Greenbar printout DONE!
Much thanks to Mike Loewen for being able to printout and ship the printouts to LA! The production designer for a small independent filmmaker contacted me for a film about Margaret Hamilton's work on the Apollo 8 mission. Jeff Brace ========================================= Vice President & Board Member Vintage Computer Festival East Show-runner Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity http://www.vcfed.org/ jeffrey@vcfed.org cell: 732-759-1783
Fascinating reading about you guys jumping into the fray to deliver this greenbar printout. Congratulations! FWIW, I have two or three old printers in my attic. I know at least one is a little (Epson?) dot matrix. No memory of the others, but one is a "large" desktop printer, similar in size (but not printhead) to an IBM Selectric typewriter. We're talking about printers that were run on IBM PC or clones back as far as the early '90's. But my real reaction was: Why not fake it? Modern printers can routinely print 1200 dpi, so virtually any character set could be created -- including errors such as vertical offsets I believe someone mentioned. Greenbar paper might be a bit harder to fake, but if any color printers available in print centers can handle fan-fold, they could print the bars and the text simultaneously. Bruce NJ On Sat, Feb 27, 2021 at 11:09 PM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Much thanks to Mike Loewen for being able to printout and ship the printouts to LA!
The production designer for a small independent filmmaker contacted me for a film about Margaret Hamilton's work on the Apollo 8 mission.
Jeff Brace ========================================= Vice President & Board Member Vintage Computer Festival East Show-runner Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity http://www.vcfed.org/ jeffrey@vcfed.org cell: 732-759-1783
One issue that I noted yesterday messing with the paper- the track-feed area of the wide-green-bar is not perforated and does not come off like the 8.5x11 tractor feed I was used to. So any period authentic bound print-out, wether dot matrix or drum, would still have the tractor holes on it- so that would mean you'd have to have a wide-format laser printer that would accept the fan-fold paper. Maybe not impossible, but... at least as annoying as trying to hook up some vintage printers :) Also remind me to never get into a printer competition with Mike Loewen, those are some monster printers I saw on that page (for having at your house)... -andy
On Feb 28, 2021, at 8:53 AM, Bruce via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Fascinating reading about you guys jumping into the fray to deliver this greenbar printout. Congratulations!
FWIW, I have two or three old printers in my attic. I know at least one is a little (Epson?) dot matrix. No memory of the others, but one is a "large" desktop printer, similar in size (but not printhead) to an IBM Selectric typewriter. We're talking about printers that were run on IBM PC or clones back as far as the early '90's.
But my real reaction was: Why not fake it? Modern printers can routinely print 1200 dpi, so virtually any character set could be created -- including errors such as vertical offsets I believe someone mentioned. Greenbar paper might be a bit harder to fake, but if any color printers available in print centers can handle fan-fold, they could print the bars and the text simultaneously.
Bruce NJ
On Sat, Feb 27, 2021 at 11:09 PM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Much thanks to Mike Loewen for being able to printout and ship the printouts to LA!
The production designer for a small independent filmmaker contacted me for a film about Margaret Hamilton's work on the Apollo 8 mission.
Jeff Brace ========================================= Vice President & Board Member Vintage Computer Festival East Show-runner Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity http://www.vcfed.org/ jeffrey@vcfed.org cell: 732-759-1783
They say loud irritating noises keep rodents away... so there's that. :) On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 9:07 AM Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Also remind me to never get into a printer competition with Mike Loewen, those are some monster printers I saw on that page (for having at your house)...
Eak!!! On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 12:32 PM Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
They say loud irritating noises keep rodents away... so there's that. :)
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 9:07 AM Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Also remind me to never get into a printer competition with Mike Loewen, those are some monster printers I saw on that page (for having at your house)...
FYI - Here is a post I made with a quick how-to print ascii files the DecWriter II, back in 2014 https://www.vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=557 Bill On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 12:38 PM Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Eak!!!
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 12:32 PM Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
They say loud irritating noises keep rodents away... so there's that. :)
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 9:07 AM Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Also remind me to never get into a printer competition with Mike
Loewen,
those are some monster printers I saw on that page (for having at your house)...
OK that is useful. I am going to try to get some PC (one of the compaq luggables) setup at VCF w/ networking (mTCP) and wordPerfect. Then tested to print to a VCF decwriter and some parallel printer (daisy wheel). Speaking of such, I will request that if any members have a compatible card for mTCP: Novell NE1000, NE2000 and clones 3Com 3C503 WD/SMC 8003 series Intel EtherExpress 8/16 Davicom DM9008F Would they consider donating an extra to VCF for this effort? I'm not aware of any cards at VCF for this. If you coming to VCF repair day please consider bringing it! Thanks. -andy
On Feb 28, 2021, at 12:43 PM, Bill Degnan via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
FYI - Here is a post I made with a quick how-to print ascii files the DecWriter II, back in 2014 https://www.vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=557 Bill
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 12:38 PM Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Eak!!!
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 12:32 PM Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
They say loud irritating noises keep rodents away... so there's that. :)
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 9:07 AM Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Also remind me to never get into a printer competition with Mike
Loewen,
those are some monster printers I saw on that page (for having at your house)...
Andy, 3COM ETHERLINK III 3C509B-TP work? Martin On 2/28/2021 1:06 PM, Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
OK that is useful. I am going to try to get some PC (one of the compaq luggables) setup at VCF w/ networking (mTCP) and wordPerfect. Then tested to print to a VCF decwriter and some parallel printer (daisy wheel).
Speaking of such, I will request that if any members have a compatible card for mTCP:
Novell NE1000, NE2000 and clones 3Com 3C503 WD/SMC 8003 series Intel EtherExpress 8/16 Davicom DM9008F
Would they consider donating an extra to VCF for this effort? I'm not aware of any cards at VCF for this. If you coming to VCF repair day please consider bringing it!
Thanks.
-andy
On Feb 28, 2021, at 12:43 PM, Bill Degnan via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
FYI - Here is a post I made with a quick how-to print ascii files the DecWriter II, back in 2014 https://www.vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=557 Bill
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 12:38 PM Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Eak!!!
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 12:32 PM Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
They say loud irritating noises keep rodents away... so there's that. :)
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 9:07 AM Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Also remind me to never get into a printer competition with Mike Loewen, those are some monster printers I saw on that page (for having at your house)...
Good question. MikeB would know, I can only test it :) I have not used mTCP before but hope to get something on the network, because getting the data for print-outs is the other half of the problem... -andy
On Feb 28, 2021, at 1:13 PM, Martin Flynn via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Andy,
3COM ETHERLINK III 3C509B-TP work?
Martin
On 2/28/2021 1:06 PM, Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
OK that is useful. I am going to try to get some PC (one of the compaq luggables) setup at VCF w/ networking (mTCP) and wordPerfect. Then tested to print to a VCF decwriter and some parallel printer (daisy wheel).
Speaking of such, I will request that if any members have a compatible card for mTCP:
Novell NE1000, NE2000 and clones 3Com 3C503 WD/SMC 8003 series Intel EtherExpress 8/16 Davicom DM9008F
Would they consider donating an extra to VCF for this effort? I'm not aware of any cards at VCF for this. If you coming to VCF repair day please consider bringing it!
Thanks.
-andy
On Feb 28, 2021, at 12:43 PM, Bill Degnan via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
FYI - Here is a post I made with a quick how-to print ascii files the DecWriter II, back in 2014 https://www.vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=557 Bill
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 12:38 PM Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Eak!!!
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 12:32 PM Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
They say loud irritating noises keep rodents away... so there's that. :)
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 9:07 AM Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Also remind me to never get into a printer competition with Mike Loewen, those are some monster printers I saw on that page (for having at your house)...
Will toss it into the truck for the next trip south just in case - will leave on top the server rack in CDL for pickup. martin On 2/28/2021 1:17 PM, Andrew Diller wrote:
Good question. MikeB would know, I can only test it :)
I have not used mTCP before but hope to get something on the network, because getting the data for print-outs is the other half of the problem...
-andy
On Feb 28, 2021, at 1:13 PM, Martin Flynn via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Andy,
3COM ETHERLINK III 3C509B-TP work?
Martin
On 2/28/2021 1:06 PM, Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
OK that is useful. I am going to try to get some PC (one of the compaq luggables) setup at VCF w/ networking (mTCP) and wordPerfect. Then tested to print to a VCF decwriter and some parallel printer (daisy wheel).
Speaking of such, I will request that if any members have a compatible card for mTCP:
Novell NE1000, NE2000 and clones 3Com 3C503 WD/SMC 8003 series Intel EtherExpress 8/16 Davicom DM9008F
Would they consider donating an extra to VCF for this effort? I'm not aware of any cards at VCF for this. If you coming to VCF repair day please consider bringing it!
Thanks.
-andy
On Feb 28, 2021, at 12:43 PM, Bill Degnan via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
FYI - Here is a post I made with a quick how-to print ascii files the DecWriter II, back in 2014 https://www.vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=557 Bill
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 12:38 PM Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Eak!!!
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 12:32 PM Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
They say loud irritating noises keep rodents away... so there's that. :)
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 9:07 AM Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
> Also remind me to never get into a printer competition with Mike Loewen, > those are some monster printers I saw on that page (for having at your > house)... > >
Any card with a packet driver should work. Back in the day, we got many cheap ne2000 clones to work with Microsoft TCP/IP 1.0a. On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 1:21 PM Martin Flynn via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Will toss it into the truck for the next trip south just in case - will leave on top the server rack in CDL for pickup.
martin
On 2/28/2021 1:17 PM, Andrew Diller wrote:
Good question. MikeB would know, I can only test it :)
I have not used mTCP before but hope to get something on the network, because getting the data for print-outs is the other half of the problem...
-andy
On Feb 28, 2021, at 1:13 PM, Martin Flynn via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Andy,
3COM ETHERLINK III 3C509B-TP work?
Martin
On 2/28/2021 1:06 PM, Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
OK that is useful. I am going to try to get some PC (one of the compaq luggables) setup at VCF w/ networking (mTCP) and wordPerfect. Then tested to print to a VCF decwriter and some parallel printer (daisy wheel).
Speaking of such, I will request that if any members have a compatible card for mTCP:
Novell NE1000, NE2000 and clones 3Com 3C503 WD/SMC 8003 series Intel EtherExpress 8/16 Davicom DM9008F
Would they consider donating an extra to VCF for this effort? I'm not aware of any cards at VCF for this. If you coming to VCF repair day please consider bringing it!
Thanks.
-andy
On Feb 28, 2021, at 12:43 PM, Bill Degnan via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
FYI - Here is a post I made with a quick how-to print ascii files the DecWriter II, back in 2014 https://www.vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=557 Bill
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 12:38 PM Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Eak!!!
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 12:32 PM Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
> They say loud irritating noises keep rodents away... so there's that. :) > > On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 9:07 AM Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > >> Also remind me to never get into a printer competition with Mike Loewen, >> those are some monster printers I saw on that page (for having at your >> house)... >> >>
All you need is a card with a packet driver. A card from the list you have there should be readily available. You can also use a packet driver "shim" on top of ODI drivers for later cards. Contact me directly if you have problems, including weird crashes or performance problems. It is almost always hardware or a noisy network, but I still like to root cause the problems and help fix them. mTCP has a fairly comprehensive trace and debugging mechanism built into it. (The most recent tricky problem was somebody using a packet driver shim on top of ODI drivers; the ODI layer did not have enough available buffers so at small MTU settings and high speeds it was dropping packets, which was horrible for performance. Increasing the buffers at the ODI layer made the machine run at full speed, which was over 850KB/sec sending and receiving on a 386-40.) On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 10:25 AM Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Any card with a packet driver should work. Back in the day, we got many cheap ne2000 clones to work with Microsoft TCP/IP 1.0a.
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 1:21 PM Martin Flynn via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Will toss it into the truck for the next trip south just in case - will leave on top the server rack in CDL for pickup.
martin
On 2/28/2021 1:17 PM, Andrew Diller wrote:
Good question. MikeB would know, I can only test it :)
I have not used mTCP before but hope to get something on the network, because getting the data for print-outs is the other half of the problem...
-andy
On Feb 28, 2021, at 1:13 PM, Martin Flynn via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Andy,
3COM ETHERLINK III 3C509B-TP work?
Martin
On 2/28/2021 1:06 PM, Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
OK that is useful. I am going to try to get some PC (one of the compaq luggables) setup at VCF w/ networking (mTCP) and wordPerfect. Then tested to print to a VCF decwriter and some parallel printer (daisy wheel).
Speaking of such, I will request that if any members have a compatible card for mTCP:
Novell NE1000, NE2000 and clones 3Com 3C503 WD/SMC 8003 series Intel EtherExpress 8/16 Davicom DM9008F
Would they consider donating an extra to VCF for this effort? I'm not aware of any cards at VCF for this. If you coming to VCF repair day please consider bringing it!
Thanks.
-andy
On Feb 28, 2021, at 12:43 PM, Bill Degnan via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
FYI - Here is a post I made with a quick how-to print ascii files the DecWriter II, back in 2014 https://www.vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=557 Bill
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 12:38 PM Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
> Eak!!! > > On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 12:32 PM Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > >> They say loud irritating noises keep rodents away... so there's that. :) >> >> On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 9:07 AM Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < >> vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote: >> >>> Also remind me to never get into a printer competition with Mike > Loewen, >>> those are some monster printers I saw on that page (for having at your >>> house)... >>> >>>
TIL that mTCP exists, and I’m quite excited to try it out soon! I had older DOS+Win3.11 lab machines I had to run FTP Software’s TCPonnet stack for and I don’t remember it being pleasant or performant. I’d set it up once on a PC at home like 15 years ago and was like “nope.” mTCP looks like just the thing. -- Jameel Akari
On Feb 28, 2021, at 4:23 PM, Michael Brutman via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
All you need is a card with a packet driver. A card from the list you have there should be readily available. You can also use a packet driver "shim" on top of ODI drivers for later cards.
Contact me directly if you have problems, including weird crashes or performance problems. It is almost always hardware or a noisy network, but I still like to root cause the problems and help fix them. mTCP has a fairly comprehensive trace and debugging mechanism built into it.
(The most recent tricky problem was somebody using a packet driver shim on top of ODI drivers; the ODI layer did not have enough available buffers so at small MTU settings and high speeds it was dropping packets, which was horrible for performance. Increasing the buffers at the ODI layer made the machine run at full speed, which was over 850KB/sec sending and receiving on a 386-40.)
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 10:25 AM Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Any card with a packet driver should work. Back in the day, we got many cheap ne2000 clones to work with Microsoft TCP/IP 1.0a.
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 1:21 PM Martin Flynn via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Will toss it into the truck for the next trip south just in case - will leave on top the server rack in CDL for pickup.
martin
On 2/28/2021 1:17 PM, Andrew Diller wrote:
Good question. MikeB would know, I can only test it :)
I have not used mTCP before but hope to get something on the network, because getting the data for print-outs is the other half of the problem...
-andy
On Feb 28, 2021, at 1:13 PM, Martin Flynn via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Andy,
3COM ETHERLINK III 3C509B-TP work?
Martin
On 2/28/2021 1:06 PM, Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
OK that is useful. I am going to try to get some PC (one of the compaq luggables) setup at VCF w/ networking (mTCP) and wordPerfect. Then tested to print to a VCF decwriter and some parallel printer (daisy wheel).
Speaking of such, I will request that if any members have a compatible card for mTCP:
Novell NE1000, NE2000 and clones 3Com 3C503 WD/SMC 8003 series Intel EtherExpress 8/16 Davicom DM9008F
Would they consider donating an extra to VCF for this effort? I'm not aware of any cards at VCF for this. If you coming to VCF repair day please consider bringing it!
Thanks.
-andy
> On Feb 28, 2021, at 12:43 PM, Bill Degnan via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > FYI - Here is a post I made with a quick how-to print ascii files the > DecWriter II, back in 2014 > https://www.vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=557 > Bill > > On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 12:38 PM Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > >> Eak!!! >> >> On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 12:32 PM Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic < >> vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote: >> >>> They say loud irritating noises keep rodents away... so there's that. :) >>> >>> On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 9:07 AM Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < >>> vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Also remind me to never get into a printer competition with Mike >> Loewen, >>>> those are some monster printers I saw on that page (for having at your >>>> house)... >>>> >>>>
Or just get a wifi modem if you have 2 serial ports On Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 4:23 PM Michael Brutman via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
All you need is a card with a packet driver. A card from the list you have there should be readily available. You can also use a packet driver "shim" on top of ODI drivers for later cards.
Contact me directly if you have problems, including weird crashes or performance problems. It is almost always hardware or a noisy network, but I still like to root cause the problems and help fix them. mTCP has a fairly comprehensive trace and debugging mechanism built into it.
(The most recent tricky problem was somebody using a packet driver shim on top of ODI drivers; the ODI layer did not have enough available buffers so at small MTU settings and high speeds it was dropping packets, which was horrible for performance. Increasing the buffers at the ODI layer made the machine run at full speed, which was over 850KB/sec sending and receiving on a 386-40.)
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 10:25 AM Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Any card with a packet driver should work. Back in the day, we got many cheap ne2000 clones to work with Microsoft TCP/IP 1.0a.
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 1:21 PM Martin Flynn via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Will toss it into the truck for the next trip south just in case - will leave on top the server rack in CDL for pickup.
martin
On 2/28/2021 1:17 PM, Andrew Diller wrote:
Good question. MikeB would know, I can only test it :)
I have not used mTCP before but hope to get something on the network, because getting the data for print-outs is the other half of the problem...
-andy
On Feb 28, 2021, at 1:13 PM, Martin Flynn via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Andy,
3COM ETHERLINK III 3C509B-TP work?
Martin
On 2/28/2021 1:06 PM, Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
OK that is useful. I am going to try to get some PC (one of the compaq luggables) setup at VCF w/ networking (mTCP) and wordPerfect. Then tested to print to a VCF decwriter and some parallel printer (daisy wheel).
Speaking of such, I will request that if any members have a compatible card for mTCP:
Novell NE1000, NE2000 and clones 3Com 3C503 WD/SMC 8003 series Intel EtherExpress 8/16 Davicom DM9008F
Would they consider donating an extra to VCF for this effort? I'm not aware of any cards at VCF for this. If you coming to VCF repair day please consider bringing it!
Thanks.
-andy
> On Feb 28, 2021, at 12:43 PM, Bill Degnan via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > FYI - Here is a post I made with a quick how-to print ascii files the > DecWriter II, back in 2014 > https://www.vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=557 > Bill > > On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 12:38 PM Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > >> Eak!!! >> >> On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 12:32 PM Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic < >> vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote: >> >>> They say loud irritating noises keep rodents away... so there's that. :) >>> >>> On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 9:07 AM Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < >>> vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Also remind me to never get into a printer competition with Mike >> Loewen, >>>> those are some monster printers I saw on that page (for having at your >>>> house)... >>>> >>>>
Giant printer go brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
On Feb 28, 2021, at 12:37 PM, Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Eak!!!
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 12:32 PM Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
They say loud irritating noises keep rodents away... so there's that. :)
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 9:07 AM Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Also remind me to never get into a printer competition with Mike Loewen, those are some monster printers I saw on that page (for having at your house)...
On Sun, 28 Feb 2021, Andrew Diller wrote:
Giant printer go brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Back in the '70s, the university had an IBM 1401 system with a 1403 printer that they used to offload print and plot jobs. I have two card decks that played music on the 1403 printer: "She'll Be Comin' 'Round the Mountain" and "Anchors Aweigh". http://ibm-1401.info/Movies-n-Sounds.html Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
On Sun, 28 Feb 2021, Andrew Diller wrote:
Also remind me to never get into a printer competition with Mike Loewen, those are some monster printers I saw on that page (for having at your house)...
They're not THAT big (except for the DG). :-) The only reason I have the HP printers is for period correctness for my HP 3000s. Those two also have HP-IB interfaces. When I was doing HP 3000 maintenance in '86-'88, they sent me to Massachusetts for a class on the 2619A: https://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=811 1000lpm chain-train printer, big sucker. I only ever installed one after that. Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
The DEC LG01-A2 in my college lab no doubt exceeded OSHA noise limits when the hood was raised. On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 1:01 PM Mike Loewen via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On Sun, 28 Feb 2021, Andrew Diller wrote:
Also remind me to never get into a printer competition with Mike Loewen, those are some monster printers I saw on that page (for having at your house)...
They're not THAT big (except for the DG). :-) The only reason I have the HP printers is for period correctness for my HP 3000s. Those two also have HP-IB interfaces.
When I was doing HP 3000 maintenance in '86-'88, they sent me to Massachusetts for a class on the 2619A:
https://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=811
1000lpm chain-train printer, big sucker. I only ever installed one after that.
Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
Just to be clear- when you say they are line printers, that means that they have pins across the entire width of the paper/platen - and can print an entire line at a time, right? There is no moving print head... I just recall work I did in undergrad at University of MD in early '90s and in the 'machine room' there was some sort of IBM line printer that seemed to spit the paper out at like 80mph, and was... loud. I recall having to get print outs from the pascal code there for some home work or something. Those type of line printers right? -andy
On Feb 28, 2021, at 1:00 PM, Mike Loewen via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On Sun, 28 Feb 2021, Andrew Diller wrote:
Also remind me to never get into a printer competition with Mike Loewen, those are some monster printers I saw on that page (for having at your house)...
They're not THAT big (except for the DG). :-) The only reason I have the HP printers is for period correctness for my HP 3000s. Those two also have HP-IB interfaces.
When I was doing HP 3000 maintenance in '86-'88, they sent me to Massachusetts for a class on the 2619A:
https://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=811
1000lpm chain-train printer, big sucker. I only ever installed one after that.
Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
That’s been my understanding of what line printer means. We have one of these, rebadged for our basic/4 mini and it does 600 lines per minute, or used to last time I ran it: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.recycledgoods.com/amp/printronix-p600-600-l... If I remember correctly though it has one wide row of pins so it forms characters one row of dots at a time top to bottom instead of side to side. Pretty impressive to watch especially as a high school kid who had only ever seen a cheap dot matrix that did like one line per second! Sent from my iPhone On Feb 28, 2021, at 1:14 PM, Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote: Just to be clear- when you say they are line printers, that means that they have pins across the entire width of the paper/platen - and can print an entire line at a time, right? There is no moving print head... I just recall work I did in undergrad at University of MD in early '90s and in the 'machine room' there was some sort of IBM line printer that seemed to spit the paper out at like 80mph, and was... loud. I recall having to get print outs from the pascal code there for some home work or something. Those type of line printers right? -andy On Feb 28, 2021, at 1:00 PM, Mike Loewen via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote: On Sun, 28 Feb 2021, Andrew Diller wrote: Also remind me to never get into a printer competition with Mike Loewen, those are some monster printers I saw on that page (for having at your house)... They're not THAT big (except for the DG). :-) The only reason I have the HP printers is for period correctness for my HP 3000s. Those two also have HP-IB interfaces. When I was doing HP 3000 maintenance in '86-'88, they sent me to Massachusetts for a class on the 2619A: https://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=811 1000lpm chain-train printer, big sucker. I only ever installed one after that. Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
On 2/28/21 1:13 PM, Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Just to be clear- when you say they are line printers, that means that they have pins across the entire width of the paper/platen - and can print an entire line at a time, right? There is no moving print head...
It depends. "Line printer" is one of those terms that became successively more abused as time went on. It used to mean "prints a whole line at a time", but later that definition became somewhat distorted. Kinda like architects using big floor-standing HP ink-jet printers, calling them "plotters", to the point where HP themselves calls them "plotters". They are not plotters; they are ink-jet printers. But they replaced pen/vector plotters, so they kept calling their output devices "plotters". We have a big Tally/Genicom 4490XT printer at LSSM. This 1400 LPM printer prints an entire line at a time, but how it does it does actually involve a moving print head. The print head is the width of the paper, but it has columns of pins in groups with spaces between them. While printing, that head moves back and forth at great speed, you can barely see it move, with a total reciprocating lateral travel of maybe 1/4". It moves the groups of pins back and forth to fill in the gaps between the groups. But it's still called a "line printer". -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
Great point Dave. If a line printer was fitted with a DB9 connector would it actually exist? Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 28, 2021, at 1:32 PM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 2/28/21 1:13 PM, Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Just to be clear- when you say they are line printers, that means that they have pins across the entire width of the paper/platen - and can print an entire line at a time, right? There is no moving print head...
It depends. "Line printer" is one of those terms that became successively more abused as time went on. It used to mean "prints a whole line at a time", but later that definition became somewhat distorted.
Kinda like architects using big floor-standing HP ink-jet printers, calling them "plotters", to the point where HP themselves calls them "plotters". They are not plotters; they are ink-jet printers. But they replaced pen/vector plotters, so they kept calling their output devices "plotters".
We have a big Tally/Genicom 4490XT printer at LSSM. This 1400 LPM printer prints an entire line at a time, but how it does it does actually involve a moving print head. The print head is the width of the paper, but it has columns of pins in groups with spaces between them. While printing, that head moves back and forth at great speed, you can barely see it move, with a total reciprocating lateral travel of maybe 1/4". It moves the groups of pins back and forth to fill in the gaps between the groups. But it's still called a "line printer".
-Dave
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 1:32 PM Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 2/28/21 1:13 PM, Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Just to be clear- when you say they are line printers, that means that they have pins across the entire width of the paper/platen - and can print an entire line at a time, right? There is no moving print head...
It depends. "Line printer" is one of those terms that became successively more abused as time went on. It used to mean "prints a whole line at a time", but later that definition became somewhat distorted.
Kinda like architects using big floor-standing HP ink-jet printers, calling them "plotters", to the point where HP themselves calls them "plotters". They are not plotters; they are ink-jet printers. But they replaced pen/vector plotters, so they kept calling their output devices "plotters".
Thanks for sharing Dave. I love hearing about specific history like this. Especially where terminology gets distorted, muddled and people keep going with incorrect terminology, yet it becomes commonplace enough that every starts to accept it even though incorrect and/or inaccurate.
We have a big Tally/Genicom 4490XT printer at LSSM. This 1400 LPM printer prints an entire line at a time, but how it does it does actually involve a moving print head. The print head is the width of the paper, but it has columns of pins in groups with spaces between them. While printing, that head moves back and forth at great speed, you can barely see it move, with a total reciprocating lateral travel of maybe 1/4". It moves the groups of pins back and forth to fill in the gaps between the groups. But it's still called a "line printer".
-Dave
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On 2/28/21 1:45 PM, Jeffrey Brace wrote:
Kinda like architects using big floor-standing HP ink-jet printers, calling them "plotters", to the point where HP themselves calls them "plotters". They are not plotters; they are ink-jet printers. But they replaced pen/vector plotters, so they kept calling their output devices "plotters".
Thanks for sharing Dave. I love hearing about specific history like this. Especially where terminology gets distorted, muddled and people keep going with incorrect terminology, yet it becomes commonplace enough that every starts to accept it even though incorrect and/or inaccurate.
Yup. The one that gets me is "broadband". That's a completely inaccurate term. It does not mean, and has never meant "fast connection", but that's what people take it to mean now, all over the industry. Broadband is a technical term that has to do with the style of modulation which is applied to a carrier signal in order to transmit information. It has nothing to do with "bandwidth". Most fast connections are in fact "baseband", which is effectively the opposite of "broadband". It is the nature of language to evolve, but when it evolves sloppily by clueless people ("broadband") without intervention from people who know, it turns into a vomitous mess. Big ink-jet printers being called "plotters" never irked me quite as much as "broadband", but it's still wrong, and my terminologically-obsessive brain just goes into involuntary "NO THAT'S WRONG YOU MORON!" seizures when I hear it. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On 2/28/21 1:50 PM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Big ink-jet printers being called "plotters" never irked me quite as much as "broadband", but it's still wrong, and my terminologically-obsessive brain just goes into involuntary "NO THAT'S WRONG YOU MORON!" seizures when I hear it.
I took a course on networking (having worked in networking for about 20 years at that point) and the course described switching hubs as routing packets. I went a bit nuts on the professor for the double whammie (it was on a test). Of course with Software Defined Networks things are a little more complicated. ;-) -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
On 2/28/21 11:57 PM, Neil Cherry wrote:
Big ink-jet printers being called "plotters" never irked me quite as much as "broadband", but it's still wrong, and my terminologically-obsessive brain just goes into involuntary "NO THAT'S WRONG YOU MORON!" seizures when I hear it.
I took a course on networking (having worked in networking for about 20 years at that point) and the course described switching hubs as routing packets. I went a bit nuts on the professor for the double whammie (it was on a test).
The guy did that to you on a test?! Wow what a dick. Yep. Someone who doesn't know any better could be forgiven for thinking that switches "route" packets to the appropriate port, which they do. But, we draw a distinction between routing and switching, because they happen at different layers of the dip. Just like someone could be forgiven for thinking "broadband" is "bandwidth that is broad" and thus has something to do with transmission speed. But, in my lifelong study of becoming the absolute best a**hole that a man can be, I forgive neither. ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On 3/1/21 12:05 AM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On 2/28/21 11:57 PM, Neil Cherry wrote:
Big ink-jet printers being called "plotters" never irked me quite as much as "broadband", but it's still wrong, and my terminologically-obsessive brain just goes into involuntary "NO THAT'S WRONG YOU MORON!" seizures when I hear it.
I took a course on networking (having worked in networking for about 20 years at that point) and the course described switching hubs as routing packets. I went a bit nuts on the professor for the double whammie (it was on a test).
The guy did that to you on a test?! Wow what a dick.
Yep. Someone who doesn't know any better could be forgiven for thinking that switches "route" packets to the appropriate port,
Switches switch frames. I couldn't bare to bring myself to replace switch with "route". Not after arguing with a CCIE about OSPF exchanging routing information. At least he got up to ARP correct.
which they do. But, we draw a distinction between routing and switching, because they happen at different layers of the dip.
Just like someone could be forgiven for thinking "broadband" is "bandwidth that is broad" and thus has something to do with transmission speed.
But, in my lifelong study of becoming the absolute best a**hole that a man can be, I forgive neither. ;)
Routers route packets (L3), although they can switch packets now, which is a bit disconcerting but technical correct. Switches switch frames (L2). Frames contain packets. Let's skip vlans for now. they just make my brain ache more. ;-) When talking* (hehe) network engineering, being this pedantic is a requirement. * - Sorry, about the poor English. It was meant as humor. But many of engineering discussions bordered on text book bad English while arguing about correct terminology. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
On 3/1/21 7:23 AM, Neil Cherry wrote:
I took a course on networking (having worked in networking for about 20 years at that point) and the course described switching hubs as routing packets. I went a bit nuts on the professor for the double whammie (it was on a test).
The guy did that to you on a test?! Wow what a dick.
Yep. Someone who doesn't know any better could be forgiven for thinking that switches "route" packets to the appropriate port,
Switches switch frames. I couldn't bare to bring myself to replace switch with "route". Not after arguing with a CCIE about OSPF exchanging routing information.
There's a fine line between terminological correctness and "accepted usage". The weird thing (well, weird to me I guess, but I suppose it makes sense) is that the latter eventually turns into the former!
At least he got up to ARP correct.
Well that's something.
which they do. But, we draw a distinction between routing and switching, because they happen at different layers of the dip.
Just like someone could be forgiven for thinking "broadband" is "bandwidth that is broad" and thus has something to do with transmission speed.
But, in my lifelong study of becoming the absolute best a**hole that a man can be, I forgive neither. ;)
Routers route packets (L3), although they can switch packets now, which is a bit disconcerting but technical correct.
Switches switch frames (L2).
Frames contain packets.
Yup. Unless you're working with raw Ethernet, not in the context of IP or even the seven-layer reference model, and datasheets for Ethernet MAC ICs frequently refer to frames as packets. So, definition depends on context...making it even worse.
Let's skip vlans for now. they just make my brain ache more. ;-)
VLANs sure are nice, though.
When talking* (hehe) network engineering, being this pedantic is a requirement.
* - Sorry, about the poor English. It was meant as humor. But many of engineering discussions bordered on text book bad English while arguing about correct terminology.
True, but speaking only for myself, I really only care about engineering. :) -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
Are you sure? Taking a queue from my 4th grade kid's math book, I did a number line of 100 and a below it a number line for 1000 - and the broader one was the 1G number line! They must be on to something here, I'm not sure what. Next they'll be trying to explain QAM and how they take that broad bandwidth and wrap it up tight into the coax where the TV pictures live :)
On Mar 1, 2021, at 12:05 AM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Just like someone could be forgiven for thinking "broadband" is "bandwidth that is broad" and thus has something to do with transmission speed.
-andy
It’s MAGIC! Sent from: My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device.
On Mar 1, 2021, at 8:33 AM, Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Are you sure? Taking a queue from my 4th grade kid's math book, I did a number line of 100 and a below it a number line for 1000 - and the broader one was the 1G number line! They must be on to something here, I'm not sure what. Next they'll be trying to explain QAM and how they take that broad bandwidth and wrap it up tight into the coax where the TV pictures live :)
On Mar 1, 2021, at 12:05 AM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Just like someone could be forgiven for thinking "broadband" is "bandwidth that is broad" and thus has something to do with transmission speed.
-andy
Taking a QUEUE?! [head explodes] ;) I use vector modulation schemes in a lot of my embedded work. They are pretty mind-bending, but awesomely cool.. -Dave On 3/1/21 8:33 AM, Andrew Diller wrote:
Are you sure? Taking a queue from my 4th grade kid's math book, I did a number line of 100 and a below it a number line for 1000 - and the broader one was the 1G number line! They must be on to something here, I'm not sure what. Next they'll be trying to explain QAM and how they take that broad bandwidth and wrap it up tight into the coax where the TV pictures live :)
On Mar 1, 2021, at 12:05 AM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Just like someone could be forgiven for thinking "broadband" is "bandwidth that is broad" and thus has something to do with transmission speed.
-andy
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On Sun, 28 Feb 2021, Andrew Diller wrote:
Just to be clear- when you say they are line printers, that means that they have pins across the entire width of the paper/platen - and can print an entire line at a time, right? There is no moving print head...
Correct. The LDM800 and the 2564B are line-matrix printers: they print an entire row of dots at a time. In the case of the 2564B, the corebar oscillates rapidly horizontally, across two character positions. There are 66 print hammers on the corebar. Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
I have heard dot-matrix printers with moving heads also called line printers. On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 1:14 PM Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Just to be clear- when you say they are line printers, that means that they have pins across the entire width of the paper/platen - and can print an entire line at a time, right? There is no moving print head...
I just recall work I did in undergrad at University of MD in early '90s and in the 'machine room' there was some sort of IBM line printer that seemed to spit the paper out at like 80mph, and was... loud.
I recall having to get print outs from the pascal code there for some home work or something.
Those type of line printers right?
-andy
On Feb 28, 2021, at 1:00 PM, Mike Loewen via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On Sun, 28 Feb 2021, Andrew Diller wrote:
Also remind me to never get into a printer competition with Mike Loewen, those are some monster printers I saw on that page (for having at your house)...
They're not THAT big (except for the DG). :-) The only reason I have the HP printers is for period correctness for my HP 3000s. Those two also have HP-IB interfaces.
When I was doing HP 3000 maintenance in '86-'88, they sent me to Massachusetts for a class on the 2619A:
https://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=811
1000lpm chain-train printer, big sucker. I only ever installed one after that.
Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
participants (15)
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Andrew Diller -
Bill Degnan -
Bruce -
Chris Fala -
Dave McGuire -
Dean Notarnicola -
Jameel Akari -
Jeffrey Brace -
jsalzman＠gmail.com -
Martin Flynn -
Michael Brutman -
Mike Loewen -
Neil Cherry -
Sentrytv -
W. Bryan Caudle