On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Would this help?
almost, that one has 6 outputs you need one with 10 outputs
On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 12:58 PM, Dan Roganti via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Would this help?
almost, that one has 6 outputs you need one with 10 outputs
Thought the C64 user port only had an 8-bit port. Where are the other two connected? The VIC has a few of the joystick port connected to the user port, but not sure what other outputs you can get out of the C64.
On 05/25/2016 01:47 PM, Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Would this help?
almost, that one has 6 outputs you need one with 10 outputs
Thought the C64 user port only had an 8-bit port. Where are the other two connected? The VIC has a few of the joystick port connected to the user port, but not sure what other outputs you can get out of the C64.
There's a zillion different ways to demultiplex parallel I/O lines. A degenerate case (but a valid one) is an I2C I/O expander, some of which can give you 32 I/O lines from just two. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
I knew that... ;-) On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 2:54 PM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On 05/25/2016 01:47 PM, Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Would this help?
almost, that one has 6 outputs you need one with 10 outputs
Thought the C64 user port only had an 8-bit port. Where are the other two connected? The VIC has a few of the joystick port connected to the user port, but not sure what other outputs you can get out of the C64.
There's a zillion different ways to demultiplex parallel I/O lines. A degenerate case (but a valid one) is an I2C I/O expander, some of which can give you 32 I/O lines from just two.
-Dave
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 12:58 PM, Dan Roganti via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Would this help?
almost, that one has 6 outputs you need one with 10 outputs
Thought the C64 user port only had an 8-bit port. Where are the other two connected? The VIC has a few of the joystick port connected to the user port, but not sure what other outputs you can get out of the C64.
The C64 cartridge board used a cmos 4028, 4bit BCD decoder [Binary Coded Decimal] which has 10 outputs. Even though the interface uses a 4bit binary number, the 4028 only converts the first 10 numbers, 0-9 This in turn drives each motor arranged in a bridge circuit inside the arm. There are 5 motors in the arm = base, shoulder, elbow, wrist, and gripper Each pair of outputs drive one motor The bridge circuit is wired for each motor with a split bipolar power supply using batteries, B+, Gnd, and B- Only one output on the 4028 is allowed to turn on As there is no protection against faulty data switching on both signals and causing a meltdown inside the arm Dan
On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 2:56 PM, Dan Roganti via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 12:58 PM, Dan Roganti via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Would this help?
almost, that one has 6 outputs you need one with 10 outputs
Thought the C64 user port only had an 8-bit port. Where are the other two connected? The VIC has a few of the joystick port connected to the user port, but not sure what other outputs you can get out of the C64.
The C64 cartridge board used a cmos 4028, 4bit BCD decoder [Binary Coded Decimal] which has 10 outputs. Even though the interface uses a 4bit binary number, the 4028 only converts the first 10 numbers, 0-9 This in turn drives each motor arranged in a bridge circuit inside the arm. There are 5 motors in the arm = base, shoulder, elbow, wrist, and gripper Each pair of outputs drive one motor The bridge circuit is wired for each motor with a split bipolar power supply using batteries, B+, Gnd, and B- Only one output on the 4028 is allowed to turn on As there is no protection against faulty data switching on both signals and causing a meltdown inside the arm Dan
OK. So only one output can be on at any one time with this setup? Kind of a 74141 without the high voltage? Funny thing, I Googled 4028 without any other text and the datasheet was the first search result.
Yes of course, as Dave said. Simplist is the '595, get 8 outputs from 2 control lines. Ubiquitous in the arduino world... https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13699 On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 3:16 PM, Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 2:56 PM, Dan Roganti via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 12:58 PM, Dan Roganti via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Would this help?
almost, that one has 6 outputs you need one with 10 outputs
Thought the C64 user port only had an 8-bit port. Where are the other two connected? The VIC has a few of the joystick port connected to the user port, but not sure what other outputs you can get out of the C64.
The C64 cartridge board used a cmos 4028, 4bit BCD decoder [Binary Coded Decimal] which has 10 outputs. Even though the interface uses a 4bit binary number, the 4028 only converts the first 10 numbers, 0-9 This in turn drives each motor arranged in a bridge circuit inside the arm. There are 5 motors in the arm = base, shoulder, elbow, wrist, and gripper Each pair of outputs drive one motor The bridge circuit is wired for each motor with a split bipolar power supply using batteries, B+, Gnd, and B- Only one output on the 4028 is allowed to turn on As there is no protection against faulty data switching on both signals and causing a meltdown inside the arm Dan
OK. So only one output can be on at any one time with this setup? Kind of a 74141 without the high voltage?
Funny thing, I Googled 4028 without any other text and the datasheet was the first search result.
On 05/25/2016 04:00 PM, Douglas Crawford via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Yes of course, as Dave said. Simplist is the '595, get 8 outputs from 2 control lines. Ubiquitous in the arduino world...
3 Pins with the '595 but with multiple '595's you can go nuts and get a lot more than 8 bits (used an 80251 with 4 '595s to drive 4 7-Segment LEDs). It's a 'Piece of Pie, easy as cake' (yes I know that's wrong). -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
Yes of course, 3 lines for '595: clock, data, latch. Forgot latch. Easy peasy. On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 5:05 PM, Tony Bogan via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
It's a 'Piece of Pie, easy as cake' (yes I know that's wrong).
2010, the year we make contact. :-)
FYI, a good deal on User port connectors, 10/$15 just picked up a bag other common places are price gouging you on this part. http://www.memotronics.com/commodore-pet-cbm-64-c64-sx64-128-vic20-user-port... Dan
On May 26, 2016, at 6:37 AM, Dan Roganti via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: FYI, a good deal on User port connectors, 10/$15 just picked up a bag other common places are price gouging you on this part. http://www.memotronics.com/commodore-pet-cbm-64-c64-sx64-128-vic20-user-port... Dan Agree. I have bought a few items from that place. Originally found it on eBay. Good service and prices. They also have a user port connector with a housing/strain relief: http://www.memotronics.com/c64-user-port-plug-with-housing-and-polarizing-ke...
On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 7:00 AM, chrisjpf33--- via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On May 26, 2016, at 6:37 AM, Dan Roganti via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
FYI, a good deal on User port connectors, 10/$15 just picked up a bag other common places are price gouging you on this part.
http://www.memotronics.com/commodore-pet-cbm-64-c64-sx64-128-vic20-user-port... Dan
Agree. I have bought a few items from that place. Originally found it on eBay. Good service and prices. They also have a user port connector with a housing/strain relief:
http://www.memotronics.com/c64-user-port-plug-with-housing-and-polarizing-ke...
would be nice to find a matching enclosure for this too have to keep searching Dan
You guys prefer the posts over the loops on the back of the connectors? On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 7:10 AM, Dan Roganti via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 7:00 AM, chrisjpf33--- via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On May 26, 2016, at 6:37 AM, Dan Roganti via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
FYI, a good deal on User port connectors, 10/$15 just picked up a bag other common places are price gouging you on this part.
http://www.memotronics.com/commodore-pet-cbm-64-c64-sx64-128-vic20-user-port...
Dan
Agree. I have bought a few items from that place. Originally found it on eBay. Good service and prices. They also have a user port connector with a housing/strain relief:
http://www.memotronics.com/c64-user-port-plug-with-housing-and-polarizing-ke...
would be nice to find a matching enclosure for this too have to keep searching Dan
On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 12:41 PM, Douglas Crawford via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
You guys prefer the posts over the loops on the back of the connectors?
On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 7:10 AM, Dan Roganti via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 7:00 AM, chrisjpf33--- via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On May 26, 2016, at 6:37 AM, Dan Roganti via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
FYI, a good deal on User port connectors, 10/$15 just picked up a bag other common places are price gouging you on this part.
http://www.memotronics.com/commodore-pet-cbm-64-c64-sx64-128-vic20-user-port...
Dan
Agree. I have bought a few items from that place. Originally found it on eBay. Good service and prices. They also have a user port connector with a housing/strain relief:
http://www.memotronics.com/c64-user-port-plug-with-housing-and-polarizing-ke...
would be nice to find a matching enclosure for this too have to keep searching Dan
I prefer the loops, helps to hold wires in place as you solder them. I imagine that if you need to solder to a circuit board, the posts would be better. Chris
On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 12:44 PM, Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 12:41 PM, Douglas Crawford via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
You guys prefer the posts over the loops on the back of the connectors?
I prefer the loops, helps to hold wires in place as you solder them. I imagine that if you need to solder to a circuit board, the posts would be better.
yea, I prefer posts when using a prototype board. When you have a double sided copper prototype board, you can use each row of pins as an anchor, one row soldered on top and the other row soldered on the bottom This helps make it rugged enough for a prototype Just as with DB connectors Now a right angle connector would be ideal, but you have to take what you can get sometimes with the supply. On the User Port enclosures, I think Hammond might have a good option, Looking there soon Dan
On 5/26/2016 5:37 AM, Dan Roganti via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
FYI, a good deal on User port connectors, 10/$15 just picked up a bag other common places are price gouging you on this part. http://www.memotronics.com/commodore-pet-cbm-64-c64-sx64-128-vic20-user-port... Dan
I hope I'm not considered a price gouger, but I have those in stock as well, and I think I can do $15.00/10 units. http://store.go4retro.com/pcb-edge-connector/ -- RETRO Innovations, Contemporary Gear for Classic Systems www.go4retro.com store.go4retro.com
On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 2:12 AM, RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On 5/26/2016 5:37 AM, Dan Roganti via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
FYI, a good deal on User port connectors, 10/$15 just picked up a bag other common places are price gouging you on this part.
http://www.memotronics.com/commodore-pet-cbm-64-c64-sx64-128-vic20-user-port... Dan
I hope I'm not considered a price gouger, but I have those in stock as well, and I think I can do $15.00/10 units.
no by all means not, I meant places that charge $8 just for one
On May 27, 2016, at 6:35 AM, Dan Roganti via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 2:12 AM, RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On 5/26/2016 5:37 AM, Dan Roganti via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
FYI, a good deal on User port connectors, 10/$15 just picked up a bag other common places are price gouging you on this part.
http://www.memotronics.com/commodore-pet-cbm-64-c64-sx64-128-vic20-user-port... Dan
I hope I'm not considered a price gouger, but I have those in stock as well, and I think I can do $15.00/10 units.
no by all means not, I meant places that charge $8 just for one Jim, I was just browsing your website yesterday! Very cool stuff. Planning a few purchases. Thanks for all you do!
On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 6:49 AM, chrisjpf33--- via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On May 27, 2016, at 6:35 AM, Dan Roganti via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 2:12 AM, RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On 5/26/2016 5:37 AM, Dan Roganti via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
FYI, a good deal on User port connectors, 10/$15 just picked up a bag other common places are price gouging you on this part.
http://www.memotronics.com/commodore-pet-cbm-64-c64-sx64-128-vic20-user-port...
Dan
I hope I'm not considered a price gouger, but I have those in stock as well, and I think I can do $15.00/10 units.
no by all means not, I meant places that charge $8 just for one
Jim, I was just browsing your website yesterday! Very cool stuff. Planning a few purchases. Thanks for all you do!
yep, that's where we load up on the C64NIC+ network carts and the uIEC boards too in our network games for the past 7yrs
On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 4:00 PM, Douglas Crawford via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Yes of course, as Dave said. Simplist is the '595, get 8 outputs from 2 control lines. Ubiquitous in the arduino world... https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13699
yea, as the saying goes here's a 1000 ways to build a better mousetrap
On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 3:16 PM, Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 2:56 PM, Dan Roganti via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 12:58 PM, Dan Roganti via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Would this help?
almost, that one has 6 outputs you need one with 10 outputs
Thought the C64 user port only had an 8-bit port. Where are the other two connected? The VIC has a few of the joystick port connected to the user port, but not sure what other outputs you can get out of the C64.
The C64 cartridge board used a cmos 4028, 4bit BCD decoder [Binary Coded Decimal] which has 10 outputs. Even though the interface uses a 4bit binary number, the 4028 only converts the first 10 numbers, 0-9 This in turn drives each motor arranged in a bridge circuit inside the arm. There are 5 motors in the arm = base, shoulder, elbow, wrist, and gripper Each pair of outputs drive one motor The bridge circuit is wired for each motor with a split bipolar power supply using batteries, B+, Gnd, and B- Only one output on the 4028 is allowed to turn on As there is no protection against faulty data switching on both signals and causing a meltdown inside the arm Dan
OK. So only one output can be on at any one time with this setup? Kind of a 74141 without the high voltage?
Funny thing, I Googled 4028 without any other text and the datasheet was the first search result.
Kinda, the 4028 doesn't have high voltage outputs either, but it's cmos so it has a wider operating voltage. As I mentioned in the other thread, they use bipolar output transistors on each output of the 4028 for this. This can waste more power, reducing the torque on the motors, they weren't thinking ahead, it's a toy, just make it cheap and get it out the door.
participants (8)
-
Chris Fala -
chrisjpf33＠gmail.com
-
Dan Roganti -
Dave McGuire -
Douglas Crawford -
Neil Cherry -
RETRO Innovations -
Tony Bogan