A 4004 Based Microcomputer the Comstar System 4
On Fri, Jan 12, 2024 at 1:47 PM Jeffrey Jonas:
Herb touches upon how our expectations of "computers" have evolved. To folks outside the engineering profession, "embedded processors", "industrial controllers" and other special- purpose machines don't look-and-feel like that's now accepted as a "computer". Yet the Arduino has made such embedded processing more accessible than ever to the hobbyist, experimenter, artist, etc.
Perhaps that applies here: what were once called "computers" are now considered embedded processors, IoT (Internet of Things) or Internet appliances.
I was about to say how cellphones [or desktop computers] are more of an appliance than a computer by the way most folks just download apps.
[list of late 1970's microprocessors used for embedded controllers].
I'm not entirely happy that a thread that has drifted to Asimov's Laws of Robotics, has my name in it. I'll respond to the original points, on the original subject line. Those people interested in robotics, maybe can start a new thread subject? Those interested in Christian's Comstar might reply to his thread. I did not mean to hijack Christian's thread, just to embellish it, underscore his challenges in finding information and referencing the Compstar as various kinds of computer. Jeff acknowledges my point and adds modern context, other devices. Yeah, there's a long history about logical mechanisms as some kind of computing or analytical thing or even a kind-of person. If I'm not mistaken, Christian has/had in hand physically, at least the "compiler" Comstar product, maybe also the "controller" product? Not quite clear what he owns. I hope he puts it up on some kind of Web page or other editable Web-accessable thingy, that has stability and can be edited and refined. Too hard to do that in threaded discussions (this a case in point). It's not all nuts and bolts, the chips and a few words don't define the objects. I find this research, or curation, as much fun as restoration and repair. For those who have lost interest in those considerations and simply think "it's a computer, move on!"? Well, these things matter to some of us (oldies) who have seen a lot of change in the computing we have experienced. Those who look back decades and before their time, might get a richer experience by becoming aware of the expectations then, versus expectations at other times. As Christian describes, there's still discoveries to be made in vintage computing. Regards Herb Johnson Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA https://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT comcast DOT net
Here is a picture of the unit. I pulled it out of storage and I didn't have a day to really work on it. But it should give you an idea of what it is and how it was assembled. https://photos.app.goo.gl/YpDBYpxU56vC9dbq7 On Sat, Jan 13, 2024 at 2:01 PM Herbert Johnson via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, Christian has/had in hand physically, at least the "compiler" Comstar product, maybe also the "controller" product? Not quite clear what he owns. I hope he puts it up on some kind of Web page or other editable Web-accessable thingy, that has stability and can be edited and refined. Too hard to do that in threaded discussions (this a case in point).
Christian Just my opinion, but this looks like exactly what it says it is, a microprocessor-driven ePROM reader writer that allows a person to perform some specialized functions related to altering the contents of an ePROM, such as re-locating to a different memory space or similar edits before writing a copy. This is a peripheral device. I would not call this a computer, as in "general purpose stand-alone computer for convenient human i/o, programming". I have a similar 4040 (4004) programmer. The microprocessor takes the place of a lot of microcode ROMs, thus cheaper than a similar unit without a microprocessor. Maybe this is what everyone else has been already saying I have not read every post in this thread. Bill On Tue, Jan 16, 2024 at 1:11 PM Christian Liendo via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Here is a picture of the unit. I pulled it out of storage and I didn't have a day to really work on it. But it should give you an idea of what it is and how it was assembled.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/YpDBYpxU56vC9dbq7
On Sat, Jan 13, 2024 at 2:01 PM Herbert Johnson via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, Christian has/had in hand physically, at least the "compiler" Comstar product, maybe also the "controller" product? Not quite clear what he owns. I hope he puts it up on some kind of Web page or other editable Web-accessable thingy, that has stability and can be edited and refined. Too hard to do that in threaded discussions (this a case in point).
oh, and it IS historic and who cares whether it's a computer in the modern sense. microprocessors were at first used to perform embedded jobs not replace the PDP8. More like automobile controllers, cash registers, traffic lights, stuff like that. They were computers in that sense. I am sure the user of such a device in the mid 70s just used it for what it was and did not give a thought about it. Bill On Tue, Jan 16, 2024 at 2:48 PM Bill Degnan <billdegnan@gmail.com> wrote:
Christian Just my opinion, but this looks like exactly what it says it is, a microprocessor-driven ePROM reader writer that allows a person to perform some specialized functions related to altering the contents of an ePROM, such as re-locating to a different memory space or similar edits before writing a copy. This is a peripheral device. I would not call this a computer, as in "general purpose stand-alone computer for convenient human i/o, programming". I have a similar 4040 (4004) programmer. The microprocessor takes the place of a lot of microcode ROMs, thus cheaper than a similar unit without a microprocessor.
Maybe this is what everyone else has been already saying I have not read every post in this thread. Bill
On Tue, Jan 16, 2024 at 1:11 PM Christian Liendo via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Here is a picture of the unit. I pulled it out of storage and I didn't have a day to really work on it. But it should give you an idea of what it is and how it was assembled.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/YpDBYpxU56vC9dbq7
On Sat, Jan 13, 2024 at 2:01 PM Herbert Johnson via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, Christian has/had in hand physically, at least the "compiler" Comstar product, maybe also the "controller" product? Not quite clear what he owns. I hope he puts it up on some kind of Web page or other editable Web-accessable thingy, that has stability and can be edited and refined. Too hard to do that in threaded discussions (this a case in point).
This is very impressive. A nice 1970's build of industrial equipment, looks like a 1974 build from the chip dates. There will be good work to do, in reading off the ROMs and working out how it did what it did. restoration to operation is a doable challenge, depending. And apparently there may be loose ROMS, they might provide clues about how the compiler worked. "Compiler" being the action of programming those ROMS for use in the companion controller (another 4004 unit). "read the fine documentation" that Christian pointed to for details. Christian, thanks for letting people know you have this, and for preserving it. In time, if Web-references get around, people who knew this may contact you, give you more information, have other units. That's why I have a Web site, among other reasons. Hope you find a venue for further technical discussion of this and work done with it. Regards Herb Johnson On 1/16/2024 1:10 PM, Christian Liendo wrote:
Here is a picture of the unit. I pulled it out of storage and I didn't have a day to really work on it. But it should give you an idea of what it is and how it was assembled. -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA https://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT comcast DOT net
participants (3)
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Bill Degnan -
Christian Liendo -
Herbert Johnson