I want us to build a MOBIDIC replica at the museum. Background for any newer list members who aren't aware: MOBIDIC -- Mobile Digital Computer -- was a first-gen (1956) transistor computer designed by the staff of Camp Evans, which is the Army Signal Corps secret electronics R&D facility that's now the InfoAge Science Center, which hosts the VCF museum among many other groups. MOBIDIC was not the "first" mobile computer. For example, the National Bureau of Standards (today called NIST) made DYSEAC in 1953. However DYSEAC was a one-time prototype, whereas Sylvania (in Massachusetts, under contract to Camp Evans) built six MOBIDIC computers all of which were successfully used in field operations for several years. Sylvania also made two 9400 computers which were faster versions of the MOBIDIC design. "Mobile" is relative. :) Each MOBIDIC was installed in two 30-ft. trailers. One for the computer itself, one for power, cooling, etc., with the trailers attached by cables/hoses when in use. None of the six MOBIDICs or two 9400s exist today. Our museum has a beat-up scale model of the computer trailer. Computer History Museum (our friends out in California) have a better model. There are various pictures on the Internet. There are large amounts of public/private documents from the Army/Sylvania about details of the electronic design, architecture, components, programming, etc., most of (all?) of which I obtained while writing my book "Abacus to smartphone: The evolution of mobile and portable computers" published in 2015 (www.abacustosmartphone.com). From this information, I believe a replica MOBIDIC could be constructed. At least, a fullish-scale model could be made, and we could let visitors walk inside to see it. At best, someone could emulate the software so the model could "work". (I can't fathom building a complete truly "working" exact clone.) Conveniently, there are two 50s/60s-era Army-green trailers parked at InfoAge. They're under control of the electronic warfare group, whose leader (John C.) is a super-nice guy. We get along well. A while ago I asked him if we could use one trailer for this purpose. We "just" need the know-how and money to do it. So if we do this, the replica would only be of the computer trailer, not of the support trailer. I envision plenty of signs explaining to visitors that this trailer is HALF an installation. I have some ideas about how to fund the project, but there's no point getting into that until we understand how much work is really involved and what it would cost. * I wrote "fullish-scale", not full-scale, because I haven't measured the length of the available trailers. It would be close. Online images: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOBIDIC#/media/File:MOBIDIC_cutaway.jpg https://www.usarmygermany.com/Units/7th%20Army%20SUPCOM/Partials_7th%20ICC%2...
Great idea. The intersection of computer development and Fort Evans in the MOBIDIC is particularly relevant for the museum! On 11/28/2017 1:19 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
I want us to build a MOBIDIC replica at the museum.
Background for any newer list members who aren't aware: MOBIDIC -- Mobile Digital Computer -- was a first-gen (1956) transistor computer designed by the staff of Camp Evans, which is the Army Signal Corps secret electronics R&D facility that's now the InfoAge Science Center, which hosts the VCF museum among many other groups.
MOBIDIC was not the "first" mobile computer. For example, the National Bureau of Standards (today called NIST) made DYSEAC in 1953. However DYSEAC was a one-time prototype, whereas Sylvania (in Massachusetts, under contract to Camp Evans) built six MOBIDIC computers all of which were successfully used in field operations for several years. Sylvania also made two 9400 computers which were faster versions of the MOBIDIC design.
"Mobile" is relative. :) Each MOBIDIC was installed in two 30-ft. trailers. One for the computer itself, one for power, cooling, etc., with the trailers attached by cables/hoses when in use.
None of the six MOBIDICs or two 9400s exist today.
Our museum has a beat-up scale model of the computer trailer. Computer History Museum (our friends out in California) have a better model. There are various pictures on the Internet. There are large amounts of public/private documents from the Army/Sylvania about details of the electronic design, architecture, components, programming, etc., most of (all?) of which I obtained while writing my book "Abacus to smartphone: The evolution of mobile and portable computers" published in 2015 (www.abacustosmartphone.com).
From this information, I believe a replica MOBIDIC could be constructed. At least, a fullish-scale model could be made, and we could let visitors walk inside to see it. At best, someone could emulate the software so the model could "work". (I can't fathom building a complete truly "working" exact clone.)
Conveniently, there are two 50s/60s-era Army-green trailers parked at InfoAge. They're under control of the electronic warfare group, whose leader (John C.) is a super-nice guy. We get along well. A while ago I asked him if we could use one trailer for this purpose. We "just" need the know-how and money to do it.
So if we do this, the replica would only be of the computer trailer, not of the support trailer. I envision plenty of signs explaining to visitors that this trailer is HALF an installation.
I have some ideas about how to fund the project, but there's no point getting into that until we understand how much work is really involved and what it would cost.
* I wrote "fullish-scale", not full-scale, because I haven't measured the length of the available trailers. It would be close.
Online images:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOBIDIC#/media/File:MOBIDIC_cutaway.jpg
https://www.usarmygermany.com/Units/7th%20Army%20SUPCOM/Partials_7th%20ICC%2...
The intersection of computer development and Fort Evans in the MOBIDIC is particularly relevant for the museum!
IA management keeps reminding us to do more of this, the issue is limited space, but I have some ideas. Stay tuned. :) PS. It's "Camp" Evans, not Fort. CE was one of four camp-level locations all reporting to Fort Monmouth.
This is a really cool idea - and an easy way of basically grabbing more space for our group ;) What would the models of the computers be made of? Cardboard? Sheet metal? On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 1:43 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
The intersection of computer development and Fort Evans in the MOBIDIC is
particularly relevant for the museum!
IA management keeps reminding us to do more of this, the issue is limited space, but I have some ideas. Stay tuned. :)
PS. It's "Camp" Evans, not Fort. CE was one of four camp-level locations all reporting to Fort Monmouth.
Ever consider a smaller scale for display purposes? I can 3D print replica panels up to 6" x 6" x 6" for smaller scales, notched for assembly in larger surfaces. Stick with the wood and sheet metal for 1:1 scale. As for the emulation, will the design, architecture, components, programming materials be available to the group so those interested can figure out what effort they can or may contribute to the project? Considering the comparable lack of complexity, it could be emulated on an Arduino Mega, Raspberry Pi (even a Zero), or for fun, how about an Apple II or C-64? :) On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 2:21 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
This is a really cool idea
Thanks.
What would the models of the computers be made of? Cardboard? Sheet metal?
I don't know. Perhaps wooden frames with sheet metal covers. I think cardboard would be too flimsy.
Ever consider a smaller scale for display purposes?
Well we already have a small scale model made by the Army on display. If we're going to make something, then let's go all the way. :)
As for the emulation, will the design, architecture, components, programming materials be available to the group
I'll endeavor to get it all onto Bitsavers.
so those interested can figure out what effort they can or may contribute to the project? Considering the comparable lack of complexity, it could be emulated on an Arduino Mega, Raspberry Pi
Something like that would be great, then we could show people (instead of just telling them), "This whole truck is emulated in a $10 microcontroller."
On 11/28/2017 02:39 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
so those interested can figure out what effort they can or may contribute to the project? Considering the comparable lack of complexity, it could be emulated on an Arduino Mega, Raspberry Pi
Something like that would be great, then we could show people (instead of just telling them), "This whole truck is emulated in a $10 microcontroller."
Surely there's a better way to explain and historically frame an important system than by belittling it. I mean, yes, we all know (and everyone with a pulse knows) that technology is advancing, and has always advanced. Surely there's a more respectful way to illustrate that than to say "look how much this sucked, it only takes THIS little piece of crap to do the same job!" Just sayin'. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
so those interested can figure out what effort they can or may contribute to the project? Considering the comparable lack of complexity, it could be emulated on an Arduino Mega, Raspberry Pi Something like that would be great, then we could show people (instead of just telling them), "This whole truck is emulated in a $10 microcontroller." Surely there's a better way to explain and historically frame an important system than by belittling it. I mean, yes, we all know (and everyone with a pulse knows) that technology is advancing, and has always advanced. Surely there's a more respectful way to illustrate that than to say "look how much this sucked, it only takes THIS little piece of crap to do the same job!"
I'm not saying that is the ONLY way we'd explain it. One of many. Rest assured, we will tell the story of how and why this amazing computer came to exist. And stop calling me Shirley. :)
On 11/28/2017 04:41 PM, Drew Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
And stop calling me Shirley. :)
Shirley, you don't mean that.
+1 Let's eat grandma! ... Let's eat, grandma! Punctuation saves lives. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
For some reason, I feel compelled to tackle the creation of a small microprocessor (Arduino, etc.) emulator for the MOBIDIC. I found technical specifications for the MOBIDIC 7A and discovered just how different it was to modern computing architecture. Interesting stuff. It's kind of fun learning about things like a Hollerith Constant for character storage, and its implementation in the MOBIDIC. Learn something new everyday... :) On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Evan Koblentz <evan@vcfed.org> wrote:
Ever consider a smaller scale for display purposes?
Well we already have a small scale model made by the Army on display. If we're going to make something, then let's go all the way. :)
As for the emulation, will the design, architecture, components,
programming materials be available to the group
I'll endeavor to get it all onto Bitsavers.
so those interested can
figure out what effort they can or may contribute to the project? Considering the comparable lack of complexity, it could be emulated on an Arduino Mega, Raspberry Pi
Something like that would be great, then we could show people (instead of just telling them), "This whole truck is emulated in a $10 microcontroller."
Very exciting- It might be possible to work towards some sort of a working replica then! On 12/1/2017 12:39 PM, Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
For some reason, I feel compelled to tackle the creation of a small microprocessor (Arduino, etc.) emulator for the MOBIDIC. I found technical specifications for the MOBIDIC 7A and discovered just how different it was to modern computing architecture. Interesting stuff. It's kind of fun learning about things like a Hollerith Constant for character storage, and its implementation in the MOBIDIC.
Learn something new everyday... :)
On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Evan Koblentz <evan@vcfed.org> wrote:
Ever consider a smaller scale for display purposes? Well we already have a small scale model made by the Army on display. If we're going to make something, then let's go all the way. :)
As for the emulation, will the design, architecture, components,
programming materials be available to the group
I'll endeavor to get it all onto Bitsavers.
so those interested can
figure out what effort they can or may contribute to the project? Considering the comparable lack of complexity, it could be emulated on an Arduino Mega, Raspberry Pi
Something like that would be great, then we could show people (instead of just telling them), "This whole truck is emulated in a $10 microcontroller."
So far, it appears to be possible. I'm already researching how to make the MOBIDIC components work as Arduino libraries. Once I wrap my head around its computing paradigm, that effort will become easier. On Dec 1, 2017 12:56 PM, "Douglas Crawford via vcf-midatlantic" < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Very exciting- It might be possible to work towards some sort of a working replica then!
On 12/1/2017 12:39 PM, Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
For some reason, I feel compelled to tackle the creation of a small microprocessor (Arduino, etc.) emulator for the MOBIDIC. I found technical specifications for the MOBIDIC 7A and discovered just how different it was to modern computing architecture. Interesting stuff. It's kind of fun learning about things like a Hollerith Constant for character storage, and its implementation in the MOBIDIC.
Learn something new everyday... :)
On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Evan Koblentz <evan@vcfed.org> wrote:
Ever consider a smaller scale for display purposes?
Well we already have a small scale model made by the Army on display. If we're going to make something, then let's go all the way. :)
As for the emulation, will the design, architecture, components,
programming materials be available to the group
I'll endeavor to get it all onto Bitsavers.
so those interested can
figure out what effort they can or may contribute to the project? Considering the comparable lack of complexity, it could be emulated on an Arduino Mega, Raspberry Pi
Something like that would be great, then we could show people (instead of just telling them), "This whole truck is emulated in a $10 microcontroller."
Jeff, This sounds very interesting. If possible, I would like to follow your work to learn from you. Contact me privately if you have time. Chris On Dec 1, 2017, at 3:23 PM, Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: So far, it appears to be possible. I'm already researching how to make the MOBIDIC components work as Arduino libraries. Once I wrap my head around its computing paradigm, that effort will become easier. On Dec 1, 2017 12:56 PM, "Douglas Crawford via vcf-midatlantic" < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Very exciting- It might be possible to work towards some sort of a working replica then!
On 12/1/2017 12:39 PM, Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
For some reason, I feel compelled to tackle the creation of a small microprocessor (Arduino, etc.) emulator for the MOBIDIC. I found technical specifications for the MOBIDIC 7A and discovered just how different it was to modern computing architecture. Interesting stuff. It's kind of fun learning about things like a Hollerith Constant for character storage, and its implementation in the MOBIDIC.
Learn something new everyday... :)
On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Evan Koblentz <evan@vcfed.org> wrote:
Ever consider a smaller scale for display purposes?
Well we already have a small scale model made by the Army on display. If we're going to make something, then let's go all the way. :)
As for the emulation, will the design, architecture, components,
programming materials be available to the group
I'll endeavor to get it all onto Bitsavers.
so those interested can
figure out what effort they can or may contribute to the project? Considering the comparable lack of complexity, it could be emulated on an Arduino Mega, Raspberry Pi
Something like that would be great, then we could show people (instead of just telling them), "This whole truck is emulated in a $10 microcontroller."
Sadly, I would have thought any replica really needed some working software, does any survive? Dave
-----Original Message----- From: vcf-midatlantic [mailto:vcf-midatlantic- bounces@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Crawford via vcf-midatlantic Sent: 01 December 2017 17:56 To: vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org Cc: Douglas Crawford <touchetek@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] MOBIDIC replica project
Very exciting- It might be possible to work towards some sort of a working replica then!
On 12/1/2017 12:39 PM, Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
For some reason, I feel compelled to tackle the creation of a small microprocessor (Arduino, etc.) emulator for the MOBIDIC. I found technical specifications for the MOBIDIC 7A and discovered just how different it was to modern computing architecture. Interesting stuff. It's kind of fun learning about things like a Hollerith Constant for character storage, and its implementation in the MOBIDIC.
Learn something new everyday... :)
On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Evan Koblentz <evan@vcfed.org> wrote:
Ever consider a smaller scale for display purposes? Well we already have a small scale model made by the Army on display. If we're going to make something, then let's go all the way. :)
As for the emulation, will the design, architecture, components,
programming materials be available to the group
I'll endeavor to get it all onto Bitsavers.
so those interested can
figure out what effort they can or may contribute to the project? Considering the comparable lack of complexity, it could be emulated on an Arduino Mega, Raspberry Pi
Something like that would be great, then we could show people (instead of just telling them), "This whole truck is emulated in a $10 microcontroller."
That's what I was wondering. It'll help to have some sort of "Hello World" program for the MOBIDIC. But, it's supposed to have 17 modes of operation. Perhaps being able to engage those modes will be a good start. On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 3:38 PM, Dave Wade via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Sadly, I would have thought any replica really needed some working software, does any survive?
I'll start gathering all of the articles and documentation that I accumulated from the book research. Some is digital, some is in print. On Dec 1, 2017 4:12 PM, "Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic" < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
That's what I was wondering. It'll help to have some sort of "Hello World" program for the MOBIDIC. But, it's supposed to have 17 modes of operation. Perhaps being able to engage those modes will be a good start.
On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 3:38 PM, Dave Wade via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Sadly, I would have thought any replica really needed some working software, does any survive?
What kind of amuses me a bit is that the acronym has since been used by several different companies for different products. IBM had a product with that name, Drupal has a theme, another product called MOBIle Decision-making In the Cloud... LOL On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 4:21 PM Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
I'll start gathering all of the articles and documentation that I accumulated from the book research. Some is digital, some is in print.
On Dec 1, 2017 4:12 PM, "Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic" < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
That's what I was wondering. It'll help to have some sort of "Hello World" program for the MOBIDIC. But, it's supposed to have 17 modes of operation. Perhaps being able to engage those modes will be a good start.
On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 3:38 PM, Dave Wade via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Sadly, I would have thought any replica really needed some working software, does any survive?
-- Normal Person: Hey, it seems that you know a lot. Geek: To be honest, it's due to all the surfing I do. Normal Person: So you go surfing? Normal Person: But I don't think that has anything to do with knowing a lot... Geek: I think that's wrong on a fundamental level. Normal Person: Huh? Huh? What?
Modern and portable ERP services. On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 6:19 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
What kind of amuses me a bit is that the acronym has since been used by
several different companies for different products. IBM had a product with that name
What IBM product?
https://www.research.ibm.com/haifa/projects/imt/mobidic/index.html Looks pseudo-modern. Like some interface for WAP browsers in old Nokia phones. On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 6:30 PM Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Modern and portable ERP services.
On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 6:19 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
What kind of amuses me a bit is that the acronym has since been used by
several different companies for different products. IBM had a product
with
that name
What IBM product?
-- Normal Person: Hey, it seems that you know a lot. Geek: To be honest, it's due to all the surfing I do. Normal Person: So you go surfing? Normal Person: But I don't think that has anything to do with knowing a lot... Geek: I think that's wrong on a fundamental level. Normal Person: Huh? Huh? What?
On Tue, 28 Nov 2017, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
I want us to build a MOBIDIC replica at the museum.
I think this is an interesting project. However, I suggest its priority should rank below getting an inventory of what we aready have. It bothers me greatly that we don't have a record of our holdings. We should have pictures of each item, along with make, model, s/n and donor info, at the least. First we need to collect the information, then we can organize it. Yes, it takes volunteers to accomplish this. Unfortunately, a lot of us are just too far from Infoage to be able to help, much. Once the data has been gathered, then things open up for remote organization. I urge people to move on this. Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
I want us to build a MOBIDIC replica at the museum.
I think this is an interesting project. However, I suggest its priority should rank below getting an inventory of what we aready have.
I completely agree. Not as much fun :) but vastly more important. (I only posted the MOBIDIC idea now because it evolved from Bill's post about a Cray-in-a-truck.) I'll make another new posting about inventory-ing (I'm in a posting mood today.)
participants (10)
-
Chris Fala -
Dave McGuire -
Dave Wade -
Douglas Crawford -
Drew Notarnicola -
Evan Koblentz -
Joseph Oprysko -
jsalzman＠gmail.com -
Mike Loewen -
Neil Cherry