Another Tandy 6000HD lives again! The hard drive had a bad head, and was replaced with a Seagate ST-251 (thank you, David Gesswein). The foil-and-foam Keytronics keyboard required a complete rebuild (disintegrating foam), and a Sun Type 4 keyboard was sacrificed to provide replacement pads. The Sun pads will no doubt eventually go as well, but they're from 1991 and in really good shape. The upper case was severely cracked in multiple places, and I did my best to stick it back together with MEK. Finally, I formatted the drive and installed Xenix 3.2 and the full development system from 8" diskettes. This system is going to the LSSM (Large Scale Systems Museum), for their new Unix workstation section. http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/Soltoff6000HD.jpg This particular machine was once owned by Roy Soltoff of MISOSYS. When I emailed him about it, he replied: "It probably was not used for anything much. Back in the late 80s, I had accumulated a few 16s and 6000 - but never did much with them. Most of the old equipment was sold off to someone in NJ for a computer museum." Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
Good work!
Most of the old equipment was sold off to someone in NJ for a computer museum." Anyone know anything about that?
On Mar 15, 2019, at 1:06 AM, Mike Loewen via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Another Tandy 6000HD lives again! The hard drive had a bad head, and was replaced with a Seagate ST-251 (thank you, David Gesswein). The foil-and-foam Keytronics keyboard required a complete rebuild (disintegrating foam), and a Sun Type 4 keyboard was sacrificed to provide replacement pads. The Sun pads will no doubt eventually go as well, but they're from 1991 and in really good shape. The upper case was severely cracked in multiple places, and I did my best to stick it back together with MEK. Finally, I formatted the drive and installed Xenix 3.2 and the full development system from 8" diskettes. This system is going to the LSSM (Large Scale Systems Museum), for their new Unix workstation section.
Beautiful job! Thanks for bringing this beast back to life to be shared with others to see. Did you install the Xenix Dev Sys from real floppies? That’s quite an accomplishment itself given the number of disks involved!
On Fri, 15 Mar 2019, Peter Cetinski wrote:
On Mar 15, 2019, at 1:06 AM, Mike Loewen via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Another Tandy 6000HD lives again! The hard drive had a bad head, and was replaced with a Seagate ST-251 (thank you, David Gesswein). The foil-and-foam Keytronics keyboard required a complete rebuild (disintegrating foam), and a Sun Type 4 keyboard was sacrificed to provide replacement pads. The Sun pads will no doubt eventually go as well, but they're from 1991 and in really good shape. The upper case was severely cracked in multiple places, and I did my best to stick it back together with MEK. Finally, I formatted the drive and installed Xenix 3.2 and the full development system from 8" diskettes. This system is going to the LSSM (Large Scale Systems Museum), for their new Unix workstation section.
Beautiful job! Thanks for bringing this beast back to life to be shared with others to see. Did you install the Xenix Dev Sys from real floppies? That?s quite an accomplishment itself given the number of disks involved!
Yep, all 14 disks. :-) From the IMD images in your repo. Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
Another Tandy 6000HD lives again! The hard drive had a bad head, and was replaced with a Seagate ST-251 (thank you, David Gesswein). The foil-and-foam Keytronics keyboard required a complete rebuild (disintegrating foam), and a
Very cool! I still have a set of original Xenix disks for one of those somewhere. It was on my to-find list for a while! So rare. As a young BBS'er I was fascinated that it could support 5 users at once via serial ports (based on the Tandy catalog.) - Ethan
On Fri, 15 Mar 2019, Ethan O'Toole wrote:
Another Tandy 6000HD lives again! The hard drive had a bad head, and was replaced with a Seagate ST-251 (thank you, David Gesswein). The foil-and-foam Keytronics keyboard required a complete rebuild (disintegrating foam), and a
Very cool! I still have a set of original Xenix disks for one of those somewhere. It was on my to-find list for a while! So rare. As a young BBS'er I was fascinated that it could support 5 users at once via serial ports (based on the Tandy catalog.)
I also have some original Xenix disks, but they're the awful Tandy brand disks and are unreadable. The oxide just peels right off when read. I suppose baking them might help, but it's not necessary (I have good disk images). Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
On Fri, 15 Mar 2019, Ethan O'Toole wrote:
Very cool! I still have a set of original Xenix disks for one of those somewhere. It was on my to-find list for a while! So rare. As a young BBS'er I was fascinated that it could support 5 users at once via serial ports (based on the Tandy catalog.)
Also, the 6000HD was where I learned Xenix. A friend of mine in Sumner, WA had one, and we wrote a multiuser BBS to run on it. Four phone lines and a constant stream of callers. Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
Also, the 6000HD was where I learned Xenix. A friend of mine in Sumner, WA had one, and we wrote a multiuser BBS to run on it. Four phone lines and a constant stream of callers.
Very cool! I was a huge graphics and music fan, so I liked BBSes that had good ANSI support. I ran Telegard originally then moved to Remote Access (because no one was running it) and modified the colors a ton. Plus a friend was an ansi artist in one of the groups so he would make me screens. Those days I wouldn't have been able to re-write the software to make it do ANSI well. Plus Unix term caps were kinda crazy. I really liked the multi-user chat on the Amiga C-Net software, but didn't like much else about it. Was never a PCBoard or MajorBBS fan really. TBBS is SEXY the way they coded it, but that was expensive and I was a little kid running a BBS full of demos and music files (and some HPAV text files ;-)
On Fri, 15 Mar 2019, Ethan O'Toole wrote:
Also, the 6000HD was where I learned Xenix. A friend of mine in Sumner, WA had one, and we wrote a multiuser BBS to run on it. Four phone lines and a constant stream of callers.
...
I really liked the multi-user chat on the Amiga C-Net software, but didn't like much else about it. Was never a PCBoard or MajorBBS fan really. TBBS is SEXY the way they coded it, but that was expensive and I was a little kid running a BBS full of demos and music files (and some HPAV text files ;-)
Our BBS was a room-based system like Citadel, but written from scratch. We had message areas and real-time multiuser chat, but no files at all. Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 01:06:10AM -0400, Mike Loewen via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
The foil-and-foam Keytronics keyboard required a complete rebuild (disintegrating foam), and a Sun Type 4 keyboard was sacrificed to provide replacement pads.
I have done the same steal pads to fix another keyboard since I didn't have the time to make them myself. If you hadn't heard about them this place sells ready to go pads. I bought a set to fix the donor but haven't tried them yet. https://texelec.com/product/foam-capacitive-pads-keytronic/
On Sat, 16 Mar 2019, David Gesswein wrote:
On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 01:06:10AM -0400, Mike Loewen via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
The foil-and-foam Keytronics keyboard required a complete rebuild (disintegrating foam), and a Sun Type 4 keyboard was sacrificed to provide replacement pads.
I have done the same steal pads to fix another keyboard since I didn't have the time to make them myself. If you hadn't heard about them this place sells ready to go pads. I bought a set to fix the donor but haven't tried them yet.
I just received a batch in the mail from her, for my next rebuild. I made up a batch of my own, but only a few of them worked. I've done this before on a Model II keyboard, with no problems. Weird. Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
I used a set of those at the last VCF workshop on an original Compaq portable. They did not work right. Someone told me that the foam was too thick. I get stuck key errors when I turn on the computer now. On Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 1:22 PM David Gesswein via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 01:06:10AM -0400, Mike Loewen via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
The foil-and-foam Keytronics keyboard required a complete rebuild (disintegrating foam), and a Sun Type 4 keyboard was sacrificed to provide replacement pads.
I have done the same steal pads to fix another keyboard since I didn't have the time to make them myself. If you hadn't heard about them this place sells ready to go pads. I bought a set to fix the donor but haven't tried them yet.
I can't comment on the Compaq, but I can confirm that the Texelec pads work on the Tandy 6000. A few of the pads were a little misshapen, but could be massaged into shape. The foil should be flat, but a little convex is okay. Most of the Texelec pads had a slight dome to them, but they work. On Sat, 16 Mar 2019, Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
I used a set of those at the last VCF workshop on an original Compaq portable. They did not work right. Someone told me that the foam was too thick. I get stuck key errors when I turn on the computer now.
On Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 1:22 PM David Gesswein via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 01:06:10AM -0400, Mike Loewen via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
The foil-and-foam Keytronics keyboard required a complete rebuild (disintegrating foam), and a Sun Type 4 keyboard was sacrificed to provide replacement pads.
I have done the same steal pads to fix another keyboard since I didn't have the time to make them myself. If you hadn't heard about them this place sells ready to go pads. I bought a set to fix the donor but haven't tried them yet.
Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
On 3/16/2019 1:22 PM, David Gesswein via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 01:06:10AM -0400, Mike Loewen via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
The foil-and-foam Keytronics keyboard required a complete rebuild (disintegrating foam), and a Sun Type 4 keyboard was sacrificed to provide replacement pads.
I have done the same steal pads to fix another keyboard since I didn't have the time to make them myself. If you hadn't heard about them this place sells ready to go pads. I bought a set to fix the donor but haven't tried them yet.
https://texelec.com/product/foam-capacitive-pads-keytronic/
.
Has anyone figured out a material which can be used to replace the original aluminized(?) paper discs from keytronic keyboards? The foam I know (vaguely) what type it originally was. I have four of them here (one kb3270 and three victor 9000 keyboards) where the foam has turned to goo and corroded away most of the metal on the discs, so I don't think they can be re-used. -- Jonathan Gevaryahu jgevaryahu@gmail.com jgevaryahu@hotmail.com
On Sat, 16 Mar 2019, Jonathan Gevaryahu via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On 3/16/2019 1:22 PM, David Gesswein via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 01:06:10AM -0400, Mike Loewen via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
The foil-and-foam Keytronics keyboard required a complete rebuild (disintegrating foam), and a Sun Type 4 keyboard was sacrificed to provide replacement pads.
I have done the same steal pads to fix another keyboard since I didn't have the time to make them myself. If you hadn't heard about them this place sells ready to go pads. I bought a set to fix the donor but haven't tried them yet.
https://texelec.com/product/foam-capacitive-pads-keytronic/
.
Has anyone figured out a material which can be used to replace the original aluminized(?) paper discs from keytronic keyboards? The foam I know (vaguely) what type it originally was.
I have four of them here (one kb3270 and three victor 9000 keyboards) where the foam has turned to goo and corroded away most of the metal on the discs, so I don't think they can be re-used.
Several people (me included) have used a "space blanket" from WalMart as the mylar layer. You have to make sure that the conductive side is attached to the foam. For whatever reason, the latest batch of pads I made didn't work (only about 10% success rate) on the Tandy 6000 keyboard. Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
On 3/17/2019 8:59 PM, Mike Loewen via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On Sat, 16 Mar 2019, Jonathan Gevaryahu via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On 3/16/2019 1:22 PM, David Gesswein via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 01:06:10AM -0400, Mike Loewen via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
The foil-and-foam Keytronics keyboard required a complete rebuild (disintegrating foam), and a Sun Type 4 keyboard was sacrificed to provide replacement pads.
I have done the same steal pads to fix another keyboard since I didn't have the time to make them myself. If you hadn't heard about them this place sells ready to go pads. I bought a set to fix the donor but haven't tried them yet.
https://texelec.com/product/foam-capacitive-pads-keytronic/
.
Has anyone figured out a material which can be used to replace the original aluminized(?) paper discs from keytronic keyboards? The foam I know (vaguely) what type it originally was.
I have four of them here (one kb3270 and three victor 9000 keyboards) where the foam has turned to goo and corroded away most of the metal on the discs, so I don't think they can be re-used.
Several people (me included) have used a "space blanket" from WalMart as the mylar layer. You have to make sure that the conductive side is attached to the foam.
For whatever reason, the latest batch of pads I made didn't work (only about 10% success rate) on the Tandy 6000 keyboard.
I'm not sure the original paper discs had any mylar on them at all, but I'm not certain. I've never for certain figured out what they were made of. Maybe some ex-keytronic employee knows...
Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
-- Jonathan Gevaryahu jgevaryahu@gmail.com jgevaryahu@hotmail.com
On Sun, 17 Mar 2019, Jonathan Gevaryahu via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On 3/17/2019 8:59 PM, Mike Loewen via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On Sat, 16 Mar 2019, Jonathan Gevaryahu via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On 3/16/2019 1:22 PM, David Gesswein via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 01:06:10AM -0400, Mike Loewen via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
The foil-and-foam Keytronics keyboard required a complete rebuild (disintegrating foam), and a Sun Type 4 keyboard was sacrificed to provide replacement pads.
I have done the same steal pads to fix another keyboard since I didn't have the time to make them myself. If you hadn't heard about them this place sells ready to go pads. I bought a set to fix the donor but haven't tried them yet.
https://texelec.com/product/foam-capacitive-pads-keytronic/
.
Has anyone figured out a material which can be used to replace the original aluminized(?) paper discs from keytronic keyboards? The foam I know (vaguely) what type it originally was.
I have four of them here (one kb3270 and three victor 9000 keyboards) where the foam has turned to goo and corroded away most of the metal on the discs, so I don't think they can be re-used.
Several people (me included) have used a "space blanket" from WalMart as the mylar layer. You have to make sure that the conductive side is attached to the foam.
For whatever reason, the latest batch of pads I made didn't work (only about 10% success rate) on the Tandy 6000 keyboard.
I'm not sure the original paper discs had any mylar on them at all, but I'm not certain. I've never for certain figured out what they were made of. Maybe some ex-keytronic employee knows...
See this thread: http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-64154.html Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
So, for someone who desperately needs to rebuild Model 2/12/16 keyboards and is not prepared to cut out discs by hand, what do I buy? Jim
On Sun, 17 Mar 2019, RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
So, for someone who desperately needs to rebuild Model 2/12/16 keyboards and is not prepared to cut out discs by hand, what do I buy?
Jim
https://texelec.com/product/foam-capacitive-pads-keytronic/ Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
Sacrificial Sun Type 4 keyboards are the easiest solution. The pads are ready to just pop right in to your Tandy keyboard, no gluing, etc necessary. Every Sun keyboard I’ve opened have had very good foam pads. I suspect it’s a combination of younger age and better quality foam. But the Sun enthusiasts will hate you. :) Pete
On Mar 17, 2019, at 10:36 PM, RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
So, for someone who desperately needs to rebuild Model 2/12/16 keyboards and is not prepared to cut out discs by hand, what do I buy?
Jim
On 3/17/2019 9:53 PM, Peter Cetinski wrote:
Sacrificial Sun Type 4 keyboards are the easiest solution. The pads are ready to just pop right in to your Tandy keyboard, no gluing, etc necessary. Every Sun keyboard I’ve opened have had very good foam pads. I suspect it’s a combination of younger age and better quality foam.
But the Sun enthusiasts will hate you. :)
Pete
On Mar 17, 2019, at 10:36 PM, RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
So, for someone who desperately needs to rebuild Model 2/12/16 keyboards and is not prepared to cut out discs by hand, what do I buy?
Jim
Yeah, not sure I want to kill a Sun KB to rob discs.
And, Mike L., I knew about the Texelec, but I saw in here folks saying they don't always work. I read the thread linked and it looks like Sara has been refining the product, so perhaps the issues are gone? Jim -- RETRO Innovations, Contemporary Gear for Classic Systems www.go4retro.com store.go4retro.com
I just ordered some for my Model 16 keyboard. I'll let you know how they work out. Dean On Sun, Mar 17, 2019 at 11:09 PM RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 3/17/2019 9:53 PM, Peter Cetinski wrote:
Sacrificial Sun Type 4 keyboards are the easiest solution. The pads are ready to just pop right in to your Tandy keyboard, no gluing, etc necessary. Every Sun keyboard I’ve opened have had very good foam pads. I suspect it’s a combination of younger age and better quality foam.
But the Sun enthusiasts will hate you. :)
Pete
On Mar 17, 2019, at 10:36 PM, RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
So, for someone who desperately needs to rebuild Model 2/12/16 keyboards and is not prepared to cut out discs by hand, what do I buy?
Jim
Yeah, not sure I want to kill a Sun KB to rob discs.
And, Mike L., I knew about the Texelec, but I saw in here folks saying they don't always work. I read the thread linked and it looks like Sara has been refining the product, so perhaps the issues are gone?
Jim
-- RETRO Innovations, Contemporary Gear for Classic Systems www.go4retro.com store.go4retro.com
One additional observation when making your own. Your mileage may vary between Model II/16 and 12/16B/6000. I’ve previously custom manufactured pads using space blanket material which worked fine in a MII keyboard but were flaky in a M12 keyboard. I end up reusing the “mylar” discs from the old pads if possible now. Although I have seen cases where those discs are worn out and no longer work effectively. If anyone knows of a good document on the science of how these keyboards work, I’d appreciate a link. Pete
On Mar 17, 2019, at 11:26 PM, Dean Notarnicola <dnotarnicola@gmail.com> wrote:
I just ordered some for my Model 16 keyboard. I'll let you know how they work out.
Dean
On Sun, Mar 17, 2019 at 11:09 PM RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote: On 3/17/2019 9:53 PM, Peter Cetinski wrote:
Sacrificial Sun Type 4 keyboards are the easiest solution. The pads are ready to just pop right in to your Tandy keyboard, no gluing, etc necessary. Every Sun keyboard I’ve opened have had very good foam pads. I suspect it’s a combination of younger age and better quality foam.
But the Sun enthusiasts will hate you. :)
Pete
On Mar 17, 2019, at 10:36 PM, RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
So, for someone who desperately needs to rebuild Model 2/12/16 keyboards and is not prepared to cut out discs by hand, what do I buy?
Jim
Yeah, not sure I want to kill a Sun KB to rob discs.
And, Mike L., I knew about the Texelec, but I saw in here folks saying they don't always work. I read the thread linked and it looks like Sara has been refining the product, so perhaps the issues are gone?
Jim
-- RETRO Innovations, Contemporary Gear for Classic Systems www.go4retro.com store.go4retro.com
On 3/17/2019 11:08 PM, RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On 3/17/2019 9:53 PM, Peter Cetinski wrote:
Sacrificial Sun Type 4 keyboards are the easiest solution. The pads are ready to just pop right in to your Tandy keyboard, no gluing, etc necessary. Every Sun keyboard I’ve opened have had very good foam pads. I suspect it’s a combination of younger age and better quality foam.
But the Sun enthusiasts will hate you. :)
Pete
On Mar 17, 2019, at 10:36 PM, RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
So, for someone who desperately needs to rebuild Model 2/12/16 keyboards and is not prepared to cut out discs by hand, what do I buy?
Jim
Yeah, not sure I want to kill a Sun KB to rob discs.
And, Mike L., I knew about the Texelec, but I saw in here folks saying they don't always work. I read the thread linked and it looks like Sara has been refining the product, so perhaps the issues are gone?
Jim
After reading the whole thread linked, it seems the materials of the original discs are now known: Its a thin layer of mylar, with a layer of aluminum deposited on top of it, and another layer of mylar deposited on top of that. -- Jonathan Gevaryahu jgevaryahu@gmail.com jgevaryahu@hotmail.com
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Gesswein via vcf-midatlantic" <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> To: mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us, "vcf-midatlantic" <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Cc: "David Gesswein" <djg@pdp8online.com> Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2019 1:22:07 PM Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Tandy 6000HD lives! On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 01:06:10AM -0400, Mike Loewen via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
The foil-and-foam Keytronics keyboard required a complete rebuild (disintegrating foam), and a Sun Type 4 keyboard was sacrificed to provide replacement pads.
I have done the same steal pads to fix another keyboard since I didn't have the time to make them myself. If you hadn't heard about them this place sells ready to go pads. I bought a set to fix the donor but haven't tried them yet. https://texelec.com/product/foam-capacitive-pads-keytronic/
participants (11)
-
abodnar＠zoominternet.net -
David Gesswein -
Dean Notarnicola -
Douglas Crawford -
Ethan O'Toole -
Evan Koblentz -
Jonathan Gevaryahu -
jsalzman＠gmail.com -
Mike Loewen -
Peter Cetinski -
RETRO Innovations