Advice on Xenix VCF exhibit
VCFers, I'm working on planning my exhibit for this year. To keep things not identical to last year I was thinking of showing Xenix on my Lisa. However I'm worried the exhibit won't be interesting enough to the general public (Oh look, it runs. Oh look, it's Unix. Oh look, there's a clunky menu interface you can bring up.) Of course games are always interesting... however as far as I know none were made. The system does have a Pascal compiler, so perhaps that's an option to get something new into the system? Failing that, perhaps showing off Michael Brutman's MTCP suite would be better? I'm open to suggestions. Thanks! -- Jason Perkins
On Tue, 10 Jan 2017, Jason Perkins via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
I'm working on planning my exhibit for this year. To keep things not identical to last year I was thinking of showing Xenix on my Lisa. However I'm worried the exhibit won't be interesting enough to the general public (Oh look, it runs. Oh look, it's Unix. Oh look, there's a clunky menu interface you can bring up.)
Of course games are always interesting... however as far as I know none were made. The system does have a Pascal compiler, so perhaps that's an option to get something new into the system?
Failing that, perhaps showing off Michael Brutman's MTCP suite would be better?
I'm open to suggestions.
It's sad, but what I've noticed over the years at VCF is that the general public is more interested in games than anything else. Even when I brought the HP minicomputer setup, they wanted to know what kind of games ran on it. Can you connect a couple of terminals to it? Dig up the source for Rogue or Hack and let 'em play. Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
It's sad, but what I've noticed over the years at VCF is that the general public is more interested in games than anything else. Even when I brought the HP minicomputer setup, they wanted to know what kind of games ran on it.
I think we (collectively) are somewhat responsible for this: if we show more * programs * and fewer games in our exhibits, then people might understand. Painful as it is, it might help to talk to families/kids at the show in terms of "apps".
On 01/10/2017 10:58 PM, Mike Loewen via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
It's sad, but what I've noticed over the years at VCF is that the general public is more interested in games than anything else. Even when I brought the HP minicomputer setup, they wanted to know what kind of games ran on it.
Sigh. And we wonder why China is eating our lunch. We're all a bunch of anesthetized children anymore.
Can you connect a couple of terminals to it? Dig up the source for Rogue or Hack and let 'em play.
This only reinforces the idea that computers are only toys for children. If someone is looking for games, they can go find them. There will be people there who are looking for more mature material. The event will continue to lose credibility in their eyes if they see even very serious computers reduced to toys. Please don't reinforce it. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On 01/11/2017 11:08 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
The event will continue to lose credibility in their eyes
"Continue" to lose credibility? Who says we ever were in the first place?
I caught that as I sent the email; I didn't mean it like that. Many have observed that the game people are taking more and more interest in VCF and the technical people are vastly outnumbered. I did not mean that in a derogatory way; it was a poor choice of words. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
The event will continue to lose credibility in their eyes
"Continue" to lose credibility? Who says we ever were in the first place?
I caught that as I sent the email; I didn't mean it like that. Many have observed that the game people are taking more and more interest in VCF and the technical people are vastly outnumbered. I did not mean that in a derogatory way; it was a poor choice of words.
Okey dokey.
Dave, I agree with you. However, what can be done to make serious software eye-catching? I personally am thrilled to look at spreadsheets all day (well, maybe not thrilled), but I think that kind of thing would not grab the attention of the average person. I think we have had similar discussions here: how do we present our hobby in such a way to draw people in and help them appreciate it the way that we do? On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 11:00 AM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On 01/10/2017 10:58 PM, Mike Loewen via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
It's sad, but what I've noticed over the years at VCF is that the general public is more interested in games than anything else. Even when I brought the HP minicomputer setup, they wanted to know what kind of games ran on it.
Sigh. And we wonder why China is eating our lunch. We're all a bunch of anesthetized children anymore.
Can you connect a couple of terminals to it? Dig up the source for Rogue or Hack and let 'em play.
This only reinforces the idea that computers are only toys for children. If someone is looking for games, they can go find them. There will be people there who are looking for more mature material. The event will continue to lose credibility in their eyes if they see even very serious computers reduced to toys. Please don't reinforce it.
-Dave
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
"how do we present our hobby in such a way to draw people in and help them appreciate it the way that we do?" That's exactly why I posed this question. A display needs to be interactive and eye catching to be successful, otherwise we may as well do what the Smithsonian does and have unpowered machines behind plexiglass. That's not to say we need to hide the "power applications" for the machines, we just need to show something that would interest everyone. -J On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Dave, I agree with you. However, what can be done to make serious software eye-catching? I personally am thrilled to look at spreadsheets all day (well, maybe not thrilled), but I think that kind of thing would not grab the attention of the average person. I think we have had similar discussions here: how do we present our hobby in such a way to draw people in and help them appreciate it the way that we do?
On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 11:00 AM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On 01/10/2017 10:58 PM, Mike Loewen via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
It's sad, but what I've noticed over the years at VCF is that the general public is more interested in games than anything else. Even when I brought the HP minicomputer setup, they wanted to know what kind of games ran on it.
Sigh. And we wonder why China is eating our lunch. We're all a bunch of anesthetized children anymore.
Can you connect a couple of terminals to it? Dig up the source for Rogue or Hack and let 'em play.
This only reinforces the idea that computers are only toys for children. If someone is looking for games, they can go find them. There will be people there who are looking for more mature material. The event will continue to lose credibility in their eyes if they see even very serious computers reduced to toys. Please don't reinforce it.
-Dave
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
-- Jason Perkins 313 355 0085
Some look for mind catching without the need for eye catching. That's what I think Dave is saying. Evan and I have been talking a lot about this lately off-line. Many people find "serious" computing very boring, Some a room full of computers running games to be boring. VCF is a public event with a proportional mix of these groups. We need to accommodate both and make sure we don't favor one group over the other. I am sure Evan is taking all of this into account when he approves and kindly adjusts exhibits to find that balance. b On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 12:06 PM, Jason Perkins via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
"how do we present our hobby in such a way to draw people in and help them appreciate it the way that we do?"
That's exactly why I posed this question. A display needs to be interactive and eye catching to be successful, otherwise we may as well do what the Smithsonian does and have unpowered machines behind plexiglass. That's not to say we need to hide the "power applications" for the machines, we just need to show something that would interest everyone.
-J
On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Dave, I agree with you. However, what can be done to make serious software eye-catching? I personally am thrilled to look at spreadsheets all day (well, maybe not thrilled), but I think that kind of thing would not grab the attention of the average person. I think we have had similar discussions here: how do we present our hobby in such a way to draw people in and help them appreciate it the way that we do?
On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 11:00 AM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On 01/10/2017 10:58 PM, Mike Loewen via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
It's sad, but what I've noticed over the years at VCF is that the general public is more interested in games than anything else. Even when I brought the HP minicomputer setup, they wanted to know what kind of games ran on it.
Sigh. And we wonder why China is eating our lunch. We're all a bunch of anesthetized children anymore.
Can you connect a couple of terminals to it? Dig up the source for Rogue or Hack and let 'em play.
This only reinforces the idea that computers are only toys for children. If someone is looking for games, they can go find them. There will be people there who are looking for more mature material. The event will continue to lose credibility in their eyes if they see even very serious computers reduced to toys. Please don't reinforce it.
-Dave
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
-- Jason Perkins 313 355 0085
"Some look for mind catching without the need for eye catching. That's what I think Dave is saying," That's a much better way to put it! On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 12:22 PM, william degnan via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Some look for mind catching without the need for eye catching. That's what I think Dave is saying. Evan and I have been talking a lot about this lately off-line. Many people find "serious" computing very boring, Some a room full of computers running games to be boring. VCF is a public event with a proportional mix of these groups. We need to accommodate both and make sure we don't favor one group over the other. I am sure Evan is taking all of this into account when he approves and kindly adjusts exhibits to find that balance. b
On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 12:06 PM, Jason Perkins via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
"how do we present our hobby in such a way to draw people in and help them appreciate it the way that we do?"
That's exactly why I posed this question. A display needs to be interactive and eye catching to be successful, otherwise we may as well do what the Smithsonian does and have unpowered machines behind plexiglass. That's not to say we need to hide the "power applications" for the machines, we just need to show something that would interest everyone.
-J
On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Dave, I agree with you. However, what can be done to make serious software eye-catching? I personally am thrilled to look at spreadsheets all day (well, maybe not thrilled), but I think that kind of thing would not grab the attention of the average person. I think we have had similar discussions here: how do we present our hobby in such a way to draw people in and help them appreciate it the way that we do?
On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 11:00 AM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On 01/10/2017 10:58 PM, Mike Loewen via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
It's sad, but what I've noticed over the years at VCF is that the general public is more interested in games than anything else. Even when I brought the HP minicomputer setup, they wanted to know what kind of games ran on it.
Sigh. And we wonder why China is eating our lunch. We're all a bunch of anesthetized children anymore.
Can you connect a couple of terminals to it? Dig up the source for Rogue or Hack and let 'em play.
This only reinforces the idea that computers are only toys for children. If someone is looking for games, they can go find them. There will be people there who are looking for more mature material. The event will continue to lose credibility in their eyes if they see even very serious computers reduced to toys. Please don't reinforce it.
-Dave
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
-- Jason Perkins 313 355 0085
-- Jason Perkins 313 355 0085
Yes, thank you, this is EXACTLY it. Thanks for putting it so succinctly. -Dave On 01/11/2017 12:22 PM, william degnan via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Some look for mind catching without the need for eye catching. That's what I think Dave is saying. Evan and I have been talking a lot about this lately off-line. Many people find "serious" computing very boring, Some a room full of computers running games to be boring. VCF is a public event with a proportional mix of these groups. We need to accommodate both and make sure we don't favor one group over the other. I am sure Evan is taking all of this into account when he approves and kindly adjusts exhibits to find that balance. b
On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 12:06 PM, Jason Perkins via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
"how do we present our hobby in such a way to draw people in and help them appreciate it the way that we do?"
That's exactly why I posed this question. A display needs to be interactive and eye catching to be successful, otherwise we may as well do what the Smithsonian does and have unpowered machines behind plexiglass. That's not to say we need to hide the "power applications" for the machines, we just need to show something that would interest everyone.
-J
On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Dave, I agree with you. However, what can be done to make serious software eye-catching? I personally am thrilled to look at spreadsheets all day (well, maybe not thrilled), but I think that kind of thing would not grab the attention of the average person. I think we have had similar discussions here: how do we present our hobby in such a way to draw people in and help them appreciate it the way that we do?
On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 11:00 AM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On 01/10/2017 10:58 PM, Mike Loewen via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
It's sad, but what I've noticed over the years at VCF is that the general public is more interested in games than anything else. Even when I brought the HP minicomputer setup, they wanted to know what kind of games ran on it.
Sigh. And we wonder why China is eating our lunch. We're all a bunch of anesthetized children anymore.
Can you connect a couple of terminals to it? Dig up the source for Rogue or Hack and let 'em play.
This only reinforces the idea that computers are only toys for children. If someone is looking for games, they can go find them. There will be people there who are looking for more mature material. The event will continue to lose credibility in their eyes if they see even very serious computers reduced to toys. Please don't reinforce it.
-Dave
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
-- Jason Perkins 313 355 0085
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On 01/11/2017 12:06 PM, Jason Perkins via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
"how do we present our hobby in such a way to draw people in and help them appreciate it the way that we do?"
That's exactly why I posed this question. A display needs to be interactive and eye catching to be successful, otherwise we may as well do what the Smithsonian does and have unpowered machines behind plexiglass. That's not to say we need to hide the "power applications" for the machines, we just need to show something that would interest everyone.
That's just the problem. Catching the interest of "everyone" should not, in my opinion, be the goal. Not everyone will be, or even has the capacity to be interested in this stuff. Retroactively modifying what these machines were in order to bend them around to the modern expectations of every element of the modern perpetually-entertained public is misrepresentation, plain and simple. Sure, people occasionally played games on the company mainframe or the department's minicomputer. But the key here is the word "occasionally". It wasn't an all-games-all-the-time thing. These computers were built to get work done, and that's what the vast majority of their CPU cycles were spent doing. Show them for what they were meant to do, and more importantly, what they really did. Play an occasional game, but show a business chart of accounts or some sort of fluid flow simulation most of the time. Because that's what actually happened. If that means we don't appeal to EVERY random person off the street, then so be it. I submit that this is neither fatal nor even undesirable. Is the event (and by extension, the museum) there to preserve history and educate people about it, or try to induct every person we see into the hobby side of it? -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
Agreed with Dave. My thought is that, yes, the museum and event are there to preserve history and educate people , and hopefully to grab those who have an innate (or latent) interest in the subject. The trick is how best to do so. The primary facts that keep me engaged are what a system is capable of doing (it's reason for being), it's history, and how it works. If you can present these three things in an accessible manner, and possibly throw in some interactivity, you have a winning exhibit, regardless of the subject matter. On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 12:30 PM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On 01/11/2017 12:06 PM, Jason Perkins via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
"how do we present our hobby in such a way to draw people in and help them appreciate it the way that we do?"
That's exactly why I posed this question. A display needs to be interactive and eye catching to be successful, otherwise we may as well do what the Smithsonian does and have unpowered machines behind plexiglass. That's not to say we need to hide the "power applications" for the machines, we just need to show something that would interest everyone.
That's just the problem. Catching the interest of "everyone" should not, in my opinion, be the goal. Not everyone will be, or even has the capacity to be interested in this stuff. Retroactively modifying what these machines were in order to bend them around to the modern expectations of every element of the modern perpetually-entertained public is misrepresentation, plain and simple.
Sure, people occasionally played games on the company mainframe or the department's minicomputer. But the key here is the word "occasionally". It wasn't an all-games-all-the-time thing. These computers were built to get work done, and that's what the vast majority of their CPU cycles were spent doing.
Show them for what they were meant to do, and more importantly, what they really did. Play an occasional game, but show a business chart of accounts or some sort of fluid flow simulation most of the time. Because that's what actually happened.
If that means we don't appeal to EVERY random person off the street, then so be it. I submit that this is neither fatal nor even undesirable.
Is the event (and by extension, the museum) there to preserve history and educate people about it, or try to induct every person we see into the hobby side of it?
-Dave
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On 01/11/2017 02:57 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Is the event (and by extension, the museum) there to preserve history and educate people about it, or try to induct every person we see into the hobby side of it?
Yes. :)
Come over to the retro side ... we have cookies ! -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
The cookies are how we implant the chips. Chocolate chips. On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 3:06 PM Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On 01/11/2017 02:57 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Is the event (and by extension, the museum) there to preserve history and educate people about it, or try to induct every person we see into the hobby side of it?
Yes. :)
Come over to the retro side ... we have cookies !
-- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
On 01/11/2017 11:54 AM, Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Dave, I agree with you. However, what can be done to make serious software eye-catching? I personally am thrilled to look at spreadsheets all day (well, maybe not thrilled), but I think that kind of thing would not grab the attention of the average person. I think we have had similar discussions here: how do we present our hobby in such a way to draw people in and help them appreciate it the way that we do?
I think many people will be drawn in by their own curiosity about history. That's why people walk into museums. The Smithsonian doesn't have a guy outside trying to drag people in to play a game of "catch" with an animated dinosaur skeleton. I agree that a lot of "serious software" can be boring to some people. So they'll walk by and head over to the table of personal computers with games running. There were real working physicists at the last VCF at which I exhibited. Two of them spent some time with my PDP-11s. They probably walked right by the Commodore 64s. That's the great thing about VCF...there's something for everyone. I personally didn't care that most of the kids and spouses weren't interested in my PDP-11s...but I loved the fact that the physicists were. I think it's a very bad idea to reduce it to "something for the kids" when it's currently "something for everyone". -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
Very true. I agree that the variety at VCF ensures that we cover a broader interest. That being said, how do we get people to want to walk in the door in the first place? Personally, I don't think that Facebook and blogs are enough. Can we reach a larger audience? On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 12:38 PM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On 01/11/2017 11:54 AM, Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Dave, I agree with you. However, what can be done to make serious software eye-catching? I personally am thrilled to look at spreadsheets all day (well, maybe not thrilled), but I think that kind of thing would not grab the attention of the average person. I think we have had similar discussions here: how do we present our hobby in such a way to draw people in and help them appreciate it the way that we do?
I think many people will be drawn in by their own curiosity about history. That's why people walk into museums. The Smithsonian doesn't have a guy outside trying to drag people in to play a game of "catch" with an animated dinosaur skeleton.
I agree that a lot of "serious software" can be boring to some people. So they'll walk by and head over to the table of personal computers with games running. There were real working physicists at the last VCF at which I exhibited. Two of them spent some time with my PDP-11s. They probably walked right by the Commodore 64s. That's the great thing about VCF...there's something for everyone. I personally didn't care that most of the kids and spouses weren't interested in my PDP-11s...but I loved the fact that the physicists were.
I think it's a very bad idea to reduce it to "something for the kids" when it's currently "something for everyone".
-Dave
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
Competitive eating contest. On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 1:13 PM, Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Very true. I agree that the variety at VCF ensures that we cover a broader interest. That being said, how do we get people to want to walk in the door in the first place? Personally, I don't think that Facebook and blogs are enough. Can we reach a larger audience?
On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 12:38 PM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On 01/11/2017 11:54 AM, Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Dave, I agree with you. However, what can be done to make serious software eye-catching? I personally am thrilled to look at spreadsheets all day (well, maybe not thrilled), but I think that kind of thing would not grab the attention of the average person. I think we have had similar discussions here: how do we present our hobby in such a way to draw people in and help them appreciate it the way that we do?
I think many people will be drawn in by their own curiosity about history. That's why people walk into museums. The Smithsonian doesn't have a guy outside trying to drag people in to play a game of "catch" with an animated dinosaur skeleton.
I agree that a lot of "serious software" can be boring to some people. So they'll walk by and head over to the table of personal computers with games running. There were real working physicists at the last VCF at which I exhibited. Two of them spent some time with my PDP-11s. They probably walked right by the Commodore 64s. That's the great thing about VCF...there's something for everyone. I personally didn't care that most of the kids and spouses weren't interested in my PDP-11s...but I loved the fact that the physicists were.
I think it's a very bad idea to reduce it to "something for the kids" when it's currently "something for everyone".
-Dave
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
True, our existing social media footprint only gets us so far. Maybe expand into other areas, e.g. post videos of works in progress at the museum on YouTube? A teaser video for VCFe showing footage from past festivals? We get Evan in hair and makeup for the camera and I think we have a good thing going. Short of that, maybe we can repurpose the TIROS dish to fire a high powered laser at the moon and etch a VCF logo into it. It'll work, it'll work. On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 1:22 PM Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Very true. I agree that the variety at VCF ensures that we cover a broader
interest. That being said, how do we get people to want to walk in the door
in the first place? Personally, I don't think that Facebook and blogs are
enough. Can we reach a larger audience?
On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 12:38 PM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <
vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On 01/11/2017 11:54 AM, Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Dave, I agree with you. However, what can be done to make serious
software
eye-catching? I personally am thrilled to look at spreadsheets all day
(well, maybe not thrilled), but I think that kind of thing would not grab
the attention of the average person. I think we have had similar
discussions here: how do we present our hobby in such a way to draw
people
in and help them appreciate it the way that we do?
I think many people will be drawn in by their own curiosity about
history. That's why people walk into museums. The Smithsonian doesn't
have a guy outside trying to drag people in to play a game of "catch"
with an animated dinosaur skeleton.
I agree that a lot of "serious software" can be boring to some people.
So they'll walk by and head over to the table of personal computers
with games running. There were real working physicists at the last VCF
at which I exhibited. Two of them spent some time with my PDP-11s.
They probably walked right by the Commodore 64s. That's the great thing
about VCF...there's something for everyone. I personally didn't care
that most of the kids and spouses weren't interested in my PDP-11s...but
I loved the fact that the physicists were.
I think it's a very bad idea to reduce it to "something for the kids"
when it's currently "something for everyone".
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Very true. I agree that the variety at VCF ensures that we cover a broader interest. That being said, how do we get people to want to walk in the door in the first place? Personally, I don't think that Facebook and blogs are enough. Can we reach a larger audience?
We do a TON of different marketing things (a huge part of my job) and we see which ones stick. Briefly: - We reach out to tech media - We contact local mainstream news - We implant chips in peoples' brains - We reach out to hackerspaces, amateur radio clubs, ACM/IEEE chapters, general computer clubs, other museums, etc. - We use Facebook and Twitter - We use the force - We ask the other InfoAge groups to tell their members - We have an email announcement-only list (http://vcfed.org/wp/newsletter/) - We have candy - We preach VCF in our exhibit at related events
I'm working on planning my exhibit for this year. To keep things not identical to last year I was thinking of showing Xenix on my Lisa. However I'm worried the exhibit won't be interesting enough to the general public (Oh look, it runs. Oh look, it's Unix. Oh look, there's a clunky menu interface you can bring up.)
How about setting up a Micnet network between all the Xenix machines that show up? I've been looking to try it and I have a 100' RS232 cable I've been looking for an excuse to use. Does Lisa Xenix have Micnet? I believe it showed up in System III. We have it in the last version of Tandy Xenix v3.2.
Of course games are always interesting... however as far as I know none were made.
We have a 7 disk set of Xenix games in the model2archive. I don't know if they are compatible with other Xenix. It has a pretty good Star Trek implementation. https://github.com/pski/model2archive/tree/master/Software/Xenix/Xenix_Games
Lisa Xenix does have Micnet, and demoing that was one of the things I wanted to show off! Getting it to talk between systems would be super cool. I imagine a Micnet between a Lisa and another system hasn't been done for years. I would love to hang a couple terminals off of the system - problem is the Lisa only has 2 serial ports. There was a 4 port serial card made for use with Xenix, I'll try to convince someone on the Lisa List who has one to lend it to me. Does the museum have a VT100 or similar vintagey terminal I could borrow? Barring that I have a PS/2 P70 I could use as a terminal. Thanks for the input everyone! PS: Evan, I'll get my submission written up now :) -J On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 7:18 AM, Peter Cetinski <pete@pski.net> wrote:
I'm working on planning my exhibit for this year. To keep things not identical to last year I was thinking of showing Xenix on my Lisa. However I'm worried the exhibit won't be interesting enough to the general public (Oh look, it runs. Oh look, it's Unix. Oh look, there's a clunky menu interface you can bring up.)
How about setting up a Micnet network between all the Xenix machines that show up? I've been looking to try it and I have a 100' RS232 cable I've been looking for an excuse to use. Does Lisa Xenix have Micnet? I believe it showed up in System III. We have it in the last version of Tandy Xenix v3.2.
Of course games are always interesting... however as far as I know none were made.
We have a 7 disk set of Xenix games in the model2archive. I don't know if they are compatible with other Xenix. It has a pretty good Star Trek implementation.
https://github.com/pski/model2archive/tree/master/Software/Xenix/Xenix_Games
-- Jason Perkins 313 355 0085
Micnet was great. We had one Xenix host set as a hub that connected the 5 other Tandy 6000s in the office. That machine also ran UUCP back to usenet at 1200 baud. Be aware that the UUCP on the Tandy is not the latest (HoneyDanBer systems will not talk to it). ________________________________ From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> on behalf of Peter Cetinski via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 7:18 AM To: vcf-midatlantic Cc: Peter Cetinski Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Advice on Xenix VCF exhibit
I'm working on planning my exhibit for this year. To keep things not identical to last year I was thinking of showing Xenix on my Lisa. However I'm worried the exhibit won't be interesting enough to the general public (Oh look, it runs. Oh look, it's Unix. Oh look, there's a clunky menu interface you can bring up.)
How about setting up a Micnet network between all the Xenix machines that show up? I've been looking to try it and I have a 100' RS232 cable I've been looking for an excuse to use. Does Lisa Xenix have Micnet? I believe it showed up in System III. We have it in the last version of Tandy Xenix v3.2.
Of course games are always interesting... however as far as I know none were made.
We have a 7 disk set of Xenix games in the model2archive. I don't know if they are compatible with other Xenix. It has a pretty good Star Trek implementation. https://github.com/pski/model2archive/tree/master/Software/Xenix/Xenix_Games
On 01/11/2017 09:17 AM, Kelly Leavitt via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Micnet was great. We had one Xenix host set as a hub that connected the 5 other Tandy 6000s in the office. That machine also ran UUCP back to usenet at 1200 baud.
Be aware that the UUCP on the Tandy is not the latest (HoneyDanBer systems will not talk to it).
Whoa, HoneyDanBer sure is a blast from the past! -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
Peter / rest of the group, Do you have a Tandy machine which could run this? The only hardware I'll have available for the demo is my Lisa 2/10, and a friend who is bringing an IBM Portable PC (xt). I think showing Xenix on varied hardware, with email working between is a nice demo. -J On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 7:18 AM, Peter Cetinski <pete@pski.net> wrote:
I'm working on planning my exhibit for this year. To keep things not identical to last year I was thinking of showing Xenix on my Lisa. However I'm worried the exhibit won't be interesting enough to the general public (Oh look, it runs. Oh look, it's Unix. Oh look, there's a clunky menu interface you can bring up.)
How about setting up a Micnet network between all the Xenix machines that show up? I've been looking to try it and I have a 100' RS232 cable I've been looking for an excuse to use. Does Lisa Xenix have Micnet? I believe it showed up in System III. We have it in the last version of Tandy Xenix v3.2.
Of course games are always interesting... however as far as I know none were made.
We have a 7 disk set of Xenix games in the model2archive. I don't know if they are compatible with other Xenix. It has a pretty good Star Trek implementation.
https://github.com/pski/model2archive/tree/master/Software/Xenix/Xenix_Games
-- Jason Perkins 313 355 0085
We plan on having a Tandy 6000 in the TRS-80 exhibit which will run Micnet. I'll bring my long RS-232 cable. Pete
On Feb 10, 2017, at 3:50 PM, Jason Perkins <perkins.jason@gmail.com> wrote:
Peter / rest of the group,
Do you have a Tandy machine which could run this? The only hardware I'll have available for the demo is my Lisa 2/10, and a friend who is bringing an IBM Portable PC (xt).
I think showing Xenix on varied hardware, with email working between is a nice demo.
-J
On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 7:18 AM, Peter Cetinski <pete@pski.net> wrote:
I'm working on planning my exhibit for this year. To keep things not identical to last year I was thinking of showing Xenix on my Lisa. However I'm worried the exhibit won't be interesting enough to the general public (Oh look, it runs. Oh look, it's Unix. Oh look, there's a clunky menu interface you can bring up.)
How about setting up a Micnet network between all the Xenix machines that show up? I've been looking to try it and I have a 100' RS232 cable I've been looking for an excuse to use. Does Lisa Xenix have Micnet? I believe it showed up in System III. We have it in the last version of Tandy Xenix v3.2.
Of course games are always interesting... however as far as I know none were made.
We have a 7 disk set of Xenix games in the model2archive. I don't know if they are compatible with other Xenix. It has a pretty good Star Trek implementation.
https://github.com/pski/model2archive/tree/master/Software/Xenix/Xenix_Games
-- Jason Perkins 313 355 0085
On 2/10/2017 8:53 PM, Peter Cetinski via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
The team exhibits will be in a different room (and down the hall) from most of the regular exhibits. You won't be able to connect your 6000 to Jason's systems. Sorry... And here I though I finally found a good use for my 100' Radio Shack RS-232 cable. Bring it along we may need it somewhere, I may need it!
I could bring some Cat5, Ends, and adapters. Evan, there's no pathway between the 2 spaces? -J On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 8:54 PM Peter Cetinski via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
The team exhibits will be in a different room (and down the hall) from most of the regular exhibits. You won't be able to connect your 6000 to Jason's systems. Sorry...
And here I though I finally found a good use for my 100' Radio Shack RS-232 cable.
-- Jason Perkins 313 355 0085 Sent from my iPhone
Evan, there's no pathway between the 2 spaces
There's a hallway, but no safe way to put a serial cable there without it interfering. The cable could possibly go out the window, across a human-free courtyard, and into a window of the other room. Emphasis on "possibly": we'll get yelled at by IA management for letting HVAC escape... anyone from the Tandy team (paging Dean who'll be there today!) is welcome to consider it.
Let's take a look at these space today. Dean On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 8:27 AM Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Evan, there's no pathway between the 2 spaces
There's a hallway, but no safe way to put a serial cable there without it interfering. The cable could possibly go out the window, across a human-free courtyard, and into a window of the other room. Emphasis on "possibly": we'll get yelled at by IA management for letting HVAC escape... anyone from the Tandy team (paging Dean who'll be there today!) is welcome to consider it.
The museum has two AT&T 3B-2s that should include micnet. Sent from Surface From: Matt Patoray via vcf-midatlantic Sent: Friday, February 10, 2017 6:49 PM To: Jason Perkins Cc: Peter Cetinski, Matt Patoray via vcf-midatlantic We plan on having a Tandy 6000 in the TRS-80 exhibit which will run Micnet. I'll bring my long RS-232 cable. Pete
On Feb 10, 2017, at 3:50 PM, Jason Perkins <perkins.jason@gmail.com> wrote:
Peter / rest of the group,
Do you have a Tandy machine which could run this? The only hardware I'll have available for the demo is my Lisa 2/10, and a friend who is bringing an IBM Portable PC (xt).
I think showing Xenix on varied hardware, with email working between is a nice demo.
-J
On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 7:18 AM, Peter Cetinski <pete@pski.net> wrote:
I'm working on planning my exhibit for this year. To keep things not identical to last year I was thinking of showing Xenix on my Lisa. However I'm worried the exhibit won't be interesting enough to the general public (Oh look, it runs. Oh look, it's Unix. Oh look, there's a clunky menu interface you can bring up.)
How about setting up a Micnet network between all the Xenix machines that show up? I've been looking to try it and I have a 100' RS232 cable I've been looking for an excuse to use. Does Lisa Xenix have Micnet? I believe it showed up in System III. We have it in the last version of Tandy Xenix v3.2.
Of course games are always interesting... however as far as I know none were made.
We have a 7 disk set of Xenix games in the model2archive. I don't know if they are compatible with other Xenix. It has a pretty good Star Trek implementation.
https://github.com/pski/model2archive/tree/master/Software/Xenix/Xenix_Games
-- Jason Perkins 313 355 0085
On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 10:11:38PM -0500, Jason Perkins via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
VCFers,
I'm working on planning my exhibit for this year. To keep things not identical to last year I was thinking of showing Xenix on my Lisa. However I'm worried the exhibit won't be interesting enough to the general public (Oh look, it runs. Oh look, it's Unix. Oh look, there's a clunky menu interface you can bring up.)
My thoughts on how I might deal with this. Take what matches your interest. I vary my exhibit from crowd pleaser to what interests me. Last year was the historical context and what was special to me knowing it would get less attention. As long as you are ok with that I don't see it as a problem. I do see what I can do that will be an initial pull to get people to stop and hopefully be interested in seeing more in depth. This all assumes that Lisa Xenix was something generally available and was used. If it is a modern port or never made it past feasibility build below isn't meaningful. More directly for your proposed exhibit I would start with why Xenix. The Lisa was an integrated software and hardware solution so why would people run Xenix? I assume that would be for particular programs that only ran under it or compatibility with other machines they had and the Lisa was better or cheaper hardware to run it on. Assuming that there were particular programs that were important I would try to find a few that I could demo. One way to have a catch to bring people over would be a slide show of screen shots from the programs. That gives you a quick way to talk about what was done with the machine for the short stop people and when one of them strikes peoples interest you can then fire up the real program to go into more detail. If a program does something without interaction that also works. The games can be in the same slide show. I normally have a couple different angles to the exhibit to try to match the people who stop varying level of interest.
Of course games are always interesting... however as far as I know none were made. The system does have a Pascal compiler, so perhaps that's an option to get something new into the system?
This is a Unix system with no C compiler? I would think that the classic Unix games would have been built for it. We has them on the 3B1 last year since they were originally played on that machine. The Text tetris was popular.
participants (15)
-
Chris Fala -
Dave McGuire -
David Gesswein -
Dean Notarnicola -
Douglas Crawford -
Evan Koblentz -
Evan Koblentz -
Jason Perkins -
Jim Scheef -
Kelly Leavitt -
Mike Loewen -
Neil Cherry -
Peter Cetinski -
Todd George -
william degnan