No more overnight sleeping at InfoAge
Wall Township has decreed that the Sandy bunk area may no longer be used for overnight stays. They say that it is an insurance liability. InfoAge has been trying to convince them that it isn’t a problem. InfoAge will lose money over this. This is very disappointing and I know frustrating to those who have used the inexpensive volunteer stay over. There’s nothing VCF can do at the moment. VCF and InfoAge will continue to try to convince them, but for the time being no one can sleep overnight in that area. So unfortunately volunteers will have to find a hotel or other arrangements for overnight stays. Jeff Brace Vintage Computer Festival East Showrunner VCF Mid-Atlantic Event Manager Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity https://vcfed.org/ <http://www.vcfed.org/> jeffrey@vcfed.org
On 10/23/2024 11:36 PM, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
So unfortunately volunteers will have to find a hotel or other arrangements for overnight stays.
That is truly unfortunate. I did not take advantage of the option during VCF-E trips but I know it enabled some folks around the area to attend/volunteer who would otherwise not be able to do so. Sorry the group is having to deal with this. Jim
Just to be clear, this isn't InfoAge's decision. They fought for keeping the status quo on this. They are victims, too, if you want to call it that. As far as I know, they haven't exhausted all avenues to get this privilege reinstated. I, for one, will probably severely curtail my visits to InfoAge if Wall Township's decision remains. I can't afford monthly hotel expenses, especially during tourist season, and I do normally visit at least once per month to help with VCF, and by extension, InfoAge directly. I'm one person, but when I do visit, my money goes into the community for my food and fun. When I can exercise the privilege of using the bunkhouse, that leaves more money to spread around local businesses, rather than giving most of my budgeted expenses to high-priced lodging. I'm one voice, but I know I'm not the only one impacted by this decision. Maybe if Wall Township heard directly from all of us, they might see the light. Perhaps any and all who are affected by this should contact Wall Township directly. It's public knowledge that the edict came directly from them. At least it might let them become intimately aware there is a potential community impact from this decision. If they start receiving direct correspondence from the public, maybe they'll realize this impact. Right now, they don't hear all the voices, so it would be so easy for them to be complacent with their decision. Maybe if they hear of the impact, from the mouths of many, the might (hopefully) understand the bigger picture. On Thu, Oct 24, 2024, 12:36 AM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Wall Township has decreed that the Sandy bunk area may no longer be used for overnight stays. They say that it is an insurance liability. InfoAge has been trying to convince them that it isn’t a problem. InfoAge will lose money over this.
This is very disappointing and I know frustrating to those who have used the inexpensive volunteer stay over. There’s nothing VCF can do at the moment.
VCF and InfoAge will continue to try to convince them, but for the time being no one can sleep overnight in that area.
So unfortunately volunteers will have to find a hotel or other arrangements for overnight stays.
Jeff Brace Vintage Computer Festival East Showrunner VCF Mid-Atlantic Event Manager Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity https://vcfed.org/ <http://www.vcfed.org/> jeffrey@vcfed.org
I'd be interested in hearing from the VCF board with a plan of action on how we as members can help. I (and probably many others) am happy to appeal to the appropriate authorities, either as an individual or as part of a group effort (e.g. petition). We need guidance from the board on what the planned response is... I have lots of questions and things I'm not clear on... - glenn -----Original Message----- From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces@lists.vcfed.org> On Behalf Of Jeff S via vcf-midatlantic Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2024 7:47 AM To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Cc: Jeff S <jsalzman@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] No more overnight sleeping at InfoAge Just to be clear, this isn't InfoAge's decision. They fought for keeping the status quo on this. They are victims, too, if you want to call it that. As far as I know, they haven't exhausted all avenues to get this privilege reinstated. I, for one, will probably severely curtail my visits to InfoAge if Wall Township's decision remains. I can't afford monthly hotel expenses, especially during tourist season, and I do normally visit at least once per month to help with VCF, and by extension, InfoAge directly. I'm one person, but when I do visit, my money goes into the community for my food and fun. When I can exercise the privilege of using the bunkhouse, that leaves more money to spread around local businesses, rather than giving most of my budgeted expenses to high-priced lodging. I'm one voice, but I know I'm not the only one impacted by this decision. Maybe if Wall Township heard directly from all of us, they might see the light. Perhaps any and all who are affected by this should contact Wall Township directly. It's public knowledge that the edict came directly from them. At least it might let them become intimately aware there is a potential community impact from this decision. If they start receiving direct correspondence from the public, maybe they'll realize this impact. Right now, they don't hear all the voices, so it would be so easy for them to be complacent with their decision. Maybe if they hear of the impact, from the mouths of many, the might (hopefully) understand the bigger picture. On Thu, Oct 24, 2024, 12:36 AM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Wall Township has decreed that the Sandy bunk area may no longer be used for overnight stays. They say that it is an insurance liability. InfoAge has been trying to convince them that it isn’t a problem. InfoAge will lose money over this.
This is very disappointing and I know frustrating to those who have used the inexpensive volunteer stay over. There’s nothing VCF can do at the moment.
VCF and InfoAge will continue to try to convince them, but for the time being no one can sleep overnight in that area.
So unfortunately volunteers will have to find a hotel or other arrangements for overnight stays.
Jeff Brace Vintage Computer Festival East Showrunner VCF Mid-Atlantic Event Manager Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity https://vcfed.org/ <http://www.vcfed.org/> jeffrey@vcfed.org
The VCF Mid-Atlantic Steering Committee is already developing a plan of action and researching solutions. This issue is not going unchallenged. On Thu, Oct 24, 2024, 8:19 AM <glenn.f.roberts@gmail.com> wrote:
I'd be interested in hearing from the VCF board with a plan of action on how we as members can help. I (and probably many others) am happy to appeal to the appropriate authorities, either as an individual or as part of a group effort (e.g. petition). We need guidance from the board on what the planned response is... I have lots of questions and things I'm not clear on...
- glenn
-----Original Message----- From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces@lists.vcfed.org> On Behalf Of Jeff S via vcf-midatlantic Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2024 7:47 AM To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Cc: Jeff S <jsalzman@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] No more overnight sleeping at InfoAge
Just to be clear, this isn't InfoAge's decision. They fought for keeping the status quo on this. They are victims, too, if you want to call it that. As far as I know, they haven't exhausted all avenues to get this privilege reinstated.
I, for one, will probably severely curtail my visits to InfoAge if Wall Township's decision remains. I can't afford monthly hotel expenses, especially during tourist season, and I do normally visit at least once per month to help with VCF, and by extension, InfoAge directly.
I'm one person, but when I do visit, my money goes into the community for my food and fun. When I can exercise the privilege of using the bunkhouse, that leaves more money to spread around local businesses, rather than giving most of my budgeted expenses to high-priced lodging.
I'm one voice, but I know I'm not the only one impacted by this decision. Maybe if Wall Township heard directly from all of us, they might see the light.
Perhaps any and all who are affected by this should contact Wall Township directly. It's public knowledge that the edict came directly from them. At least it might let them become intimately aware there is a potential community impact from this decision. If they start receiving direct correspondence from the public, maybe they'll realize this impact. Right now, they don't hear all the voices, so it would be so easy for them to be complacent with their decision. Maybe if they hear of the impact, from the mouths of many, the might (hopefully) understand the bigger picture.
On Thu, Oct 24, 2024, 12:36 AM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Wall Township has decreed that the Sandy bunk area may no longer be used for overnight stays. They say that it is an insurance liability. InfoAge has been trying to convince them that it isn’t a problem. InfoAge will lose money over this.
This is very disappointing and I know frustrating to those who have used the inexpensive volunteer stay over. There’s nothing VCF can do at the moment.
VCF and InfoAge will continue to try to convince them, but for the time being no one can sleep overnight in that area.
So unfortunately volunteers will have to find a hotel or other arrangements for overnight stays.
Jeff Brace Vintage Computer Festival East Showrunner VCF Mid-Atlantic Event Manager Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity https://vcfed.org/ <http://www.vcfed.org/> jeffrey@vcfed.org
Thanks, Jeff. Glad you guys are on it! On Thu, Oct 24, 2024 at 8:30 AM Jeff S via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
The VCF Mid-Atlantic Steering Committee is already developing a plan of action and researching solutions. This issue is not going unchallenged.
On Thu, Oct 24, 2024, 8:19 AM <glenn.f.roberts@gmail.com> wrote:
I'd be interested in hearing from the VCF board with a plan of action on how we as members can help. I (and probably many others) am happy to appeal to the appropriate authorities, either as an individual or as part of a group effort (e.g. petition). We need guidance from the board on what the planned response is... I have lots of questions and things I'm not clear on...
- glenn
-----Original Message----- From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces@lists.vcfed.org> On Behalf Of Jeff S via vcf-midatlantic Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2024 7:47 AM To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Cc: Jeff S <jsalzman@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] No more overnight sleeping at InfoAge
Just to be clear, this isn't InfoAge's decision. They fought for keeping the status quo on this. They are victims, too, if you want to call it that. As far as I know, they haven't exhausted all avenues to get this privilege reinstated.
I, for one, will probably severely curtail my visits to InfoAge if Wall Township's decision remains. I can't afford monthly hotel expenses, especially during tourist season, and I do normally visit at least once per month to help with VCF, and by extension, InfoAge directly.
I'm one person, but when I do visit, my money goes into the community for my food and fun. When I can exercise the privilege of using the bunkhouse, that leaves more money to spread around local businesses, rather than giving most of my budgeted expenses to high-priced lodging.
I'm one voice, but I know I'm not the only one impacted by this decision. Maybe if Wall Township heard directly from all of us, they might see the light.
Perhaps any and all who are affected by this should contact Wall Township directly. It's public knowledge that the edict came directly from them. At least it might let them become intimately aware there is a potential community impact from this decision. If they start receiving direct correspondence from the public, maybe they'll realize this impact. Right now, they don't hear all the voices, so it would be so easy for them to be complacent with their decision. Maybe if they hear of the impact, from the mouths of many, the might (hopefully) understand the bigger picture.
On Thu, Oct 24, 2024, 12:36 AM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Wall Township has decreed that the Sandy bunk area may no longer be used for overnight stays. They say that it is an insurance liability. InfoAge has been trying to convince them that it isn’t a problem. InfoAge will lose money over this.
This is very disappointing and I know frustrating to those who have used the inexpensive volunteer stay over. There’s nothing VCF can do at the moment.
VCF and InfoAge will continue to try to convince them, but for the time being no one can sleep overnight in that area.
So unfortunately volunteers will have to find a hotel or other arrangements for overnight stays.
Jeff Brace Vintage Computer Festival East Showrunner VCF Mid-Atlantic Event Manager Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity https://vcfed.org/ <http://www.vcfed.org/> jeffrey@vcfed.org
Not everyone in Wall was thrilled when Fred preserved the site.... Hey, do any of those guys in there (in government I mean) like vintage computers by now? Throw em' a few floppy disks :) On Thu, Oct 24, 2024 at 1:57 PM Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Thanks, Jeff. Glad you guys are on it!
On Thu, Oct 24, 2024 at 8:30 AM Jeff S via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
The VCF Mid-Atlantic Steering Committee is already developing a plan of action and researching solutions. This issue is not going unchallenged.
On Thu, Oct 24, 2024, 8:19 AM <glenn.f.roberts@gmail.com> wrote:
I'd be interested in hearing from the VCF board with a plan of action on how we as members can help. I (and probably many others) am happy to appeal to the appropriate authorities, either as an individual or as part of a group effort (e.g. petition). We need guidance from the board on what the planned response is... I have lots of questions and things I'm not clear on...
- glenn
-----Original Message----- From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces@lists.vcfed.org> On Behalf Of Jeff S via vcf-midatlantic Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2024 7:47 AM To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Cc: Jeff S <jsalzman@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] No more overnight sleeping at InfoAge
Just to be clear, this isn't InfoAge's decision. They fought for keeping the status quo on this. They are victims, too, if you want to call it that. As far as I know, they haven't exhausted all avenues to get this privilege reinstated.
I, for one, will probably severely curtail my visits to InfoAge if Wall Township's decision remains. I can't afford monthly hotel expenses, especially during tourist season, and I do normally visit at least once per month to help with VCF, and by extension, InfoAge directly.
I'm one person, but when I do visit, my money goes into the community for my food and fun. When I can exercise the privilege of using the bunkhouse, that leaves more money to spread around local businesses, rather than giving most of my budgeted expenses to high-priced lodging.
I'm one voice, but I know I'm not the only one impacted by this decision. Maybe if Wall Township heard directly from all of us, they might see the light.
Perhaps any and all who are affected by this should contact Wall Township directly. It's public knowledge that the edict came directly from them. At least it might let them become intimately aware there is a potential community impact from this decision. If they start receiving direct correspondence from the public, maybe they'll realize this impact. Right now, they don't hear all the voices, so it would be so easy for them to be complacent with their decision. Maybe if they hear of the impact, from the mouths of many, the might (hopefully) understand the bigger picture.
On Thu, Oct 24, 2024, 12:36 AM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Wall Township has decreed that the Sandy bunk area may no longer be used for overnight stays. They say that it is an insurance liability. InfoAge has been trying to convince them that it isn’t a problem. InfoAge will lose money over this.
This is very disappointing and I know frustrating to those who have used the inexpensive volunteer stay over. There’s nothing VCF can do at the moment.
VCF and InfoAge will continue to try to convince them, but for the time being no one can sleep overnight in that area.
So unfortunately volunteers will have to find a hotel or other arrangements for overnight stays.
Jeff Brace Vintage Computer Festival East Showrunner VCF Mid-Atlantic Event Manager Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity https://vcfed.org/ <http://www.vcfed.org/> jeffrey@vcfed.org
-- Bart Hirst "This signature will now be eaten up and spit out by Velociraptors."
As was stated the Steering Committee, myself and Corey are trying to find a solution to this issue. I would have explained more, but since we have an event this weekend, I needed to get the word out quickly. VCF East is another matter. They will let us use the space, but not sleep there. I’m consulting with Corey about allocating the budget which we had for volunteers at the Sandy Bunk area towards a low cost deal with a hotel. There’s plenty of time to figure out a solution that supports out volunteers. On Thu, Oct 24, 2024 at 14:28 Bart Hirst via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Not everyone in Wall was thrilled when Fred preserved the site.... Hey, do any of those guys in there (in government I mean) like vintage computers by now? Throw em' a few floppy disks :)
On Thu, Oct 24, 2024 at 1:57 PM Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Thanks, Jeff. Glad you guys are on it!
On Thu, Oct 24, 2024 at 8:30 AM Jeff S via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
The VCF Mid-Atlantic Steering Committee is already developing a plan of action and researching solutions. This issue is not going unchallenged.
On Thu, Oct 24, 2024, 8:19 AM <glenn.f.roberts@gmail.com> wrote:
I'd be interested in hearing from the VCF board with a plan of action on how we as members can help. I (and probably many others) am happy to appeal to the appropriate authorities, either as an individual or as part of a group effort (e.g. petition). We need guidance from the board on what the planned response is... I have lots of questions and things I'm not clear on...
- glenn
-----Original Message----- From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces@lists.vcfed.org> On Behalf Of Jeff S via vcf-midatlantic Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2024 7:47 AM To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Cc: Jeff S <jsalzman@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] No more overnight sleeping at InfoAge
Just to be clear, this isn't InfoAge's decision. They fought for keeping the status quo on this. They are victims, too, if you want to call it that. As far as I know, they haven't exhausted all avenues to get this privilege reinstated.
I, for one, will probably severely curtail my visits to InfoAge if Wall Township's decision remains. I can't afford monthly hotel expenses, especially during tourist season, and I do normally visit at least once per month to help with VCF, and by extension, InfoAge directly.
I'm one person, but when I do visit, my money goes into the community for my food and fun. When I can exercise the privilege of using the bunkhouse, that leaves more money to spread around local businesses, rather than giving most of my budgeted expenses to high-priced lodging.
I'm one voice, but I know I'm not the only one impacted by this decision. Maybe if Wall Township heard directly from all of us, they might see the light.
Perhaps any and all who are affected by this should contact Wall Township directly. It's public knowledge that the edict came directly from them. At least it might let them become intimately aware there is a potential community impact from this decision. If they start receiving direct correspondence from the public, maybe they'll realize this impact. Right now, they don't hear all the voices, so it would be so easy for them to be complacent with their decision. Maybe if they hear of the impact, from the mouths of many, the might (hopefully) understand the bigger picture.
On Thu, Oct 24, 2024, 12:36 AM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Wall Township has decreed that the Sandy bunk area may no longer be used for overnight stays. They say that it is an insurance liability. InfoAge has been trying to convince them that it isn’t a problem. InfoAge will lose money over this.
This is very disappointing and I know frustrating to those who have used the inexpensive volunteer stay over. There’s nothing VCF can do at the moment.
VCF and InfoAge will continue to try to convince them, but for the time being no one can sleep overnight in that area.
So unfortunately volunteers will have to find a hotel or other arrangements for overnight stays.
Jeff Brace Vintage Computer Festival East Showrunner VCF Mid-Atlantic Event Manager Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity https://vcfed.org/ <http://www.vcfed.org/> jeffrey@vcfed.org
-- Bart Hirst "This signature will now be eaten up and spit out by Velociraptors."
I'm not clear on this Jeff- Is the decision that no-one can sleep over at InfoAge? Or that only volunteers, who may have no association with InfoAge or a member org cannot sleep over? -andy
On Oct 24, 2024, at 2:50 PM, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
VCF East is another matter. They will let us use the space, but not sleep there. I’m consulting with Corey about allocating the budget which we had for volunteers at the Sandy Bunk area towards a low cost deal with a hotel. There’s plenty of time to figure out a solution that supports out volunteers.
Andy, I see no one has responded to your question No one can sleep in the bunkhouse until the matter of liability is discussed with IA and Wall Township. Volunteer, member, or not. I assure you we are working hard to get this resolved. We are dealing with local bureaucracy however, so this is not something that can be easily resolved over a few emails. When we have a proper update we will make an announcement. I am sorry to anyone coming to the swap that has been inconvenienced by this. It is both frustrating and unfortunate timing. I also come from an hour away so this has definitely affected my ability to attend events as well. Thank you, Ian L. On Thu, Oct 24, 2024 at 15:17 Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I'm not clear on this Jeff-
Is the decision that no-one can sleep over at InfoAge?
Or that only volunteers, who may have no association with InfoAge or a member org cannot sleep over?
-andy
On Oct 24, 2024, at 2:50 PM, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
VCF East is another matter. They will let us use the space, but not sleep there. I’m consulting with Corey about allocating the budget which we had for volunteers at the Sandy Bunk area towards a low cost deal with a hotel. There’s plenty of time to figure out a solution that supports out volunteers.
Thanks! I know a lot of people are working hard to resolve this. I'm thinking more of Festivus :( I can't believe it's not something some lawyers can figure out and get some waivers in place for people to sign! To be clear, I have no inside info I'm just speculating here. -andy
On Oct 25, 2024, at 1:11 PM, Ian Litchfield via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Andy,
I see no one has responded to your question
No one can sleep in the bunkhouse until the matter of liability is discussed with IA and Wall Township. Volunteer, member, or not. I assure you we are working hard to get this resolved. We are dealing with local bureaucracy however, so this is not something that can be easily resolved over a few emails.
When we have a proper update we will make an announcement.
I am sorry to anyone coming to the swap that has been inconvenienced by this. It is both frustrating and unfortunate timing. I also come from an hour away so this has definitely affected my ability to attend events as well.
Thank you, Ian L.
On Thu, Oct 24, 2024 at 15:17 Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I'm not clear on this Jeff-
Is the decision that no-one can sleep over at InfoAge?
Or that only volunteers, who may have no association with InfoAge or a member org cannot sleep over?
-andy
On Oct 24, 2024, at 2:50 PM, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
VCF East is another matter. They will let us use the space, but not sleep there. I’m consulting with Corey about allocating the budget which we had for volunteers at the Sandy Bunk area towards a low cost deal with a hotel. There’s plenty of time to figure out a solution that supports out volunteers.
It's certainly possible that something like that can happen, but it won't happen overnight. (no pin intended!). Remember, this just came up recently. The people who made the decision are likely (hopefully) unaware of the impact it would have on our organization. -Dave On October 25, 2024 1:34:22 PM Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Thanks! I know a lot of people are working hard to resolve this. I'm thinking more of Festivus :(
I can't believe it's not something some lawyers can figure out and get some waivers in place for people to sign! To be clear, I have no inside info I'm just speculating here.
-andy
On Oct 25, 2024, at 1:11 PM, Ian Litchfield via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Andy,
I see no one has responded to your question
No one can sleep in the bunkhouse until the matter of liability is discussed with IA and Wall Township. Volunteer, member, or not. I assure you we are working hard to get this resolved. We are dealing with local bureaucracy however, so this is not something that can be easily resolved over a few emails.
When we have a proper update we will make an announcement.
I am sorry to anyone coming to the swap that has been inconvenienced by this. It is both frustrating and unfortunate timing. I also come from an hour away so this has definitely affected my ability to attend events as well.
Thank you, Ian L.
On Thu, Oct 24, 2024 at 15:17 Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I'm not clear on this Jeff-
Is the decision that no-one can sleep over at InfoAge?
Or that only volunteers, who may have no association with InfoAge or a member org cannot sleep over?
-andy
On Oct 24, 2024, at 2:50 PM, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
VCF East is another matter. They will let us use the space, but not sleep there. I’m consulting with Corey about allocating the budget which we had for volunteers at the Sandy Bunk area towards a low cost deal with a hotel. There’s plenty of time to figure out a solution that supports out volunteers.
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
Is there a possibility of parking small campers on the grounds? Some folks have their own. On Thu, Oct 24, 2024 at 8:19 AM Glenn Roberts via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I'd be interested in hearing from the VCF board with a plan of action on how we as members can help. I (and probably many others) am happy to appeal to the appropriate authorities, either as an individual or as part of a group effort (e.g. petition). We need guidance from the board on what the planned response is... I have lots of questions and things I'm not clear on...
- glenn
-----Original Message----- From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces@lists.vcfed.org> On Behalf Of Jeff S via vcf-midatlantic Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2024 7:47 AM To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Cc: Jeff S <jsalzman@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] No more overnight sleeping at InfoAge
Just to be clear, this isn't InfoAge's decision. They fought for keeping the status quo on this. They are victims, too, if you want to call it that. As far as I know, they haven't exhausted all avenues to get this privilege reinstated.
I, for one, will probably severely curtail my visits to InfoAge if Wall Township's decision remains. I can't afford monthly hotel expenses, especially during tourist season, and I do normally visit at least once per month to help with VCF, and by extension, InfoAge directly.
I'm one person, but when I do visit, my money goes into the community for my food and fun. When I can exercise the privilege of using the bunkhouse, that leaves more money to spread around local businesses, rather than giving most of my budgeted expenses to high-priced lodging.
I'm one voice, but I know I'm not the only one impacted by this decision. Maybe if Wall Township heard directly from all of us, they might see the light.
Perhaps any and all who are affected by this should contact Wall Township directly. It's public knowledge that the edict came directly from them. At least it might let them become intimately aware there is a potential community impact from this decision. If they start receiving direct correspondence from the public, maybe they'll realize this impact. Right now, they don't hear all the voices, so it would be so easy for them to be complacent with their decision. Maybe if they hear of the impact, from the mouths of many, the might (hopefully) understand the bigger picture.
On Thu, Oct 24, 2024, 12:36 AM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Wall Township has decreed that the Sandy bunk area may no longer be used for overnight stays. They say that it is an insurance liability. InfoAge has been trying to convince them that it isn’t a problem. InfoAge will lose money over this.
This is very disappointing and I know frustrating to those who have used the inexpensive volunteer stay over. There’s nothing VCF can do at the moment.
VCF and InfoAge will continue to try to convince them, but for the time being no one can sleep overnight in that area.
So unfortunately volunteers will have to find a hotel or other arrangements for overnight stays.
Jeff Brace Vintage Computer Festival East Showrunner VCF Mid-Atlantic Event Manager Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity https://vcfed.org/ <http://www.vcfed.org/> jeffrey@vcfed.org
-- Dave Shevett shevett@pobox.com
Concerning the mindset behind the decision to end bunkhouse use over a liability issue, I doubt it. It might risk getting charged by the Township constabulary for vagrancy and have your RV impounded. On Thu, Oct 24, 2024, 8:47 AM Dave Shevett via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Is there a possibility of parking small campers on the grounds? Some folks have their own.
On Thu, Oct 24, 2024 at 8:19 AM Glenn Roberts via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I'd be interested in hearing from the VCF board with a plan of action on how we as members can help. I (and probably many others) am happy to appeal to the appropriate authorities, either as an individual or as part of a group effort (e.g. petition). We need guidance from the board on what the planned response is... I have lots of questions and things I'm not clear on...
- glenn
-----Original Message----- From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces@lists.vcfed.org> On Behalf Of Jeff S via vcf-midatlantic Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2024 7:47 AM To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Cc: Jeff S <jsalzman@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] No more overnight sleeping at InfoAge
Just to be clear, this isn't InfoAge's decision. They fought for keeping the status quo on this. They are victims, too, if you want to call it that. As far as I know, they haven't exhausted all avenues to get this privilege reinstated.
I, for one, will probably severely curtail my visits to InfoAge if Wall Township's decision remains. I can't afford monthly hotel expenses, especially during tourist season, and I do normally visit at least once per month to help with VCF, and by extension, InfoAge directly.
I'm one person, but when I do visit, my money goes into the community for my food and fun. When I can exercise the privilege of using the bunkhouse, that leaves more money to spread around local businesses, rather than giving most of my budgeted expenses to high-priced lodging.
I'm one voice, but I know I'm not the only one impacted by this decision. Maybe if Wall Township heard directly from all of us, they might see the light.
Perhaps any and all who are affected by this should contact Wall Township directly. It's public knowledge that the edict came directly from them. At least it might let them become intimately aware there is a potential community impact from this decision. If they start receiving direct correspondence from the public, maybe they'll realize this impact. Right now, they don't hear all the voices, so it would be so easy for them to be complacent with their decision. Maybe if they hear of the impact, from the mouths of many, the might (hopefully) understand the bigger picture.
On Thu, Oct 24, 2024, 12:36 AM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Wall Township has decreed that the Sandy bunk area may no longer be used for overnight stays. They say that it is an insurance liability. InfoAge has been trying to convince them that it isn’t a problem. InfoAge will lose money over this.
This is very disappointing and I know frustrating to those who have used the inexpensive volunteer stay over. There’s nothing VCF can do at the moment.
VCF and InfoAge will continue to try to convince them, but for the time being no one can sleep overnight in that area.
So unfortunately volunteers will have to find a hotel or other arrangements for overnight stays.
Jeff Brace Vintage Computer Festival East Showrunner VCF Mid-Atlantic Event Manager Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity https://vcfed.org/ <http://www.vcfed.org/> jeffrey@vcfed.org
-- Dave Shevett shevett@pobox.com
The law in Wall township dictates that 'mobile homes' cannot be used anywhere that hasn't been specifically zoned for their use - most likely to do with water/electricity/sewage code. So, unfortunately, it seems that isn't an option right now. As has been said before, the steering committee is working hard to figure out what needs to be done to get use of the bunks back. This may require that we make changes to how we determine membership, for instance, as some of this insurance liability may hinge on whether or not the people staying in the bunks can be legally deemed as "benefactors" to VCFed/Infoage or not. The final details remain to be seen... On Thu, Oct 24, 2024 at 8:47 AM Dave Shevett via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Is there a possibility of parking small campers on the grounds? Some folks have their own.
On Thu, Oct 24, 2024 at 8:19 AM Glenn Roberts via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I'd be interested in hearing from the VCF board with a plan of action on how we as members can help. I (and probably many others) am happy to appeal to the appropriate authorities, either as an individual or as part of a group effort (e.g. petition). We need guidance from the board on what the planned response is... I have lots of questions and things I'm not clear on...
- glenn
-----Original Message----- From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces@lists.vcfed.org> On Behalf Of Jeff S via vcf-midatlantic Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2024 7:47 AM To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Cc: Jeff S <jsalzman@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] No more overnight sleeping at InfoAge
Just to be clear, this isn't InfoAge's decision. They fought for keeping the status quo on this. They are victims, too, if you want to call it that. As far as I know, they haven't exhausted all avenues to get this privilege reinstated.
I, for one, will probably severely curtail my visits to InfoAge if Wall Township's decision remains. I can't afford monthly hotel expenses, especially during tourist season, and I do normally visit at least once per month to help with VCF, and by extension, InfoAge directly.
I'm one person, but when I do visit, my money goes into the community for my food and fun. When I can exercise the privilege of using the bunkhouse, that leaves more money to spread around local businesses, rather than giving most of my budgeted expenses to high-priced lodging.
I'm one voice, but I know I'm not the only one impacted by this decision. Maybe if Wall Township heard directly from all of us, they might see the light.
Perhaps any and all who are affected by this should contact Wall Township directly. It's public knowledge that the edict came directly from them. At least it might let them become intimately aware there is a potential community impact from this decision. If they start receiving direct correspondence from the public, maybe they'll realize this impact. Right now, they don't hear all the voices, so it would be so easy for them to be complacent with their decision. Maybe if they hear of the impact, from the mouths of many, the might (hopefully) understand the bigger picture.
On Thu, Oct 24, 2024, 12:36 AM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Wall Township has decreed that the Sandy bunk area may no longer be used for overnight stays. They say that it is an insurance liability. InfoAge has been trying to convince them that it isn’t a problem. InfoAge will lose money over this.
This is very disappointing and I know frustrating to those who have used the inexpensive volunteer stay over. There’s nothing VCF can do at the moment.
VCF and InfoAge will continue to try to convince them, but for the time being no one can sleep overnight in that area.
So unfortunately volunteers will have to find a hotel or other arrangements for overnight stays.
Jeff Brace Vintage Computer Festival East Showrunner VCF Mid-Atlantic Event Manager Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity https://vcfed.org/ <http://www.vcfed.org/> jeffrey@vcfed.org
-- Dave Shevett shevett@pobox.com
With the intention of leaving the interaction between InfoAge and wall to the Steering committee, I offer the following observation: Wall has already refused requests to store, stage, or repair mobile homes / camping trailers at Camp Evans - it's not anything new. Martin Flynn On 10/24/2024 9:05 AM, Thomas G via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
The law in Wall township dictates that 'mobile homes' cannot be used anywhere that hasn't been specifically zoned for their use - most likely to do with water/electricity/sewage code. So, unfortunately, it seems that isn't an option right now.
As has been said before, the steering committee is working hard to figure out what needs to be done to get use of the bunks back. This may require that we make changes to how we determine membership, for instance, as some of this insurance liability may hinge on whether or not the people staying in the bunks can be legally deemed as "benefactors" to VCFed/Infoage or not. The final details remain to be seen...
On Thu, Oct 24, 2024 at 8:47 AM Dave Shevett via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Is there a possibility of parking small campers on the grounds? Some folks have their own.
On Thu, Oct 24, 2024 at 8:19 AM Glenn Roberts via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I'd be interested in hearing from the VCF board with a plan of action on how we as members can help. I (and probably many others) am happy to appeal to the appropriate authorities, either as an individual or as part of a group effort (e.g. petition). We need guidance from the board on what the planned response is... I have lots of questions and things I'm not clear on...
- glenn
-----Original Message----- From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces@lists.vcfed.org> On Behalf Of Jeff S via vcf-midatlantic Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2024 7:47 AM To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Cc: Jeff S <jsalzman@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] No more overnight sleeping at InfoAge
Just to be clear, this isn't InfoAge's decision. They fought for keeping the status quo on this. They are victims, too, if you want to call it that. As far as I know, they haven't exhausted all avenues to get this privilege reinstated.
I, for one, will probably severely curtail my visits to InfoAge if Wall Township's decision remains. I can't afford monthly hotel expenses, especially during tourist season, and I do normally visit at least once per month to help with VCF, and by extension, InfoAge directly.
I'm one person, but when I do visit, my money goes into the community for my food and fun. When I can exercise the privilege of using the bunkhouse, that leaves more money to spread around local businesses, rather than giving most of my budgeted expenses to high-priced lodging.
I'm one voice, but I know I'm not the only one impacted by this decision. Maybe if Wall Township heard directly from all of us, they might see the light.
Perhaps any and all who are affected by this should contact Wall Township directly. It's public knowledge that the edict came directly from them. At least it might let them become intimately aware there is a potential community impact from this decision. If they start receiving direct correspondence from the public, maybe they'll realize this impact. Right now, they don't hear all the voices, so it would be so easy for them to be complacent with their decision. Maybe if they hear of the impact, from the mouths of many, the might (hopefully) understand the bigger picture.
On Thu, Oct 24, 2024, 12:36 AM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Wall Township has decreed that the Sandy bunk area may no longer be used for overnight stays. They say that it is an insurance liability. InfoAge has been trying to convince them that it isn’t a problem. InfoAge will lose money over this.
This is very disappointing and I know frustrating to those who have used the inexpensive volunteer stay over. There’s nothing VCF can do at the moment.
VCF and InfoAge will continue to try to convince them, but for the time being no one can sleep overnight in that area.
So unfortunately volunteers will have to find a hotel or other arrangements for overnight stays.
Jeff Brace Vintage Computer Festival East Showrunner VCF Mid-Atlantic Event Manager Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity https://vcfed.org/ <http://www.vcfed.org/> jeffrey@vcfed.org
-- Dave Shevett shevett@pobox.com
It looks like it "may" fall under this https://www.wallnj.gov/DocumentCenter/View/2710/Ordinance-8-2017-Transient-G... The reality is the Steering Committee needs to go through the issue with their legal help and find what they need to do. They will then tell us what help they need.
Many Walmarts, Lowe’s, Sam’s Clubs support camping in their parking lots. No hookups or anything like that but it’s a place to stay if you have the amenities in your RV. Not sure if any of those are nearby InfoAge & of course you’ll have to double check if the one you’re looking at actually allows camping on their property. Benjamin Krein Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 24, 2024, at 2:17 PM, Christian Liendo via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
It looks like it "may" fall under this
https://www.wallnj.gov/DocumentCenter/View/2710/Ordinance-8-2017-Transient-G...
The reality is the Steering Committee needs to go through the issue with their legal help and find what they need to do.
They will then tell us what help they need.
Suggestion: let's suspend the discussion on this and await guidance from the steering committee. Keep the posts here focused on more interesting stuff ... like vintage computing! 😊 -----Original Message----- From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces@lists.vcfed.org> On Behalf Of Benjamin Krein via vcf-midatlantic Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2024 9:30 AM To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Cc: Benjamin Krein <superbenk@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] No more overnight sleeping at InfoAge Many Walmarts, Lowe’s, Sam’s Clubs support camping in their parking lots. No hookups or anything like that but it’s a place to stay if you have the amenities in your RV. Not sure if any of those are nearby InfoAge & of course you’ll have to double check if the one you’re looking at actually allows camping on their property. Benjamin Krein Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 24, 2024, at 2:17 PM, Christian Liendo via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
It looks like it "may" fall under this
https://www.wallnj.gov/DocumentCenter/View/2710/Ordinance-8-2017-Trans ient-Guests-TABLED-pdf
The reality is the Steering Committee needs to go through the issue with their legal help and find what they need to do.
They will then tell us what help they need.
This is basically a killer for me. Case Wise and I come down from Connecticut to almost every repair workshop. Its a 2.5 hour drive for us and the money we spend goes to gas, food, and the VCF community. Having to stay in a hotel would add a $300 bill to each of our trips down and I know that I can't afford that. I'm more than willing to sign up to be a paid member of VCF Mid- Atlantic, to be honest I don't know why we weren't doing that already. Regards, Dan FitzGerald They/Them or She/Her Classical Computing Laboratory at IBM Poughkeepsie http://www.vm.ibm.com/devpages/dfitzger -----Original Message----- From: Glenn Roberts via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Reply-To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> To: 'vcf-midatlantic' <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Cc: glenn.f.roberts@gmail.com Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] No more overnight sleeping at InfoAge Date: 10/24/2024 09:34:01 AM Suggestion: let's suspend the discussion on this and await guidance from the steering committee. Keep the posts here focused on more interesting stuff ... like vintage computing! 😊 -----Original Message----- From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces@lists.vcfed.org> On Behalf Of Benjamin Krein via vcf-midatlantic Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2024 9:30 AM To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Cc: Benjamin Krein <superbenk@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] No more overnight sleeping at InfoAge Many Walmarts, Lowe’s, Sam’s Clubs support camping in their parking lots. No hookups or anything like that but it’s a place to stay if you have the amenities in your RV. Not sure if any of those are nearby InfoAge & of course you’ll have to double check if the one you’re looking at actually allows camping on their property. Benjamin Krein Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 24, 2024, at 2:17 PM, Christian Liendo via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
It looks like it "may" fall under this
https://www.wallnj.gov/DocumentCenter/View/2710/Ordinance-8-2017-Trans ient-Guests-TABLED-pdf
The reality is the Steering Committee needs to go through the issue with their legal help and find what they need to do.
They will then tell us what help they need.
Not sure asking to supress discussion on this list is what should happen.... The Steering Committee is not a star chamber- they should be executing the will of the membership and interfacing with the admin of InfoAge. To do this they need to know what members are thinking about this issue - which happens via this list. So I encourage people to continue to discuss on this list, it's not just for vintage computing but is for most anything the members need to discuss- and this is a pretty large topic to sort out.
On Oct 24, 2024, at 9:34 AM, Glenn Roberts via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Suggestion: let's suspend the discussion on this and await guidance from the steering committee. Keep the posts here focused on more interesting stuff ... like vintage computing! 😊
-andy (former SteerCo member)
I completely and totally agree, especially when its something that impacts the community like this. It is an issue that poses a real problem to the group and how it affects all of us that go to the repair workshops and we should discuss it. I'll end that Jeff Saltzman's post on the thread yesterday said all of my thoughts better than I could have. I think he hit the nail right on the head. Regards, Dan FitzGerald They/Them or She/Her Classical Computing Laboratory at IBM Poughkeepsie http://www.vm.ibm.com/devpages/dfitzger -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Reply-To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Cc: Andrew Diller <dillera@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] No more overnight sleeping at InfoAge Date: 10/24/2024 03:15:03 PM Not sure asking to supress discussion on this list is what should happen.... The Steering Committee is not a star chamber- they should be executing the will of the membership and interfacing with the admin of InfoAge. To do this they need to know what members are thinking about this issue - which happens via this list. So I encourage people to continue to discuss on this list, it's not just for vintage computing but is for most anything the members need to discuss- and this is a pretty large topic to sort out.
On Oct 24, 2024, at 9:34 AM, Glenn Roberts via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Suggestion: let's suspend the discussion on this and await guidance from the steering committee. Keep the posts here focused on more interesting stuff ... like vintage computing! 😊
-andy (former SteerCo member)
Just curious Does this mean that there is no area to sleep over at all at info age? Sent from: My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device.
On Oct 24, 2024, at 12:36 AM, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Wall Township has decreed that the Sandy bunk area may no longer be used for overnight stays. They say that it is an insurance liability. InfoAge has been trying to convince them that it isn’t a problem. InfoAge will lose money over this.
This is very disappointing and I know frustrating to those who have used the inexpensive volunteer stay over. There’s nothing VCF can do at the moment.
VCF and InfoAge will continue to try to convince them, but for the time being no one can sleep overnight in that area.
So unfortunately volunteers will have to find a hotel or other arrangements for overnight stays.
Jeff Brace Vintage Computer Festival East Showrunner VCF Mid-Atlantic Event Manager Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity https://vcfed.org/ <http://www.vcfed.org/> jeffrey@vcfed.org
participants (16)
-
Andrew Diller -
Bart Hirst -
Benjamin Krein -
Chris Fala -
Christian Liendo -
Dan FitzGerald -
Dave McGuire -
Dave Shevett -
glenn.f.roberts＠gmail.com -
Ian Litchfield -
Jeff S -
Jeffrey Brace -
Martin A. Flynn -
RETRO Innovations -
Sentrytv -
Thomas G