Evan wrote:
For the [HOPE] exhibit, I would like to show vintage computer robotics.... fix up our HERO....a Minimover arm can beg/borrow/steal ...We also have a robot kit for the Commodore 64.. Are there any other products we should consider for this exhibit? It should be limited to 70s/80s (assuming there's nothing for the PDP-8!)
PS - I found a lot of * computerized * robots -- those with CPUs inside -- but for this exhibit I'd like to focus on robots * connected * to computers, so we can show the computation side of things.
end quote.
Well, a quick comment is: show a PDP-8 with a Calcomp plotter. It's robotic, and computational, and "has the additional advantage of being true". Minicomputers ran robots in the 70's - that's all they had! for some time at least. But you're not gonna haul a minicomputer to HOPE. And certainly the HERO and Minimover and items are fine. But I object to your notion linking 1970's micros & "robots connected to computers.. for computation". I'm lecturing deliberately, so you have something to say to Hope attendees who would mock what seems like an Arduino on wheels. I'll remind you - I mean them - there were many more computers in private and small-company hands in the 80's than in the 70's - in the 70's there wasn't so much to connect a robot TO. And a micro board kit that ran motors STILL cost a few hundred dollars in the 1970's (when that would buy a decent used car). But buying a micro board that actually DID something physical, not just "blink lights", was a good excuse (to your boss, your spouse) to buy a microcomputer board, to learn the technology. Also, people in the 70's used such micros to run stuff - I don't know if you'd call a sprinkler system a "robot", but it's the same sort of "computations" and hardware as to move an arm or drive a motor. And many small manufacturers (most WERE small, then) bought single-board microcomputers, to run production equipment - a KIM could run a printing press for instance. here's such a card, from the late 1970's, a small-company product by Lee Hart. http://www.retrotechnology.com/memship/mem_basys.html this could run on solar power! Lee Hart attached motors and switches to it, put it in a box, and called it "ITSABOT". I don't have a photo of that product. Lee sells the 21st century equivalent board today, as a $89 kit. In other words: the 70's was a different world of microprocessors, as the 1980's would be a world where microcomputers became accepted. If someone at Hope is disappointed that a cigar-box robot on wheels "just" follows a white line and can avoid obstacles; explain that microprocessors were new technology, not cheap, and these devices taught the people who made the smarter/cheaper/faster stuff a decade or two later. "People don't mock babies for being toddlers", if you want a quicker reply. But if Hope is not a venue for such things and such lectures, that's your decision, show the Hero, it's pretty impressive for the era. Herb -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net
On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Evan wrote:
For the [HOPE] exhibit, I would like to show vintage computer robotics.... fix up our HERO....a Minimover arm can beg/borrow/steal ...We also have a robot kit for the Commodore 64.. Are there any other products we should consider for this exhibit? It should be limited to 70s/80s (assuming there's nothing for the PDP-8!)
PS - I found a lot of * computerized * robots -- those with CPUs inside -- but for this exhibit I'd like to focus on robots * connected * to computers, so we can show the computation side of things.
end quote.
Well, a quick comment is: show a PDP-8 with a Calcomp plotter. It's robotic, and computational, and "has the additional advantage of being true". Minicomputers ran robots in the 70's - that's all they had! for some time at least. But you're not gonna haul a minicomputer to HOPE.
And certainly the HERO and Minimover and items are fine. But I object to your notion linking 1970's micros & "robots connected to computers.. for computation". I'm lecturing deliberately, so you have something to say to Hope attendees who would mock what seems like an Arduino on wheels.
I'll remind you - I mean them - there were many more computers in private and small-company hands in the 80's than in the 70's - in the 70's there wasn't so much to connect a robot TO. And a micro board kit that ran motors STILL cost a few hundred dollars in the 1970's (when that would buy a decent used car). But buying a micro board that actually DID something physical, not just "blink lights", was a good excuse (to your boss, your spouse) to buy a microcomputer board, to learn the technology.
Also, people in the 70's used such micros to run stuff - I don't know if you'd call a sprinkler system a "robot", but it's the same sort of "computations" and hardware as to move an arm or drive a motor. And many small manufacturers (most WERE small, then) bought single-board microcomputers, to run production equipment - a KIM could run a printing press for instance.
here's such a card, from the late 1970's, a small-company product by Lee Hart.
http://www.retrotechnology.com/memship/mem_basys.html
this could run on solar power! Lee Hart attached motors and switches to it, put it in a box, and called it "ITSABOT". I don't have a photo of that product. Lee sells the 21st century equivalent board today, as a $89 kit.
In other words: the 70's was a different world of microprocessors, as the 1980's would be a world where microcomputers became accepted. If someone at Hope is disappointed that a cigar-box robot on wheels "just" follows a white line and can avoid obstacles; explain that microprocessors were new technology, not cheap, and these devices taught the people who made the smarter/cheaper/faster stuff a decade or two later. "People don't mock babies for being toddlers", if you want a quicker reply.
But if Hope is not a venue for such things and such lectures, that's your decision, show the Hero, it's pretty impressive for the era.
Back in the 1970s, robot projects were already getting popular And microcomputer revolution is what paved the wave. I build several of these popular projects while in school in the 70s But only kept the books, alas, those robots met their timely demise in the scrap bin[parts donated to another project] Beginning with a robot using a discrete TTL computer brain from a popular author, David Heiserman, Build your own Work Robot [1978] http://www.amazon.com/How-build-computer-controlled-robot-Loofbourrow/dp/081... And then there was this robot project with a built-in KIM-1 How to build a computer controlled robot by Tod Loofbourrow[1978] http://www.amazon.com/How-build-computer-controlled-robot-Loofbourrow/dp/081... And this continued on in the 80s while taking some robotics courses Along some of the popular robot kits, we even made our own robot projects. Simply because it was cheaper buying your own parts I made one using the traditional R2D2'esc chassis, with an internal 22/44 pin card cage for the various interfaces. And one included a brain using only a Timex Sinclair 1000, and another included a brain using only a RS MC-10 Because the were much smaller than a KIM-1 Dan
http://vintagecomputer.net/robots.cfm ...a semi-OT reply, a little page I wrote in Nov 2006 before I changed my web site format.....about finding an old Science and Mechanics magazine with Robots! on the cover on my way to VCF 9.0 (West, before there was a "West". I scanned photos (not the best scans) and re-typed the article. b On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Dan Roganti via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Evan wrote:
For the [HOPE] exhibit, I would like to show vintage computer
robotics....
fix up our HERO....a Minimover arm can beg/borrow/steal ...We also have a robot kit for the Commodore 64.. Are there any other products we should consider for this exhibit? It should be limited to 70s/80s (assuming there's nothing for the PDP-8!)
PS - I found a lot of * computerized * robots -- those with CPUs inside -- but for this exhibit I'd like to focus on robots * connected * to computers, so we can show the computation side of things.
end quote.
Well, a quick comment is: show a PDP-8 with a Calcomp plotter. It's robotic, and computational, and "has the additional advantage of being true". Minicomputers ran robots in the 70's - that's all they had! for some time at least. But you're not gonna haul a minicomputer to HOPE.
And certainly the HERO and Minimover and items are fine. But I object to your notion linking 1970's micros & "robots connected to computers.. for computation". I'm lecturing deliberately, so you have something to say to Hope attendees who would mock what seems like an Arduino on wheels.
I'll remind you - I mean them - there were many more computers in private and small-company hands in the 80's than in the 70's - in the 70's there wasn't so much to connect a robot TO. And a micro board kit that ran motors STILL cost a few hundred dollars in the 1970's (when that would buy a decent used car). But buying a micro board that actually DID something physical, not just "blink lights", was a good excuse (to your boss, your spouse) to buy a microcomputer board, to learn the technology.
Also, people in the 70's used such micros to run stuff - I don't know if you'd call a sprinkler system a "robot", but it's the same sort of "computations" and hardware as to move an arm or drive a motor. And many small manufacturers (most WERE small, then) bought single-board microcomputers, to run production equipment - a KIM could run a printing press for instance.
here's such a card, from the late 1970's, a small-company product by Lee Hart.
http://www.retrotechnology.com/memship/mem_basys.html
this could run on solar power! Lee Hart attached motors and switches to it, put it in a box, and called it "ITSABOT". I don't have a photo of that product. Lee sells the 21st century equivalent board today, as a $89 kit.
In other words: the 70's was a different world of microprocessors, as the 1980's would be a world where microcomputers became accepted. If someone at Hope is disappointed that a cigar-box robot on wheels "just" follows a white line and can avoid obstacles; explain that microprocessors were new technology, not cheap, and these devices taught the people who made the smarter/cheaper/faster stuff a decade or two later. "People don't mock babies for being toddlers", if you want a quicker reply.
But if Hope is not a venue for such things and such lectures, that's your decision, show the Hero, it's pretty impressive for the era.
Back in the 1970s, robot projects were already getting popular And microcomputer revolution is what paved the wave. I build several of these popular projects while in school in the 70s But only kept the books, alas, those robots met their timely demise in the scrap bin[parts donated to another project]
Beginning with a robot using a discrete TTL computer brain from a popular author, David Heiserman, Build your own Work Robot [1978]
http://www.amazon.com/How-build-computer-controlled-robot-Loofbourrow/dp/081... And then there was this robot project with a built-in KIM-1 How to build a computer controlled robot by Tod Loofbourrow[1978]
http://www.amazon.com/How-build-computer-controlled-robot-Loofbourrow/dp/081... And this continued on in the 80s while taking some robotics courses Along some of the popular robot kits, we even made our own robot projects. Simply because it was cheaper buying your own parts I made one using the traditional R2D2'esc chassis, with an internal 22/44 pin card cage for the various interfaces. And one included a brain using only a Timex Sinclair 1000, and another included a brain using only a RS MC-10 Because the were much smaller than a KIM-1 Dan
-- @ BillDeg: Web: vintagecomputer.net Twitter: @billdeg <https://twitter.com/billdeg> Youtube: @billdeg <https://www.youtube.com/user/billdeg> Unauthorized Bio <http://www.vintagecomputer.net/readme.cfm>
On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 1:41 PM, william degnan via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
http://vintagecomputer.net/robots.cfm
...a semi-OT reply, a little page I wrote in Nov 2006 before I changed my web site format.....about finding an old Science and Mechanics magazine with Robots! on the cover on my way to VCF 9.0 (West, before there was a "West".
I scanned photos (not the best scans) and re-typed the article.
b
Then there's the Robot Police from the 1920's http://cyberneticzoo.com/robots/1924-radio-police-automaton-gernsback-americ...
David Heiserman, Build your own Work Robot [1978] How to build a computer controlled robot by Tod Loofbourrow[1978]
Thanks Dan. Ordered both books just now. Grand total of $10.68 (shipping included)! They will be nice for the exhibit. Perhaps someone will want to follow the book instructions and actually build one of these during one of our workshops. Might try it myself depending on complexity.
On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 2:08 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
David Heiserman, Build your own Work Robot [1978]
How to build a computer controlled robot by Tod Loofbourrow[1978]
Thanks Dan. Ordered both books just now. Grand total of $10.68 (shipping included)! They will be nice for the exhibit. Perhaps someone will want to follow the book instructions and actually build one of these during one of our workshops. Might try it myself depending on complexity.
I always wanted to rebuild them too I still have the robot motors I used on the KIM-1 robot by Tod Loofbourrow Dan
On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Dan Roganti <ragooman@gmail.com> wrote:
Back in the 1970s, robot projects were already getting popular And microcomputer revolution is what paved the wave. I build several of these popular projects while in school in the 70s But only kept the books, alas, those robots met their timely demise in the scrap bin[parts donated to another project]
Beginning with a robot using a discrete TTL computer brain from a popular author, David Heiserman, Build your own Work Robot [1978]
http://www.amazon.com/How-build-computer-controlled-robot-Loofbourrow/dp/081... And then there was this robot project with a built-in KIM-1 How to build a computer controlled robot by Tod Loofbourrow[1978]
http://www.amazon.com/How-build-computer-controlled-robot-Loofbourrow/dp/081... And this continued on in the 80s while taking some robotics courses Along some of the popular robot kits, we even made our own robot projects. Simply because it was cheaper buying your own parts I made one using the traditional R2D2'esc chassis, with an internal 22/44 pin card cage for the various interfaces. And one included a brain using only a Timex Sinclair 1000, and another included a brain using only a RS MC-10 Because the were much smaller than a KIM-1 Dan
oh hey, Heiserman wrote several many books back then, it just came to me, there's another robot project book. This one ran on the 8085, How to Build Your Own Self-programming Robot [1979] http://www.amazon.com/How-Build-Your-Self-programming-Robot/dp/0830697608/re... Glad you bought the other books, good references in there. I didn't see my goof on the other links, sorry about that, good thing I typed in the title. Throughout the 80s, there were even more robot project books I relied on, if I can try to recall them, I'll send them Dan
If someone at Hope is disappointed that a cigar-box robot on wheels "just" follows a white line and can avoid obstacles; explain that microprocessors were new technology, not cheap, and these devices taught the people who made the smarter/cheaper/faster stuff a decade or two later. "People don't mock babies for being toddlers", if you want a quicker reply.
That's a good point. Thanks for the suggestion.
But if Hope is not a venue for such things and such lectures, that's your decision, show the Hero, it's pretty impressive for the era.
Both!
And certainly the HERO and Minimover and items are fine. But I object to your notion linking 1970's micros & "robots connected to computers.. for computation". I'm lecturing deliberately, so you have something to say to Hope attendees who would mock what seems like an Arduino on wheels.
What about a plastic microcomputer and a logo crawler? - Ethan
On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 2:01 PM, Ethan via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
And certainly the HERO and Minimover and items are fine. But I object to
your notion linking 1970's micros & "robots connected to computers.. for computation". I'm lecturing deliberately, so you have something to say to Hope attendees who would mock what seems like an Arduino on wheels.
What about a plastic microcomputer and a logo crawler?
- Ethan
the Logo Turtle was a big hit in school from the 70s http://cyberneticzoo.com/cyberneticanimals/1969-the-logo-turtle-seymour-pape...
the Logo Turtle was a big hit in school from the 70s http://cyberneticzoo.com/cyberneticanimals/1969-the-logo-turtle-seymour-pape...
Can't believe I forgot about that! Read about it many times. My first computer exposure was turtle * graphics * on a VIC-20, but I've definitely read about the earlier versions. Wonder if we can make something like that.... Update -- we'll have the Commodore kit, and Ben G. is loaning us his Lego LOGO kit. Hopefully more to come...
Can't believe I forgot about that! Read about it many times. My first computer exposure was turtle * graphics * on a VIC-20, but I've definitely read about the earlier versions. Wonder if we can make something like that....
PS. I'm not seriously suggesting that we try. As noted on the site Dan linked, it's controlled "via a radio transceiver attached to a teletype terminal connected to a remote computer." Sounds just slightly complicated to build between now and HOPE. :)
On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 2:17 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Can't believe I forgot about that! Read about it many times. My first
computer exposure was turtle * graphics * on a VIC-20, but I've definitely read about the earlier versions. Wonder if we can make something like that....
PS. I'm not seriously suggesting that we try. As noted on the site Dan linked, it's controlled "via a radio transceiver attached to a teletype terminal connected to a remote computer." Sounds just slightly complicated to build between now and HOPE. :)
yeaaa, it's not a tech issue, it's not enough pop, caffeine, food and lost work days :) But always possible for a museum exhibit btw, those motors for the KIM-1 robot are heavy and unobtanium It's a geared motor including the wheel and mounting shaft, they were originally used in some old electric cart. Have to dig them out of the storage box, but if you guy are serious, I'll help you organize the parts list and I'll donate the motors to build one for the museum Dan
On 4/26/2016 2:44 PM, Dan Roganti via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 2:17 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Can't believe I forgot about that! Read about it many times. My first
computer exposure was turtle * graphics * on a VIC-20, but I've definitely read about the earlier versions. Wonder if we can make something like that....
PS. I'm not seriously suggesting that we try. As noted on the site Dan linked, it's controlled "via a radio transceiver attached to a teletype terminal connected to a remote computer." Sounds just slightly complicated to build between now and HOPE. :)
yeaaa, it's not a tech issue, it's not enough pop, caffeine, food and lost work days :) But always possible for a museum exhibit
btw, those motors for the KIM-1 robot are heavy and unobtanium It's a geared motor including the wheel and mounting shaft, they were originally used in some old electric cart. Have to dig them out of the storage box, but if you guy are serious, I'll help you organize the parts list and I'll donate the motors to build one for the museum Dan
What about the bbc micro turtle bot with the plastic case and the 8051 mcu inside, which had a real pen and accepted serial commands etc? does anyone have one of those or were they a UK-only thing? -- Jonathan Gevaryahu jgevaryahu@gmail.com jgevaryahu@hotmail.com
On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 2:44 PM, Dan Roganti via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 2:17 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Can't believe I forgot about that! Read about it many times. My first
computer exposure was turtle * graphics * on a VIC-20, but I've definitely read about the earlier versions. Wonder if we can make something like that....
PS. I'm not seriously suggesting that we try. As noted on the site Dan linked, it's controlled "via a radio transceiver attached to a teletype terminal connected to a remote computer." Sounds just slightly complicated to build between now and HOPE. :)
yeaaa, it's not a tech issue, it's not enough pop, caffeine, food and lost work days :) But always possible for a museum exhibit
btw, those motors for the KIM-1 robot are heavy and unobtanium It's a geared motor including the wheel and mounting shaft, they were originally used in some old electric cart. Have to dig them out of the storage box, but if you guy are serious, I'll help you organize the parts list and I'll donate the motors to build one for the museum Dan
Dan, I just want to see those motors. Sounds very interesting!
On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 2:56 PM, Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Dan, I just want to see those motors. Sounds very interesting!
I'll have to find in which storage box those are hiding. I can take some pics then But here's some pics online of that robot project 1976 – “Mike” “Microtron” -Tod Loofbourrow http://cyberneticzoo.com/cyberneticanimals/1976-mike-microtron-tod-loofbourr... It was kind of awkward in it's structure, a very wide base when adding the covers. But powerful enough to carry me, but my weight was diff was almost 40yrs ago :) Dan
Oh man, robots! I've already polled the Hero robot owners group about what modern batteries a Hero 1 can use, both for VCFed's Hero 1 as well as the one I'm about to reassemble in the coming future. We will see what suggestions turn up, so we can get a working Hero 1 for y'all.
"People don't mock babies for being toddlers"But I do mock Hero Jr. for being a terrible navigator and bumping into walls, because it's funny. Side note: Hero Jr. lives! The problem he experienced seems to be localized to his RS232 system, and the associated power regulation. All he needed was a fresh battery, a new fuse, and the rest of him checked out in diagnostic mode. Robert Doerr just gave me a few suggestions of areas to check that most likely would have the fault. I will have to see how the repairs progress...
If someone brought a TOPO from Nolan Bushnell's ANDROBOT company, or any of their robot products be it Androman, F.R.E.D. etc. that would be mighty impressive. Getting your hands on one seems to be either a matter of luck or deep pockets. Another random side note: there was a gentleman at VCFMW10 who brought along a homemade replica of Dr. Who's K-9 that was controlled by a VIC-20 under the hood. Here's the link I had to his stuff, http://snarpco.com/k9 if someone is curious. Little one-off robots like these seem to be a common approach for fledgling robot enthusiasts. -Alexander 'Z' Pierson On Tuesday, April 26, 2016 2:17 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Can't believe I forgot about that! Read about it many times. My first computer exposure was turtle * graphics * on a VIC-20, but I've definitely read about the earlier versions. Wonder if we can make something like that....
PS. I'm not seriously suggesting that we try. As noted on the site Dan linked, it's controlled "via a radio transceiver attached to a teletype terminal connected to a remote computer." Sounds just slightly complicated to build between now and HOPE. :)
I've already polled the Hero robot owners group about what modern batteries a Hero 1 can use
My inclination is to remove the HERO battery, open it up (nearly Dremeling is necessary), and have it rebuilt by Batteries Plus using comparable NiCads with modern amperage. That's what I did for an IBM Simon phone last year and it worked fantastically well. Rebuilt the two halves of the pack with epoxy and then sanded it flat. Alex, let's talk (off-list) about when you can make another trip up here.
I've already polled the Hero robot owners group about what modern batteries a Hero 1 can use
My inclination is to remove the HERO battery, open it up (nearly Dremeling is necessary), and have it rebuilt by Batteries Plus using comparable NiCads with modern amperage. That's what I did for an IBM Simon phone last year and it worked fantastically well. Rebuilt the two halves of the pack with epoxy and then sanded it flat.
This may be a naive answer as it comes only from my own personal experience, but I have HERO 1's here using 4 6v UB5-6F Lead Acid cells. (Mine are older, but they appear to still available. http://www.amazon.com/Universal-UB56F-Sealed-Lead-Battery/dp/B00NR5NYOY) I definitely complement you on the VERY nice job on the Simon pack. But I would recommend against trying to cut into a sealed lead acid cell. Think taking a sawzall to a car battery. :-) -Corey L. Curator, cpmuseum
I definitely complement you on the VERY nice job on the Simon pack. But I would recommend against trying to cut into a sealed lead acid cell. Think taking a sawzall to a car battery.
Thanks, and thanks for the tip! I assumed they were NiCads. Guess not. :)
Hero robots tend to use sealed lead-acid cells, rather than NiCads. I even used to have the original batteries from my Jr which were long dead, but still sealed up nicely. These days I use larger 12V 7Ah cells for my Hero Jr. which work very well for the task but certainly would not fit in a Hero 1 chassis. However, traditionally a Jr. should use the same battery type as the Hero 1 which looks just like Corey's suggestion. Those 6V 5Ah sealed lead-acid cells look like the correct size. Two in the head on either side of the sonar system, two between the wheels? And what kind of operation time have you been able to get from your Hero 1 as a result? I think we might have a winner. -Alexander 'Z' Pierson On Tuesday, April 26, 2016 6:14 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
I definitely complement you on the VERY nice job on the Simon pack. But I would recommend against trying to cut into a sealed lead acid cell. Think taking a sawzall to a car battery.
Thanks, and thanks for the tip! I assumed they were NiCads. Guess not. :)
http://www.retrotechnology.com/memship/mem_basys.html The Web page today, includes photos of ITSABOT, which was exhibited at the West Coast Computerfaire in 1982, as a demo of the COSMAC 1802 single-board computer called BASYS of a few years prior. I read the discussion about building some kind of smarts, into one kind or another of commercial toy robot. I note by contrast, the other part of the discussion, which shows what many people of the 1970's-80's era actually published in the hobby electronic magazines. They used single-board computers to operate various scrounged motors, read simple switch-closure sensors, reflective sensors, light sensors, etc.; to operate simple wheeled robot platforms. That's activity which is replicated today with Arduinos and RaspPi's, for much the same reasons. There's also all kinds of brand-name technologies to make mechanical-robotic devices, which include these same parts at much higher prices, with nice-colored connector schemes, and ready-to-go operating systems, and Internet connectivity. and of course, there's various high-school robotics competitions which use stock/industrial control and development systems, packaged for that purpose (as in the FIRST competitions). So that part of hobby robotics is old ground, seems to me. My point being - little of that was available or affordable in 1980, when a new car sold below $5000, a college education was a few thousand a year, and engineers starting salaries were $30K (twice the average US salary). and of course, microprocessors were still new to many engineers and techs. What looks "homebrew" in the 21st century, was normal practice in 1980 and earlier, part of the process of promoting and learning about microprocessors. So it would be entirely period-reasonable, to take today a KIM or a VIP or any other 1980 single-board computer, pull steppers from a dead printer (I have many), sensors as noted, and write some assembly language or FORTH to move them around. I don't think someone will step up to do this from scratch in 90 days; but it's possible someone has something of this order that almost works, or used to work, and might loan it to VCFed for restoration. Question is: will the HOPE attendees look at a box on wheels and say "oh, that's an Arduino, it's a toy-bot, so what?" It's entirely reasonable for Evan to conclude such an exhibit would not be as productive a display as, say, a more visually impressive HERO, clearly a commercialized hobby / educational product of the period. Those seem to be the choices in discussion, those are my inputs. Herb -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preservation of 1970's computing email: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com alternate: herbjohnson ATT retrotechnology DOTT info
Question is: will the HOPE attendees look at a box on wheels and say "oh, that's an Arduino, it's a toy-bot, so what?" It's entirely reasonable for Evan to conclude such an exhibit would not be as productive a display as, say, a more visually impressive HERO, clearly a commercialized hobby / educational product of the period.
All kinds and types at HOPE. On the hacker con scale HOPE is generally more political than raw tech/exploits/theory of the other events. The political side becomes more important every day, of course. DIY Bio hacking is becoming bigger, I see it like the homebrew computer club. In those days computers were locked away in big rooms by people with lab coats, the personal computer revolution hit. I guess we are in the same state with biology at this point (not a recreational drug enthusiast here, no idea where all the diy bio will end up.) I haven't seen the talk schedule but a friend from Norfolk was accepted to talk about DIY bio stuff. Guess I need to buy my hope tickets and figure out lodging heh. There are likely to be people who know exactly what the Hero robots are, and ones that don't. As long as people don't go out and buy them and stick RPi's in them, all is good :-) The more info you can put up that is quick read about the things, the better!
On 4/27/2016
herb wrote:
Question is: will the HOPE attendees look at a box on wheels and say "oh, that's an Arduino, it's a toy-bot, so what?" It's entirely reasonable for Evan to conclude such an exhibit would not be as productive a display as, say, a more visually impressive HERO, clearly a commercialized hobby / educational product of the period.
11:41 AM, Ethan wrote:
All kinds and types at HOPE. On the hacker con scale HOPE is generally more political than raw tech/exploits/theory of the other events....
There are likely to be people who know exactly what the Hero robots are, and ones that don't. As long as people don't go out and buy them and stick RPi's in them, all is good :-) The more info you can put up that is quick read about the things, the better!
Thanks for the encouragements, Ethan. I did update that Web page with photos of the little ITSABOX, thanks to Lee Hart today. herb wrote:
but it's possible someone has something of this order that almost works, or used to work, and might loan it to VCFed for restoration.
Evan wrote:
I agree that would be reasonable. We have a working KIM. Herb, can you be the someone to step up and make a simple demo based on it? it would be our big chance to educate them. :)
Nope, KIM is not my (primary) technology. Other list members seem to say they have similar cards, someone more familiar with their KIM can make *theirs* do such things, then borrow the VCF's KIM to make it work on that one. I'm glad, Evan, you find the idea plausible. Things like stepper motor drivers aren't hard, just use power transistors of the period. Switch closures aren't hard. LIght sensors aren't hard. What's tricky is knowing what to do with these, how to mechanically set them up. I won't work on that cold in 90 days. As I said - someone who *already did that*, who could revive their work, is a better candidate. I'll poke at my 1802 boards in due course, but I can't promise to deliver in 90 days for a regional event. I just did one! I'm sorry if it's confusing, that I'm an advocate for other people's work. I'm trying to preserve a legacy that is not just my own, or my own immediate interests. That includes cheerleading; I don't have to run the ball. Herb -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preservation of 1970's computing email: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com alternate: herbjohnson ATT retrotechnology DOTT info
So it would be entirely period-reasonable.... I don't think someone will step up to do this from scratch in 90 days; but it's possible someone has something of this order that almost works, or used to work, and might loan it to VCFed for restoration.
I agree that would be reasonable. We have a working KIM. Herb, can you be the someone to step up and make a simple demo based on it?
Question is: will the HOPE attendees look at a box on wheels and say "oh, that's an Arduino, it's a toy-bot, so what?"
That would be our big chance to educate them. :)
On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 11:54 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
So it would be entirely period-reasonable.... I don't think someone will step up to do this from scratch in 90 days; but it's possible someone has something of this order that almost works, or used to work, and might loan it to VCFed for restoration.
I agree that would be reasonable. We have a working KIM. Herb, can you be the someone to step up and make a simple demo based on it?
Question is: will the HOPE attendees look at a box on wheels and say "oh, that's an Arduino, it's a toy-bot, so what?"
That would be our big chance to educate them. :) ---------> If they actually ask the question. Most of the time in that situation people silently keep walking.
participants (10)
-
Alexander Pierson -
Chris Fala -
Corey Little -
Dan Roganti -
Ethan -
Evan Koblentz -
Herb Johnson -
Jonathan Gevaryahu -
Systems Glitch -
william degnan