Let's add value to the club, and have fun doing it!!!
Here is a list of things that I feel the Vintage Computer Federation can do to add value to their name, and to add value for their members. Add Value to their name: Offer grading services to their members for their vintage equipment. As well as grading our own equipment in the library and coming up with standards for grading for vintage systems. Have members in various areas do membership drives at various events (Hamfests/Electronic Shows/Other computer club meetings/Etc.) While as far as I know, we don’t charge a membership fee, maybe we should look into other ways to fund club activities, or to be able to purchase parts we need to repair machines, so they can be kept as close to original as possible. Since we’re doing educational activities, if anyone has experience in applying for grants, that’s one route we could explore. Find additional organizations to solicit donations from either in the form of funds or equipment or services. I would recommend contacting companies that have been in business for many years, from Verizon, ATT, Lockheed, Sperry, IBM, as well as school districts, etc. Have a “portable” museum. Lets be honest, besides a few people who live close to central NJ or the shore, most of our members travel at least an hour. But this isn’t about us, it’s about our NAME and getting it out there. If we took a small trailer/mobile home, either attached to decent generators, or to connect to a couple power lines at the site when we would get where we’re going. No, we likely wouldn’t be hauling big-iron around in it, but if we brought around a trailer of the PC’s of the 80’s to various schools, scout meetings, etc. We would be educating the young, spreading our name, and having a hell of a time doing it. Add Value for their members: Offer FREE (not Ad supported) webpages to members to show off their vintage collections Offer online social network (or member’s only/private group on Facebook) Offer online/web based emulation of many vintage systems with demos and programs to help introduce millennials to vintage computing. Replace/update the mail-list to one with a web-based interface. I feel like we took a HUGE step backwards Have an members only auction/sales site I’m sure other there are plenty of other things that people would come up with, and likely these are things that would come up in more of a board/key-business type meeting. But I felt it’s important to bring up now that we’re a legal NPO as opposed to just a “club” of hobbyists.
My two cents: Fundraising and "portable" museum activities are great, albeit very time consuming. I think it's enough of a challenge for current volunteers to find the bandwidth to take care of the museum and current activities as it is. Not to say more can't be done, but it requires time. The debate about mail list vs. web interface can go on, but IIRC there were solid reasons for going with this format vs. web. I disagree with the grading services and members only auctions sites. Even though sales occur here on an ad-hoc basis, it is kept casual and friendly. While many of us happen to collect, I feel that offering grading and sales services could turn to the wrong direction toward profiteering and away from the spirit of education and preservation, which I feel is one of the best things about this group. I've seen this turn ugly too many times and there's really no need for it. There are plenty of outside resources for selling, and a nice sale that goes on at VCFe that benefits the museum. On Sat, Dec 26, 2015 at 10:24 AM, Joseph Oprysko via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Here is a list of things that I feel the Vintage Computer Federation can do to add value to their name, and to add value for their members.
Add Value to their name: Offer grading services to their members for their vintage equipment. As well as grading our own equipment in the library and coming up with standards for grading for vintage systems.
Have members in various areas do membership drives at various events (Hamfests/Electronic Shows/Other computer club meetings/Etc.)
While as far as I know, we don’t charge a membership fee, maybe we should look into other ways to fund club activities, or to be able to purchase parts we need to repair machines, so they can be kept as close to original as possible. Since we’re doing educational activities, if anyone has experience in applying for grants, that’s one route we could explore.
Find additional organizations to solicit donations from either in the form of funds or equipment or services. I would recommend contacting companies that have been in business for many years, from Verizon, ATT, Lockheed, Sperry, IBM, as well as school districts, etc.
Have a “portable” museum. Lets be honest, besides a few people who live close to central NJ or the shore, most of our members travel at least an hour. But this isn’t about us, it’s about our NAME and getting it out there. If we took a small trailer/mobile home, either attached to decent generators, or to connect to a couple power lines at the site when we would get where we’re going. No, we likely wouldn’t be hauling big-iron around in it, but if we brought around a trailer of the PC’s of the 80’s to various schools, scout meetings, etc. We would be educating the young, spreading our name, and having a hell of a time doing it.
Add Value for their members: Offer FREE (not Ad supported) webpages to members to show off their vintage collections
Offer online social network (or member’s only/private group on Facebook)
Offer online/web based emulation of many vintage systems with demos and programs to help introduce millennials to vintage computing.
Replace/update the mail-list to one with a web-based interface. I feel like we took a HUGE step backwards
Have an members only auction/sales site
I’m sure other there are plenty of other things that people would come up with, and likely these are things that would come up in more of a board/key-business type meeting. But I felt it’s important to bring up now that we’re a legal NPO as opposed to just a “club” of hobbyists.
Offer online social network (or member’s only/private group on Facebook)
I strongly disagree with the Facebook idea. For one, I am one of those curmudgeons who is not on Facebook, and never intends to be on Facebook, so this idea is dead to me. Secondly, don’t we have the Vintage Computer Forums? I think that is the best social network that we could have, and it’s already there.
Replace/update the mail-list to one with a web-based interface. I feel like we took a HUGE step backwards
Again, I believe this is already in place with the VCF. Perhaps some adjustments could be made, but I think the VCF is the best gathering place that we could devise. Just my two cents worth… smp -- Stephen M. Pereira Bedford, NH 03110 KB1SXE
I am one of those curmudgeons who is not on Facebook, and never intends to be on Facebook, so this idea is dead to me
Heh ... well if you ever change your mind, we're already at facebook.com/vcfederation ... we're also at twitter.com/vcfederation ... but if you don't like the former........ :)
Offer online social network (or member’s only/private group on Facebook)
I strongly disagree with the Facebook idea. For one, I am one of those curmudgeons who is not on Facebook, and never intends to be on Facebook, so this idea is dead to me. Secondly, don’t we have the Vintage Computer Forums? I think that is the best social network that we could have, and it’s already there.
The problem with many forums and especially the Vintage Forums is that you have to visit them to see new posts and there is no decent mobile client. I do visit the Vintage Forums but miss out on many others Atari, Mercedes-Benz, 3D-Printing to name but a few, as these all require explicit visits to see posts. I really don't understand why Forums are better than UseNet news. For me the big advantage of Facebook is that I can see everything on one page, and of course VCF is there. If you want to attract new members then I believe you need to be on Facebook.
Replace/update the mail-list to one with a web-based interface. I feel like we took a HUGE step backwards
Again, I believe this is already in place with the VCF. Perhaps some adjustments could be made, but I think the VCF is the best gathering place that we could devise.
There is no Mail interface to VCF for me a bigger step backwards....
Just my two cents worth…
smp -- Stephen M. Pereira Bedford, NH 03110 KB1SXE
Dave G4UGM
f you want to attract new members then I believe you need to be on Facebook
We are on Facebook (and Twitter). It's configured as a page, not as a discussion group. Joe is proposing that we have a group instead. We'll consider that, but I am leery of watering down our social presence.
On 12/26/2015 01:40 PM, Dave Wade via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
The problem with many forums and especially the Vintage Forums is that you have to visit them to see new posts and there is no decent mobile client. I do visit the Vintage Forums but miss out on many others Atari, Mercedes-Benz, 3D-Printing to name but a few, as these all require explicit visits to see posts. I really don't understand why Forums are better than UseNet news.
I think the root of this issue is the type of activity "using the Internet" is for different groups of people. For those people for whom getting online is a form of recreation, having time to burn, the "Oh, I'll go check over there and see what's going on!" type of "polling" system can work well as a leisure-time activity. But for those of us who work in front of a screen, the interrupt-driven nature of a mailing list tends to be a lot more efficient. I've thought about this a lot over the years, as I try to decipher the inexplicable mentality of the "Turn everything on the Internet into a WEB PAGE!!" people, and that's the best theory I've been able to come up with. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On 12/26/2015 1:13 PM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
I think the root of this issue is the type of activity "using the Internet" is for different groups of people. This is exactly it. In my opinion, having different interfaces to the same information/list would be great. If the goals are to have the most participation and active membership, having different methods to communicate is best. One of the benefits of Yahoo groups was there was a web interface and options for the mailing list. I understand it's debatable how usable either was, but the idea was there. Absolutes of one or the other just limits use for someone.
With that said though, as mentioned, there are ways to have a web forum also be a mailing list, etc. Think about it in another sense, the way mainframes are used today still, some people prefer to have the terminal directly to it for efficiency, others will interface a web UI to input/output data via a pretty mobile friendly form, or even have modern APIs translate to it. In the end, the core information is still in one place and can be used by many methods.
On 12/26/2015 11:13 AM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On 12/26/2015 01:40 PM, Dave Wade via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
The problem with many forums and especially the Vintage Forums is that you have to visit them to see new posts and there is no decent mobile client. I do visit the Vintage Forums but miss out on many others Atari, Mercedes-Benz, 3D-Printing to name but a few, as these all require explicit visits to see posts. I really don't understand why Forums are better than UseNet news. I think the root of this issue is the type of activity "using the Internet" is for different groups of people. For those people for whom getting online is a form of recreation, having time to burn, the "Oh, I'll go check over there and see what's going on!" type of "polling" system can work well as a leisure-time activity. But for those of us who work in front of a screen, the interrupt-driven nature of a mailing list tends to be a lot more efficient.
I've thought about this a lot over the years, as I try to decipher the inexplicable mentality of the "Turn everything on the Internet into a WEB PAGE!!" people, and that's the best theory I've been able to come up with.
-Dave
Dave, Speaking as a professional web guy, I couldn't agree with you more. If it doesn't land in my inbox it practically doesn't exist. Hell, I haven't even remembered to check comp.os.vms in like 6 months, and that's barely more involved than typing "slrn" in a terminal somewhere. The only argument for the "turn it into a webpage" mentality is because that's what the customers expect. Everyone has a web browser open 100% of the time, the web is the default graphic terminal of the modern age. In my organization, we have CLI and Web Interfaces to many for many of our services. The UI of the CLI is horrendous...The web interfaces were written by the CLI folks who couldn't understand why a web interface was needed. UI issues not withstanding, as I've been tasked with going through and updating tools, the web interfaces are getting the overhaul, the CLI tools are getting ignored. but I digress. That said there are a few web forums I visit, but I tend to miss a lot because I er...miss my polling interval due to high IO wait...er something. --Jason
On Sun, Dec 27, 2015 at 11:22 AM, Jason Howe via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On 12/26/2015 11:13 AM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On 12/26/2015 01:40 PM, Dave Wade via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
The problem with many forums and especially the Vintage Forums is that you have to visit them to see new posts and there is no decent mobile client. I do visit the Vintage Forums but miss out on many others Atari, Mercedes-Benz, 3D-Printing to name but a few, as these all require explicit visits to see posts. I really don't understand why Forums are better than UseNet news.
I think the root of this issue is the type of activity "using the Internet" is for different groups of people. For those people for whom getting online is a form of recreation, having time to burn, the "Oh, I'll go check over there and see what's going on!" type of "polling" system can work well as a leisure-time activity. But for those of us who work in front of a screen, the interrupt-driven nature of a mailing list tends to be a lot more efficient.
I've thought about this a lot over the years, as I try to decipher the inexplicable mentality of the "Turn everything on the Internet into a WEB PAGE!!" people, and that's the best theory I've been able to come up with.
-Dave
Dave,
Speaking as a professional web guy, I couldn't agree with you more. If it doesn't land in my inbox it practically doesn't exist. Hell, I haven't even remembered to check comp.os.vms in like 6 months, and that's barely more involved than typing "slrn" in a terminal somewhere. The only argument for the "turn it into a webpage" mentality is because that's what the customers expect. Everyone has a web browser open 100% of the time, the web is the default graphic terminal of the modern age. In my organization, we have CLI and Web Interfaces to many for many of our services. The UI of the CLI is horrendous...The web interfaces were written by the CLI folks who couldn't understand why a web interface was needed. UI issues not withstanding, as I've been tasked with going through and updating tools, the web interfaces are getting the overhaul, the CLI tools are getting ignored. but I digress.
That said there are a few web forums I visit, but I tend to miss a lot because I er...miss my polling interval due to high IO wait...er something.
--Jason
Who here visits every craigslist post when they can just write a keyword script to search for what they want directly? Same goes for any web service that has port 80 open for API / GET method. You can do the same for the web forums. Google et. al. is the most efficient way to find information. No substitute. Mailing lists seldom come up at the top of search rankings because they almost alway veer off of into un-related chit chat from the main topic/subject header. The search engines filter out spam pages by advertisers and mailing lists with "bait" topic headers. It's hard for Google to differentiate a legit mailing list from a spammers and that's why they do so poorly in a search. Even if you find a thread in a search it's a pain to find anything useful around the side comments and topic drift. Bottom/top posting makes it hard to find the beginning of thread, I just give up. I don't get why people find mailing lists useful for anything other than socializing and posing questions when you're lazy or can't search Google very well. It sometimes seems like some people ask questions because they know someone else will compulsively feel compelled to do your Google searching for them. I guess it's the nature of our species. The free rider problem in economics, etc. My point... As with many of you I do web searches all of the time on very specific vintage computer-related topics. Quite often searches lead to a post on the *vintage-computer.com <http://vintage-computer.com> forum *(and like forums) consistently. That's because there are a lot more tightly moderated threads. As far as vintage-computer.com/ forum I don't need to check every post or read the new ones to find this site useful. Who said you should? I don't have time to read every post, who does? I just search Google for what I need and review the linked page for what info it brings. vintage-computer.com often comes up on top and has "hey have to checked here?" links as well. The thread may be from 2009, or earlier. Info is just as good. I would never find my answers from the forum interface, web search is the ticket This mailing list is at best 10% technical, mostly it's chit chat, just like cctalk (wish they left cctalk and cctech separate). If not directly coming from a web search at least with vintage-computer.com I can jump to the forum section of interest to me and ignore the rest. For my modern work I use stackoverflow.com all of the time because it comes up most often in a search with useful code examples. I don't even know if they have a forum, I am not a member. I am sure they have some kind of forum or group participation system, I could only imagine how boring it would be. Does not matter. As with any forum I just jump from a search to the page I need. In short, if people visit vintage-computer.com/vcforum/ to ask and receive answers and only 2% of it is useful to me that's fantastic, as long as it comes up in a direct-link search. I don't need to visit every page to find value in forums as long as other like-minded people post there. And they do. We all benefit when knowledge is shared. I think you guys against the web forum approach should not get bent out of shape because the world has gone device-independent browser-based ! One of us One of us.... ...people find more value in the forum web method for communications, other than socializing, compared with mailing lists. Mailing lists for chit chat, forums for info, and places like archive.org and bitsavers for the docs. -- Bill
On Dec 27, 2015 1:55 PM, "Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic" < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
This mailing list is at best 10% technical, mostly it's chit chat, just like cctalk
I don't think that is a fair assessment. We have a WAY better
signal-to-noise ratio here. I am not pickung on this list, but you have to admit it's less sustantive than some other on-topic lists like SIMH's for example. We do stay on the topic as posed better than cctalk that is for sure, granted. Compared with vcforum this list is much more conversational, less technical.
On Dec 27, 2015 2:21 PM, "william degnan" <billdegnan@gmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 27, 2015 1:55 PM, "Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic" <
vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
This mailing list is at best 10% technical, mostly it's chit chat,
just
like cctalk
I don't think that is a fair assessment. We have a WAY better signal-to-noise ratio here.
I am not pickung on this list, but you have to admit it's less sustantive than some other on-topic lists like SIMH's for example. We do stay on the topic as posed better than cctalk that is for sure, granted.
Compared with vcforum this list is much more conversational, less technical.
I am saying we need both
On 12/27/2015 01:37 PM, william degnan via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
I think you guys against the web forum approach should not get bent out of shape because the world has gone device-independent browser-based !
WTF? "The world has gone.."? Ok, email is now obsolete, and all the world's a web page. Time to delete my mail clients. I'm glad someone finally let me know, as I surely wouldn't want to "get left behind" by the drooling masses who truly have control of my workflow. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On 12/27/2015 03:03 PM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Ok, email is now obsolete, and all the world's a web page. Time to delete my mail clients. I'm glad someone finally let me know, as I surely wouldn't want to "get left behind" by the drooling masses who truly have control of my workflow.
Hehe For the rest of us, too late. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
On 12/27/2015 3:03 PM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On 12/27/2015 01:37 PM, william degnan via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
I think you guys against the web forum approach should not get bent out of shape because the world has gone device-independent browser-based ! WTF? "The world has gone.."?
Ok, email is now obsolete, and all the world's a web page. Time to delete my mail clients. I'm glad someone finally let me know, as I surely wouldn't want to "get left behind" by the drooling masses who truly have control of my workflow.
-Dave
I'm 18 years old and I consider myself pretty up with the times of tech and I 100% agree with Dave. Web-based stuff is great for someone who has nothing better to do but if you want direct communication and don't have time for clicking around looking at other things, the only way to communicate and not get distracted is email. Email is not outdated, browser-based stuff is coming to fruition, but it is not 'taking over'. That's like saying a flash light is outdated because you can use your smartphone as one. Its not the same, one is a more direct solution and isn't as much as a hassle as the other. I use my phone as a flashlight, but only because I don't have a flashlight on me. Its much more annoying to fumble with and I would much rather use a real flashlight. -Connor K
On 12/27/2015 01:04 PM, Connor Krukosky via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
....That's like saying a flash light is outdated because you can use your smartphone as one. Its not the same, one is a more direct solution and isn't as much as a hassle as the other. I use my phone as a flashlight, but only because I don't have a flashlight on me. Its much more annoying to fumble with and I would much rather use a real flashlight.
-Connor K I am totally going to use this. Great Analogy!
--Jason
On Sun, Dec 27, 2015 at 4:08 PM, Jason Howe via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On 12/27/2015 01:04 PM, Connor Krukosky via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
....That's like saying a flash light is outdated because you can use your smartphone as one. Its not the same, one is a more direct solution and isn't as much as a hassle as the other. I use my phone as a flashlight, but only because I don't have a flashlight on me. Its much more annoying to fumble with and I would much rather use a real flashlight.
-Connor K
I am totally going to use this. Great Analogy!
--Jason
First of all you're not really understanding my point but a better analogy is to say you prefer to walk rather than drive a car because you don't like the people who drive cars. -- Bill
-----Original Message----- From: vcf-midatlantic [mailto:vcf-midatlantic- bounces@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org] On Behalf Of Jason Howe via vcf-midatlantic Sent: 27 December 2015 21:08 To: vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org Cc: Jason Howe <jason@smbfc.net> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Let's add value to the club, and have fun doing it!!!
On 12/27/2015 01:04 PM, Connor Krukosky via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
....That's like saying a flash light is outdated because you can use your smartphone as one. Its not the same, one is a more direct solution and isn't as much as a hassle as the other. I use my phone as a flashlight, but only because I don't have a flashlight on me. Its much more annoying to fumble with and I would much rather use a real flashlight.
-Connor K I am totally going to use this. Great Analogy!
--Jason
I am a total geek, BUT I took a flash light with me on my recent trip to India. Used it a couple of times as well. It works when then the SmartPhone battery is flat.... Dave G4UGM
Guys, It's awesome that the thread began as suggestions for new things the group could do. But a debate about flashlights? Please stop. This is why we're not Cctalk. :)
This is why we're not Cctalk. Didn't realize there was a competition.
There's not. But, our list has a pretty good history of conversations not devolving into cctalk mass-tangents, and we'd like to keep it that way.
On 12/28/2015 12:15 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
There's not. But, our list has a pretty good history of conversations not devolving into cctalk mass-tangents, and we'd like to keep it that way.
Overall, I would just like to recommend respecting any of the other hobbyist lists/groups/forums/members/etc out there, and avoid comparing or portraying in a negative manner. It can come off as hostile and it's the wrong language for collaboration. Thanks.
But we haven't even gotten started on replies go at the top or the bottom debate yet? :) j/k as you can see my preference... -Alan On 2015-12-28 01:15, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
This is why we're not Cctalk. Didn't realize there was a competition.
There's not. But, our list has a pretty good history of conversations not devolving into cctalk mass-tangents, and we'd like to keep it that way.
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 29, 2015, at 10:52 AM, Alan Hightower via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
But we haven't even gotten started on replies go at the top or the bottom debate yet? :) j/k as you can see my preference...
-Alan
I HATE bottom posting. So annoying to have to scroll past all the emails I have already read (in quoted text body of the current one) just to get to the current reply. I know what email I clicked on, I don't need to read the same stuff again (and again and again) However, I am trying as it seems to be preferred in this list (or at least those that prefer it are the most vocal! ;-) Tony
Gmail app on the iPhone collapses all previous replies by default, so reading bottom posts (and following the message thread) is easy. On Tuesday, December 29, 2015, Tony Bogan via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 29, 2015, at 10:52 AM, Alan Hightower via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org <javascript:;>> wrote:
But we haven't even gotten started on replies go at the top or the bottom debate yet? :) j/k as you can see my preference...
-Alan
I HATE bottom posting. So annoying to have to scroll past all the emails I have already read (in quoted text body of the current one) just to get to the current reply. I know what email I clicked on, I don't need to read the same stuff again (and again and again)
However, I am trying as it seems to be preferred in this list (or at least those that prefer it are the most vocal! ;-)
Tony
The mail app on iPhone does the same thing but one flick the wrong way opens them back up. Me having mitten fingers doesn't help! :-) Tony Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 29, 2015, at 11:06 AM, Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Gmail app on the iPhone collapses all previous replies by default, so reading bottom posts (and following the message thread) is easy.
On Tuesday, December 29, 2015, Tony Bogan via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 29, 2015, at 10:52 AM, Alan Hightower via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org <javascript:;>> wrote:
But we haven't even gotten started on replies go at the top or the bottom debate yet? :) j/k as you can see my preference...
-Alan
I HATE bottom posting. So annoying to have to scroll past all the emails I have already read (in quoted text body of the current one) just to get to the current reply. I know what email I clicked on, I don't need to read the same stuff again (and again and again)
However, I am trying as it seems to be preferred in this list (or at least those that prefer it are the most vocal! ;-)
Tony
On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Tony Bogan via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
I HATE bottom posting. So annoying to have to scroll past all the emails I have already read (in quoted text body of the current one) just to get to the current reply. I know what email I clicked on, I don't need to read the same stuff again (and again and again)
Christian Likes This.
I prefer to post an inline reply instead, as it provides the best method to directly answer the question/statement Speaking of threads, there's an old acronym, RTFT -- that's why they are there. So if you need the see dozens of copies of the same message in every post of a thread, I think that is biggest problem in and of itself. And 'snip/trim' is a wise habit to follow with regards to threads - loading pages n pages of the same message is utter nonsense. As for Top posts, which typically do not direct a specific answer to anyone's message, you can simply just as delete the whole body and post your message.
On 12/29/2015 12:18 PM, Dan Roganti via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
I prefer to post an inline reply instead, as it provides the best method . . . What Dan said. There... snipped and bottom posted. I'm in with the in crowd. I post where the in crowd posts. :) (What computers are from that songs era?!)
Some of these are very good suggestions. Others we're already working on behind the scenes. A few comments below...
Have members in various areas do membership drives at various events (Hamfests/Electronic Shows/Other computer club meetings/Etc.)
Bill Drom. suggested recently that we make a standard VCF business card and give everyone a stack for distribution to potential new members. We will probably do that soon. (The card will have contact info for the group itself, not for individual members.)
Since we’re doing educational activities, if anyone has experience in applying for grants, that’s one route we could explore.... contacting companies that have been in business for many years
This is the biggest fish. We are already working on it behind the scenes.
Have a “portable” museum.
It's not cost-effective for us to purchase, insure, and maintain a vehicle. For now our road-show focus is on having exhibits at other conferences. We already exhibit every year at the Trenton Computer Festival, World Maker Faire, and HOPE, along with various smaller events. Those events provide the most return for our effort/money.
Offer online social network (or member’s only/private group on Facebook)
We'll consider that.
Offer online/web based emulation of many vintage systems with demos and programs to help introduce millennials to vintage computing.
Already exists at Archive.org and many other places. No point in putting our resources toward reinventing it.
Replace/update the mail-list to one with a web-based interface. I feel like we took a HUGE step backwards
The vast majority of our members prefer the email list. Also keep in mind that using the list format is, by design, a tribute to what we do: preserve the past. However, there's a good chance that the VC Forum will soon have regional sub-forums. What I think ought to exist -- but I don’t know if it does, or if it's easy/hard to do -- is a way to automatically popular a regional forum with the contents of our list messages. Wouldn't that be neat? Every message on this list would automatically show up as a post in a VC Forum subcategory called Mid-Atlantic. Someone has to do the homework to find out how to execute that. It could also work in the other direction, but that might be more difficult because of the way forum replies function.
On 12/26/2015 01:14 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
The vast majority of our members prefer the email list. Also keep in mind that using the list format is, by design, a tribute to what we do: preserve the past.
Good grief, Evan. Mailing lists are no more about "the past" than is email itself. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On 12/26/2015 10:24 AM, Joseph Oprysko via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Replace/update the mail-list to one with a web-based interface. I feel like we took a HUGE step backwards
If this happens, I suspect we'll lose quite a bit of membership. (myself included) For efficiency, effectiveness, and manageability, getting out of the Yahoo! quagmire was a huge step *forward*. Keep in mind that this is a mailing list. It always has been a mailing list. The fact that Yahoo! has a web interface for the folks that think "all the world's a website" was incidental. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On Sat, 26 Dec 2015, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On 12/26/2015 10:24 AM, Joseph Oprysko via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Replace/update the mail-list to one with a web-based interface. I feel like we took a HUGE step backwards
If this happens, I suspect we'll lose quite a bit of membership. (myself included) For efficiency, effectiveness, and manageability, getting out of the Yahoo! quagmire was a huge step *forward*.
Keep in mind that this is a mailing list. It always has been a mailing list. The fact that Yahoo! has a web interface for the folks that think "all the world's a website" was incidental.
-Dave
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
One of the things I`d love to write in my spare time (ha!) is a webfora <-> email <-> nntp gateway. Moving the data around between different protocols is the easy part. Rationalizing the message threading and presenting a consistent view of such through all interfaces would probably drive me to drink. I'm a member of two organizations who I think would find value in such a tool...I can't imagine that the entire market for such a thing is 2, but probably. This is why it rolls around in my head as a pet project with no actual code written anywhere... -- Jason Sent from my Atari 800
On Dec 26, 2015, at 10:24 AM, Joseph Oprysko via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Replace/update the mail-list to one with a web-based interface. I feel like we took a HUGE step backwards
I don't understand this one I thought we were using mailman which I thought had a web interface by default usually at FQDN:/mailman/lists/list name Maybe ours doesn't now but it could. Ben
On 12/26/2015 02:31 PM, Ben Greenfield via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Replace/update the mail-list to one with a web-based interface. I feel like we took a HUGE step backwards
I don't understand this one I thought we were using mailman which I thought had a web interface by default usually at FQDN:/mailman/lists/list name
Maybe ours doesn't now but it could.>
Mailman has a web interface for configuration and for access to archives. What the OP is talking about is a web forum, which is a completely different thing. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
Mailman has a web interface for configuration and for access to archives. What the OP is talking about is a web forum, which is a completely different thing.
Right. Yahoo (and Google Groups) have a middle ground -- web interfaces in which you can create/reply to messages, not just view an archive. The reasons we stopped using Yahoo were administrative. Unfortunately that meant losing some features for people who prefered their web interface, however, there were only a few such people so we opted for a pure list + what's better admin-wise. Also, there's a great opportunity for someone to write very useful open-source code! :)
Has anybody looked into Disccourse (http://www.discourse.org)? The Dallas Makerspace had the same debate. Originally the DMS used Mailman. We tried to transition to a forum, which some liked because it kept all the content organized in searchable threads and was less punishing on the inbox. Most people continued to use the mailing list if they really wanted everyone to see a post, and many used both. Finally, the DMS found and installed Discourse. This has all the advantages of a forum, but much more flexible a format. It is web based and searchable, using tags (like Gmail) instead of subforums, which allows members more control over what they see. It has a seamless email interface, so members who never wish to use the web interface can continue to use it like a mailing list. And the web interface is really nice, with well though out design principles. You can see the Dallas Makerspace list in action at https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org if you want an example. Maybe it's worth a look. Happy New Year to all! Dave Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Mailman has a web interface for configuration and for access to archives. What the OP is talking about is a web forum, which is a completely different thing.
Right.
Yahoo (and Google Groups) have a middle ground -- web interfaces in which you can create/reply to messages, not just view an archive. The reasons we stopped using Yahoo were administrative. Unfortunately that meant losing some features for people who prefered their web interface, however, there were only a few such people so we opted for a pure list + what's better admin-wise.
Also, there's a great opportunity for someone to write very useful open-source code! :)
-- David Fenyes Greenum Electronics, LLC 700 Gateshead Court Southlake, TX 76092 email: dave@greenumelec.com phone: (469) 454-8346 cell: (214) 289-1407
participants (18)
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Alan Hightower -
Ben Greenfield -
Christian Liendo -
Connor Krukosky -
Dan Roganti -
Dave -
Dave McGuire -
Dave Wade -
Dean Notarnicola -
Douglas Crawford -
Evan Koblentz -
Jason Howe -
Joseph Oprysko -
Michael Lee -
Neil Cherry -
Stephen Pereira -
Tony Bogan -
william degnan