and plug a VT100 terminal into the serial port, and use that as an extra console. If you spend as much time in the command line as I do, it's pretty much the same thing as having another monitor ;) -Ian On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 9:40 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Starting to think I need a second computer monitor. My PC is 5 years old and only has the one VGA port (no DVI/HDMI), so do I need to get a video card? For those who've done it -- do you find it distracting to have your display spread across two screens? A priority is to spend as little as possible.
Thanks for the info. Right now I use a 22" screen in portrait mode (because the main things I do are email, writing, and browsing) connected to the mobo's on-board VGA. Very low-frills. Looking to add a second screen of similar size. Never had more than one screen. The thought of a second screen came to me yesterday. I started working on a portable computing "bushy tree" which some prominent people have asked me to do for many years now. I made a spreadsheet to organize it. The spreadsheet is wide :) and it's hard to see the whole thing even when I put my screen into landscape mode. Had to zoom out to 70% at which point it's hard to read. My concern about two screens is the distraction factor. I already find it difficult to concentrate on stuff. If there were twice the info in front of me, then it probably wouldn't help! Ian, where are these nearly free monitors? :) Cheapest I'm seeing on NJ Craiglist are $50-$100.
On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Thanks for the info. Right now I use a 22" screen in portrait mode (because the main things I do are email, writing, and browsing) connected to the mobo's on-board VGA. Very low-frills. Looking to add a second screen of similar size. Never had more than one screen.
The thought of a second screen came to me yesterday. I started working on a portable computing "bushy tree" which some prominent people have asked me to do for many years now. I made a spreadsheet to organize it. The spreadsheet is wide :) and it's hard to see the whole thing even when I put my screen into landscape mode. Had to zoom out to 70% at which point it's hard to read.
My concern about two screens is the distraction factor. I already find it difficult to concentrate on stuff. If there were twice the info in front of me, then it probably wouldn't help!
Ian, where are these nearly free monitors? :) Cheapest I'm seeing on NJ Craiglist are $50-$100.
Open your machine to see what slots are available, then go to the local PC repair place and ask for a used video card that will fit the slot (take picture if you need to). they'll have them for next to nothing/give away. May also have a used Dell 15" monitor you can park next to your 22" as a complementary display. I can't program without two monitors. -- @ BillDeg: Web: vintagecomputer.net Twitter: @billdeg <https://twitter.com/billdeg> Youtube: @billdeg <https://www.youtube.com/user/billdeg> Unauthorized Bio <http://www.vintagecomputer.net/readme.cfm>
On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Ian, where are these nearly free monitors? :) Cheapest I'm seeing on NJ Craiglist are $50-$100.
Every other garage sale I go to seems to have an LCD monitor, keyboard, and mouse, but no computer. Usually on the order of ten years old - but sometimes quite a bit newer. I have seen several of those wide format monitors too. Don't think I've seen a single one priced more than $10 or $20. If I had a desire to switch to LCD monitors, there sure are a lot of them around. Found a nice Mitsubishi CRT for $5 though, so it's not been all LCDs. -Ian
Agreed. Garage sales are the way to go. I see them very often for the same prices that Ian does. On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Ian Primus via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Ian, where are these nearly free monitors? :) Cheapest I'm seeing on NJ Craiglist are $50-$100.
Every other garage sale I go to seems to have an LCD monitor, keyboard, and mouse, but no computer. Usually on the order of ten years old - but sometimes quite a bit newer. I have seen several of those wide format monitors too. Don't think I've seen a single one priced more than $10 or $20. If I had a desire to switch to LCD monitors, there sure are a lot of them around. Found a nice Mitsubishi CRT for $5 though, so it's not been all LCDs.
-Ian
I used to do it all the time. Summertime was a great time to find them. There is a goodwill in New Brunswick which might have them for sale used. I've been meaning to look into it, but want to make sure that they have monitors. On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 10:26 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Agreed. Garage sales are the way to go. I see them very often for the same
prices that Ian does.
Who has time to wander around garage sales?
The dump is another great spot to go. Electronics typically go in a separate pile because they’re hazardous. I can’t tell you how many wonderful monitors I’ve snagged out of the goody pile at the dump.
On May 19, 2016, at 10:24 AM, Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Agreed. Garage sales are the way to go. I see them very often for the same prices that Ian does.
On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Ian Primus via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Ian, where are these nearly free monitors? :) Cheapest I'm seeing on NJ Craiglist are $50-$100.
Every other garage sale I go to seems to have an LCD monitor, keyboard, and mouse, but no computer. Usually on the order of ten years old - but sometimes quite a bit newer. I have seen several of those wide format monitors too. Don't think I've seen a single one priced more than $10 or $20. If I had a desire to switch to LCD monitors, there sure are a lot of them around. Found a nice Mitsubishi CRT for $5 though, so it's not been all LCDs.
-Ian
Upon closed inspection, my computer has an HDMI port. Didn't notice it buried under tons of cables and USB ports.
If you already have 2 display ports just grab an HDMI to DVI adapter / cable, and find a display with DVI. No extra hardware needed. On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 10:25 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Upon closed inspection, my computer has an HDMI port. Didn't notice it buried under tons of cables and USB ports.
-- Jason Perkins 313 355 0085
An hour on a Saturday morning is all it takes. On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 10:26 AM, Jason Perkins via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
If you already have 2 display ports just grab an HDMI to DVI adapter / cable, and find a display with DVI. No extra hardware needed.
On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 10:25 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Upon closed inspection, my computer has an HDMI port. Didn't notice it buried under tons of cables and USB ports.
-- Jason Perkins 313 355 0085
On 05/19/2016 10:34 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
An hour on a Saturday morning is all it takes.
Because I'm too lazy for the above suggestion. :)
Looking for something comparable to my current screen (22").
Also, as Evan pointer out, Craigs list. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
I actually have 3 displays on my work and home machines. I find it helps my productivity a lot, you can say have a spreadsheet up in one monitor and another document open on the other (I usually have IRC open on the right monitor, I can't say that helps my distraction factor...) I would think a 5 year old PC would have PCI Express slots, which makes adding extra cards easy. -J On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 9:52 AM, Ian Primus via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
You can either just replace your existing video card with a dual headed one, or stuff another video card in there to drive the other monitor. Five years old is quite a bit newer than anything I have, so I'm not sure if you have PCI or PCI Express slots - figure out what kind you have, find another video card that fits in that sort of slot, and add it. Shouldn't cost much at all, especially since I know you aren't going to care about 3D graphics. Pretty much any video card will do.
And, of course, you'll need another monitor. Used ones are pretty much free now.
You can easily do this for less than the price of a case of beer.
Having two monitors is really great - it lets you keep reference material and code on the screen at once, keep tabs on online conversations while doing other things, etc. Not distracting at all, if anything, it's less distracting, since you can keep work areas separate.
Or, you can get around the whole video card problem entirely, and plug a VT100 terminal into the serial port, and use that as an extra console. If you spend as much time in the command line as I do, it's pretty much the same thing as having another monitor ;)
-Ian
On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 9:40 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Starting to think I need a second computer monitor. My PC is 5 years old and only has the one VGA port (no DVI/HDMI), so do I need to get a video card? For those who've done it -- do you find it distracting to have your display spread across two screens? A priority is to spend as little as possible.
-- Jason Perkins 313 355 0085
I use dual screens at work (and in a previous job used a three screen setup) and replaced a previous dual screen setup at home with an ultra widescreen monitor (21:9). However you do it, there's nothing distracting about extra screen real estate. With these types of setups I personally take advantage of Windows' standard window snap features, which work the same as on a regular single screen, just with however many more screens or real estate available. You typically still only work in one main program at a time for obvious reasons, but don't have to do as much switching windows (if at all) when referencing things since they're already visible. Since you're planning on dual monitors (preferably both 16:9), you can comfortably fit four portrait mode programs (if you want to get really fancy, you can take one of the four panels and have programs on the top and bottom as well). As I type this, I have Chrome open on one half of the left monitor with Word open on the other half. On the right monitor I have a PDF reference file I'm using for the Word document, and next to that is a To Do List from Evernote. I also echo the sentiments of others regarding resolution. I'd say 4K is unnecessary and expensive (and it's unlikely your PC would be able to drive it satisfactorily even with a good video card), but you'd want two 1920x1080 screens at minimum. Of course, the nice thing with a dual (or tri) monitor setup is that you can mix and match screens and resolutions without issue, although I personally like to match the two (or three) monitors as closely as possible, since significant color/contrast differences between panels can be a bit distracting/annoying. ======================================================== Bill Loguidice, Managing Director; Armchair Arcade, Inc. <http://www.armchairarcade.com> ======================================================== Authored Books <http://www.amazon.com/Bill-Loguidice/e/B001U7W3YS/ref=ntt_dp_epwbk_1> and Film <http://www.armchairarcade.com/film>; About me and other ways to get in touch <http://about.me/billloguidice> ======================================================== On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 9:40 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Starting to think I need a second computer monitor. My PC is 5 years old and only has the one VGA port (no DVI/HDMI), so do I need to get a video card? For those who've done it -- do you find it distracting to have your display spread across two screens? A priority is to spend as little as possible.
On 05/19/2016 10:20 AM, Bill Loguidice via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
... with however many more screens or real estate available. You typically still only work in one main program at a time for obvious reasons, but don't have to do as much switching windows (if at all) when referencing
I do a lot of testing (coding test tools, diagnostics, etc.) and find that I tend to run a lot more than 1 program at the same time. Multiple monitors is a great boon to that work. I have cli, dbs, viewers and logs scrolling all running at the same time. I really wish I could have a few more monitors. This is my home setup and my employer won't foot the bill. I hate going into the office where I'm limited to the laptop's monitor. I did this before the 4K monitors started so I just picked up an 32" HDTV to go with my 29" LCD. One this that does drive me mad is that my mouse sometimes gets "stuck in the corner" when going from the larger to the smaller monitor. Then I have to find the mouse and move it up or down. I lose the mouse often on my screen. Despite that one little annoyance. I love multiple monitors. I may break out my other LCDs and see what I can do. For now it's just the 2. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
On May 19, 2016, at 9:40 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Starting to think I need a second computer monitor. My PC is 5 years old and only has the one VGA port (no DVI/HDMI), so do I need to get a video card? For those who've done it -- do you find it distracting to have your display spread across two screens? A priority is to spend as little as possible.
Thrift shops/consignment shops. There's a food pantry/thrift shop/church down the road from me (and a couple others near by) that always have lcd monitors for sale for $10 to $50. Don't typically see too many 27+ inch models but lots of 15" to 20/22" ones on a regular basis. Quite often old computers and cables etc for $50 or less so spare cards/cables etc plus a working backup machine. Tony
On 05/19/2016 09:40 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Starting to think I need a second computer monitor. My PC is 5 years old and only has the one VGA port (no DVI/HDMI), so do I need to get a video card? For those who've done it -- do you find it distracting to have your display spread across two screens? A priority is to spend as little as possible.
I've nearly always used two or three displays on my desktop system, until fairly recently when I rearranged my main work area and moved to a single 24" display. That was pretty restrictive. After that, about a year ago I moved to a 42" 4K display. That finally gave me enough workspace, but more is always better. I'm getting closer to moving my lab to the new building, so I've been thinking about how my new desk arrangement will be set up, and I will probably either add another 4K display or at least a smaller "ancillary" display. The biggest issue adjusting to two displays is the "looking in the middle" problem. If they're placed symmetrically, and you're accustomed to looking at the middle of one display, well, you see the problem. So you're faced with either learning to split things in half and look back and forth, or have one "primary" display and a "secondary" off to one side. Of course that's not an issue if you do three. ;) More desktop real estate can be a tremendous productivity booster, whether you get it with more resolution and size on one display or from multiple displays. Either way, do it, and you'll likely immediately see the benefits. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
:) I’ve moved to four screens (three 24”, one 32”) on arms ranged around and across the far edge of the desk on arms. The two right screens are hooked to my main workstation, the two left screens are hooked to a Windows box and switch to a MorphOS box and a server that are tucked away on secondary ports. I have Synergy installed (amazing) that lets me move my mouse all the way from the far right of my desk to my far left and the keyboard follows it. :) Life is good (and largely wire free)
On May 19, 2016, at 1:13 PM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On 05/19/2016 09:40 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Starting to think I need a second computer monitor. My PC is 5 years old and only has the one VGA port (no DVI/HDMI), so do I need to get a video card? For those who've done it -- do you find it distracting to have your display spread across two screens? A priority is to spend as little as possible.
I've nearly always used two or three displays on my desktop system, until fairly recently when I rearranged my main work area and moved to a single 24" display. That was pretty restrictive. After that, about a year ago I moved to a 42" 4K display. That finally gave me enough workspace, but more is always better. I'm getting closer to moving my lab to the new building, so I've been thinking about how my new desk arrangement will be set up, and I will probably either add another 4K display or at least a smaller "ancillary" display.
The biggest issue adjusting to two displays is the "looking in the middle" problem. If they're placed symmetrically, and you're accustomed to looking at the middle of one display, well, you see the problem. So you're faced with either learning to split things in half and look back and forth, or have one "primary" display and a "secondary" off to one side.
Of course that's not an issue if you do three. ;)
More desktop real estate can be a tremendous productivity booster, whether you get it with more resolution and size on one display or from multiple displays. Either way, do it, and you'll likely immediately see the benefits.
-Dave
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
My desk is always a mess, but I don't think I could go back to having just 2 screens :) https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Nu4lsGqpHew/Vz31XYVv8CI/AAAAAAAAJ_Y/j8KyQ... -J On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 1:17 PM, David Hoelzer via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
:) I’ve moved to four screens (three 24”, one 32”) on arms ranged around and across the far edge of the desk on arms. The two right screens are hooked to my main workstation, the two left screens are hooked to a Windows box and switch to a MorphOS box and a server that are tucked away on secondary ports. I have Synergy installed (amazing) that lets me move my mouse all the way from the far right of my desk to my far left and the keyboard follows it. :)
Life is good (and largely wire free)
On May 19, 2016, at 1:13 PM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On 05/19/2016 09:40 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Starting to think I need a second computer monitor. My PC is 5 years old and only has the one VGA port (no DVI/HDMI), so do I need to get a video card? For those who've done it -- do you find it distracting to have your display spread across two screens? A priority is to spend as little as possible.
I've nearly always used two or three displays on my desktop system, until fairly recently when I rearranged my main work area and moved to a single 24" display. That was pretty restrictive. After that, about a year ago I moved to a 42" 4K display. That finally gave me enough workspace, but more is always better. I'm getting closer to moving my lab to the new building, so I've been thinking about how my new desk arrangement will be set up, and I will probably either add another 4K display or at least a smaller "ancillary" display.
The biggest issue adjusting to two displays is the "looking in the middle" problem. If they're placed symmetrically, and you're accustomed to looking at the middle of one display, well, you see the problem. So you're faced with either learning to split things in half and look back and forth, or have one "primary" display and a "secondary" off to one side.
Of course that's not an issue if you do three. ;)
More desktop real estate can be a tremendous productivity booster, whether you get it with more resolution and size on one display or from multiple displays. Either way, do it, and you'll likely immediately see the benefits.
-Dave
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
-- Jason Perkins 313 355 0085
On May 19, 2016, at 1:19 PM, Jason Perkins via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
My desk is always a mess, but I don't think I could go back to having just 2 screens :)
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Nu4lsGqpHew/Vz31XYVv8CI/AAAAAAAAJ_Y/j8KyQ...
You call that a mess? I think FEMA needs to get involved with my desk. - Dave
On 05/19/2016 01:21 PM, David Riley via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
My desk is always a mess, but I don't think I could go back to having just 2 screens :)
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Nu4lsGqpHew/Vz31XYVv8CI/AAAAAAAAJ_Y/j8KyQ...
You call that a mess? I think FEMA needs to get involved with my desk.
Yeah I was gonna say. That's damn near surgically clean. I'll take a pic of mine when I get over to the other building. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On May 19, 2016, at 1:13 PM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On 05/19/2016 09:40 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote: Starting to think I need a second computer monitor. My PC is 5 years old and only has the one VGA port (no DVI/HDMI), so do I need to get a video card? For those who've done it -- do you find it distracting to have your display spread across two screens? A priority is to spend as little as possible.
I've nearly always used two or three displays on my desktop system, until fairly recently when I rearranged my main work area and moved to a single 24" display. That was pretty restrictive. After that, about a year ago I moved to a 42" 4K display. That finally gave me enough workspace, but more is always better. I'm getting closer to moving my lab to the new building, so I've been thinking about how my new desk arrangement will be set up, and I will probably either add another 4K display or at least a smaller "ancillary" display.
The biggest issue adjusting to two displays is the "looking in the middle" problem. If they're placed symmetrically, and you're accustomed to looking at the middle of one display, well, you see the problem. So you're faced with either learning to split things in half and look back and forth, or have one "primary" display and a "secondary" off to one side.
Of course that's not an issue if you do three. ;)
More desktop real estate can be a tremendous productivity booster, whether you get it with more resolution and size on one display or from multiple displays. Either way, do it, and you'll likely immediately see the benefits.
-Dave
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
Evan, take a look at www.n2mo.org. You could replicate the workstation setup for cheap (less than $125) It's configured for dual DVI output on HP LA2405wg monitors. Martin
Thanks everyone for explaining what needs to be done. Sounds like the easiest option is for me to acquire a screen with an HDMI input. No need to continue the "mine is bigger than yours" part of this thread. :)
On May 19, 2016, at 2:07 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Thanks everyone for explaining what needs to be done. Sounds like the easiest option is for me to acquire a screen with an HDMI input.
Or DVI; remember, they're electrically compatible, so all you need is the $3 adaptor from any electronics store. I only bring it back up because you're more likely to find cheap used monitors with DVI, so just know that they're compatible. - Dave
Thanks everyone for explaining what needs to be done. Sounds like the easiest option is for me to acquire a screen with an HDMI input.
Or DVI; remember, they're electrically compatible, so all you need is the $3 adaptor from any electronics store. I only bring it back up because you're more likely to find cheap used monitors with DVI, so just know that they're compatible.
Okay, thanks.
participants (14)
-
Bill Loguidice -
Dave McGuire -
David Hoelzer -
David Riley -
Dean Notarnicola -
Evan Koblentz -
Ian Primus -
Jason Perkins -
Jeffrey Brace -
Martin Flynn -
Neil Cherry -
Systems Glitch -
Tony Bogan -
william degnan