Idea for an Exhibit - Novell
To my knowledge no one has done an exhibit about Novell / Netware networking at least directly. I envision a simple file sharing network installed on some MS DOS 5-era machines, a simple email system, security features, etc to illustrate the product. As with VMS, Novell declined in usage when TCP/IP became dominant. Not a lot of people know that Novell helped commercialize SUSE Linux. There is a good story here, someone with experience with Novell should take it up. Bill
interesting note, Bill. A short story. I worked for a company in the nineties where we had both novell and VMS with DOS machines on the desktop. Our original implementation was we had DECNET (mostly LAT) installed on the PC along with Novell IPX. This of course consumed a lot of the precious little resources on a PC. Eventually we switched to only TCP/IP on the PC which then allowed connected to both Novell and VMS. Fun times Eugene ________________________________________ From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> on behalf of Bill Degnan via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 12:55 PM To: vcf-midatlantic Cc: Bill Degnan Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] Idea for an Exhibit - Novell To my knowledge no one has done an exhibit about Novell / Netware networking at least directly. I envision a simple file sharing network installed on some MS DOS 5-era machines, a simple email system, security features, etc to illustrate the product. As with VMS, Novell declined in usage when TCP/IP became dominant. Not a lot of people know that Novell helped commercialize SUSE Linux. There is a good story here, someone with experience with Novell should take it up. Bill
That sounds slot like my old environment at Simon & Schuster. We had a VAX running Pathworks, alongside a Netware 3.12 server and TCP/IP, IPX/SPX and SMB on the WfW 3.11 clients. On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 1:30 PM W2HX via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
interesting note, Bill. A short story. I worked for a company in the nineties where we had both novell and VMS with DOS machines on the desktop. Our original implementation was we had DECNET (mostly LAT) installed on the PC along with Novell IPX. This of course consumed a lot of the precious little resources on a PC. Eventually we switched to only TCP/IP on the PC which then allowed connected to both Novell and VMS.
Fun times Eugene
________________________________________ From: vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic-bounces@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> on behalf of Bill Degnan via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 12:55 PM To: vcf-midatlantic Cc: Bill Degnan Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] Idea for an Exhibit - Novell
To my knowledge no one has done an exhibit about Novell / Netware networking at least directly. I envision a simple file sharing network installed on some MS DOS 5-era machines, a simple email system, security features, etc to illustrate the product.
As with VMS, Novell declined in usage when TCP/IP became dominant. Not a lot of people know that Novell helped commercialize SUSE Linux.
There is a good story here, someone with experience with Novell should take it up.
Bill
Interesting idea... The first networking I ever did was with Novell. -J On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 12:55 PM, Bill Degnan via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
To my knowledge no one has done an exhibit about Novell / Netware networking at least directly. I envision a simple file sharing network installed on some MS DOS 5-era machines, a simple email system, security features, etc to illustrate the product.
As with VMS, Novell declined in usage when TCP/IP became dominant. Not a lot of people know that Novell helped commercialize SUSE Linux.
There is a good story here, someone with experience with Novell should take it up.
Bill
-- Jason Perkins 313 355 0085
i also worked in the 90s in a company where we had mixed Netware and NT servers. Netware for file and print as well as the connection between our AS/400 and the printers. NT for database and application servers. Then we went full windows and the fun began. "I deleted a file, can you recover it?" Um, no. Not anymore. Haha. Not until they added the functions into later versions with shadow copy and all that stuff. Was a lean few years there. Also funny where we had a TON of printing issues with our facilities with NT print servers and no issues with those with Netware printing from Citrix. Boiled down to windows trying to render the job three times as it passed through three windows spoilers and Netware was happy just to pass the job along without molesting it. That one extra windows queue was all it took on a slow WAN connection to break the job. Had to turn off the spooler on the clients, kind of defeating the purpose of having one. Oh fun times. But illustrative that it was less that Netware didnt play well with TCP/IP since it did just fine. It was more I think due to sheer might of Microsoft and the 'I can get everything from one vendor and make one call if things break' mindset along with the archaic looking interface for things like the file recovery consoles in Netware where, we'll on Windows NT at the time, you simply didn't have any. But also it all was GUI and you felt anyone could easily administer the servers even if your IT person quit. Of course those old text based consoles also made it very easy to remotely administer which was why they could get away with 1 IT person for 7 offices at the time. Once we went to all NT, we needed 5 people. On Wed, May 23, 2018, 1:32 PM Jason Perkins via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Interesting idea... The first networking I ever did was with Novell.
-J
On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 12:55 PM, Bill Degnan via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
To my knowledge no one has done an exhibit about Novell / Netware networking at least directly. I envision a simple file sharing network installed on some MS DOS 5-era machines, a simple email system, security features, etc to illustrate the product.
As with VMS, Novell declined in usage when TCP/IP became dominant. Not a lot of people know that Novell helped commercialize SUSE Linux.
There is a good story here, someone with experience with Novell should take it up.
Bill
-- Jason Perkins 313 355 0085
Interesting idea... The first networking I ever did was with Novell. -J
ArtSoft Lantastic here! Home soldered null modem cable. Then I think I moved to Lantastic on 10base2 NICs from the computer shows. It worked well for what I wanted (Ran a Telegard then Remote Access BBS.) Never played with Novell too much, except on the public library computers. And of course the IPX/SPX drivers for network games. Interesting how powerful Novell was (I knew some hardcore Novell fans) then it seemed to fade. - Ethan
Ethan O'Toole wrote:
ArtSoft Lantastic here! Home soldered null modem cable.
My first was Lantastic too. Running on ArcNet. Bill S. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
On 05/23/2018 02:29 PM, William Sudbrink via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Ethan O'Toole wrote:
ArtSoft Lantastic here! Home soldered null modem cable.
My first was Lantastic too. Running on ArcNet.
Bill S.
--- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
I did AT&T network support and I mostly had AT&T Starlan (SMB/ISO) but I do recall playing with IBM NetBEUI and having to solder. I think it was arcnet based hardware. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 9:44 AM, Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On 05/23/2018 02:29 PM, William Sudbrink via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Ethan O'Toole wrote:
ArtSoft Lantastic here! Home soldered null modem cable.
My first was Lantastic too. Running on ArcNet.
Bill S.
--- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
I did AT&T network support and I mostly had AT&T Starlan (SMB/ISO) but I do recall playing with IBM NetBEUI and having to solder. I think it was arcnet based hardware.
Another network protocol I wanted to exhibit someday was IBM's Token Ring. When I worked there in college I used to set up Token Ring networks for sales demos, driving up and down the State of Delaware from Wilmington to Salisbury. I did more than just Token Ring, everything they were selling in 1987 that could be fit into the back of a 1980 Toyota Tercel. Display Writers, PS/2's, Terminals, etc. Sometimes larger systems would be at the location waiting for me, like System 36's. b
I was just reminded of some spoof advertisement videos Novell had on their website back in 2002 which I downloaded. The "Flying Boy" one is a good chuckle IMO: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcFX6_3x7JTaiJeR49_8b6Sgy-nFwfOWn On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 9:56 AM, Bill Degnan via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 9:44 AM, Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On 05/23/2018 02:29 PM, William Sudbrink via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Ethan O'Toole wrote:
ArtSoft Lantastic here! Home soldered null modem cable.
My first was Lantastic too. Running on ArcNet.
Bill S.
--- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
I did AT&T network support and I mostly had AT&T Starlan (SMB/ISO) but I do recall playing with IBM NetBEUI and having to solder. I think it was arcnet based hardware.
Another network protocol I wanted to exhibit someday was IBM's Token Ring. When I worked there in college I used to set up Token Ring networks for sales demos, driving up and down the State of Delaware from Wilmington to Salisbury. I did more than just Token Ring, everything they were selling in 1987 that could be fit into the back of a 1980 Toyota Tercel. Display Writers, PS/2's, Terminals, etc. Sometimes larger systems would be at the location waiting for me, like System 36's. b
-- Jason Perkins 313 355 0085
Could be interesting. I have a fairly pristine copy of NetWare 3.12 I've been waiting to dust off, but it'll probably only go to a VM for me (I've divested most/all of my older PC hardware). If I don't do anything with it, I'll be happy to pass it on.
On May 23, 2018, at 12:55, Bill Degnan via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
To my knowledge no one has done an exhibit about Novell / Netware networking at least directly. I envision a simple file sharing network installed on some MS DOS 5-era machines, a simple email system, security features, etc to illustrate the product.
As with VMS, Novell declined in usage when TCP/IP became dominant. Not a lot of people know that Novell helped commercialize SUSE Linux.
There is a good story here, someone with experience with Novell should take it up.
Bill
I was a CNE for 3.1 in 95. I have my cert somewhere. I hated Novell as a company, but the OS was ok. While Novell treated us bad, Microsoft was sending us freebies getting us to certify in NT. I got certified in NT 3.51 by Microsoft for FREE. It was crazy back then. I'm kind of wondering what to show off? The only thing I can think of is a comparison of vintage "network operating systems" Back then you had Novell, Banyan Vines, Sun and Windows I think that would be a good comparison.
Interoperability? There were IPX drivers for Mac OS, too. You could demo cross-platform DOOM/Quake games or the like, among other things. DEC had a Pathworks package for IPX, too. - Dave
On May 23, 2018, at 2:04 PM, Christian Liendo via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
I was a CNE for 3.1 in 95. I have my cert somewhere. I hated Novell as a company, but the OS was ok.
While Novell treated us bad, Microsoft was sending us freebies getting us to certify in NT.
I got certified in NT 3.51 by Microsoft for FREE. It was crazy back then.
I'm kind of wondering what to show off?
The only thing I can think of is a comparison of vintage "network operating systems"
Back then you had Novell, Banyan Vines, Sun and Windows
I think that would be a good comparison.
The File System permissions model is still unmatched in 2018. Read, File scan, Write, Update, Delete, Rename, all as discrete permission bits -- The idea of a Write Only folder is an extraordinarily useful concept that seems to be lost to time. --Jason On 05/23/2018 11:04 AM, Christian Liendo via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
I was a CNE for 3.1 in 95. I have my cert somewhere. I hated Novell as a company, but the OS was ok.
While Novell treated us bad, Microsoft was sending us freebies getting us to certify in NT.
I got certified in NT 3.51 by Microsoft for FREE. It was crazy back then.
I'm kind of wondering what to show off?
The only thing I can think of is a comparison of vintage "network operating systems"
Back then you had Novell, Banyan Vines, Sun and Windows
I think that would be a good comparison.
On 05/23/2018 02:04 PM, Christian Liendo via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Back then you had Novell, Banyan Vines, Sun and Windows
Not even close! ;-) I had a Cisco network (T1s) and they had IP, XNS, PUP, DECnet, LAT, Novell (not the same as the XNS), Vines, and SNA (PU 2.0 and PU 2.1). I watched one person perform the equivalent of a shell script piping across DEC (VAX), SNA (a huge 390) and IP (Sun). I think this was 1992. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
participants (11)
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Anthony Becker -
Bill Degnan -
Christian Liendo -
David Riley -
Dean Notarnicola -
Ethan O'Toole -
Jason Howe -
Jason Perkins -
Neil Cherry -
W2HX -
William Sudbrink