Re: [vcf-midatlantic] VCF Museum and Warehouse Update
Others, who visit sporadically, do not know what they are talking about. I barely know myself, despite 15 years of my visits to "the campus" of Infoage, because I have a dyslexia about "names". So building 9010 versus 9010B versus 9999 versus 9009 all. look. the same. names. to. me.
Yep, always been a problem. Even I get the numbers mixed up sometimes! Since this list doesn’t allow attachments I have to upload a detailed map so everyone can see It and access it. I finished it last night after work. It’ll go up and a link sent out tomorrow. We appreciate yours and everyone else’s patience as we make all of these major upgrades and announcements about them.
Please don't tell me "we aren't responsible for InfoAge's Web site". You are responsible for vcf.org. The only map there, shows a few buildings by function; no Army numbers.
We are not responsible for InfoAges website. ;-)
2) Tony announced, a move of the museum - again, buildings a little cryptic - from one section of a building to four sections of (maybe the same) a building. And a move of the warehouse, apparently to another building. (That kind-of was my last-straw about identifying InfoAge buildings.) Apparently the new-to-VCFed sites will need preparation. Apparently some funds will have to be raised.
This is good, this is great. But: it will take time, and volunteers. No timelines were stated.
The main point of the initial update was we are moving from 1/4 of a 6000+ square foot space to an ENTIRE 6000+ square foot space for our museum. Also, we are getting new warehouse space (and space better suited to our needs) We literally just got approval for the two new spaces. I apologize if we don’t yet have specific timelines for each stage of clearing, cleaning, construction and population of the spaces yet, but we are most certainly working on those now that we have actual approval to occupy the spaces. One step at a time, this was step one of many yet to come.
Meanwhile: VCF-East is Oct 8-10 - 60 days from today. Those who have participated, know how labor-intensive that can be.
That presents a conflict.
No conflict whatsoever. The warehouse and museum spaces are not integral parts of VCF east, and no change of Museum venue will happen anywhere‘s near this VCF east or next year’s. This is going to be a multi year endeavor, and we don’t want to put the cart before the horse.
Bottom line seems clear to me. What museum or warehouse work will be scheduled *before* Oct? Site work equals people-power equals more volunteers and more people-hours. Right? People will have to choose what to do and when. Right? They may want details.
For sure, people will want details. This was update number one. Announcing the fact that we now have access to two new spaces for our warehouse and our future Museum. Details of this nature are not usually in the initial announcement of the new acquisition of spaces. This announcement was about the acquisition of those spaces. I apologize if I was not detailed enough in my initial announcement. Subsequent updates will have more details. Warehouse work will commence as soon as possible, but again will not have any impact whatsoever on VCF East 2021 or 2022.
One hopes, VCFed won't be OBLIGED to move their Museum before Oct 2021. That would have consequences for the VCF-East visitors. Right? The Warehouse move "should not" impact VCF-East, but who knows? I'm just guessing
There was no mention of specific dates because there are none. Yet. There was no mention of VCF east because this announcement has no bearing on VCF east 2021 or 2022. We are not obliged to move our Museum space until our new museum space is done. Once we have done detailed assessments of the museum space, (some of which has already been done) identified exactly what our needs are, then get estimates for any construction that is beyond the volunteer level, We will then pass that information along to everyone. As soon as we know, everyone else will know.
On moving: I did computer site preparation professionally, when younger. I'm too old now to hustle boxes, sweat and crawl under buildings. But I'm not in charge. But I have an interest in the outcomes. and who knows? maybe there's work for an old person. If Covid permits; that too is uncertain, hard to plan for.
Great!! We will need all the help and advice we can get! And fortunately for you Herb, the buildings are on concrete slabs. No crawling underneath! Maybe some climbing around the rafters, but we will not ask you to do that!
Meanwhile: the next 60 days will likely force certain priorities. Let people know so they can make choices ahead of time. Seams reasonable.
Other than the fact that VCF East is not impacted by any of this, as I mentioned in the original email we will be reaching out to everyone so stay tuned for more updates. I’m glad you’re excited about the new spaces Herb, (I think you’re excited....) I know I am. Over 6000 square feet of museum space!! A better, slightly roomier, more accommodating warehouse space! (Bonus, closer down the hallways to our existing museum and the new space when finished will be closer still!!) Tony Bogan
Tony Bogan and Martin Flynn: Trying to get to only the points I raised, not about the entirety of VCF-East or the entirety of InfoAge's development plans. One issue I called out - was a site map, that people (as in vcfed.org email list readers) could find, to follow all the "Building 98.6A" references. Tony and Martin respond: http://compdecon.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/campus_map.jpg It works to identify building numbers. Good. No complaint for an immediate interim response. Thank you, Martin. A better map would reference organizations too. Um, it puts VCF in the CompDecon building. Also: Tony uses location terms like "Broadway" (a connecting hallway), some street names too. I'm giving feedback, OK? Maps are not easy to construct. You know: in the old days, one might have a "key" - a simple list that says "member organization .... building number(s)". I think adding that list to the map shown would be adequate. Related point: such a map ought to be findable by people on this vcfed-mid list. Logic suggests, that map ought to be "on" vcfed.org. Of course it could be housed and maintained anywhere, including compdecon.org. Just add links at vcfed.org and "talk" about it there. Then Google will find it and people from this list can find it, which is the point I raised. If it helps other Infoage groups, so much the better. Thank you. Point two. I suggested the building developments, might interfere with VCF-East preparations and operations, in the next 60 days. That really was my only point. Tony says, quoting fully his relevant response:
The warehouse and museum spaces are not integral parts of VCF east, and no change of Museum venue will happen anywhere‘s near this VCF east or next year’s. This is going to be a multi year endeavor ...
OK. The timeline and scope was not in Tony's first announcement. Tony in his replies, expanded the scope and suggested an 18-month or more timeline. I asked, and Tony addressed my immediate concern. Maybe others were concerned too, namely the ones who might be volunteers. Thank you. That said, Tony also said "Warehouse work will begin as soon as possible". Well, don't exhaust people working on VCF-East, please. As for "the museum is not an integral part of VCF-East". It's moot if the Museum is stable through early Oct 2021. But Museum tours with VCF-East add value to the event; for people who travel far it's their only opportunity. Ask previous attendees. again, that was my point. --------------------- So from what Tony adds, this is an Infoage "capital improvements" plan. From what I know, it's likely like other InfoAge plans which replaced roofs and wiring and structural changes plus interior work - done professionally and by volunteers. It's not just moving stuff and painting walls - which has also been Infoage work. All I can say, is that the more you inform people on this list, the more they can offer support and assistance. Raising funds and development of buildings and plans are matters outside the scope of this list. They may NOT be, outside the scope of some individuals on this list; so don't miss opportunities to attract such persons to the project. Tony said "I hope you are excited [Herb]." Well, I plan ahead. The result sounds great. But *executing the plan* is what gets you there.
“Thunder is good, thunder is impressive; but it is lightning that does the work.”
― Mark Twain
Congratulations and good luck. regards, Herb Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT comcast DOT net
The numbering scheme of the InfoAge facility has always baffled me, until I saw that map. Just seeing the numbering/lettering in context with everything else really helps -- thanks! -Alexander 'Z' Pierson On Monday, August 9, 2021, 1:03:35 AM EDT, Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote: Tony Bogan and Martin Flynn: Trying to get to only the points I raised, not about the entirety of VCF-East or the entirety of InfoAge's development plans. One issue I called out - was a site map, that people (as in vcfed.org email list readers) could find, to follow all the "Building 98.6A" references. Tony and Martin respond: http://compdecon.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/campus_map.jpg It works to identify building numbers. Good. No complaint for an immediate interim response. Thank you, Martin. A better map would reference organizations too. Um, it puts VCF in the CompDecon building. Also: Tony uses location terms like "Broadway" (a connecting hallway), some street names too. I'm giving feedback, OK? Maps are not easy to construct. You know: in the old days, one might have a "key" - a simple list that says "member organization .... building number(s)". I think adding that list to the map shown would be adequate. Related point: such a map ought to be findable by people on this vcfed-mid list. Logic suggests, that map ought to be "on" vcfed.org. Of course it could be housed and maintained anywhere, including compdecon.org. Just add links at vcfed.org and "talk" about it there. Then Google will find it and people from this list can find it, which is the point I raised. If it helps other Infoage groups, so much the better. Thank you. Point two. I suggested the building developments, might interfere with VCF-East preparations and operations, in the next 60 days. That really was my only point. Tony says, quoting fully his relevant response:
The warehouse and museum spaces are not integral parts of VCF east, and no change of Museum venue will happen anywhere‘s near this VCF east or next year’s. This is going to be a multi year endeavor ...
OK. The timeline and scope was not in Tony's first announcement. Tony in his replies, expanded the scope and suggested an 18-month or more timeline. I asked, and Tony addressed my immediate concern. Maybe others were concerned too, namely the ones who might be volunteers. Thank you. That said, Tony also said "Warehouse work will begin as soon as possible". Well, don't exhaust people working on VCF-East, please. As for "the museum is not an integral part of VCF-East". It's moot if the Museum is stable through early Oct 2021. But Museum tours with VCF-East add value to the event; for people who travel far it's their only opportunity. Ask previous attendees. again, that was my point. --------------------- So from what Tony adds, this is an Infoage "capital improvements" plan. From what I know, it's likely like other InfoAge plans which replaced roofs and wiring and structural changes plus interior work - done professionally and by volunteers. It's not just moving stuff and painting walls - which has also been Infoage work. All I can say, is that the more you inform people on this list, the more they can offer support and assistance. Raising funds and development of buildings and plans are matters outside the scope of this list. They may NOT be, outside the scope of some individuals on this list; so don't miss opportunities to attract such persons to the project. Tony said "I hope you are excited [Herb]." Well, I plan ahead. The result sounds great. But *executing the plan* is what gets you there.
“Thunder is good, thunder is impressive; but it is lightning that does the work.”
― Mark Twain
Congratulations and good luck. regards, Herb Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT comcast DOT net
That said, Tony also said "Warehouse work will begin as soon as possible". Well, don't exhaust people working on VCF-East, please.
Thank you Herb, we never thought of that! ;-)
As for "the museum is not an integral part of VCF-East". It's moot if the Museum is stable through early Oct 2021. But Museum tours with VCF-East add value to the event; for people who travel far it's their only opportunity. Ask previous attendees. again, that was my point.
The space Herb. The space is not an integral part of hosting Vcf East. Having people access and tour the museum is a no-brainer, We all split docent duties every VCF, but Drew always seems to end up doing the lions share!!! The point was the event takes place elsewhere on campus, so in addressing your original concerns I pointed this out. This isn’t our first rodeo, but it’s always good to have people keep us on our toes. Thank you.
So from what Tony adds, this is an Infoage "capital improvements" plan. From what I know, it's likely like other InfoAge plans which replaced roofs and wiring and structural changes plus interior work - done professionally and by volunteers. It's not just moving stuff and painting walls - which has also been Infoage work.
Hmmm.... this is a VCF expansion plan too. You’re right, it will be more than moving stuff and painting walls. First we need to put the walls up! :-) It’s a multi year plan that When completed will give us climate controlled warehouse space and a museum more than quadruple the size we have now. Difference is this will be done in our timeframe based on our resources and efforts, not InfoAge’s. Our future is literally in our hands now. The more we put out, the more we immediately get back.
All I can say, is that the more you inform people on this list, the more they can offer support and assistance. Raising funds and development of buildings and plans are matters outside the scope of this list. They may NOT be, outside the scope of some individuals on this list; so don't miss opportunities to attract such persons to the project.
For sure Herb, well said. This list has many pluses, not the least of which is the massive amount of knowledge, talent and generosity of the people on it. Rest assured we are aware of the importance of and appreciate the value within the VCF membership and community.
Tony said "I hope you are excited [Herb]." Well, I plan ahead. The result sounds great. But *executing the plan* is what gets you there.
Thanks Herb, I’m glad you are excited. (That does mean you are excited, yes? ;-)
“Thunder is good, thunder is impressive; but it is lightning that does the work.” ― Mark Twain
“Did you know, you were born on your birthday?” — Captain Obvious
Congratulations and good luck.
regards, Herb Johnson
Lots of work has been done to get to this point. Now the hard work begins. We will all need the good luck, this is a group effort that will need everyone’s input, assistance, whatever we can each do to help make this happen. Next time you and I meet at InfoAge Herb we will get together and talk. Always a pleasure to see you, we don’t get to do it often enough! Tony
Tony's responses and Flynn's map, resolved my immediate concerns about the expansion and its (non-)impacts on VCF-East 2021. I regret that my uninformed commentary about the expansion, created some confusion (which Tony worked to correct) before the organization is prepared to provide more details. My apologies for stepping on your toes, Tony. I'm almost done. I had reason to be concerned that the expansion might close the Museum during VCF-East 2021 - the reason was old history, and doesn't matter because Tony affirmed it won't be closed and is valuable to VCF-East. Regards, Herb Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT comcast DOT net
On 8/9/2021 1:01 AM, Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
it puts VCF in the CompDecon building. Also: Tony uses location terms like "Broadway" (a connecting hallway), some street names too. I'm giving feedback, OK? Maps are not easy to construct.
regards, Herb Johnson
Herb, Re the VCF pin being on the CDL building - the base map image is from Google, so to fix the the defective "pin" the Google account manager for VCF would need to be involved. As I said, this is an interim fix until such time as InfoAge addresses this issue with a standardized map with program descriptions *and* building numbers based on this: http://compdecon.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/tourmap_lineart_final-scaled... They are aware of this issue, (loops back around to Tony's statement on how the teams are all working together nowadays) and is being worked on in the background, so it's ready for inclusion in the VCF East program material. Martin
On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 7:10 AM Martin Flynn via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 8/9/2021 1:01 AM, Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
it puts VCF in the CompDecon building. Also: Tony uses location terms like "Broadway" (a connecting hallway), some street names too. I'm giving feedback, OK? Maps are not easy to construct.
regards, Herb Johnson
Herb,
Re the VCF pin being on the CDL building - the base map image is from Google, so to fix the the defective "pin" the Google account manager for VCF would need to be involved.
I will fix this. I will also put up any map on the VCFed.org that is created to aid in everyone's understanding of the building numbers. The military likes to number their buildings instead of giving them names ;) I didn't understand the building numbers when I was first there, but after 13 years I know many of them by heart since I am there on average once per week. And I need to refer to building numbers frequently when talking to people. There are still some buildings that I don't interact with and wonder where they are when people during operations meetings mention them. Having a map or just driving around and looking at the numbers on the sides of the buildings helped me. There have been various maps made by different people over the years, by VCF and others. I also know that there is a map handed to visitors at the InfoAge front desk that shows what each building is. But there can be an updated map on our VCF site showing where we are now, where we will be going, etc. It does help people to visualize when they have a map to refer to. The hard part is describing it like 9032-A ("Oh that's where we used to have our repair workshops and half of the VCF East exhibits and it's a large open room"). If anyone wants me to show you in person next time that you are there, I would be glad to point it all out.
As I said, this is an interim fix until such time as InfoAge addresses this issue with a standardized map with program descriptions *and* building numbers based on this:
http://compdecon.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/tourmap_lineart_final-scaled...
They are aware of this issue, (loops back around to Tony's statement on how the teams are all working together nowadays) and is being worked on in the background, so it's ready for inclusion in the VCF East program material.
Martin
Wait till you realize that every door in every building has an ID as well. The military leaves nothing to guess work... -andy
On Aug 10, 2021, at 12:36 AM, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 8/9/2021 1:01 AM, Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
giving feedback, OK? Maps are not easy to construct.
regards, Herb Johnson
The military likes to number their buildings instead of giving them names ;) I didn't understand the building numbers when I was first there, but after 13 years I know many of them by heart since I am there on average
participants (6)
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Alexander Pierson -
Andrew Diller -
Herb Johnson -
Jeffrey Brace -
Martin Flynn -
Tony Bogan