Hey folks - Looking for some insight from the hardware inclined here. GaN USB chargers are touted as being able to deliver higher power in smaller form factors (I.e. charging a 65W USB device while the size of a “standard silicon” ~ 10-20W USB charger). I know on paper GaN can run a lot hotter successfully than silicon (>150C for example), but I’m wondering - when you have a GaN USB charger that runs pretty hot for long period of time, is it really safe? Aren’t there likely other components in the charger that don’t have the increased heat tolerance of GaN semiconductors? I’m asking as one of my GaN chargers gets hot enough to the point that I’d be really worried with a traditional PSU. It only happens if I had two devices attached that need a full charge - once they’re topped off or higher up in charge temperature is no issue. Thanks, John
On Feb 21, 2024, at 2:57 PM, John Heritage via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Hey folks -
Looking for some insight from the hardware inclined here.
GaN USB chargers are touted as being able to deliver higher power in smaller form factors (I.e. charging a 65W USB device while the size of a “standard silicon” ~ 10-20W USB charger).
Lower parasitics and higher electron mobility are a real game-changer, though the real winners are the people building radars with it. :-)
I know on paper GaN can run a lot hotter successfully than silicon (>150C for example), but I’m wondering - when you have a GaN USB charger that runs pretty hot for long period of time, is it really safe? Aren’t there likely other components in the charger that don’t have the increased heat tolerance of GaN semiconductors?
This is a valid concern, though in most consumer equipment, my concern would be the plastics surrounding everything; if it gets too hot, things can soften and do things like cause mains shorts, which are Big Problems. If it's well designed, the majority of the heat should be localized (though any heating shortens the life of every component because it accelerates the effect of inevitable chemical effects, Bil Herd did a great VCF EDU talk on this wrt MTBF calculations), but cheaper devices may fail prematurely, sometimes catastrophically. I've generally been happy with the build quality of Anker devices, if that helps.
I’m asking as one of my GaN chargers gets hot enough to the point that I’d be really worried with a traditional PSU. It only happens if I had two devices attached that need a full charge - once they’re topped off or higher up in charge temperature is no issue.
Hard to say. If you smell the telltale smell of hot plastic, be worried. - Dave
On 2/21/24 15:27, David Riley via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On Feb 21, 2024, at 2:57 PM, John Heritage via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Other problem is your USB cables. You'll need the correct cable and the USB C cables are complex and *USUALLY* only work in one direction (correct resistors on one connector and not the other). I'm not an expert but this is one confusing protocol.
Hard to say. If you smell the telltale smell of hot plastic, be worried.
++2 !!! -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry kd2zrq@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies KD2ZRQ
On Feb 21, 2024, at 5:40 PM, Neil Cherry <ncherry@linuxha.com> wrote:
On 2/21/24 15:27, David Riley via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On Feb 21, 2024, at 2:57 PM, John Heritage via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Other problem is your USB cables. You'll need the correct cable and the USB C cables are complex and *USUALLY* only work in one direction (correct resistors on one connector and not the other). I'm not an expert but this is one confusing protocol.
Don't even get me started on the cursed monstrosity that is USB-C. It's an absolute mess piled on top of a bigger mess that is the USB 1.1/2.0 specification (because it includes a USB-2 connection in its entirety). Monoprice actually is very good about telling you what cables do what, because some cables do high power (it's a current rating thing, USB-C power distribution can negotiate the voltage from 5v to 20v or higher on newer specs, but the cable limits the current and some cables can't safely do 5A to get the full 100W), and the high power cables often don't have the high-speed pairs used to carry USB 3.x or DisplayPort or whatever so they can only do USB 2.0, and some do everything, but it can be hard to tell what's what. Monoprice is always quite clear on what's what and has never sent me a bad cable and I've been using them for more than a decade. Amazon is more of a Wild West situation, especially with the multitude of vendors who aren't 100% honest (or sometimes just don't actually even bother to check) about what the cables do. Just take a look at the table toward the middle of the page here: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=27923 - Dave
Thanks all - good discussion. In my case no plastic burning smells but definitely hot to the touch plastic casing in general under certain circumstances. Dave - that monoprice chart is good but also interesting that the Gauge of the cable seems to have little bearing on its rated amperage capacity. Is that implying maybe multiple wires are covering the difference? I.e. They have 32 AWG and 30 AWG for 3 amp cables, but also a 30 AWG 5 amp, and another that is 26 AWG 5 amp. (I did replace all of my ‘charging cables’ with Anker gear last year just to avoid worries for any higher power devices. Including USB-C cables in the car). On Wed, Feb 21, 2024 at 22:45 David Riley via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On Feb 21, 2024, at 5:40 PM, Neil Cherry <ncherry@linuxha.com> wrote:
On 2/21/24 15:27, David Riley via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On Feb 21, 2024, at 2:57 PM, John Heritage via vcf-midatlantic <
vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Other problem is your USB cables. You'll need the correct cable and the
USB C cables
are complex and *USUALLY* only work in one direction (correct resistors on one connector and not the other). I'm not an expert but this is one confusing protocol.
Don't even get me started on the cursed monstrosity that is USB-C. It's an absolute mess piled on top of a bigger mess that is the USB 1.1/2.0 specification (because it includes a USB-2 connection in its entirety).
Monoprice actually is very good about telling you what cables do what, because some cables do high power (it's a current rating thing, USB-C power distribution can negotiate the voltage from 5v to 20v or higher on newer specs, but the cable limits the current and some cables can't safely do 5A to get the full 100W), and the high power cables often don't have the high-speed pairs used to carry USB 3.x or DisplayPort or whatever so they can only do USB 2.0, and some do everything, but it can be hard to tell what's what.
Monoprice is always quite clear on what's what and has never sent me a bad cable and I've been using them for more than a decade. Amazon is more of a Wild West situation, especially with the multitude of vendors who aren't 100% honest (or sometimes just don't actually even bother to check) about what the cables do. Just take a look at the table toward the middle of the page here: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=27923
- Dave
Electrolytic caps are not going to be happy with high temperatures. Bill Dudley This email is free of malware because I run Linux. On Wed, Feb 21, 2024 at 2:58 PM John Heritage via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Hey folks -
Looking for some insight from the hardware inclined here.
GaN USB chargers are touted as being able to deliver higher power in smaller form factors (I.e. charging a 65W USB device while the size of a “standard silicon” ~ 10-20W USB charger).
I know on paper GaN can run a lot hotter successfully than silicon (>150C for example), but I’m wondering - when you have a GaN USB charger that runs pretty hot for long period of time, is it really safe? Aren’t there likely other components in the charger that don’t have the increased heat tolerance of GaN semiconductors?
I’m asking as one of my GaN chargers gets hot enough to the point that I’d be really worried with a traditional PSU. It only happens if I had two devices attached that need a full charge - once they’re topped off or higher up in charge temperature is no issue.
Thanks, John
I’m sure we all have seen this and I don’t know if it’s exactly as what’s described here, but my little 1” square sized Apple charger for my iPhone, gets burning hot to the point where I can’t even touch it while the phone is charging for an hour or so. It hasn’t died yet, after several years. Sent from: My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device.
On Feb 21, 2024, at 8:47 PM, William Dudley via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Electrolytic caps are not going to be happy with high temperatures.
Bill Dudley
This email is free of malware because I run Linux.
On Wed, Feb 21, 2024 at 2:58 PM John Heritage via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Hey folks -
Looking for some insight from the hardware inclined here.
GaN USB chargers are touted as being able to deliver higher power in smaller form factors (I.e. charging a 65W USB device while the size of a “standard silicon” ~ 10-20W USB charger).
I know on paper GaN can run a lot hotter successfully than silicon (>150C for example), but I’m wondering - when you have a GaN USB charger that runs pretty hot for long period of time, is it really safe? Aren’t there likely other components in the charger that don’t have the increased heat tolerance of GaN semiconductors?
I’m asking as one of my GaN chargers gets hot enough to the point that I’d be really worried with a traditional PSU. It only happens if I had two devices attached that need a full charge - once they’re topped off or higher up in charge temperature is no issue.
Thanks, John
participants (5)
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David Riley -
John Heritage -
Neil Cherry -
Sentrytv -
William Dudley