An interesting fact about KERMIT the communications protocol, is that it is owned and was actively supported by Columbia University, for over 30 years. They still assert ownership, but don't provide active support today. There's few early microcomputer products or services that have had such long interest by the originators; fewer still with CURRENT interest from the owners. http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ Columbia U's site had KERMITs for many many kinds of microcomputers and minicomputers and more. So their interest wasn't casual, they provided real resources, and also charged for some services. They apparently still sell some kind of use license. I'd be curious to hear about this at VCF-East, but that's up to Doug, he may be more interested in the technical side of KERMIT and the superbrain of course. herb -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net