Xerox Wildflowers - Dandelions and Daybreaks
I know DavidG has done some amazing work (along with other members) on VCF's 8010 (Dandelion)... And strangely enough the same day (yesterday) someone on the SGI Discord I frequent posted this amazing video, which I thought I'd share to interested people here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Dlr5rY9SI <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Dlr5rY9SI> Of a Daybreak (Xerox 6085) booting up into ViewPoint 2.0 and using the apps. VCF also has a Daybreak which would be great to get fully functional again as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Daybreak <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Daybreak> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Star <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Star> I'm not sure of the dates, but do people know if the Xerox Star would have been the system that Jobs and the Apple team viewed at Xerox back when they had their infamous visits? Or were those Altos? -andy
Legend says Star, but Corey or Tony May have better info On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 10:13 AM Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I know DavidG has done some amazing work (along with other members) on VCF's 8010 (Dandelion)... And strangely enough the same day (yesterday) someone on the SGI Discord I frequent posted this amazing video, which I thought I'd share to interested people here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Dlr5rY9SI < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Dlr5rY9SI>
Of a Daybreak (Xerox 6085) booting up into ViewPoint 2.0 and using the apps. VCF also has a Daybreak which would be great to get fully functional again as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Daybreak < https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Daybreak>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Star < https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Star>
I'm not sure of the dates, but do people know if the Xerox Star would have been the system that Jobs and the Apple team viewed at Xerox back when they had their infamous visits? Or were those Altos?
-andy
A later Alto most likely is what Steve Jobs saw if I can put in my 2 cents. b On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 10:27 AM Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Legend says Star, but Corey or Tony May have better info
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 10:13 AM Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I know DavidG has done some amazing work (along with other members) on VCF's 8010 (Dandelion)... And strangely enough the same day (yesterday) someone on the SGI Discord I frequent posted this amazing video, which I thought I'd share to interested people here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Dlr5rY9SI < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Dlr5rY9SI>
Of a Daybreak (Xerox 6085) booting up into ViewPoint 2.0 and using the apps. VCF also has a Daybreak which would be great to get fully functional again as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Daybreak < https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Daybreak>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Star < https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Star>
I'm not sure of the dates, but do people know if the Xerox Star would have been the system that Jobs and the Apple team viewed at Xerox back when they had their infamous visits? Or were those Altos?
-andy
Thanks, Bill! On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 10:33 AM Bill Degnan via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
A later Alto most likely is what Steve Jobs saw if I can put in my 2 cents.
b
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 10:27 AM Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic <
vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Legend says Star, but Corey or Tony May have better info
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 10:13 AM Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic <
vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I know DavidG has done some amazing work (along with other members) on
VCF's 8010 (Dandelion)... And strangely enough the same day (yesterday)
someone on the SGI Discord I frequent posted this amazing video, which I
thought I'd share to interested people here:
Of a Daybreak (Xerox 6085) booting up into ViewPoint 2.0 and using the
apps. VCF also has a Daybreak which would be great to get fully
functional
again as well.
I'm not sure of the dates, but do people know if the Xerox Star would
have
been the system that Jobs and the Apple team viewed at Xerox back when
they
had their infamous visits? Or were those Altos?
-andy
As I learn more about these systems and start to see them working, it's hard not to realize the folly Xerox engaged in here. They had not 1, not 2, but 3 entire hardware generations of systems (Alto->Dandelion->Daybreak) to refine the desktop and GUI application suite concept. They controlled both the hardware and the software for these systems. The _owned_ the copier / laser printer market- and could do anything they wanted in terms of output for these devices to paper. They invented ethernet and had the whole interconnected network/office lan designed and done. And then they let Apple come in... and with later help from Canon (LaserWriter) define and dominate the Desktop publishing market.. which Xerox had completely invented, refined deployed and had working (eating their own dog food) for years. It's just astonishing when you consider the possibilities that Xerox had in 1983-86 and just completely punted on. -andy
On Aug 17, 2020, at 10:26 AM, Dean Notarnicola <dean.notarnicola@vcfed.org> wrote:
Legend says Star, but Corey or Tony May have better info
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 10:13 AM Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org <mailto:vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org>> wrote: I know DavidG has done some amazing work (along with other members) on VCF's 8010 (Dandelion)... And strangely enough the same day (yesterday) someone on the SGI Discord I frequent posted this amazing video, which I thought I'd share to interested people here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Dlr5rY9SI <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Dlr5rY9SI> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Dlr5rY9SI <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Dlr5rY9SI>>
Of a Daybreak (Xerox 6085) booting up into ViewPoint 2.0 and using the apps. VCF also has a Daybreak which would be great to get fully functional again as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Daybreak <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Daybreak> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Daybreak <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Daybreak>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Star <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Star> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Star <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Star>>
I'm not sure of the dates, but do people know if the Xerox Star would have been the system that Jobs and the Apple team viewed at Xerox back when they had their infamous visits? Or were those Altos?
-andy
Xerox’s fatal flaw was underestimating the low-end business and consumer markets, something Apple quickly took advantage of. On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 10:40 AM Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
As I learn more about these systems and start to see them working, it's hard not to realize the folly Xerox engaged in here. They had not 1, not 2, but 3 entire hardware generations of systems (Alto->Dandelion->Daybreak) to refine the desktop and GUI application suite concept.
They controlled both the hardware and the software for these systems.
The _owned_ the copier / laser printer market- and could do anything they wanted in terms of output for these devices to paper.
They invented ethernet and had the whole interconnected network/office lan designed and done.
And then they let Apple come in... and with later help from Canon (LaserWriter) define and dominate the Desktop publishing market.. which Xerox had completely invented, refined deployed and had working (eating their own dog food) for years.
It's just astonishing when you consider the possibilities that Xerox had in 1983-86 and just completely punted on.
-andy
On Aug 17, 2020, at 10:26 AM, Dean Notarnicola < dean.notarnicola@vcfed.org> wrote:
Legend says Star, but Corey or Tony May have better info
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 10:13 AM Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org <mailto:vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org>> wrote:
I know DavidG has done some amazing work (along with other members) on VCF's 8010 (Dandelion)... And strangely enough the same day (yesterday) someone on the SGI Discord I frequent posted this amazing video, which I thought I'd share to interested people here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Dlr5rY9SI < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Dlr5rY9SI> < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Dlr5rY9SI < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Dlr5rY9SI>>
Of a Daybreak (Xerox 6085) booting up into ViewPoint 2.0 and using the apps. VCF also has a Daybreak which would be great to get fully functional again as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Daybreak < https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Daybreak> < https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Daybreak < https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Daybreak>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Star < https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Star> < https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Star < https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Star>>
I'm not sure of the dates, but do people know if the Xerox Star would have been the system that Jobs and the Apple team viewed at Xerox back when they had their infamous visits? Or were those Altos?
-andy
When I was working at IBM and DuPont in the late 80's one of the first things I was tasked to do was compare and contrast the Xerox system PageMaker program vs. the new IBM OS/2 version of the same program for sales demos etc. I also worked with an Mac II system. I thought the OS/2 verson was easier to use. One of the things about Xerox back then was that there was nothing simple about the GUI, especially setting things up. Later at ICI I used a Xerox i386 system that we used to use to compile DOS-based applications (why my company did that I don't know). Soon after that Xerox was completely gone from the office environment. OS/2 never took off as an OS for desktop publishing but IBM did try. MAC was left alone by 1994. I was 24 years old and I had already worked at IBM, DuPont, ICI, Blue Cross and saw a huge raft of changes 1987-1994 was a huge transition time. I also worked with some XWindows DEC systems. On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 10:40 AM Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
As I learn more about these systems and start to see them working, it's hard not to realize the folly Xerox engaged in here. They had not 1, not 2, but 3 entire hardware generations of systems (Alto->Dandelion->Daybreak) to refine the desktop and GUI application suite concept.
They controlled both the hardware and the software for these systems.
The _owned_ the copier / laser printer market- and could do anything they wanted in terms of output for these devices to paper.
They invented ethernet and had the whole interconnected network/office lan designed and done.
And then they let Apple come in... and with later help from Canon (LaserWriter) define and dominate the Desktop publishing market.. which Xerox had completely invented, refined deployed and had working (eating their own dog food) for years.
It's just astonishing when you consider the possibilities that Xerox had in 1983-86 and just completely punted on.
-andy
On Aug 17, 2020, at 10:26 AM, Dean Notarnicola < dean.notarnicola@vcfed.org> wrote:
Legend says Star, but Corey or Tony May have better info
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 10:13 AM Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org <mailto:vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org>> wrote: I know DavidG has done some amazing work (along with other members) on VCF's 8010 (Dandelion)... And strangely enough the same day (yesterday) someone on the SGI Discord I frequent posted this amazing video, which I thought I'd share to interested people here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Dlr5rY9SI < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Dlr5rY9SI> < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Dlr5rY9SI < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Dlr5rY9SI>>
Of a Daybreak (Xerox 6085) booting up into ViewPoint 2.0 and using the apps. VCF also has a Daybreak which would be great to get fully functional again as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Daybreak < https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Daybreak> < https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Daybreak < https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Daybreak>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Star < https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Star> < https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Star < https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Star>>
I'm not sure of the dates, but do people know if the Xerox Star would have been the system that Jobs and the Apple team viewed at Xerox back when they had their infamous visits? Or were those Altos?
-andy
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 10:08 AM Andrew Diller <dillera@gmail.com> wrote:
I know DavidG has done some amazing work (along with other members) on VCF's 8010 (*Dandelion)*... And strangely enough the same day (yesterday) someone on the SGI Discord I frequent posted this amazing video, which I thought I'd share to interested people here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Dlr5rY9SI
Of a Daybreak (*Xerox 6085)* booting up into ViewPoint 2.0 and using the apps. VCF also has a Daybreak which would be great to get fully functional again as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Daybreak
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Star
I'm not sure of the dates, but do people know if the Xerox Star would have been the system that Jobs and the Apple team viewed at Xerox back when they had their infamous visits? Or were those Altos?
I wonder if the book "Dealers of Lightning" has any details about this.
-andy
-- ========================================= Jeff Brace Vice President & Board Member Vintage Computer Festival East Show-runner Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity http://www.vcfed.org/ jeffrey@vcfed.org cell: 732-759-1783
Turns out it was Altos. The Star was the commercialized successor to the Alto. On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 2:59 PM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 10:08 AM Andrew Diller <dillera@gmail.com> wrote:
I know DavidG has done some amazing work (along with other members) on VCF's 8010 (*Dandelion)*... And strangely enough the same day (yesterday) someone on the SGI Discord I frequent posted this amazing video, which I thought I'd share to interested people here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Dlr5rY9SI
Of a Daybreak (*Xerox 6085)* booting up into ViewPoint 2.0 and using the apps. VCF also has a Daybreak which would be great to get fully functional again as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Daybreak
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Star
I'm not sure of the dates, but do people know if the Xerox Star would have been the system that Jobs and the Apple team viewed at Xerox back when they had their infamous visits? Or were those Altos?
I wonder if the book "Dealers of Lightning" has any details about this.
-andy
-- ========================================= Jeff Brace Vice President & Board Member Vintage Computer Festival East Show-runner Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity http://www.vcfed.org/ jeffrey@vcfed.org cell: 732-759-1783
My father, who was working at Exxon at the time, got special permission through his boss to visit PARC some time, he thinks, between 78-82... not entirely sure. He is pretty certain it was before Jobs visited, but he can't be sure. Apparently he had to all but sign his first born away (*phew*) that he wouldn't leak any secrets. What he is crystal clear on is that he was shown the Alto and the Dorado and not the Star and that Xerox had no commericial products of the GUI computer ilk. He would later purchase a Star as part of responsibilities at Exxon, probably around 1983. As to how Xerox could have dropped the ball.. it is more like how could they not have dropped the ball. They were a *copier* company and they were making money hand over fist selling copiers. This new fangled computer business? Meh. They also lost out on the personal laser printer and Ethernet (double doh!). On 8/17/2020 3:07 PM, Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Turns out it was Altos. The Star was the commercialized successor to the Alto.
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 2:59 PM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 10:08 AM Andrew Diller <dillera@gmail.com> wrote:
I know DavidG has done some amazing work (along with other members) on VCF's 8010 (*Dandelion)*... And strangely enough the same day (yesterday) someone on the SGI Discord I frequent posted this amazing video, which I thought I'd share to interested people here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Dlr5rY9SI
Of a Daybreak (*Xerox 6085)* booting up into ViewPoint 2.0 and using the apps. VCF also has a Daybreak which would be great to get fully functional again as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Daybreak
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Star
I'm not sure of the dates, but do people know if the Xerox Star would have been the system that Jobs and the Apple team viewed at Xerox back when they had their infamous visits? Or were those Altos?
I wonder if the book "Dealers of Lightning" has any details about this.
-andy
-- ========================================= Jeff Brace Vice President & Board Member Vintage Computer Festival East Show-runner Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity http://www.vcfed.org/ jeffrey@vcfed.org cell: 732-759-1783
Yes, exactly. They were focused on advanced document processing systems and couldn’t even hold onto that market, even with such advanced tech. On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 4:46 PM Adam Michlin <amichlin@swerlin.com> wrote:
My father, who was working at Exxon at the time, got special permission
through his boss to visit PARC some time, he thinks, between 78-82...
not entirely sure. He is pretty certain it was before Jobs visited, but
he can't be sure. Apparently he had to all but sign his first born away
(*phew*) that he wouldn't leak any secrets.
What he is crystal clear on is that he was shown the Alto and the Dorado
and not the Star and that Xerox had no commericial products of the GUI
computer ilk. He would later purchase a Star as part of responsibilities
at Exxon, probably around 1983.
As to how Xerox could have dropped the ball.. it is more like how could
they not have dropped the ball. They were a *copier* company and they
were making money hand over fist selling copiers. This new fangled
computer business? Meh. They also lost out on the personal laser printer
and Ethernet (double doh!).
On 8/17/2020 3:07 PM, Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Turns out it was Altos. The Star was the commercialized successor to the
Alto.
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 2:59 PM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic <
vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 10:08 AM Andrew Diller <dillera@gmail.com> wrote:
I know DavidG has done some amazing work (along with other members) on
VCF's 8010 (*Dandelion)*... And strangely enough the same day (yesterday)
someone on the SGI Discord I frequent posted this amazing video, which I
thought I'd share to interested people here:
Of a Daybreak (*Xerox 6085)* booting up into ViewPoint 2.0 and using the
apps. VCF also has a Daybreak which would be great to get fully
functional
again as well.
I'm not sure of the dates, but do people know if the Xerox Star would
have
been the system that Jobs and the Apple team viewed at Xerox back when
they
had their infamous visits? Or were those Altos?
I wonder if the book "Dealers of Lightning" has any details about this.
-andy
--
=========================================
Jeff Brace
Vice President & Board Member
Vintage Computer Festival East Show-runner
Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity
jeffrey@vcfed.org
cell: 732-759-1783
While we know better, I still find it amusing that people believe that jobs was “visiting” PARC, or given a “tour,” saw the Alto/Star/whatever machine running the GUI, ran back to Apple and “stole” Xerox’s ideas and created the Mac. I find it amusing because there is ample evidence to prove no such thing ever happened, in reality it was a business deal that in essence traded Apple stock for use of Xerox IP, but I guess the conspiracy sites are more fun to read. Tony Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 17, 2020, at 4:49 PM, Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Yes, exactly. They were focused on advanced document processing systems and couldn’t even hold onto that market, even with such advanced tech.
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 4:46 PM Adam Michlin <amichlin@swerlin.com> wrote:
My father, who was working at Exxon at the time, got special permission
through his boss to visit PARC some time, he thinks, between 78-82...
not entirely sure. He is pretty certain it was before Jobs visited, but
he can't be sure. Apparently he had to all but sign his first born away
(*phew*) that he wouldn't leak any secrets.
What he is crystal clear on is that he was shown the Alto and the Dorado
and not the Star and that Xerox had no commericial products of the GUI
computer ilk. He would later purchase a Star as part of responsibilities
at Exxon, probably around 1983.
As to how Xerox could have dropped the ball.. it is more like how could
they not have dropped the ball. They were a *copier* company and they
were making money hand over fist selling copiers. This new fangled
computer business? Meh. They also lost out on the personal laser printer
and Ethernet (double doh!).
On 8/17/2020 3:07 PM, Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Turns out it was Altos. The Star was the commercialized successor to the
Alto.
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 2:59 PM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic <
vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 10:08 AM Andrew Diller <dillera@gmail.com> wrote:
I know DavidG has done some amazing work (along with other members) on
VCF's 8010 (*Dandelion)*... And strangely enough the same day (yesterday)
someone on the SGI Discord I frequent posted this amazing video, which I
thought I'd share to interested people here:
Of a Daybreak (*Xerox 6085)* booting up into ViewPoint 2.0 and using the
apps. VCF also has a Daybreak which would be great to get fully
functional
again as well.
I'm not sure of the dates, but do people know if the Xerox Star would
have
been the system that Jobs and the Apple team viewed at Xerox back when
they
had their infamous visits? Or were those Altos?
I wonder if the book "Dealers of Lightning" has any details about this.
-andy
--
=========================================
Jeff Brace
Vice President & Board Member
Vintage Computer Festival East Show-runner
Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity
jeffrey@vcfed.org
cell: 732-759-1783
Here's my favorite disconnect video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-Tl8v9euJE Internal Xerox sales video comparing, I believe, the Star to a Mac and an IBM PC. And people who haven't used a Star don't realize how flawed that original GUI was. I'm sure most of us have seen: https://www.folklore.org/ But, if you haven't, prepare to spend some serious time reading about the early days of the Macintosh. So many things people assume were invented by Xerox were most certainly not. On 8/17/2020 7:11 PM, Tony Bogan wrote:
While we know better, I still find it amusing that people believe that jobs was “visiting” PARC, or given a “tour,” saw the Alto/Star/whatever machine running the GUI, ran back to Apple and “stole” Xerox’s ideas and created the Mac.
I find it amusing because there is ample evidence to prove no such thing ever happened, in reality it was a business deal that in essence traded Apple stock for use of Xerox IP, but I guess the conspiracy sites are more fun to read.
Tony
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 17, 2020, at 4:49 PM, Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Yes, exactly. They were focused on advanced document processing systems and couldn’t even hold onto that market, even with such advanced tech.
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 4:46 PM Adam Michlin <amichlin@swerlin.com> wrote:
My father, who was working at Exxon at the time, got special permission
through his boss to visit PARC some time, he thinks, between 78-82...
not entirely sure. He is pretty certain it was before Jobs visited, but
he can't be sure. Apparently he had to all but sign his first born away
(*phew*) that he wouldn't leak any secrets.
What he is crystal clear on is that he was shown the Alto and the Dorado
and not the Star and that Xerox had no commericial products of the GUI
computer ilk. He would later purchase a Star as part of responsibilities
at Exxon, probably around 1983.
As to how Xerox could have dropped the ball.. it is more like how could
they not have dropped the ball. They were a *copier* company and they
were making money hand over fist selling copiers. This new fangled
computer business? Meh. They also lost out on the personal laser printer
and Ethernet (double doh!).
On 8/17/2020 3:07 PM, Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Turns out it was Altos. The Star was the commercialized successor to the Alto.
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 7:12 PM Tony Bogan via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
While we know better, I still find it amusing that people believe that jobs was “visiting” PARC, or given a “tour,” saw the Alto/Star/whatever machine running the GUI, ran back to Apple and “stole” Xerox’s ideas and created the Mac.
There is more to the story. If you read Dealers of Lightning, then you will know that Jobs got permission to look at the code and Xerox had a programmer walk through all the coding. It was more than just a tour and a stock swap. Much, much more. We have the book in the museum. It's a great read on the story of Xerox Parc.
I find it amusing because there is ample evidence to prove no such thing ever happened, in reality it was a business deal that in essence traded Apple stock for use of Xerox IP, but I guess the conspiracy sites are more fun to read.
Tony
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 17, 2020, at 4:49 PM, Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Yes, exactly. They were focused on advanced document processing systems and couldn’t even hold onto that market, even with such advanced tech.
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 4:46 PM Adam Michlin <amichlin@swerlin.com> wrote:
My father, who was working at Exxon at the time, got special permission
through his boss to visit PARC some time, he thinks, between 78-82...
not entirely sure. He is pretty certain it was before Jobs visited, but
he can't be sure. Apparently he had to all but sign his first born away
(*phew*) that he wouldn't leak any secrets.
What he is crystal clear on is that he was shown the Alto and the Dorado
and not the Star and that Xerox had no commericial products of the GUI
computer ilk. He would later purchase a Star as part of responsibilities
at Exxon, probably around 1983.
As to how Xerox could have dropped the ball.. it is more like how could
they not have dropped the ball. They were a *copier* company and they
were making money hand over fist selling copiers. This new fangled
computer business? Meh. They also lost out on the personal laser printer
and Ethernet (double doh!).
On 8/17/2020 3:07 PM, Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Turns out it was Altos. The Star was the commercialized successor to the
Alto.
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 2:59 PM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic <
vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 10:08 AM Andrew Diller <dillera@gmail.com> wrote:
I know DavidG has done some amazing work (along with other members) on
VCF's 8010 (*Dandelion)*... And strangely enough the same day (yesterday)
someone on the SGI Discord I frequent posted this amazing video, which I
thought I'd share to interested people here:
Of a Daybreak (*Xerox 6085)* booting up into ViewPoint 2.0 and using the
apps. VCF also has a Daybreak which would be great to get fully
functional
again as well.
I'm not sure of the dates, but do people know if the Xerox Star would
have
been the system that Jobs and the Apple team viewed at Xerox back when
they
had their infamous visits? Or were those Altos?
I wonder if the book "Dealers of Lightning" has any details about this.
-andy
--
=========================================
Jeff Brace
Vice President & Board Member
Vintage Computer Festival East Show-runner
Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity
jeffrey@vcfed.org
cell: 732-759-1783
-- ========================================= Jeff Brace Vice President & Board Member Vintage Computer Festival East Show-runner Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity http://www.vcfed.org/ jeffrey@vcfed.org cell: 732-759-1783
participants (8)
-
Adam Michlin -
Andrew Diller -
Bill Degnan -
Dean Notarnicola -
Dean Notarnicola -
Douglas Crawford -
Jeffrey Brace -
Tony Bogan