OT: Modern keyboard question
I'm thinking about getting a new keyboard for my modern PC. I want to use squishy keycaps such as these: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/silica-gel-keycap-set It says they're Cherry MX compatible. Does that mean they only work with official Cherry-branded keyboards? Or is there some other search term to use (etc.) for keyboards that are Cherry-compatible? ________________________________ Evan Koblentz, executive director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)(3) educational non-profit evan@vcfed.org (646) 546-9999 www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation instagram.com/vcfederation
Amending my previous comment .... the real question is, how do I find my ideal keyboard? I want something with: - A flat (not square-sided) spacebar - Backlighted - Soft keycaps (the actual cap tops, not the travel) - NOT one of those roll-up things nor a keyboard overlay
On 11/20/18 11:05 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
I'm thinking about getting a new keyboard for my modern PC.
I want to use squishy keycaps such as these:
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/silica-gel-keycap-set
It says they're Cherry MX compatible.
Does that mean they only work with official Cherry-branded keyboards? Or is there some other search term to use (etc.) for keyboards that are Cherry-compatible?
It suggests that those keycaps will fit on Cherry MX key switches. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
I'm thinking about getting a new keyboard for my modern PC.
I want to use squishy keycaps such as these:
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/silica-gel-keycap-set
It says they're Cherry MX compatible.
Does that mean they only work with official Cherry-branded keyboards? Or is there some other search term to use (etc.) for keyboards that are Cherry-compatible? It suggests that those keycaps will fit on Cherry MX key switches.
But how do I know what keyboards have such switches?
On 11/20/18 11:50 PM, Evan Koblentz wrote:
I'm thinking about getting a new keyboard for my modern PC.
I want to use squishy keycaps such as these:
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/silica-gel-keycap-set
It says they're Cherry MX compatible.
Does that mean they only work with official Cherry-branded keyboards? Or is there some other search term to use (etc.) for keyboards that are Cherry-compatible? It suggests that those keycaps will fit on Cherry MX key switches.
But how do I know what keyboards have such switches?
Your bank account will know if you have Cherry MX switches. If you didn't specifically buy them, it's not likely that you have them. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On 11/20/18 11:50 PM, Evan Koblentz wrote:
I'm thinking about getting a new keyboard for my modern PC.
I want to use squishy keycaps such as these:
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/silica-gel-keycap-set
It says they're Cherry MX compatible.
Does that mean they only work with official Cherry-branded keyboards? Or is there some other search term to use (etc.) for keyboards that are Cherry-compatible? It suggests that those keycaps will fit on Cherry MX key switches.
But how do I know what keyboards have such switches?
I guess more specifically, you'd be searching for keyboards WITH Cherry MX switches. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
Generally a decent quality mechanical keyboard with Cherry MX switches will cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $100. You can go a lot higher, and occasionally you'll find something a bit lower. There are a number of variants of the Cherry MX switches with different characteristics (tactile response, audible click, etc). Here's a primer on the various types: https://www.keyboardco.com/blog/index.php/2012/12/an-introduction-to-cherry-... Since you're looking at silicone keycaps, you probably want a non-click switch like the Cherry MX Brown. Something like this perhaps: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126445 You're not likely to find a keyboard with those keycaps preinstalled, so figure out what type of key switch you'd like and then find a keyboard with those keys. Any of the Cherry MX "colors" should work with those keycaps. Massdrop doesn't seem to be running that drop right now, but as usual there's a seller on aliexpress that can sell you some. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Arrival-104-Silicone-Keycaps-Blank-Keyca... Let me know if you have other questions. On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 11:50 PM Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I'm thinking about getting a new keyboard for my modern PC.
I want to use squishy keycaps such as these:
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/silica-gel-keycap-set
It says they're Cherry MX compatible.
Does that mean they only work with official Cherry-branded keyboards? Or is there some other search term to use (etc.) for keyboards that are Cherry-compatible? It suggests that those keycaps will fit on Cherry MX key switches.
But how do I know what keyboards have such switches?
I would add to this the suggestion of getting a key switch "tester". This is essentially a collection of different types of key switches, not connected to anything, on some sort of a mounting board. (usually not a PCB) This will allow you to evaluate each one, as they're very different, to see which one you like best. Then you can go find a keyboard built with that type of key mechanism. This is a pretty common thing, they're all over Amazon. I live on my keyboard, and I'm a big fan of Cherry MX Blue key switches. These are loud as hell, but I work in a private lab so there's nobody to disturb with noise. I can *fly* on this keyboard, with much less hand fatigue than I'd gotten from my previous keyboards. I have never been a PC person; I grew up on workstation-class hardware. When you're using a VAXstation, you used a DEC LK201 or LK401 keyboard. Nothing else would work on those systems. Likewise when I moved to Sun systems, starting with the Sun "Type 2" keyboard on a Sun2 (not SPARC-2) system. Again, nothing else was compatible. It's a good thing that these were, with very rare exceptions, very good keyboards. But the point is, all my life I never really had the notion of "choosing" a keyboard, like PC users have. I got what the vendor provided, because nothing else would work with those systems. Now with an i7 on my desk (now that these crappy PeeCee processors are almost as fast as a decade-old SPARC!) it suddenly occurred to me that I do in fact have a wide range of options, when for the past couple of years I had just bounced back and forth between a Sun Type7 keyboard and an Apple aluminum keyboard, both USB, and both excellent. I went with the Cherry MX Blue, TKL (ten-key-less, just a main keyboard and a cursor pad), with nice thick heavy key caps. Unlabeled key caps, because I know damn well where the keys are after 40+ years at a keyboard. The specific keyboard I chose (but with different keycaps) is a HyperX Alloy FPS Pro, purchased via Amazon. It's built like a tank; the keycaps are seated in a thick, heavy metal plate. This is marketed toward the game crowd, but that's essentially irrelevant. I do not play games. Heavy software/hardware development is a very similar use case...albeit with less shouting, grunting, and unemployment. Choice of keyboard is very personal and very important. It can truly make the difference between hating sitting at a machine and loving it. Do yourself a favor, take the time to evaluate what's out there and pick the one that works best for your usage patterns. You won't get out of it for less than $100, but that keyboard will likely last most of the rest of your life. Sorry for the long-windedness; this is a big subject. -Dave On 11/21/18 1:08 AM, Mark Whittington via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Generally a decent quality mechanical keyboard with Cherry MX switches will cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $100. You can go a lot higher, and occasionally you'll find something a bit lower. There are a number of variants of the Cherry MX switches with different characteristics (tactile response, audible click, etc). Here's a primer on the various types: https://www.keyboardco.com/blog/index.php/2012/12/an-introduction-to-cherry-...
Since you're looking at silicone keycaps, you probably want a non-click switch like the Cherry MX Brown. Something like this perhaps: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126445
You're not likely to find a keyboard with those keycaps preinstalled, so figure out what type of key switch you'd like and then find a keyboard with those keys. Any of the Cherry MX "colors" should work with those keycaps.
Massdrop doesn't seem to be running that drop right now, but as usual there's a seller on aliexpress that can sell you some. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Arrival-104-Silicone-Keycaps-Blank-Keyca...
Let me know if you have other questions.
On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 11:50 PM Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I'm thinking about getting a new keyboard for my modern PC.
I want to use squishy keycaps such as these:
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/silica-gel-keycap-set
It says they're Cherry MX compatible.
Does that mean they only work with official Cherry-branded keyboards? Or is there some other search term to use (etc.) for keyboards that are Cherry-compatible? It suggests that those keycaps will fit on Cherry MX key switches.
But how do I know what keyboards have such switches?
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
Find a Microcenter store. Play around with all the sample keyboards they have in their keyboard aisle until you find one that feels like you want a keyboard to feel. On Nov 21, 2018 3:12 AM, "Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic" < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote: I would add to this the suggestion of getting a key switch "tester". This is essentially a collection of different types of key switches, not connected to anything, on some sort of a mounting board. (usually not a PCB) This will allow you to evaluate each one, as they're very different, to see which one you like best. Then you can go find a keyboard built with that type of key mechanism. This is a pretty common thing, they're all over Amazon. I live on my keyboard, and I'm a big fan of Cherry MX Blue key switches. These are loud as hell, but I work in a private lab so there's nobody to disturb with noise. I can *fly* on this keyboard, with much less hand fatigue than I'd gotten from my previous keyboards. I have never been a PC person; I grew up on workstation-class hardware. When you're using a VAXstation, you used a DEC LK201 or LK401 keyboard. Nothing else would work on those systems. Likewise when I moved to Sun systems, starting with the Sun "Type 2" keyboard on a Sun2 (not SPARC-2) system. Again, nothing else was compatible. It's a good thing that these were, with very rare exceptions, very good keyboards. But the point is, all my life I never really had the notion of "choosing" a keyboard, like PC users have. I got what the vendor provided, because nothing else would work with those systems. Now with an i7 on my desk (now that these crappy PeeCee processors are almost as fast as a decade-old SPARC!) it suddenly occurred to me that I do in fact have a wide range of options, when for the past couple of years I had just bounced back and forth between a Sun Type7 keyboard and an Apple aluminum keyboard, both USB, and both excellent. I went with the Cherry MX Blue, TKL (ten-key-less, just a main keyboard and a cursor pad), with nice thick heavy key caps. Unlabeled key caps, because I know damn well where the keys are after 40+ years at a keyboard. The specific keyboard I chose (but with different keycaps) is a HyperX Alloy FPS Pro, purchased via Amazon. It's built like a tank; the keycaps are seated in a thick, heavy metal plate. This is marketed toward the game crowd, but that's essentially irrelevant. I do not play games. Heavy software/hardware development is a very similar use case...albeit with less shouting, grunting, and unemployment. Choice of keyboard is very personal and very important. It can truly make the difference between hating sitting at a machine and loving it. Do yourself a favor, take the time to evaluate what's out there and pick the one that works best for your usage patterns. You won't get out of it for less than $100, but that keyboard will likely last most of the rest of your life. Sorry for the long-windedness; this is a big subject. -Dave On 11/21/18 1:08 AM, Mark Whittington via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Generally a decent quality mechanical keyboard with Cherry MX switches will cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $100. You can go a lot higher, and occasionally you'll find something a bit lower. There are a number of variants of the Cherry MX switches with different characteristics (tactile response, audible click, etc). Here's a primer on the various types:
https://www.keyboardco.com/blog/index.php/2012/12/an-introduction-to-cherry-...
Since you're looking at silicone keycaps, you probably want a non-click switch like the Cherry MX Brown. Something like this perhaps: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126445
You're not likely to find a keyboard with those keycaps preinstalled, so figure out what type of key switch you'd like and then find a keyboard
with
those keys. Any of the Cherry MX "colors" should work with those keycaps.
Massdrop doesn't seem to be running that drop right now, but as usual there's a seller on aliexpress that can sell you some.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Arrival-104-Silicone-Keycaps-Blank-Keyca...
Let me know if you have other questions.
On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 11:50 PM Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I'm thinking about getting a new keyboard for my modern PC.
I want to use squishy keycaps such as these:
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/silica-gel-keycap-set
It says they're Cherry MX compatible.
Does that mean they only work with official Cherry-branded keyboards?
Or
is there some other search term to use (etc.) for keyboards that are Cherry-compatible? It suggests that those keycaps will fit on Cherry MX key switches.
But how do I know what keyboards have such switches?
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
I couldn’t agree more. You have to try the keyboard out. While you think squishy key caps will help with fatigue it’s actually the actuation of the switch that causes the issue. This is why there are so many choices in switches for cherry. You need to find the one that matches your typing style with the least fatigue and then make compromises on things like sound level and travel. A good keyboard is not cheap and can cost more than an entire chrome book laptop. Some people just get old IBM PC keyboards and use an adapter since they were a good compromise and really good for touch typing. Personally I’m a sadist and would rather use a PCjr chicklet keyboard, but then again we all know I’m a couple of “sandwiches short of a picnic”. Cheers, Corey corey cohen uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 21, 2018, at 1:49 AM, Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Find a Microcenter store. Play around with all the sample keyboards they have in their keyboard aisle until you find one that feels like you want a keyboard to feel.
On Nov 21, 2018 3:12 AM, "Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic" < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I would add to this the suggestion of getting a key switch "tester". This is essentially a collection of different types of key switches, not connected to anything, on some sort of a mounting board. (usually not a PCB) This will allow you to evaluate each one, as they're very different, to see which one you like best. Then you can go find a keyboard built with that type of key mechanism. This is a pretty common thing, they're all over Amazon.
I live on my keyboard, and I'm a big fan of Cherry MX Blue key switches. These are loud as hell, but I work in a private lab so there's nobody to disturb with noise. I can *fly* on this keyboard, with much less hand fatigue than I'd gotten from my previous keyboards.
I have never been a PC person; I grew up on workstation-class hardware. When you're using a VAXstation, you used a DEC LK201 or LK401 keyboard. Nothing else would work on those systems. Likewise when I moved to Sun systems, starting with the Sun "Type 2" keyboard on a Sun2 (not SPARC-2) system. Again, nothing else was compatible. It's a good thing that these were, with very rare exceptions, very good keyboards. But the point is, all my life I never really had the notion of "choosing" a keyboard, like PC users have. I got what the vendor provided, because nothing else would work with those systems.
Now with an i7 on my desk (now that these crappy PeeCee processors are almost as fast as a decade-old SPARC!) it suddenly occurred to me that I do in fact have a wide range of options, when for the past couple of years I had just bounced back and forth between a Sun Type7 keyboard and an Apple aluminum keyboard, both USB, and both excellent. I went with the Cherry MX Blue, TKL (ten-key-less, just a main keyboard and a cursor pad), with nice thick heavy key caps. Unlabeled key caps, because I know damn well where the keys are after 40+ years at a keyboard.
The specific keyboard I chose (but with different keycaps) is a HyperX Alloy FPS Pro, purchased via Amazon. It's built like a tank; the keycaps are seated in a thick, heavy metal plate. This is marketed toward the game crowd, but that's essentially irrelevant. I do not play games. Heavy software/hardware development is a very similar use case...albeit with less shouting, grunting, and unemployment.
Choice of keyboard is very personal and very important. It can truly make the difference between hating sitting at a machine and loving it. Do yourself a favor, take the time to evaluate what's out there and pick the one that works best for your usage patterns. You won't get out of it for less than $100, but that keyboard will likely last most of the rest of your life.
Sorry for the long-windedness; this is a big subject.
-Dave
On 11/21/18 1:08 AM, Mark Whittington via vcf-midatlantic wrote: Generally a decent quality mechanical keyboard with Cherry MX switches will cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $100. You can go a lot higher, and occasionally you'll find something a bit lower. There are a number of variants of the Cherry MX switches with different characteristics (tactile response, audible click, etc). Here's a primer on the various types:
https://www.keyboardco.com/blog/index.php/2012/12/an-introduction-to-cherry-...
Since you're looking at silicone keycaps, you probably want a non-click switch like the Cherry MX Brown. Something like this perhaps: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126445
You're not likely to find a keyboard with those keycaps preinstalled, so figure out what type of key switch you'd like and then find a keyboard
with
those keys. Any of the Cherry MX "colors" should work with those keycaps.
Massdrop doesn't seem to be running that drop right now, but as usual there's a seller on aliexpress that can sell you some.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Arrival-104-Silicone-Keycaps-Blank-Keyca...
Let me know if you have other questions.
On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 11:50 PM Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I'm thinking about getting a new keyboard for my modern PC.
I want to use squishy keycaps such as these:
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/silica-gel-keycap-set
It says they're Cherry MX compatible.
Does that mean they only work with official Cherry-branded keyboards?
Or
is there some other search term to use (etc.) for keyboards that are Cherry-compatible? It suggests that those keycaps will fit on Cherry MX key switches.
But how do I know what keyboards have such switches?
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
I suggest you try out a Topre Realforce keyboard. These have very light actuation force (45g) and have a soft bottoming out and are great to not get fatigue while typing. They also vary actuation force by location on the keyboard, so your weaker fingers (pinkie etc) will have less work pressing the keys. There’s a variant with RGB backlighting which also uses Cherry MX compatible switches, which means that you can easily get aftermarket keycaps of all shapes and sizes and colors you’d ever want. https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=3913 I’ve recently gone down the mechanical keyboard rabbit hole, and I’ve tested a lot of them, please feel free to AMA. Best, Thomas
On Nov 21, 2018, at 9:32 AM, corey cohen via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I couldn’t agree more. You have to try the keyboard out. While you think squishy key caps will help with fatigue it’s actually the actuation of the switch that causes the issue. This is why there are so many choices in switches for cherry. You need to find the one that matches your typing style with the least fatigue and then make compromises on things like sound level and travel. A good keyboard is not cheap and can cost more than an entire chrome book laptop.
Some people just get old IBM PC keyboards and use an adapter since they were a good compromise and really good for touch typing.
Personally I’m a sadist and would rather use a PCjr chicklet keyboard, but then again we all know I’m a couple of “sandwiches short of a picnic”.
Cheers, Corey corey cohen uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 21, 2018, at 1:49 AM, Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Find a Microcenter store. Play around with all the sample keyboards they have in their keyboard aisle until you find one that feels like you want a keyboard to feel.
On Nov 21, 2018 3:12 AM, "Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic" < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I would add to this the suggestion of getting a key switch "tester". This is essentially a collection of different types of key switches, not connected to anything, on some sort of a mounting board. (usually not a PCB) This will allow you to evaluate each one, as they're very different, to see which one you like best. Then you can go find a keyboard built with that type of key mechanism. This is a pretty common thing, they're all over Amazon.
I live on my keyboard, and I'm a big fan of Cherry MX Blue key switches. These are loud as hell, but I work in a private lab so there's nobody to disturb with noise. I can *fly* on this keyboard, with much less hand fatigue than I'd gotten from my previous keyboards.
I have never been a PC person; I grew up on workstation-class hardware. When you're using a VAXstation, you used a DEC LK201 or LK401 keyboard. Nothing else would work on those systems. Likewise when I moved to Sun systems, starting with the Sun "Type 2" keyboard on a Sun2 (not SPARC-2) system. Again, nothing else was compatible. It's a good thing that these were, with very rare exceptions, very good keyboards. But the point is, all my life I never really had the notion of "choosing" a keyboard, like PC users have. I got what the vendor provided, because nothing else would work with those systems.
Now with an i7 on my desk (now that these crappy PeeCee processors are almost as fast as a decade-old SPARC!) it suddenly occurred to me that I do in fact have a wide range of options, when for the past couple of years I had just bounced back and forth between a Sun Type7 keyboard and an Apple aluminum keyboard, both USB, and both excellent. I went with the Cherry MX Blue, TKL (ten-key-less, just a main keyboard and a cursor pad), with nice thick heavy key caps. Unlabeled key caps, because I know damn well where the keys are after 40+ years at a keyboard.
The specific keyboard I chose (but with different keycaps) is a HyperX Alloy FPS Pro, purchased via Amazon. It's built like a tank; the keycaps are seated in a thick, heavy metal plate. This is marketed toward the game crowd, but that's essentially irrelevant. I do not play games. Heavy software/hardware development is a very similar use case...albeit with less shouting, grunting, and unemployment.
Choice of keyboard is very personal and very important. It can truly make the difference between hating sitting at a machine and loving it. Do yourself a favor, take the time to evaluate what's out there and pick the one that works best for your usage patterns. You won't get out of it for less than $100, but that keyboard will likely last most of the rest of your life.
Sorry for the long-windedness; this is a big subject.
-Dave
On 11/21/18 1:08 AM, Mark Whittington via vcf-midatlantic wrote: Generally a decent quality mechanical keyboard with Cherry MX switches will cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $100. You can go a lot higher, and occasionally you'll find something a bit lower. There are a number of variants of the Cherry MX switches with different characteristics (tactile response, audible click, etc). Here's a primer on the various types:
https://www.keyboardco.com/blog/index.php/2012/12/an-introduction-to-cherry-...
Since you're looking at silicone keycaps, you probably want a non-click switch like the Cherry MX Brown. Something like this perhaps: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126445
You're not likely to find a keyboard with those keycaps preinstalled, so figure out what type of key switch you'd like and then find a keyboard
with
those keys. Any of the Cherry MX "colors" should work with those keycaps.
Massdrop doesn't seem to be running that drop right now, but as usual there's a seller on aliexpress that can sell you some.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Arrival-104-Silicone-Keycaps-Blank-Keyca...
Let me know if you have other questions.
On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 11:50 PM Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I'm thinking about getting a new keyboard for my modern PC.
I want to use squishy keycaps such as these:
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/silica-gel-keycap-set
It says they're Cherry MX compatible.
Does that mean they only work with official Cherry-branded keyboards?
Or
is there some other search term to use (etc.) for keyboards that are Cherry-compatible? It suggests that those keycaps will fit on Cherry MX key switches.
But how do I know what keyboards have such switches?
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
I have one of the key “samplers” that Dave mentions. It only has 9 keys but gives you a good idea. I agree about Cherry Blue, great stuff. Too loud for me though but that gives it a nostalgic feel. Tried Red because it was on sale. Very soft touch with no tactile feel at all. Nice keyboard but too soft for me. Got Cherry Brown which is almost as soft as Red but has a slight tactile “bump” that helps my brain know I actually struck a key. Just a little detail from my experience that I hope is helpful. SOooo many more options. Good luck! On Nov 21, 2018, at 3:11 AM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote: I would add to this the suggestion of getting a key switch "tester". This is essentially a collection of different types of key switches, not connected to anything, on some sort of a mounting board. (usually not a PCB) This will allow you to evaluate each one, as they're very different, to see which one you like best. Then you can go find a keyboard built with that type of key mechanism. This is a pretty common thing, they're all over Amazon. I live on my keyboard, and I'm a big fan of Cherry MX Blue key switches. These are loud as hell, but I work in a private lab so there's nobody to disturb with noise. I can *fly* on this keyboard, with much less hand fatigue than I'd gotten from my previous keyboards. I have never been a PC person; I grew up on workstation-class hardware. When you're using a VAXstation, you used a DEC LK201 or LK401 keyboard. Nothing else would work on those systems. Likewise when I moved to Sun systems, starting with the Sun "Type 2" keyboard on a Sun2 (not SPARC-2) system. Again, nothing else was compatible. It's a good thing that these were, with very rare exceptions, very good keyboards. But the point is, all my life I never really had the notion of "choosing" a keyboard, like PC users have. I got what the vendor provided, because nothing else would work with those systems. Now with an i7 on my desk (now that these crappy PeeCee processors are almost as fast as a decade-old SPARC!) it suddenly occurred to me that I do in fact have a wide range of options, when for the past couple of years I had just bounced back and forth between a Sun Type7 keyboard and an Apple aluminum keyboard, both USB, and both excellent. I went with the Cherry MX Blue, TKL (ten-key-less, just a main keyboard and a cursor pad), with nice thick heavy key caps. Unlabeled key caps, because I know damn well where the keys are after 40+ years at a keyboard. The specific keyboard I chose (but with different keycaps) is a HyperX Alloy FPS Pro, purchased via Amazon. It's built like a tank; the keycaps are seated in a thick, heavy metal plate. This is marketed toward the game crowd, but that's essentially irrelevant. I do not play games. Heavy software/hardware development is a very similar use case...albeit with less shouting, grunting, and unemployment. Choice of keyboard is very personal and very important. It can truly make the difference between hating sitting at a machine and loving it. Do yourself a favor, take the time to evaluate what's out there and pick the one that works best for your usage patterns. You won't get out of it for less than $100, but that keyboard will likely last most of the rest of your life. Sorry for the long-windedness; this is a big subject. -Dave
On 11/21/18 1:08 AM, Mark Whittington via vcf-midatlantic wrote: Generally a decent quality mechanical keyboard with Cherry MX switches will cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $100. You can go a lot higher, and occasionally you'll find something a bit lower. There are a number of variants of the Cherry MX switches with different characteristics (tactile response, audible click, etc). Here's a primer on the various types: https://www.keyboardco.com/blog/index.php/2012/12/an-introduction-to-cherry-...
Since you're looking at silicone keycaps, you probably want a non-click switch like the Cherry MX Brown. Something like this perhaps: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126445
You're not likely to find a keyboard with those keycaps preinstalled, so figure out what type of key switch you'd like and then find a keyboard with those keys. Any of the Cherry MX "colors" should work with those keycaps.
Massdrop doesn't seem to be running that drop right now, but as usual there's a seller on aliexpress that can sell you some. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Arrival-104-Silicone-Keycaps-Blank-Keyca...
Let me know if you have other questions.
On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 11:50 PM Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I'm thinking about getting a new keyboard for my modern PC.
I want to use squishy keycaps such as these:
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/silica-gel-keycap-set
It says they're Cherry MX compatible.
Does that mean they only work with official Cherry-branded keyboards? Or is there some other search term to use (etc.) for keyboards that are Cherry-compatible? It suggests that those keycaps will fit on Cherry MX key switches.
But how do I know what keyboards have such switches?
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
I have a MX brown, and MX red board I could bring along with me. Are there microcenters in NJ? They have a nice selection of boards available. I personally find Alps switches much more enjoyable to type on. If you want, I could bring a blue, creme damped, and I think orange. Or if you want a real keyboard, Alex can bring along the Model F I just sold him :) -J On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 9:07 PM Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I have one of the key “samplers” that Dave mentions. It only has 9 keys but gives you a good idea. I agree about Cherry Blue, great stuff. Too loud for me though but that gives it a nostalgic feel. Tried Red because it was on sale. Very soft touch with no tactile feel at all. Nice keyboard but too soft for me. Got Cherry Brown which is almost as soft as Red but has a slight tactile “bump” that helps my brain know I actually struck a key.
Just a little detail from my experience that I hope is helpful. SOooo many more options. Good luck!
On Nov 21, 2018, at 3:11 AM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I would add to this the suggestion of getting a key switch "tester". This is essentially a collection of different types of key switches, not connected to anything, on some sort of a mounting board. (usually not a PCB) This will allow you to evaluate each one, as they're very different, to see which one you like best. Then you can go find a keyboard built with that type of key mechanism. This is a pretty common thing, they're all over Amazon.
I live on my keyboard, and I'm a big fan of Cherry MX Blue key switches. These are loud as hell, but I work in a private lab so there's nobody to disturb with noise. I can *fly* on this keyboard, with much less hand fatigue than I'd gotten from my previous keyboards.
I have never been a PC person; I grew up on workstation-class hardware. When you're using a VAXstation, you used a DEC LK201 or LK401 keyboard. Nothing else would work on those systems. Likewise when I moved to Sun systems, starting with the Sun "Type 2" keyboard on a Sun2 (not SPARC-2) system. Again, nothing else was compatible. It's a good thing that these were, with very rare exceptions, very good keyboards. But the point is, all my life I never really had the notion of "choosing" a keyboard, like PC users have. I got what the vendor provided, because nothing else would work with those systems.
Now with an i7 on my desk (now that these crappy PeeCee processors are almost as fast as a decade-old SPARC!) it suddenly occurred to me that I do in fact have a wide range of options, when for the past couple of years I had just bounced back and forth between a Sun Type7 keyboard and an Apple aluminum keyboard, both USB, and both excellent. I went with the Cherry MX Blue, TKL (ten-key-less, just a main keyboard and a cursor pad), with nice thick heavy key caps. Unlabeled key caps, because I know damn well where the keys are after 40+ years at a keyboard.
The specific keyboard I chose (but with different keycaps) is a HyperX Alloy FPS Pro, purchased via Amazon. It's built like a tank; the keycaps are seated in a thick, heavy metal plate. This is marketed toward the game crowd, but that's essentially irrelevant. I do not play games. Heavy software/hardware development is a very similar use case...albeit with less shouting, grunting, and unemployment.
Choice of keyboard is very personal and very important. It can truly make the difference between hating sitting at a machine and loving it. Do yourself a favor, take the time to evaluate what's out there and pick the one that works best for your usage patterns. You won't get out of it for less than $100, but that keyboard will likely last most of the rest of your life.
Sorry for the long-windedness; this is a big subject.
-Dave
On 11/21/18 1:08 AM, Mark Whittington via vcf-midatlantic wrote: Generally a decent quality mechanical keyboard with Cherry MX switches will cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $100. You can go a lot higher, and occasionally you'll find something a bit lower. There are a number of variants of the Cherry MX switches with different characteristics (tactile response, audible click, etc). Here's a primer on the various types:
https://www.keyboardco.com/blog/index.php/2012/12/an-introduction-to-cherry-...
Since you're looking at silicone keycaps, you probably want a non-click switch like the Cherry MX Brown. Something like this perhaps: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126445
You're not likely to find a keyboard with those keycaps preinstalled, so figure out what type of key switch you'd like and then find a keyboard
with
those keys. Any of the Cherry MX "colors" should work with those keycaps.
Massdrop doesn't seem to be running that drop right now, but as usual there's a seller on aliexpress that can sell you some.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Arrival-104-Silicone-Keycaps-Blank-Keyca...
Let me know if you have other questions.
On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 11:50 PM Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I'm thinking about getting a new keyboard for my modern PC.
I want to use squishy keycaps such as these:
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/silica-gel-keycap-set
It says they're Cherry MX compatible.
Does that mean they only work with official Cherry-branded keyboards?
Or
is there some other search term to use (etc.) for keyboards that are Cherry-compatible? It suggests that those keycaps will fit on Cherry MX key switches.
But how do I know what keyboards have such switches?
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
-- Jason Perkins 313 355 0085 Sent from my iPhone
I have a MX brown, and MX red board I could bring along with me.
Thanks but it sounds like Chris F. has it covered.
Are there microcenters in NJ?
There's one way up north in Paterson. I go there a couple of times a year.
Or if you want a real keyboard, Alex can bring along the Model F I just sold him :) This is not the keyboard I seek.
Might I also suggest the Chyrosran22 YouTube channel. He reviews keyboards (and key switches) both new and old. https://www.youtube.com/user/Chyrosran22/videos On 11/25/18 9:09 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
I have a MX brown, and MX red board I could bring along with me.
Thanks but it sounds like Chris F. has it covered.
Are there microcenters in NJ?
There's one way up north in Paterson. I go there a couple of times a year.
Or if you want a real keyboard, Alex can bring along the Model F I just sold him :) This is not the keyboard I seek.
I'm also more of an Alps fan; my daily driver, when I'm not on a laptop (my work-issued machine is one of the newer Macbooks, which has probably the worst keyboard I've ever used and that's not an exaggeration) is an Apple Extended Keyboard II through an iMate ADB->USB adaptor. They have a nice amount of responsiveness without waking anyone up with key noise if I'm working at night. I don't remember exactly which Alps switches they are, there were a few different AEK2 variants with different switches. The problem I'm finding, too, is that the switches aren't made anymore, so replacement is challenging, and my left Ctrl key has started to get a little flaky. I'd love to get an equivalent to that for my PC, something that's a bit on the heavier end and is at least a full 104-key board with a reasonable amount of rollover. Most keyboards for the PC seem to come with Cherry switches instead, and I'm just not sure which ones I'd like best and don't have many stores near me where I can go to test them. I get the impression I'd like the clear switches, but it'd be good to test with a full keyboard, not a sampler. Still, Jason, if you're down to bring the brown and red ones, I'd love to check 'em out. - Dave
On Nov 25, 2018, at 9:07 PM, Jason Perkins via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I have a MX brown, and MX red board I could bring along with me. Are there microcenters in NJ? They have a nice selection of boards available.
I personally find Alps switches much more enjoyable to type on. If you want, I could bring a blue, creme damped, and I think orange.
Or if you want a real keyboard, Alex can bring along the Model F I just sold him :)
I use an AEK II, too, one of the finest keyboards ever made. Tip: If you’re patient you can get them on eBay, sometimes ones in good shape sell for for less than $50, which is half of what cheap new mechanical keyboards cost. Alps switches are susceptible to dirt, so never buy a AEK II that looks too used (if it’s yellowed, it was probably used a lot, if it’s still white someone stored it away.) Best, Thomas
On Nov 26, 2018, at 6:05 AM, David Riley via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I'm also more of an Alps fan; my daily driver, when I'm not on a laptop (my work-issued machine is one of the newer Macbooks, which has probably the worst keyboard I've ever used and that's not an exaggeration) is an Apple Extended Keyboard II through an iMate ADB->USB adaptor. They have a nice amount of responsiveness without waking anyone up with key noise if I'm working at night. I don't remember exactly which Alps switches they are, there were a few different AEK2 variants with different switches. The problem I'm finding, too, is that the switches aren't made anymore, so replacement is challenging, and my left Ctrl key has started to get a little flaky.
I'd love to get an equivalent to that for my PC, something that's a bit on the heavier end and is at least a full 104-key board with a reasonable amount of rollover. Most keyboards for the PC seem to come with Cherry switches instead, and I'm just not sure which ones I'd like best and don't have many stores near me where I can go to test them. I get the impression I'd like the clear switches, but it'd be good to test with a full keyboard, not a sampler.
Still, Jason, if you're down to bring the brown and red ones, I'd love to check 'em out.
- Dave
On Nov 25, 2018, at 9:07 PM, Jason Perkins via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I have a MX brown, and MX red board I could bring along with me. Are there microcenters in NJ? They have a nice selection of boards available.
I personally find Alps switches much more enjoyable to type on. If you want, I could bring a blue, creme damped, and I think orange.
Or if you want a real keyboard, Alex can bring along the Model F I just sold him :)
" I use an AEK II, too, one of the finest keyboards ever made." I was using an AEKI - my AEK II feels a little scratchy in comparison. But I had to give it up because I've developed carpal tunnel rather badly, so now I use a Microsoft Surface ergo board. It's a lot better than I was expecting! -J On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 6:15 AM Thomas Fuchs via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I use an AEK II, too, one of the finest keyboards ever made.
Tip: If you’re patient you can get them on eBay, sometimes ones in good shape sell for for less than $50, which is half of what cheap new mechanical keyboards cost. Alps switches are susceptible to dirt, so never buy a AEK II that looks too used (if it’s yellowed, it was probably used a lot, if it’s still white someone stored it away.)
Best, Thomas
On Nov 26, 2018, at 6:05 AM, David Riley via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I'm also more of an Alps fan; my daily driver, when I'm not on a laptop (my work-issued machine is one of the newer Macbooks, which has probably the worst keyboard I've ever used and that's not an exaggeration) is an Apple Extended Keyboard II through an iMate ADB->USB adaptor. They have a nice amount of responsiveness without waking anyone up with key noise if I'm working at night. I don't remember exactly which Alps switches they are, there were a few different AEK2 variants with different switches. The problem I'm finding, too, is that the switches aren't made anymore, so replacement is challenging, and my left Ctrl key has started to get a little flaky.
I'd love to get an equivalent to that for my PC, something that's a bit on the heavier end and is at least a full 104-key board with a reasonable amount of rollover. Most keyboards for the PC seem to come with Cherry switches instead, and I'm just not sure which ones I'd like best and don't have many stores near me where I can go to test them. I get the impression I'd like the clear switches, but it'd be good to test with a full keyboard, not a sampler.
Still, Jason, if you're down to bring the brown and red ones, I'd love to check 'em out.
- Dave
On Nov 25, 2018, at 9:07 PM, Jason Perkins via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I have a MX brown, and MX red board I could bring along with me. Are there microcenters in NJ? They have a nice selection of boards available.
I personally find Alps switches much more enjoyable to type on. If you want, I could bring a blue, creme damped, and I think orange.
Or if you want a real keyboard, Alex can bring along the Model F I just sold him :)
-- Jason Perkins 313 355 0085
I'll have a red one for sale. Available unless Evan wants it. Chris On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 6:05 AM David Riley via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I'm also more of an Alps fan; my daily driver, when I'm not on a laptop (my work-issued machine is one of the newer Macbooks, which has probably the worst keyboard I've ever used and that's not an exaggeration) is an Apple Extended Keyboard II through an iMate ADB->USB adaptor. They have a nice amount of responsiveness without waking anyone up with key noise if I'm working at night. I don't remember exactly which Alps switches they are, there were a few different AEK2 variants with different switches. The problem I'm finding, too, is that the switches aren't made anymore, so replacement is challenging, and my left Ctrl key has started to get a little flaky.
I'd love to get an equivalent to that for my PC, something that's a bit on the heavier end and is at least a full 104-key board with a reasonable amount of rollover. Most keyboards for the PC seem to come with Cherry switches instead, and I'm just not sure which ones I'd like best and don't have many stores near me where I can go to test them. I get the impression I'd like the clear switches, but it'd be good to test with a full keyboard, not a sampler.
Still, Jason, if you're down to bring the brown and red ones, I'd love to check 'em out.
- Dave
On Nov 25, 2018, at 9:07 PM, Jason Perkins via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I have a MX brown, and MX red board I could bring along with me. Are there microcenters in NJ? They have a nice selection of boards available.
I personally find Alps switches much more enjoyable to type on. If you want, I could bring a blue, creme damped, and I think orange.
Or if you want a real keyboard, Alex can bring along the Model F I just sold him :)
participants (10)
-
Chris Fala -
Chris Hendrickson -
corey cohen -
Dave McGuire -
David Riley -
Evan Koblentz -
Jason Perkins -
jsalzman＠gmail.com -
Mark Whittington -
Thomas Fuchs