...

Why not fix the doors, so they can be opened from the outside without prop-ing them?

I assumed the ramp doors are being propped due to laziness, , not because they can't be opened from outside. I'll have to check that....Either way we can't change InfoAge things without permission. We don't even know if they are broken.

There is nothing wrong with propping open a door while actually moving stuff through it. What prompted my message is we often see doors LEFT propped open when people are taking their leisurely time moving stuff or just forgotten about.

OK, this conversation is taking a sour turn. I don't like descriptions like "lazy" or "leisurely" about the difficult efforts to move stuff in, out and around InfoAge. I've moved stuff there myself, it's not easy - others have moved much MUCH harder stuff. I think there's a confusion, between two sorts of access. One is, moving stuff in and out, and propping doors wide open to do so. Certainly, for fire-code and energy reasons, they should not be left that way. This seems to be what Evan has in mind. But the other, is propping doors open for (re)entrance, enough to keep them from jamming closed, or from locking from outside. For example - during the Festivus, I recall the outside doors to the grill, HAD to be kept from closing with a "prop". Otherwise, I could not get back in! Did they lock, jam or both? Sorry, I wasn't paying close attention and don't remember now. And I already mentioned the iMac "prop" in common use for years at InfoAge. So my point was/is - if the doors can't be opened from the outside, that might explain why they are left "wide open". It's not merely about convenience or interpreted as "laziness". It's about getting back in. I agree with Evan, this is not only a VCFed issue, InfoAge is responsible for maintenance of doors. Maybe VCFed can contribute to the InfoAge repair with Evan's attention and funds. Dollars spent on the doors, might save InfoAge heating costs which Evan pointed out were "huge". As for "out of VCF's scope": I dunno, we use the doors, right? VCFed properties (and mine as an exhibitor) are under InfoAge locks and keys, right? And Evan brought it up, before our next event. And April's VCF-East is coming up too, even more movement then. The problem seems to be, then, some combination of InfoAge door maintenance and repair; and some rules-of-access for moving items in and out of InfoAge. A block of wood on a chain, as a handy prop, may immediately solve the "wide open" problem. It won't fix a broken door, but it may help some people change their behavior, while the door is under improvement. I'm sure the VCFed people who have moved items, can describe their experiences upon request. And the doors, they either work or they don't, and can be examined by Evan and staff. I think further discussion should be private, as Evan works the issues, and as he's has now put the word out about a now-specific behavior. A discussion about a specific person's behavior, or their complaints about doors, should be private. And it's an InfoAge maintenance issue (which impacts VCFed). I have nothing further to add, in any event. Herb Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net