VCF East 2021 Pay Per View Recommendations
I'm thinking about making a pay-per-view option for VCF East 2021 which would stream the speakers live. There are many people who are overseas who can't come and others who can't attend in person in the US. I have two recommendations so far, but does any one have any recommendations? Thanks! ========================================= Jeff Brace Vice President & Board Member Vintage Computer Festival East Show-runner Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity http://www.vcfed.org/ jeffrey@vcfed.org
Okay, but why live? Why not some paid access to the recorded events? Time zones exist. Bruce NJ On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 10:20 PM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I'm thinking about making a pay-per-view option for VCF East 2021 which would stream the speakers live. There are many people who are overseas who can't come and others who can't attend in person in the US.
I have two recommendations so far, but does any one have any recommendations?
Thanks! ========================================= Jeff Brace Vice President & Board Member Vintage Computer Festival East Show-runner Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity http://www.vcfed.org/ jeffrey@vcfed.org
On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 10:34 PM Bruce via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Okay, but why live? Why not some paid access to the recorded events? Time
Because people want to see it *now* and we can perhaps allow Q & A from the online people. The paid live option is for people that don't want to wait. The recordings of the show will be released many weeks after the show for free on YouTube. We never really considered paying for access to those.
zones exist. Bruce NJ
On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 10:20 PM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I'm thinking about making a pay-per-view option for VCF East 2021 which would stream the speakers live. There are many people who are overseas who can't come and others who can't attend in person in the US.
I have two recommendations so far, but does any one have any recommendations?
Thanks! ========================================= Jeff Brace Vice President & Board Member Vintage Computer Festival East Show-runner Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity http://www.vcfed.org/ jeffrey@vcfed.org
I think this is a great fund-raising/support opportunity --not bad optics. You might be surprised at how many local people would take advantage of this. I have folks who work with me (here in NJ) that will still avoid any group activities due to health/Delta Variant concerns. I know that I'm not the main draw here, but I'd be happy to saddle up to a keyboard to do a virtual Q&A after my presentations. I may not be the only presenter to say that. It could be a value-added thing that lets those disinclined to attend still contribute and participate. Time is short, but maybe a "virtual ticket" to ALL talks via Zoom or another system may be easier. It would allow a resolution to this problem, and possibly create another level of attendance. PPV would be per-talk and only draw a small revenue in specific instances. On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 10:47 PM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 10:34 PM Bruce via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Okay, but why live? Why not some paid access to the recorded events? Time
Because people want to see it *now* and we can perhaps allow Q & A from the online people. The paid live option is for people that don't want to wait.
The recordings of the show will be released many weeks after the show for free on YouTube. We never really considered paying for access to those.
zones exist. Bruce NJ
On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 10:20 PM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I'm thinking about making a pay-per-view option for VCF East 2021 which would stream the speakers live. There are many people who are overseas who can't come and others who can't attend in person in the US.
I have two recommendations so far, but does any one have any recommendations?
Thanks! ========================================= Jeff Brace Vice President & Board Member Vintage Computer Festival East Show-runner Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity http://www.vcfed.org/ jeffrey@vcfed.org
On 9/21/2021 10:01 PM, ☼ wil lindsay ☼ via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
I think this is a great fund-raising/support opportunity --not bad optics. You might be surprised at how many local people would take advantage of this. I wouldn't be surprised, as I know a lot of folks would, for the specific reason you note below. Lots of folks are still skittish about traveling to group activities. I have folks who work with me (here in NJ) that will still avoid any group activities due to health/Delta Variant concerns. Exactly!
Again, I'm not suggesting it's a bad idea. And, I doubt the participants will complain, ala HOPE and K-Fest. That said, VCF East is the flagship VCF show, and I believe it, more than any of the other shows, bleeds into the mainstream. Maybe it's not important and/or maybe no one will cast the group in a negative light in the more mainstream areas of the media for doing a PPV. That's a rather big if, though. A few other things prompt my response, though I was hesitant to bring them up: * The production quality of the 2020 show was not that good. It was perfect for a free live show, but if you PPV it, I think the quality needs a marked improvement, and that's tough to do on such short notice. I went back and rewatched some of it the other day (to find the Mensch presentation), and the memory is fresh. I mean no disrespect, as it's a volunteer effort, etc. Still, if you charge, the expectations rise. * Do physical attendees to the show get a free pass to the live shows? If not, that's concerning, because someone of us use the live feeds to help with presence at the physical show. But, doing so makes for more work, and so I assume the answer to this is no. * It seems like a short runway to make this successful, given that the show is less than 3 weeks. Again, people will be fine with a best effort free live feed, but PPV folks will expect more. Have all the presenters been prepped for a live virtual feed so they can prep their materials to look best for both in person and virtual presentation? Split screen? Demo screens? I know if I were a presenter, I would not want to show up, do my regular prez, find out later it was part of a PPV feed, and then have the people who watched my prez complain that they could not see the materials because they were not optimized for the virtual feed. * Relatedly, are the big presenters OK with monetizing a virtual version of their presentations? Probably they are not, but I think they should be asked and have agreed before the show begins. I know Michael is touchy about his materials and their use (personal experience here). Again, I'm a fan of the idea in general, but there's a lot to consider, time is very short, and I am sure there are a half dozen more things I'm not thinking about that someone needs to consider. Jim
I can assure you there have been preparations in this area for months. I'm not sure you were in attendance for those meetings as you didn't volunteer, so you probably have not been in the loop. So please, you can always ask the organizers before you assume "short notice" and comments about the quality! -andy
On Sep 21, 2021, at 11:29 PM, RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I think the quality needs a marked improvement, and that's tough to do on such short notice.
On 9/22/2021 7:51 AM, Andrew Diller wrote:
I can assure you there have been preparations in this area for months. I'm not sure you were in attendance for those meetings as you didn't volunteer, so you probably have not been in the loop. I don't live in the general vicinity of the group, (Iowa), so no, I've not been in the loop. I was just responding to the post as it was sent via the public list.
So please, you can always ask the organizers before you assume "short notice" and comments about the quality!
I know Jeff just asked for recommendations on vendors to consider to offer the service, and so all of my comments are somewhat tangential. That said, a number of the responses seem overly defensive given the spirit in which I offered up the note of caution. I'm not on the advisory committee, board, any leadership position in the group. I do feel it important to participate in the group discussions and provide input as someone who is distant from the event, and I attend the event when possible, which is my reason for list subscription. I have no horse in this race. The potential concerns I raised will not affect me if they come to pass. Except for the possibility of getting access to the live feeds while I attend in person, I'm not sure I am affected in any way by this effort. And, I align with the concept in general, so I have no philosophical issues with the idea. And, as noted, Jeff didn't really ask a question about the desirability of PPV live feeds, so I perhaps should expect a worthy defense. But, it does temper my willingness to provide alternate perspectives. I mean no disrespect to the valiant volunteers who produce the show and the live and recorded material. As someone helping to produce similar material in the Midwest, I apologize for ruffling feathers. I can do no better in the areas I mention, which is why I hesitated to surface them. Jim
No ruffles, comments are always needed and appreciated. I wanted to assure you and everyone on this list that there has been a lot of planning in this space, we are not just jumping into this today. We are asking the list today for PPV/Streaming suggestions (in terms of who would use it) as we want to monetize any live streams produced this year. -andy
On Sep 22, 2021, at 9:32 AM, RETRO Innovations <go4retro@go4retro.com> wrote:
On 9/22/2021 7:51 AM, Andrew Diller wrote:
I can assure you there have been preparations in this area for months. I'm not sure you were in attendance for those meetings as you didn't volunteer, so you probably have not been in the loop. I don't live in the general vicinity of the group, (Iowa), so no, I've not been in the loop. I was just responding to the post as it was sent via the public list.
So please, you can always ask the organizers before you assume "short notice" and comments about the quality!
I know Jeff just asked for recommendations on vendors to consider to offer the service, and so all of my comments are somewhat tangential.
That said, a number of the responses seem overly defensive given the spirit in which I offered up the note of caution. I'm not on the advisory committee, board, any leadership position in the group. I do feel it important to participate in the group discussions and provide input as someone who is distant from the event, and I attend the event when possible, which is my reason for list subscription.
I have no horse in this race. The potential concerns I raised will not affect me if they come to pass. Except for the possibility of getting access to the live feeds while I attend in person, I'm not sure I am affected in any way by this effort. And, I align with the concept in general, so I have no philosophical issues with the idea.
And, as noted, Jeff didn't really ask a question about the desirability of PPV live feeds, so I perhaps should expect a worthy defense. But, it does temper my willingness to provide alternate perspectives.
I mean no disrespect to the valiant volunteers who produce the show and the live and recorded material. As someone helping to produce similar material in the Midwest, I apologize for ruffling feathers. I can do no better in the areas I mention, which is why I hesitated to surface them.
Jim
One reason I don't attend is the cost for travel, etc. I don't have a lot of disposable income at this point and would like to see the cost kept to a reasonable amount. I realize that "reasonable" might be different for each person, I just can't afford to spend $50 or $100 on PPV. That said, I don't know what price point/monetization target the organizers have in mind and I'm just putting those numbers out there as an example. I've really enjoyed the content over the years from several of the vintage computer festivals and conferences and would prefer to see the price kept low enough that a wide audience can still engage with the content. I appreciate the amount of work that everyone puts into these festivals and realize that there is definitely a cost associated with recording the sessions. Personally, I find the quality of the productions to be generally pretty good given that you're not going to hire a professional videographer for a relatively small venue geared towards hobbyists. Best, Brian. On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 9:56 AM Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
No ruffles, comments are always needed and appreciated. I wanted to assure you and everyone on this list that there has been a lot of planning in this space, we are not just jumping into this today. We are asking the list today for PPV/Streaming suggestions (in terms of who would use it) as we want to monetize any live streams produced this year.
-andy
On Sep 22, 2021, at 9:32 AM, RETRO Innovations <go4retro@go4retro.com> wrote:
On 9/22/2021 7:51 AM, Andrew Diller wrote:
I can assure you there have been preparations in this area for months. I'm not sure you were in attendance for those meetings as you didn't volunteer, so you probably have not been in the loop. I don't live in the general vicinity of the group, (Iowa), so no, I've not been in the loop. I was just responding to the post as it was sent via the public list.
So please, you can always ask the organizers before you assume "short notice" and comments about the quality!
I know Jeff just asked for recommendations on vendors to consider to offer the service, and so all of my comments are somewhat tangential.
That said, a number of the responses seem overly defensive given the spirit in which I offered up the note of caution. I'm not on the advisory committee, board, any leadership position in the group. I do feel it important to participate in the group discussions and provide input as someone who is distant from the event, and I attend the event when possible, which is my reason for list subscription.
I have no horse in this race. The potential concerns I raised will not affect me if they come to pass. Except for the possibility of getting access to the live feeds while I attend in person, I'm not sure I am affected in any way by this effort. And, I align with the concept in general, so I have no philosophical issues with the idea.
And, as noted, Jeff didn't really ask a question about the desirability of PPV live feeds, so I perhaps should expect a worthy defense. But, it does temper my willingness to provide alternate perspectives.
I mean no disrespect to the valiant volunteers who produce the show and the live and recorded material. As someone helping to produce similar material in the Midwest, I apologize for ruffling feathers. I can do no better in the areas I mention, which is why I hesitated to surface them.
Jim
On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 11:30 PM RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
A few other things prompt my response, though I was hesitant to bring them up:
I think any kind of constructive criticism would be welcomed by the show runners.
* The production quality of the 2020 show was not that good. It was perfect for a free live show, but if you PPV it, I think the quality needs a marked improvement, and that's tough to do on such short notice. I went back and rewatched some of it the other day (to find the Mensch presentation), and the memory is fresh. I mean no disrespect, as it's a volunteer effort, etc. Still, if you charge, the expectations rise.
I felt sort of the same way. While I believe the best was done under the circumstances, based on experience, resources, and constraints for a first ever endeavor of this kind for the event, it was done quite well. However, there is room for improvement. The one thing I noticed that seemed out of place was the bumper video between sessions. It seemed like it was selected in haste, and looked rather "neo-retro" than actual retro/vintage. The music and text activity just seemed out of place for the content it was tying together. I know we're only three weeks away, and another bumper video may have been selected or created by now, but if not, perhaps someone within earshot of this thread might want to flex their creative muscle and create a looping bumper video that fits the period of the content. Or maybe even representing the content, along with some period appropriate background music. It doesn't have to be fancy, but it would greatly complement the content if it better resembled the content. * Do physical attendees to the show get a free pass to the live
shows? If not, that's concerning, because someone of us use the live feeds to help with presence at the physical show. But, doing so makes for more work, and so I assume the answer to this is no.
I don't completely understand this. I don't see where a paid access stream mechanism wouldn't allow for free access tokens to be issued. So therefore, it shouldn't be a problem granting access for in person attendees, but with an access charge of $0. On the other hand, exhibitors and vendors would also classify as "physical attendees." My concern is if an exhibitor uses direct access to streaming content going on during show hours that they would be distracted from those visiting their exhibit while watching a stream. We do recommend that exhibitors provide full attention to their exhibit for the benefit of attendees. However, I think our exhibitors are professional enough to not be distracted like that. * It seems like a short runway to make this successful, given that the
show is less than 3 weeks. Again, people will be fine with a best effort free live feed, but PPV folks will expect more. Have all the presenters been prepped for a live virtual feed so they can prep their materials to look best for both in person and virtual presentation? Split screen? Demo screens? I know if I were a presenter, I would not want to show up, do my regular prez, find out later it was part of a PPV feed, and then have the people who watched my prez complain that they could not see the materials because they were not optimized for the virtual feed.
There is plenty of PPV content out there that's little more than someone flipping front/back cameras on their phones, yet people subscribe to it like they're buying their favorite candy. I think content trumps production quality with this venue. They used OBS last year for live streaming and I see no reason why they wouldn't, or couldn't, do that again this year. OBS has all sorts of capabilities to split and flip screens, but I don't think it's critical. I also don't see why, as a future option, any presenter couldn't learn to choreograph their own presentation to that level if they desired. * Relatedly, are the big presenters OK with monetizing a virtual
version of their presentations? Probably they are not, but I think they should be asked and have agreed before the show begins. I know Michael is touchy about his materials and their use (personal experience here).
This is a non-issue. Every exhibitor is presenting their content to physical attendees anyway. All we're doing with PPV is adding virtual attendees that will ALSO be paying. Any compensation that has been negotiated with "big presenters" was negotiated on the understanding that we won't have an exact count of attendees, so adding more attendees of any type shouldn't make any difference.
Exactly every VCF East festival is a paid event. The presenters _are monetized - that is the point to have presenters- to bring in more people who will buy tickets to make the show more successful (in many dimensions). -andy
On Sep 22, 2021, at 8:54 AM, Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
* Relatedly, are the big presenters OK with monetizing a virtual
version of their presentations? Probably they are not, but I think they should be asked and have agreed before the show begins. I know Michael is touchy about his materials and their use (personal experience here).
This is a non-issue. Every exhibitor is presenting their content to physical attendees anyway. All we're doing with PPV is adding virtual attendees that will ALSO be paying. Any compensation that has been negotiated with "big presenters" was negotiated on the understanding that we won't have an exact count of attendees, so adding more attendees of any type shouldn't make any difference.
I think a live PPV pass for all talks like previously suggested is a great idea. You could even take it one step beyond and perhaps do a bundle deal of sorts. Offer a pass for all the talks and throw in a VCF East 2021 shirt or other memorabilia for the cost of one days ticket plus a little extra. As someone who won’t likely be able to attend this year, something like that would be a great consolation. Not to mention allow participation from a wider audience.
On Sep 21, 2021, at 11:01 PM, ☼ wil lindsay ☼ via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I think this is a great fund-raising/support opportunity --not bad optics. You might be surprised at how many local people would take advantage of this. I have folks who work with me (here in NJ) that will still avoid any group activities due to health/Delta Variant concerns.
I know that I'm not the main draw here, but I'd be happy to saddle up to a keyboard to do a virtual Q&A after my presentations. I may not be the only presenter to say that. It could be a value-added thing that lets those disinclined to attend still contribute and participate.
Time is short, but maybe a "virtual ticket" to ALL talks via Zoom or another system may be easier. It would allow a resolution to this problem, and possibly create another level of attendance. PPV would be per-talk and only draw a small revenue in specific instances.
On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 10:47 PM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 10:34 PM Bruce via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Okay, but why live? Why not some paid access to the recorded events? Time
Because people want to see it *now* and we can perhaps allow Q & A from the online people. The paid live option is for people that don't want to wait.
The recordings of the show will be released many weeks after the show for free on YouTube. We never really considered paying for access to those.
zones exist. Bruce NJ
On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 10:20 PM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I'm thinking about making a pay-per-view option for VCF East 2021 which would stream the speakers live. There are many people who are overseas who can't come and others who can't attend in person in the US.
I have two recommendations so far, but does any one have any recommendations?
Thanks! ========================================= Jeff Brace Vice President & Board Member Vintage Computer Festival East Show-runner Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity http://www.vcfed.org/ jeffrey@vcfed.org
Fwiw I’d strongly prefer PPV due to covid and I always drive out there.. we just need a blur filter for any inadvertent showing of Commodore logos ;) More seriously - bonus points if it can be a corporate type deal where viewers can also submit questions.. On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 12:32 AM Joshua Abraham via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I think a live PPV pass for all talks like previously suggested is a great idea. You could even take it one step beyond and perhaps do a bundle deal of sorts. Offer a pass for all the talks and throw in a VCF East 2021 shirt or other memorabilia for the cost of one days ticket plus a little extra.
As someone who won’t likely be able to attend this year, something like that would be a great consolation. Not to mention allow participation from a wider audience.
On Sep 21, 2021, at 11:01 PM, ☼ wil lindsay ☼ via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I think this is a great fund-raising/support opportunity --not bad optics. You might be surprised at how many local people would take advantage of this. I have folks who work with me (here in NJ) that will still avoid any group activities due to health/Delta Variant concerns.
I know that I'm not the main draw here, but I'd be happy to saddle up to a keyboard to do a virtual Q&A after my presentations. I may not be the only presenter to say that. It could be a value-added thing that lets those disinclined to attend still contribute and participate.
Time is short, but maybe a "virtual ticket" to ALL talks via Zoom or another system may be easier. It would allow a resolution to this problem, and possibly create another level of attendance. PPV would be per-talk and only draw a small revenue in specific instances.
On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 10:47 PM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 10:34 PM Bruce via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Okay, but why live? Why not some paid access to the recorded events? Time
Because people want to see it *now* and we can perhaps allow Q & A from the online people. The paid live option is for people that don't want to wait.
The recordings of the show will be released many weeks after the show for free on YouTube. We never really considered paying for access to those.
zones exist. Bruce NJ
On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 10:20 PM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I'm thinking about making a pay-per-view option for VCF East 2021 which would stream the speakers live. There are many people who are overseas who can't come and others who can't attend in person in the US.
I have two recommendations so far, but does any one have any recommendations?
Thanks! ========================================= Jeff Brace Vice President & Board Member Vintage Computer Festival East Show-runner Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity http://www.vcfed.org/ jeffrey@vcfed.org
On 9/21/2021 9:19 PM, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
I'm thinking about making a pay-per-view option for VCF East 2021 which would stream the speakers live. There are many people who are overseas who can't come and others who can't attend in person in the US.
I have two recommendations so far, but does any one have any recommendations?
Thanks! ========================================= Jeff Brace Vice President & Board Member Vintage Computer Festival East Show-runner Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity http://www.vcfed.org/ jeffrey@vcfed.org
I think streaming the speakers live is a great idea, but can we make a recommendation that you not charge for it in 2021? If cost is the primary concern, I am sure some of us could donate to cover. It's not that I'm against PPV for this, but I think the optics look bad to pursue this in 2021. Jim -- RETRO Innovations, Contemporary Gear for Classic Systems www.go4retro.com store.go4retro.com
On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 10:44 PM RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 9/21/2021 9:19 PM, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
I'm thinking about making a pay-per-view option for VCF East 2021 which would stream the speakers live. There are many people who are overseas who can't come and others who can't attend in person in the US.
I have two recommendations so far, but does any one have any recommendations?
Thanks! ========================================= Jeff Brace Vice President & Board Member Vintage Computer Festival East Show-runner Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity http://www.vcfed.org/ jeffrey@vcfed.org
I think streaming the speakers live is a great idea, but can we make a recommendation that you not charge for it in 2021?
The whole reason that we are doing it is to see if we can generate additional revenue to cover the already expensive costs of the show. There are increased costs. Also last year we did a huge live streaming virtual show for free. So we have no revenue from last year to put towards this year's show. Also this year we are not charging for exhibitor tables, so more revenue lost *and* the cost of table rental went up.
If cost is the primary concern, I am sure some of us could donate to cover. It's not that I'm against PPV for this, but I think the optics look bad to pursue this in 2021.
As stated above we gave a huge amount of content for free during our virtual show. I don't feel it's worth the extra effort to live stream if it is for free. People don't value free things as much. This is also an experiment to see how successful a paid streaming will work for us. We already know that free virtual shows work well from last year. If you recall last year (2020) HOPE as well as K-Fest charged for their live streaming of their shows and I never heard anyone complain or even bat an eyelash about paying for access to those virtual shows.
Jim
-- RETRO Innovations, Contemporary Gear for Classic Systems www.go4retro.com store.go4retro.com
participants (9)
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Andrew Diller -
Brian Marstella -
Bruce -
Jeffrey Brace -
John Heritage -
Joshua Abraham -
jsalzman＠gmail.com -
RETRO Innovations -
☼ wil lindsay ☼