Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Ken Thompson video
On Nov 10, 2020, at 11:52 AM, Evan Koblentz <evan@snarc.net> wrote:
Last year I got Ken Thompson to come to VCF East and arranged for Brian to be there too.
The video reached 100,000 views today: https://youtu.be/EY6q5dv_B-o ... no other VCF video is even close.
That’s very cool! I had not looked recently to see how much it had jumped since VCF East Virtual happened (a number of older videos were boosted as a result of the event, which would make sense) One can only hope that as subsequent videos are online for as long that they can also see views rise and help increase VCFs visibility! This is certainly a huge boost in that department. It’s awesome when a series of events come together to make an even more awesome event! The original idea of Ken Thompson being suggested to you, the fact that Ken Thompson was in the state, that Brian was also available, that was a once in a lifetime congruence that everyone benefited from. Kudos for being in the right place at the right time and being able to bring it all together! With that many views of the existing video, one can only imagine how many views the video would have at this point had they been able to continue talking! Fortunately we’ve got the conversation they did have on video for posterity’s sake and can relish in this once in a lifetime keynote event. Very cool the video has hit the 100k view mark! Tony
one can only imagine how many views the video would have at this point had they been able to continue talking!
I'm sure they could have talked all day. Yes it would have been great fun for the audience. But we were already running 15 minutes late and they knew the schedule. I couldn't hold up the exhibit halls any longer. Anyone who did not understand that was welcome to be in my shoes.
I'm sure they could have talked all day. Yes it would have been great fun for the audience. But we were already running 15 minutes late and they knew the schedule. I couldn't hold up the exhibit halls any longer. Anyone who did not understand that was welcome to be in my shoes.
For sure, and hindsight is 20/20. Being the Show runner is a thankless job, so let me say Thank You! At least now we know in the future to allow exhibits to open WHILE the keynote is still going on so as not to miss another once in a lifetime opportunity, especially since many of the keynote speakers we would be targeting are not going to be around forever. I had the unique position of being in the “Computer Store” down the hall for the entire weekend and heard all the complaints first hand, plus a year and a half worth’s of comments from those watching the video. As I said, hindsight is 20/20. We live and we learn from mistakes of the past or we are doomed to repeat them. I was merely furthering the discussion. Should not diminish this milestone in any way. Tony
At least now we know in the future to allow exhibits to open WHILE the keynote is still going on
Bad idea. The exhibitors would have to worry about the public pawing at their systems unsupervised. That's why I kept a schedule of the keynote and THEN the exhibits, so the exhibitors were free to attend the keynote without fear.
At least now we know in the future to allow exhibits to open WHILE the keynote is still going on
Bad idea. The exhibitors would have to worry about the public pawing at their systems unsupervised. That's why I kept a schedule of the keynote and THEN the exhibits, so the exhibitors were free to attend the keynote without fear.
And as many exhibitors were/are your friends and active members of vcf, that’s understandable, and commendable. You were truly looking out for your friends and club members so they could all have a good time. Things have grown beyond a vintage computer club or group of hobbyists, and in no small part because of your efforts. However, and as witnessed by just the first few responses, these are adults we are talking about. People more than capable of deciding their own priorities. I have been attending expos and conferences for saltwater fishing/hunting and wedding expos for over 30 years as an exhibitor (sometimes as an attendee) from Baltimore to Massachusetts, over 100 different events at dozens of venues for my family businesses. There are constantly major and minor talks/speakers throughout the multi day events, classes and “how to’s” throughout the multi day events as well as exhibits that are open and accessible throughout the multi day events. All happening at the same time. Often if there is a “Major” personality speaking they will obviously take center stage, but never in my life have I seen one literally cut off mid sentence because it was time for the table exhibits to open. Except once. Hell, even when the oscars tries to cut acceptance speeches short the other major stars in the audience start making a fuss to make them turn the lights back up and let them finish, and they aren’t even the main attraction! When the person brought in to TALK wants to continue TALKING to the audience, you let them TALK. It is standard fare at every expo I’ve ever attended EXCEPT VCF East. I have heard the same from nearly every other person I have spoken to, including everyone on the Steering Committee. VCF East will continue to change, grow and expand. This is but one of those ways. Tony
Since I'm quite a ways away (in Iowa) from many of the rest of the group, I'm not privy to all of the politics and such occurring here, but perhaps my thoughts will be seen as an "outsider's view": * Bill Degnan: I'm not sure I understand the statement "VCF MW and VCF E are two different kinds of show." Are you referring to the fact that VCF-Midwest shares the name VCF with other shows but is not managed by the VCF Federation? Is it that the show style is significantly different than the other shows? (As Alexander notes, I think other VCF shows run the same was as Midwest). I worry about this continuing need to single out MW as a different thing. * I'll be honest. I attended at least 2 VCF-East shows, but skipped attending in the past few years, for the following reasons: o VCF East did not seem welcoming to hybrid exhibitor/seller folks like myself. While I have not attended the last few fests, the 2 I attended I was placed in the consignment room, which was a poor fit for many of us (Bob Applegate selling his new reproductions, the Model M KB restoration guy and a few others next to the pile of broken machines and stacks of old software titles). In all the fests, there are those who just want a sales table and some sell old stuff. but it felt demeaning to lump everyone who was selling something into 1 space, and a tiny space at that. Even if more current shows allow a larger space for sales, I still prefer to be in the exhibitor space. o I was not a fan of the exhibit/sales floor being closed for presentations. Yes, it presents some logistic challenges to run an exhibit or a sales table when a popular speaker is giving a presentation, but someone else noted and I agree: I feel my job is to be at the exhibit as part of the overall show. o I especially abhorred the "we're closing at 5PM and not coming back to the show until tomorrow" mentality. Mind you, I am sure the VCF-E venue imposes some usage and scheduling restrictions, and I can understand any of that, but the tone was overbearing. Given that (as I noted above), I feel my exhibit is a part of the show, and I need to man it all times, the afterhours time at the other shows (especially MW) is the "fruit for my labors". It's time to spend time talking to fellow exhibitors and diving deep into their projects with questions they would scarcely get from the main public, time to hack on a neat idea some of us came up with at the show, or just sit with the exhibits behind us and converse on topics of personal interest. o I think the after show dinner is a thing of the past, but I went once and I would never do that again :-) o Everything seemed so military in planning. None of the other shows I attend (and I attend VCF-SE, MW, Tandy Assembly, World of Commodore, CRX, CoCOFEST!, and have previously attended C4EXPO and LUCKI EXPO) seemed so regimented in comparison. Possibly some of this list may not think highly of VCF-MW, but it's pretty loose and every year it seems to have just enough structure to be fun for all, but no more. I also think it's easier for the showrunners to run. I think part of the reason it works is that there's quite a few of us "early exhibitors" that form a second level of management at the show, handling lots of little things as a cabal so they don't overwhelm the primary team. It makes us nobodies feel just slightly important and invested in the show. Of course, the primary team is always in charge, but they know they can ask any of us to help out, and we know they want to enjoy the show as well. * There are thing at the other shows that draw me more to those shows in comparison to VCF-East o The "solder up a small project" idea at VCF-SE was a neat idea. I didn't participate (I solder quite enough, thanks...), but lots of kids ran through that setup and all seemed very happy o The video game wall at VCF-SE was also a neat idea. I'm not a huge gamer, but 2600 Pitfall on 4 huge screens on the wall is something to behold. o The "build a computer badge" at some of the shows is a neat idea. I think you all did that as well this year, and I say continue on if so. o The after hours impromptu musical jam session at CoCoFEST! is a neat thing. Maybe not everyone's cup of tea, but it's mostly harmless fun and a nice way to see a different part of the exhibitors o The Auction at VCF-MW, CoCoFEST!, and Tandy Assembly is a big draw. All of us who attend love seeing all the variety of crap that gets sold, and we're always up to pay premium for useless junk when the money goes to the club to run future shows. o Off-beat things seem more possible at some of the other shows, like WoC, CoCoFEST!, and VCF-MW, for example. + Every year, I get requests to bring my MIDI Tesla Coil (oneTesla.com) to the show, and we play MIDI from new and vintage PCs on the unit after hours (in the dark). I think there's some youtube videos out there with footage. + Last year, I brought a full size console television to VCF-MW and we played video games on it and watched laserdisc movies on it. It was a huge hit and it'll make a return appearance. + And, a true hit of the shows in Chicago is my daughter who attends with me and sells baked goods at the show (she decorates some with computer logos, so there's at least a very minimal topic-ness to the exhibit/sales table). Obviously, the connection is dubious at best, but she gets requests months ahead of time asking if she's going to attend MW or CoCoFEST!, and folks make a beeline for her booth when the show opens. She extremely enjoys it, and it's a neat way to involve my daughter in the event. + As well, I know for a few years, MW had one young gentleman making "Perler Bead" pixel representations of logos, game characters, etc. It was a big draw. + I would never have even considered asking to bring/do those things at VCF-East. * In general, I think it's unfair to compare speaker quality and quantity at this time. It seems petty. Yes, Ken Thompson is a more influential speaker than Michael Tomczak, but I think it takes time to cultivate speakers and win slots on the calendar. * That said, it's possible that VCF-E has a great speaker solictor in Evan and that's not Jeff's strong suit. That doesn't mean Jeff is unqualified to run the show, but that I hope in time Evan will be able to help out in speaker solicitation. * On the other hand, good shows don't necessarily need high profile presenters to be of good value. A cool presentation from someone on the periphery of history can yield lots of good new information, because it's not yet been mined like the more well known speakers have been. * I can see both sides of the Speaker cutoff issue. It's too late now, but I think the best thing to have done was to canvas the attendees (none of the exhibits were open anyway, as I believe, and so most if not all folks would have been in attendance). There could have been 3 options: 1)open the exhibits and close down the presentation, 2)open the exhibits, but continue the presentation, 3) keep the exhibits closed an continue the presentation. Again, as noted above, this in one of those cases where a looser show would have probably helped. But, to Evan's credit, the schedule was posted, he felt the show needed to move forward, and folks must have some respect for the man/woman that is in charge. Someone would have hated any option chosen. * Dave, I thought Evan's initial response was passive aggressive. But, I've seen dozens of them over the past few months and it doesn't look like commenting on them will accomplish anything. I wish all of the principals could make peace, as this hobby is mainly for fun, and the tone seems the opposite of fun. I will continue to wish that for all of you. * Evan, I know some of the above will seem dismissive of how you ran portions of the the shows, and I hope you will not take it personally. You and I probably don't agree on how a show should be run. Though, I will always respect those who run the shows, including you, in the decisions you make and the way the show is run. Nevertheless, it does sometimes affect my desire to attend. * That said, if you value the work you started and championed for so long and the VCF community in general, I hope you can find a more constructive way to vent your frustrations about the the change in how the group is run and show specifics. From my vantage point, the tone and dismissive attitude in your notes concerning the group/show just tears down the entirety of the community, and I can't possibly think you're interested in personally dismantling the very idea/community you yourself helped to create. In time, of course, I hope everyone can make peace and move on, and I suspect now is too soon, but perhaps there's a more constructive path to pursue. I doubt anyone asked for the above information, so I apologize if it is unwanted. I realize some of this might be confusing in text form, and I also realize I did not attend the 2019 show, so perhaps things have radically changed and I'm unaware. Not that my opinion means anything, but I'm always happy to Zoom/Teams/Discord/BlueJeans/Skype/etc, with anyone on any of the above topics or for any reason. Jim
On Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 9:26 PM RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Since I'm quite a ways away (in Iowa) from many of the rest of the group, I'm not privy to all of the politics and such occurring here, but perhaps my thoughts will be seen as an "outsider's view":
* Bill Degnan: I'm not sure I understand the statement "VCF MW and VCF E are two different kinds of show." Are you referring to the fact that VCF-Midwest shares the name VCF with other shows but is not managed by the VCF Federation?
See comments below, with <snip>'s Is it that the show style is
significantly different than the other shows? (As Alexander notes, I think other VCF shows run the same was as Midwest). I worry about this continuing need to single out MW as a different thing. * I'll be honest. I attended at least 2 VCF-East shows, but skipped attending in the past few years, for the following reasons: o VCF East did not seem welcoming to hybrid exhibitor/seller folks like myself. While I have not attended the last few fests, the 2 I attended I was placed in the consignment room, which was a poor fit for many of us (Bob Applegate selling his new reproductions, the Model M KB restoration guy and a few others next to the pile of broken machines and stacks of old software titles). In all the fests, there are those who just want a sales table and some sell old stuff. but it felt demeaning to lump everyone who was selling something into 1 space, and a tiny space at that. Even if more current shows allow a larger space for sales, I still prefer to be in the exhibitor space.
<snip>
Jim
Ok now you asked for it. Excuse the rambling response as I shate the true history of MARCH and the Federation. Some people aren't going to like reading or wanting to believe some of this, but I am simply reporting the facts as I see them from my perspective. It's still a free country. If you disagree, prove me wrong. First of all, I was a co-founder of MARCH and I was on the first board of both MARCH and VCFed, for many years. Evan did not found the group, *we* all did, but from the beginning it was he who wanted to find a space in NJ as headquarters for an east coast VCF after Sellam gave up on what was then just *the* Vintage Computer Festival. It was Evan that put in the effort to run the mailing list and run VCFs. Others myself included ran the workshops in our homes and the first Festivus' or two while Evan concentrated on the VCFs and to secure the InfoAge space. Evan was not a fan of workshops, and basically I said, well then don't come. But we agreed let's all have a party 6 months after VCF so we have something to do in between the formal event. That's how Festivus started. We founders pretty much as quit in frustration for various reasons one by one and new people took over that seemed more interested in franchising "vintage computing" than fostering the community aspect of the original group. Not everyone but it was no longer the same with the new corporation and heavy handed attitude. But that happens I suppose. Ask yourself: why is there no club out west or north west? Here is the part that will ruffle some feathers...stop reading now if you dont want to hear some hard truths. Personally I thinks it's just how it was and is, objectively. I have nothing to gain here. Bottom line the board tricked Evan to give up his board position. I was vocal about this then, privately, but not publically. Evan accepted a paid position convinced he would have the same power but that was never the plan in my opinion. Turns out I was correct. That was the moment VCF became a business A few years later the vcf board created the local NJ committee placing Evan as a defacto team member, knowing full well he'd have no power, rub everyone the wrong way and quit or get kicked out. And guess what... the Infoage steering committee did the board's dirty work and took care of the Evan problem for the vcf board. You have to understand for a time Evan ran the bank accounts and essentially the MARCH name. For some this would not do! Well done I suppose but please everyone should acknowledge their role in this messed up drama. No one likes being a pawn or admitting that they were being manipulated. No one wants to be exposed. Maybe you dont care, even better. But can you blame Evan for being a little pissy and hard to work with? I was way more involved in MARCH before we became the Federation and I never really cared for the switch, and I quit after the transition for reasons that I'd rather not get into here. Jeff Brace took my place. I came back to the board for a while because I was promised a few things that never materialized and I left again, this time for good. I never liked the idea of controlling all of vintage computing and not supporting independents, nor refusing to promote one-off events. But my opinion was in the minority and it was Federation or be ignored. So I left and started Kennett Classic. No hard feelings. Other established groups resisted joining the Federation at that time so it's not really accurate to say everyone running a VCF is under one umbrella . Jason Timmons et al made a separate deal with Sellam to use the name vintage computer festival for the MW event, run independently, *prior* to the formation of VCFed. This why it's not under the Federation umbrella. The South East event was independent as well and is a little more connected to vCFed. The new VCF West and northwest shows were formed after Brutman and Erik Klein joined the board and they pretty much own them through the board. There is no "club" there just a shell for yearly vcf's. It's just business. The European VCFs are more or less independent but play along as they either dont care about the USA group or dont know better. Its loose at best. In the old days Sellam Ismail ran VCFs and he is the one who set the standard for how to do it. Back then there were all kinds of goings on it was a lot of fun. VCFMW is the closest thing to the original VCFs run by Sellam OPINION...I don't get why the NJ club needs the vcf corporate umbrella at all. The club *is* the group and should be independent. The old club part still exists because the members keep it alive but VCF leadership does not foster the club community they just own the artifacts and the logo. Otherwise there would be similar groups out west, right? It's the NJ club that made the west coast shows viable again. The board meetings were all about money and planning VCFs and complaining about Evan. I suppose no one cares about the breakdown of east vs west revenue, but suffice it to say it ain't even Maybe you can see why I started an independent thing in Kennett as did Dave McGuire. A lot of us said screw it we dont need to be franchised. MidWest is the most fun because its organic and the people are more laid back. There are three or four vintage-themed clubs that join together for the one event. Swap tables on top of exhibits on top of vendors is the way it goes. You can drink a beer or two at night and hang out and mess around with old computers, talk, listen to music and trade junk. It's more of a party and a workshop and a swap all in one. Here is a cynical thought experiment. What is preventing the board from planning to swipe the museum out of InfoAge and move it to a city like Philadelphia? Now that Evan is out of the picture the next phase could be to move the museum. Imagine when InfoAge asks for money or otherwise makes it easy to justify to pack up and leave. You running the InfiAge committee may watch as professional museum curators will assume possession of your hard work after years of collecting and restoring everything. It will be couched in "it's best for the artifacts and more people will get to see them..etc" yes/no? It remains to be seen. Youch I know, but ? I believe everyone needs to stop bickering about Evan and start asking more questions about this Federation, the bank accounts and apparently the lifetime appointments of the board members. Where are the elections for the real power? Find a way to bring Evan back into the fold, or Evan be the leader that made this group great and start another group. There are plenty of racquetball courts in NJ. Faithfully, Bill Degnan
I really appreciate this. Thank you for giving a clear understanding as to what went on behind the scenes that truly caused this rift. I hope everything works out. Anything I can do to help (which I realize I likely cannot), don’t hesitate to ask. Best, Laura Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Wednesday, November 11, 2020, 1:05 AM, Bill Degnan via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote: On Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 9:26 PM RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Since I'm quite a ways away (in Iowa) from many of the rest of the group, I'm not privy to all of the politics and such occurring here, but perhaps my thoughts will be seen as an "outsider's view":
* Bill Degnan: I'm not sure I understand the statement "VCF MW and VCF E are two different kinds of show." Are you referring to the fact that VCF-Midwest shares the name VCF with other shows but is not managed by the VCF Federation?
See comments below, with <snip>'s Is it that the show style is
significantly different than the other shows? (As Alexander notes, I think other VCF shows run the same was as Midwest). I worry about this continuing need to single out MW as a different thing. * I'll be honest. I attended at least 2 VCF-East shows, but skipped attending in the past few years, for the following reasons: o VCF East did not seem welcoming to hybrid exhibitor/seller folks like myself. While I have not attended the last few fests, the 2 I attended I was placed in the consignment room, which was a poor fit for many of us (Bob Applegate selling his new reproductions, the Model M KB restoration guy and a few others next to the pile of broken machines and stacks of old software titles). In all the fests, there are those who just want a sales table and some sell old stuff. but it felt demeaning to lump everyone who was selling something into 1 space, and a tiny space at that. Even if more current shows allow a larger space for sales, I still prefer to be in the exhibitor space.
<snip>
Jim
Ok now you asked for it. Excuse the rambling response as I shate the true history of MARCH and the Federation. Some people aren't going to like reading or wanting to believe some of this, but I am simply reporting the facts as I see them from my perspective. It's still a free country. If you disagree, prove me wrong. First of all, I was a co-founder of MARCH and I was on the first board of both MARCH and VCFed, for many years. Evan did not found the group, *we* all did, but from the beginning it was he who wanted to find a space in NJ as headquarters for an east coast VCF after Sellam gave up on what was then just *the* Vintage Computer Festival. It was Evan that put in the effort to run the mailing list and run VCFs. Others myself included ran the workshops in our homes and the first Festivus' or two while Evan concentrated on the VCFs and to secure the InfoAge space. Evan was not a fan of workshops, and basically I said, well then don't come. But we agreed let's all have a party 6 months after VCF so we have something to do in between the formal event. That's how Festivus started. We founders pretty much as quit in frustration for various reasons one by one and new people took over that seemed more interested in franchising "vintage computing" than fostering the community aspect of the original group. Not everyone but it was no longer the same with the new corporation and heavy handed attitude. But that happens I suppose. Ask yourself: why is there no club out west or north west? Here is the part that will ruffle some feathers...stop reading now if you dont want to hear some hard truths. Personally I thinks it's just how it was and is, objectively. I have nothing to gain here. Bottom line the board tricked Evan to give up his board position. I was vocal about this then, privately, but not publically. Evan accepted a paid position convinced he would have the same power but that was never the plan in my opinion. Turns out I was correct. That was the moment VCF became a business A few years later the vcf board created the local NJ committee placing Evan as a defacto team member, knowing full well he'd have no power, rub everyone the wrong way and quit or get kicked out. And guess what... the Infoage steering committee did the board's dirty work and took care of the Evan problem for the vcf board. You have to understand for a time Evan ran the bank accounts and essentially the MARCH name. For some this would not do! Well done I suppose but please everyone should acknowledge their role in this messed up drama. No one likes being a pawn or admitting that they were being manipulated. No one wants to be exposed. Maybe you dont care, even better. But can you blame Evan for being a little pissy and hard to work with? I was way more involved in MARCH before we became the Federation and I never really cared for the switch, and I quit after the transition for reasons that I'd rather not get into here. Jeff Brace took my place. I came back to the board for a while because I was promised a few things that never materialized and I left again, this time for good. I never liked the idea of controlling all of vintage computing and not supporting independents, nor refusing to promote one-off events. But my opinion was in the minority and it was Federation or be ignored. So I left and started Kennett Classic. No hard feelings. Other established groups resisted joining the Federation at that time so it's not really accurate to say everyone running a VCF is under one umbrella . Jason Timmons et al made a separate deal with Sellam to use the name vintage computer festival for the MW event, run independently, *prior* to the formation of VCFed. This why it's not under the Federation umbrella. The South East event was independent as well and is a little more connected to vCFed. The new VCF West and northwest shows were formed after Brutman and Erik Klein joined the board and they pretty much own them through the board. There is no "club" there just a shell for yearly vcf's. It's just business. The European VCFs are more or less independent but play along as they either dont care about the USA group or dont know better. Its loose at best. In the old days Sellam Ismail ran VCFs and he is the one who set the standard for how to do it. Back then there were all kinds of goings on it was a lot of fun. VCFMW is the closest thing to the original VCFs run by Sellam OPINION...I don't get why the NJ club needs the vcf corporate umbrella at all. The club *is* the group and should be independent. The old club part still exists because the members keep it alive but VCF leadership does not foster the club community they just own the artifacts and the logo. Otherwise there would be similar groups out west, right? It's the NJ club that made the west coast shows viable again. The board meetings were all about money and planning VCFs and complaining about Evan. I suppose no one cares about the breakdown of east vs west revenue, but suffice it to say it ain't even Maybe you can see why I started an independent thing in Kennett as did Dave McGuire. A lot of us said screw it we dont need to be franchised. MidWest is the most fun because its organic and the people are more laid back. There are three or four vintage-themed clubs that join together for the one event. Swap tables on top of exhibits on top of vendors is the way it goes. You can drink a beer or two at night and hang out and mess around with old computers, talk, listen to music and trade junk. It's more of a party and a workshop and a swap all in one. Here is a cynical thought experiment. What is preventing the board from planning to swipe the museum out of InfoAge and move it to a city like Philadelphia? Now that Evan is out of the picture the next phase could be to move the museum. Imagine when InfoAge asks for money or otherwise makes it easy to justify to pack up and leave. You running the InfiAge committee may watch as professional museum curators will assume possession of your hard work after years of collecting and restoring everything. It will be couched in "it's best for the artifacts and more people will get to see them..etc" yes/no? It remains to be seen. Youch I know, but ? I believe everyone needs to stop bickering about Evan and start asking more questions about this Federation, the bank accounts and apparently the lifetime appointments of the board members. Where are the elections for the real power? Find a way to bring Evan back into the fold, or Evan be the leader that made this group great and start another group. There are plenty of racquetball courts in NJ. Faithfully, Bill Degnan
o VCF East did not seem welcoming to hybrid exhibitor/seller folks like myself. While I have not attended the last few fests, the 2 I attended I was placed in the consignment room, which was a poor fit for many of us (Bob Applegate selling his new reproductions, the Model M KB restoration guy and a few others next to the pile of broken machines and stacks of old software titles). In all the fests, there are those who just want a sales table and some sell old stuff. but it felt demeaning to lump everyone who was selling something into 1 space, and a tiny
Oh man you missed it the last two years! The sales area is much larger, and hopping. And still the cool system where you can leave your stuff there and VCF takes care of it.
o I was not a fan of the exhibit/sales floor being closed for presentations. Yes, it presents some logistic challenges to run an exhibit or a sales table when a popular speaker is giving a
VCF isn't so large that the vendors and exhibitors aren't interested in the talks. You might see a large loss of attendence to the keynotes if the two are open together. If the keynote starts off while everything is closed then things open up but keynotes continue then you will have a huge exodus of people attending the keynote. This will look rude. Keynote being solo event also "forces" some people that might only be there for the sales or some particular subject to get a little education and it might expand their horizons!
o I especially abhorred the "we're closing at 5PM and not coming back to the show until tomorrow" mentality. Mind you, I am sure the VCF-E venue imposes some usage and scheduling restrictions, and I can understand any of that, but the tone was overbearing.
Open back up later for a mixer / gaming / party kind of thing after dinner? My possie usually does dinner then hits the Silverball Museum in Asbury Park. It's fantastic! I don't know that I personally would want to give that up but interesting point you make! Maybe more of a mixer type thing?
o Everything seemed so military in planning. None of the other shows I attend (and I attend VCF-SE, MW, Tandy Assembly, World of Commodore, CRX, CoCOFEST!, and have previously attended C4EXPO and LUCKI EXPO) seemed so regimented in comparison. Possibly some of this list may not think highly of VCF-MW, but it's pretty loose and every year it seems to have just enough
Every event has it's own flavor. I help with a large event that has a computer museum and arcade and stuff (23,00 attendees in 2020, over 1200 volunteers and staff) and with it -- the militarization tends to be department by department. The one where the department head is a lawer seems to be the most regimented. Unfortuantely the people that sit at the top of the event see that and want to duplicate it across other departments, and it might suck the fun out of it and they might shed volunteers. Some point in the middle is best. Well planned means easier execution day-of!!! Keep planning meetings short and sweet, use agenda lists and move through them quickly!!!! I cut the rest of your post but you made a lot of great points and pointed out a lot of good things to look at. It is important that each event has it's own feel but there is nothing wrong with drawing inspiration and building upon ideas. - Ethan
I am going to weigh in with my thoughts, addressing some of the issues and conjecture presented the past day and ignoring others. tldr; VCF Mid-Atlantic today is still awesome, you should show up and you will have fun. First, I am a current member of the VCF MidAtlantic Steering Committee. My seat is not up for re-election this year. I was invited to join the SteerCo as it's final, and tie-breaker member. I was excited and honored to accept and never looked back! I'm glad we had this airing of grievances before Festivus, fwiw. My history in VCF is short, but exciting. I was a lurker on the VCF forums for years, and one day in the waning of 2018 I decided to get involved. Wall NJ isn't that far from Philly, where I live. I joined the mailing list and found out about the upcoming Festivus. I enjoyed a wonderful year of Festivus 2018, VCF East 2019, the monthly repair workshops and Festivus 2019. I tried to attend every workshop, and I managed to almost do that. I often used them as a venue to git rid of a lot of my excess vintage gear, to talk and socialize, learn about VCF @ Info age oh and sometimes work on something I had. Camp Evans itself is a fascinating piece of history full of interesting groups, people and artifacts. All willing to share and talk if you take the time. Since being part of the SteerCo I have seen transformational changes in VCF-MA (i.e. the parts in Camp Evans (aka InfoAge). Those changes have happened for a simple reason- there were now a core group of _seven_ (steerCo + Corey and Jeff) people who were dedicating ridiculous amounts of their time (and even funds) to assess, prioritize, and execute on projects that needed doing. Not just one person, but seven. And we are setting up a transparent and accountable process to let everyone know what and how the steerco is going to do things and also to ensure outreach and ensure that any interested member can contribute. Even seven people isn't enough to make VCF a better place as fast as we wanted. I truly feel that anyone can contribute just as much or more than any steerCo member by doing a simple thing- showing up! Not only will you be able to meet and make some good friends you will be able to help in the myriad of jobs/tasks that we still need to get done to make VCF Museum an even more inviting place and a richer nexus for visitors and members alike. VCF-MA is more than ever involved in cooperation with other local orgs with similar mandates. Those are my thoughts and I'm sticking to them, -andy
I would definitely like to help where I can. Just let me know. Always been here. I live 15 min from Camp Evans. I do have more going on than I did in 2018, but I have a very flexible schedule. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Wednesday, November 11, 2020, 12:11 PM, Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote: I am going to weigh in with my thoughts, addressing some of the issues and conjecture presented the past day and ignoring others. tldr; VCF Mid-Atlantic today is still awesome, you should show up and you will have fun. First, I am a current member of the VCF MidAtlantic Steering Committee. My seat is not up for re-election this year. I was invited to join the SteerCo as it's final, and tie-breaker member. I was excited and honored to accept and never looked back! I'm glad we had this airing of grievances before Festivus, fwiw. My history in VCF is short, but exciting. I was a lurker on the VCF forums for years, and one day in the waning of 2018 I decided to get involved. Wall NJ isn't that far from Philly, where I live. I joined the mailing list and found out about the upcoming Festivus. I enjoyed a wonderful year of Festivus 2018, VCF East 2019, the monthly repair workshops and Festivus 2019. I tried to attend every workshop, and I managed to almost do that. I often used them as a venue to git rid of a lot of my excess vintage gear, to talk and socialize, learn about VCF @ Info age oh and sometimes work on something I had. Camp Evans itself is a fascinating piece of history full of interesting groups, people and artifacts. All willing to share and talk if you take the time. Since being part of the SteerCo I have seen transformational changes in VCF-MA (i.e. the parts in Camp Evans (aka InfoAge). Those changes have happened for a simple reason- there were now a core group of _seven_ (steerCo + Corey and Jeff) people who were dedicating ridiculous amounts of their time (and even funds) to assess, prioritize, and execute on projects that needed doing. Not just one person, but seven. And we are setting up a transparent and accountable process to let everyone know what and how the steerco is going to do things and also to ensure outreach and ensure that any interested member can contribute. Even seven people isn't enough to make VCF a better place as fast as we wanted. I truly feel that anyone can contribute just as much or more than any steerCo member by doing a simple thing- showing up! Not only will you be able to meet and make some good friends you will be able to help in the myriad of jobs/tasks that we still need to get done to make VCF Museum an even more inviting place and a richer nexus for visitors and members alike. VCF-MA is more than ever involved in cooperation with other local orgs with similar mandates. Those are my thoughts and I'm sticking to them, -andy
Yeah- just show up. I'm coming up Saturday for the day. No solid plans except be there and do some stuff. There is always _someone_ there cause the Museum has to be open Sat and Sunday, so just show up. But letting Jeff know never hurts! -andy
On Nov 11, 2020, at 2:42 PM, laurakid <laurakid7@yahoo.com> wrote:
I would definitely like to help where I can. Just let me know. Always been here. I live 15 min from Camp Evans. I do have more going on than I did in 2018, but I have a very flexible schedule.
ok 👍 Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Wednesday, November 11, 2020, 4:28 PM, Andrew Diller <dillera@gmail.com> wrote: Yeah- just show up. I'm coming up Saturday for the day. No solid plans except be there and do some stuff. There is always _someone_ there cause the Museum has to be open Sat and Sunday, so just show up. But letting Jeff know never hurts! -andy
On Nov 11, 2020, at 2:42 PM, laurakid <laurakid7@yahoo.com> wrote:
I would definitely like to help where I can. Just let me know. Always been here. I live 15 min from Camp Evans. I do have more going on than I did in 2018, but I have a very flexible schedule.
Ugh. Normally Saturdays are good but I have to clean out my living room so I can get rid of a large piece of Furniture. (It’s like warehouse work ;) ) Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Wednesday, November 11, 2020, 4:28 PM, Andrew Diller <dillera@gmail.com> wrote: Yeah- just show up. I'm coming up Saturday for the day. No solid plans except be there and do some stuff. There is always _someone_ there cause the Museum has to be open Sat and Sunday, so just show up. But letting Jeff know never hurts! -andy
On Nov 11, 2020, at 2:42 PM, laurakid <laurakid7@yahoo.com> wrote:
I would definitely like to help where I can. Just let me know. Always been here. I live 15 min from Camp Evans. I do have more going on than I did in 2018, but I have a very flexible schedule.
On 11/11/2020 9:35 AM, Ethan O'Toole wrote:
Oh man you missed it the last two years! The sales area is much larger, and hopping. And still the cool system where you can leave your stuff there and VCF takes care of it. I'm glad to hear. That said, such a setup is still non-ideal, since I don't have things I can just drop off to sell. Like Applegate and others, my stuff is rather technical to explain and typically requires interaction with the buyers. As well, I also use the products in conjunction with other stuff to exhibit something (using my Ethernet card on two machines to show IP networking between two C64s or showing off a ViC-20 65C816 CPU transplant using one of my PCBs.
VCF isn't so large that the vendors and exhibitors aren't interested in the talks. You might see a large loss of attendence to the keynotes if the two are open together. If the keynote starts off while everything is closed then things open up but keynotes continue then you will have a huge exodus of people attending the keynote. This will look rude. Keynote being solo event also "forces" some people that might only be there for the sales or some particular subject to get a little education and it might expand their horizons! I agree I was interested in the talks, but I am also interested in maximizing time to interact with potential customers. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that as "more time to make money", but I would always hear after the VCF-E show (on my 16 hour drive home most times) saying "Man Jim, I wish I'd have been able to connect with you at the show, I wanted to chat about your X and maybe get one.." I do agree opening the exhibits during the prezo is bad, but every other show I attend just has the exhibits open from hour 0 and so people make the decision about going to the prezo or not. *AND*, recently, I fire up my laptop and tune into the live feeds (for the last few years, all the shows have been livestreaming the prezos) at my exhibit, which is *ALMOST* like being in two places at once. As well, given how livestreams work, I can quickly back up and rewatch a point if I miss it while conversing with someone at the exhibit.
Open back up later for a mixer / gaming / party kind of thing after dinner? My possie usually does dinner then hits the Silverball Museum in Asbury Park. It's fantastic! I don't know that I personally would want to give that up but interesting point you make! Maybe more of a mixer type thing? Yep, I agree some folks hit the local arcades after the regular show, and some do really retire to their rooms and crash, but some of us like to have a "Hacker" fest type engagement at the show location after hours.
Every event has it's own flavor. I help with a large event that has a computer museum and arcade and stuff (23,00 attendees in 2020, over 1200 volunteers and staff) and with it -- the militarization tends to be department by department. The one where the department head is a lawer seems to be the most regimented. Unfortuantely the people that sit at the top of the event see that and want to duplicate it across other departments, and it might suck the fun out of it and they might shed volunteers. Some point in the middle is best. Well planned means easier execution day-of!!! Keep planning meetings short and sweet, use agenda lists and move through them quickly!!!! I suppose I should clarify my position. precision planning is not a bad thing, per se. I jsut felt that the show was less a "choose your own adventure" and more a guided tour, where every hours was essentially preplanned. I know there are folks who like that ("look ma, no decisions this weekend"), and there are those who are ambivalent ("whatever"), and then there's maybe just a few like me, who find the lack of options stifling, in spite of the fact that the current thing is exceedingly interesting. It's the lack of choice that is so frustrating.
I cut the rest of your post but you made a lot of great points and pointed out a lot of good things to look at. It is important that each event has it's own feel but there is nothing wrong with drawing inspiration and building upon ideas.
Of course, and my goal was simply to provide some additional data points, in case they are of interest. I wouldn't want VCF-E to become some limited mirror of another show, but there are some pieces I did want to point out (the vendor/exhibitor thing is probably the biggest one). I can't possibly wade into the political discussion, though I've made friends of Evan, Jeff, Corey, Bill, and some of the others, and it always pains me when my friend group isn't getting along. Jim
participants (7)
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Andrew Diller -
Bill Degnan -
Ethan O'Toole -
Evan Koblentz -
laurakid -
RETRO Innovations -
Tony Bogan