Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Advice on Xenix VCF exhibit
On some of the Apple II lists that I am on, it appears that the majority of the list members are more interested in the software (really games) than anything else. Also, some nearby people I have been acquainted with from that group, have mentioned in the past that they think VCF is for mini-computer people, not Apple Ii/micro computer type people, hence they would rather travel all the way to Kansas City, rather than relatively close by, New Jersey. Just something to think about. This hobby is way too small for us to be filtering out potential participants. We are better off taking advantage of the excitement surrounding vintage games, which is what interests many people, rather than downplaying it. We might think about leveraging that gaming interest so that more casual visitors might become active hobbyists. It shouldn't be considered a competition, there will always be room for people that are more interested in the technology and history side of the hobby. I remember back in the 70's when I was an avid historical wargamer. Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson came up with something called Dungeons and Dragons during that period. It brought in a very large new group of people and changed the hobby significantly. Up til then, it was a hobby, run by hobbyists, very few people making a full time living off the hobby. The advent of D&D made it possible for many more clever people to make a good living, which made for a lot more possibilities in the hobby for both business and participants. However, what it did not do, was prevent the old school historical wargamer from enjoying their historical games. I'm not sure exactly what I'm suggesting here, other then don't discourage people by keeping the focus too narrow. I understand that this event isn't and shouldn't become a vintage game convention, but we still need to grow the hobby, and right now we shouldn't discourage anyone from having a little fun with vintage computers, no matter how they find it. Mike Willegal
Also, some nearby people I have been acquainted with from that group, have mentioned in the past that they think VCF is for mini-computer people, not Apple II/micro computer type people
That's funny, here we are lamenting the opposite concern. VCFederation/Festival/Forum is for beloved historic computers of ALL kinds.
Forgive my long windedness. I'm sure you guys are used to it by now!!
On some of the Apple II lists that I am on, it appears that the majority of the list members are more interested in the software (really games) than anything else.
Unquestionably.
Also, some nearby people I have been acquainted with from that group, have mentioned in the past that they think VCF is for mini-computer people, not Apple Ii/micro computer type people, hence they would rather travel all the way to Kansas City, rather than relatively close by, New Jersey. Just something to think about.
My experience (with some of the same groups in addition to personal acquaintances) has been a similar one. The past several VCF's I've been able to bring a dozen or so of those acquaintances in and change their minds, with the help of awesome exhibits from everyone at VCF!! However, it is certainly an uphill battle to convince people from the vintage computer scene that it truly has a bit of something for everyone, not to mention some awesome stuff that they (like I) did not even know they'd be interested in! The single biggest comment has been the lack of information/knowledge of the event, the group and particularly the lack of promotion. (Not just in quantity, but in the amount and type of info provided) as to the reason for their preconceptions of VCF and their beliefs it "wasn't for me." I'm not blaming anyone or trying to accuse anyone of anything, it simply is what I've read online and been told in person and thru private conversations online. Obviously those that think VCF is only for "big iron" people couldn't be more wrong if they tried!!
This hobby is way too small for us to be filtering out potential participants. We are better off taking advantage of the excitement surrounding vintage games, which is what interests many people, rather than downplaying it. We might think about leveraging that gaming interest so that more casual visitors might become active hobbyists. It shouldn't be considered a competition, there will always be room for people that are more interested in the technology and history side of the hobby.
I couldn't agree more. My experience is limited to the past three + years. One attending and the next two exhibiting at VCF, so please take my comments in that "newbie" context. One thing I noticed, and someone else already mentioned it or something similar, is that the gaming side, of micros in particular but computers in general, is definitely an eye grabbing/fond memory inducing machine! I've told people this before but it bears repeating. My favorite part of my last two exhibits was watching peoples faces light up when they first saw the computer they "used back in the day" be it work, home, school, wherever, but also the way they would ask if I had x, y or z game, half expecting the answer to be no. But when I said yes, their eyes lit up! The two guys challenging each other to a duel at Oregon trail. The father showing his son lode runner and talking about the time he used to spend playing it. The kids (son and friend) asking mom if this was the game she always talked about (it was ultima) One thing I plan on doing in the future is devoting a couple machines to the telecommunications, word processing (thought an apple writer to Microsoft word comparison would be cool) finance software. Had several people look at my machines and say "man I remember having to type on that all day" or similar comments, so there's definitely room for all types to be interested.
I remember back in the 70's when I was an avid historical wargamer. Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson came up with something called Dungeons and Dragons during that period.
Don't get me started on D&D!!! Still have my stuff on the shelf right next to where I'm typing this!! :-)
I'm not sure exactly what I'm suggesting here, other then don't discourage people by keeping the focus too narrow. I understand that this event isn't and shouldn't become a vintage game convention, but we still need to grow the hobby, and right now we shouldn't discourage anyone from having a little fun with vintage computers, no matter how they find it. Mike Willegal
Well said. Couldn't agree more! I don't know that I have a point, or that I made it, but suffice to say many people think the "working" aspect of machines is overrated and not interesting to any but the "old dusty guys" from the past but also games and the gaming aspect of computers is looked down upon by many of those same "old dusty guys" along with micros in general. We need to change that mindset as best we can so others can learn just how much fun all these things are. Like I have learned over the past few years. Everything isn't for everyone, but if someone has even a passing interest in any given group or type of computer, they are likely to find other aspects of vintage computing interesting, even ones they never thought they would! Tony
On 1/11/2017 7:47 PM, Tony Bogan via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Forgive my long windedness. I'm sure you guys are used to it by now!!
On some of the Apple II lists that I am on, it appears that the majority of the list members are more interested in the software (really games) than anything else. Unquestionably.
I guess I'm kind of in a unique position to comment on this problem, since I have a over 100 teenagers who come in to my room full of vintage computers each day. Two things get them interested. 1. Games. 2. Being able to program them. Application software is just.. well.. dull. Unless you need it to solve a problem, which they don't. And, of course, I leave out being able to control outside things (i.e. robotics and the like) because I just don't have the space to safely do that. That's always a crowd-pleaser. I also am from the generation that remembers getting to play Choplifter, or Oregon Trail, or California Games when you were done with your work in "computer" class. Classical conditioning at its best. So I don't blame my particular generation for being more nostalgic about the games than Apple LOGO on a IIe and typing class with AppleWorks on a IIc (neither of which I was fond of even back in the day!). So my machines currently run Apple IIe: Oregon Trail, Apple IIc: Choplifter, Apple IIgs: variety of games but Arkanoid II currently. With that said, when they get to my more advanced classes, they learn 6502 assembly. And most figure out enough Apple BASIC to play with the Apple II+ that sits around with the ] prompt. Then the really cool stuff happens. So it doesn't dishearten me when people want first and foremost to play games. What else would they want to do? Especially if they aren't programmers? I know the first thing my old self would do if I had terminal access to an IBM/370 mainframe like I (sort of - long story) did as a child would be to play Adventure again in style! On the other hand, to bring this back to the original subject matter, as a card carrying UNIX nerd, I absolutely love playing with any kind of weird UNIX on any kind of weird hardware, games be damned! Best wishes, -Adam
participants (4)
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Adam Michlin -
Evan Koblentz -
Mike Willegal -
Tony Bogan