Jeff, in more than a few words: what changed? What happened? That VCFed can't use the *full kitchen* at InfoAge? Do people need to bring more food, better food? Does someone else need to volunteer to cook burgers and brauts outside in December? Do you need more money to pay for that stuff? If so - ASK. And explain. It's a month out, there's time. Let people know. Regards Herb Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA https://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT comcast DOT net
On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 2:07 PM Herbert Johnson via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Jeff, in more than a few words: what changed? What happened? That VCFed can't use the *full kitchen* at InfoAge? Do people need to bring more food, better food? Does someone else need to volunteer to cook burgers and brauts outside in December? Do you need more money to pay for that stuff? If so - ASK. And explain. It's a month out, there's time. Let people know.
What changed is that in recent years people were bringing less and less food. So at lunch time there was not much more than donuts and cookies to eat. So Bill and I spend $200 out of our own pocket to buy subs for lunch. They were gone in minutes. And not everyone was able to get some. So people end up going out to get food. I think the point of a party is that they have everything there to eat and they eat together. So the problem is that there isn't enough food brought by other people to feed people until the burgers are cooked. People are not contributing money towards buying food and there are usually one or two people cooking the burgers and hot dogs every year. I could simply charge more (like $30 per person) and then I would have enough money to go buy pizza and subs or whatever for lunch. I want to make it as simple as possible for the attendees *and* the organizers. I want it to be more fun than work. I want to share in the work so that more people can enjoy the party. I'm not sure what you mean by *full kitchen* the cafeteria we have full use which has sinks, tables, refrigerators, microwaves, toaster ovens. We also have the outside kitchen trailer which has a full grill setup. This is where we cooked burgers last year. It would be helpful if a different person every year did the cooking. It's me by default, but others will step up if they are available and willing, like last year with David Riley. I do all the shopping a few days ahead for the burgers, etc. from Shoprite. This isn't a problem for me. Only takes two hours to complete.
Regards Herb Johnson
-- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA https://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT comcast DOT net
Jeff, it is a shame that you’re having a problem with people not contributing to the food pool. My wife an I have always brought food to the event. I will continue to do so as long as it is OK with you. I enjoy the hamburgers and hot dogs also. Catering the event is fine with me , but I believe a REQUIREMENT to attend the event is to bring food ! Just my 2 cents Mike R. Sent from: My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device.
On Nov 12, 2023, at 3:22 PM, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 2:07 PM Herbert Johnson via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Jeff, in more than a few words: what changed? What happened? That VCFed can't use the *full kitchen* at InfoAge? Do people need to bring more food, better food? Does someone else need to volunteer to cook burgers and brauts outside in December? Do you need more money to pay for that stuff? If so - ASK. And explain. It's a month out, there's time. Let people know.
What changed is that in recent years people were bringing less and less food. So at lunch time there was not much more than donuts and cookies to eat. So Bill and I spend $200 out of our own pocket to buy subs for lunch. They were gone in minutes. And not everyone was able to get some. So people end up going out to get food. I think the point of a party is that they have everything there to eat and they eat together. So the problem is that there isn't enough food brought by other people to feed people until the burgers are cooked. People are not contributing money towards buying food and there are usually one or two people cooking the burgers and hot dogs every year. I could simply charge more (like $30 per person) and then I would have enough money to go buy pizza and subs or whatever for lunch. I want to make it as simple as possible for the attendees *and* the organizers. I want it to be more fun than work. I want to share in the work so that more people can enjoy the party.
I'm not sure what you mean by *full kitchen* the cafeteria we have full use which has sinks, tables, refrigerators, microwaves, toaster ovens. We also have the outside kitchen trailer which has a full grill setup. This is where we cooked burgers last year. It would be helpful if a different person every year did the cooking. It's me by default, but others will step up if they are available and willing, like last year with David Riley. I do all the shopping a few days ahead for the burgers, etc. from Shoprite. This isn't a problem for me. Only takes two hours to complete.
Regards Herb Johnson
-- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA https://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT comcast DOT net
I'm cool with the catering. It's different and something to try. I usually go get all the chicken wings and thos go pretty quickly so I'm down for chipping in for a caterer and let them cook.
Herbert Johnson wrote:
Jeff, in more than a few words: what changed? What happened? [If you need help,] ASK. And explain. It's a month out, there's time. Let people know.
On 11/12/2023 3:21 PM, Jeffrey Brace wrote: > What changed is that in recent years people were bringing less and less food.... So Bill and I spend $200 out of our own pocket to buy subs.. People are not contributing money towards buying food and there are usually one or two people cooking the burgers and hot dogs every year. I want to make it simple.. I want it to be more fun than work.
I'm not sure what you mean by *full kitchen* [it has] sinks, tables, refrigerators, microwaves, toaster ovens. We also have the outside grill setup. [grilling is] me by default ... I do all the shopping a few days ahead ..
OK, Jeff, first of all, thanks for the work, and effort! And thanks for making it clear, what has happened (not happened) in recent years! It's certainly not fair for you, and a few, to work so hard. And to pay out of your own pockets, that's just not right. Thank you for that sacrifice! And thanks for explaining. It makes sense, what you describe. Now, we know the situation. People can make informed choices and considerations, and respond to these things. Jeff, that's your main concern, right? People aren't responding - not bringing food, paying their way, helping out. Now I hear you! I think, myself, catering would be a loss. And, too expensive, maybe too hard to plan. I think bring-a-plate has the advantage, if we each pitch in - now that we know. I mentioned our kitchen facilities, it's a rare benefit for a social club. They allow us to have people bring home-cooked plates and dishes, keep them for hours or a day, warm them up and serve them. and to grill on-site too. Home-cooked food is (or was) better food than catered and fast-food. I also think, sharing prepared food together, is part of the social experience we've had every year. That was my experience in years prior. It was my experience last year, among the foods people brought, I won't explain details. How can catering compare to that? Surprises about some food, expecting other foods - that's all part of the event. Food isn't the main reason I go to Festivus. But it's a thing. After Covid, I don't dine out that often, eat meals from other people. Maybe others do, but I'm old, old people have to be cautious, need I explain? And you know, Jeff - I looked back at last year's discussion, to see if these were known issues? Just to see if I'm confused? Get a clue, why people didn't bring so much? And my apologies, but none of these issues were posted in last year's Festivus discussion. You posted thanks, people posted thanks in response - all in two days after the event. No complaints, no issues. You Jeff posted "constructive criticism, tell me privately". As far as food to bring, the post was "optional", not required or mandatory. I saw last year's bring-to list - it was over a dozen people. But it included Jeff and two others, who posted they'd provide burgers, brauts, subs. The rest listed, was a few dishes but mostly snacks and sodas. However: in years past, people brought stuff without posting. In years past, there was more than enough food. But things change, changes aren't always clear to everyone. There's no fault here, Jeff - Covid happened, people got unsocial, new people, different habits about food. It's OK to say "this isn't working, here's why". Again: how would many of us know, if you didn't say so? And in a public way, so it's OK to talk about it? YOu don't have to do this alone, Jeff. Subs, pizzas? They are another matter. It's a lunch, a different class of eating. Such food doesn't "last", it's called fast food, right? Order on the spot for those present. Make sure to collect costs from them. I paid! Who didn't pay? That can be fixed. I guess charging per head in advance might be simpler. I paid what I was asked to pay; if it wasn't enough, I would have paid again, even to cover someone else. ------------ So I vote for bring-a-dish, and grilling too if you can get more help, Pizza and subs, too. People have to step up, pay for things, bring more and better food, help *when asked to help*. These could still happen, I believe. Now we know! Some of us, like sharing special dishes. The rest, well, buy some prepared food. Just have to be organized about it, know what to expect. But - you know, other people may think otherwise. I'm old, I'm used to cooking, in a kitchen? With produce and meats and things? Maybe others, consume take-out and DoorDash all the time. Maybe Covid changed how people think about public and social dining. Maybe it's about handling money? I don't know. It's a public discussion, others can post their interests. As for labor, helping out - I wasn't asked. I'm old, I'm not running around physically. There's no shortage of (sorry, younger) people there who could help. But if I'm asked, I'll respond if I can. I'll grill outside in the cold, if no one else will. So I'll see what comes out of this discussion. It's better to talk about it, get some consensus. It's a collective social activity, right? We can sort it out. Regards Herb Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA https://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT comcast DOT net
Good input, Herb. Jeff ran this by me, I thought it was worth considering and giving it a try. If, due to cost or other reasons, its not feasible, I'll volunteer for grill work this year and give the prior grillers a break. And yes maybe we can do more to encourage more folks to bring a dish. We lost Jason Perkin's contribution - a huge hit! :-( Chris L- Wings are the bomb, if they aren't accounted for... well... the show must go on! Jeff's working it out... lets see what he comes up with. DC On 11/12/2023 9:18 PM, Herbert Johnson via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Herbert Johnson wrote:
Jeff, in more than a few words: what changed? What happened? [If you need help,] ASK. And explain. It's a month out, there's time. Let people know.
On 11/12/2023 3:21 PM, Jeffrey Brace wrote: > What changed is that in recent years people were bringing less and less food.... So Bill and I spend $200 out of our own pocket to buy subs.. People are not contributing money towards buying food and there are usually one or two people cooking the burgers and hot dogs every year. I want to make it simple.. I want it to be more fun than work.
I'm not sure what you mean by *full kitchen* [it has] sinks, tables, refrigerators, microwaves, toaster ovens. We also have the outside grill setup. [grilling is] me by default ... I do all the shopping a few days ahead ..
OK, Jeff, first of all, thanks for the work, and effort! And thanks for making it clear, what has happened (not happened) in recent years! It's certainly not fair for you, and a few, to work so hard. And to pay out of your own pockets, that's just not right. Thank you for that sacrifice! And thanks for explaining. It makes sense, what you describe.
Now, we know the situation. People can make informed choices and considerations, and respond to these things. Jeff, that's your main concern, right? People aren't responding - not bringing food, paying their way, helping out. Now I hear you!
I think, myself, catering would be a loss. And, too expensive, maybe too hard to plan. I think bring-a-plate has the advantage, if we each pitch in - now that we know.
I mentioned our kitchen facilities, it's a rare benefit for a social club. They allow us to have people bring home-cooked plates and dishes, keep them for hours or a day, warm them up and serve them. and to grill on-site too. Home-cooked food is (or was) better food than catered and fast-food.
I also think, sharing prepared food together, is part of the social experience we've had every year. That was my experience in years prior. It was my experience last year, among the foods people brought, I won't explain details. How can catering compare to that? Surprises about some food, expecting other foods - that's all part of the event.
Food isn't the main reason I go to Festivus. But it's a thing. After Covid, I don't dine out that often, eat meals from other people. Maybe others do, but I'm old, old people have to be cautious, need I explain?
And you know, Jeff - I looked back at last year's discussion, to see if these were known issues? Just to see if I'm confused? Get a clue, why people didn't bring so much?
And my apologies, but none of these issues were posted in last year's Festivus discussion. You posted thanks, people posted thanks in response - all in two days after the event. No complaints, no issues. You Jeff posted "constructive criticism, tell me privately". As far as food to bring, the post was "optional", not required or mandatory.
I saw last year's bring-to list - it was over a dozen people. But it included Jeff and two others, who posted they'd provide burgers, brauts, subs. The rest listed, was a few dishes but mostly snacks and sodas. However: in years past, people brought stuff without posting. In years past, there was more than enough food.
But things change, changes aren't always clear to everyone.
There's no fault here, Jeff - Covid happened, people got unsocial, new people, different habits about food. It's OK to say "this isn't working, here's why". Again: how would many of us know, if you didn't say so? And in a public way, so it's OK to talk about it? YOu don't have to do this alone, Jeff.
Subs, pizzas? They are another matter. It's a lunch, a different class of eating. Such food doesn't "last", it's called fast food, right? Order on the spot for those present. Make sure to collect costs from them. I paid! Who didn't pay? That can be fixed. I guess charging per head in advance might be simpler. I paid what I was asked to pay; if it wasn't enough, I would have paid again, even to cover someone else.
------------
So I vote for bring-a-dish, and grilling too if you can get more help, Pizza and subs, too. People have to step up, pay for things, bring more and better food, help *when asked to help*. These could still happen, I believe. Now we know! Some of us, like sharing special dishes. The rest, well, buy some prepared food. Just have to be organized about it, know what to expect.
But - you know, other people may think otherwise. I'm old, I'm used to cooking, in a kitchen? With produce and meats and things? Maybe others, consume take-out and DoorDash all the time. Maybe Covid changed how people think about public and social dining. Maybe it's about handling money? I don't know.
It's a public discussion, others can post their interests.
As for labor, helping out - I wasn't asked. I'm old, I'm not running around physically. There's no shortage of (sorry, younger) people there who could help. But if I'm asked, I'll respond if I can. I'll grill outside in the cold, if no one else will.
So I'll see what comes out of this discussion. It's better to talk about it, get some consensus. It's a collective social activity, right? We can sort it out.
Regards Herb Johnson
Yes, good input. Like many things it seems somewhere in the middle makes the most sense. I would think that store or purchased lunch of hoagies makes sense (pizza is not optimal IMHO), with a dinner meal that is on the grill - hamburgers and hotdogs as per tradition. People should bring $ for this expense. People should also be able to contribute by bringing snacks, drinks, desserts and various foods to share. Going 100% purchased goes away from the community aspects of the group and then you fall into collecting cash and having to monitor freeloaders, which no one wants to do. -andy
On Nov 13, 2023, at 8:23 AM, Douglas Crawford via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Good input, Herb. Jeff ran this by me, I thought it was worth considering and giving it a try. If, due to cost or other reasons, its not feasible, I'll volunteer for grill work this year and give the prior grillers a break.
And yes maybe we can do more to encourage more folks to bring a dish. We lost Jason Perkin's contribution - a huge hit! :-( Chris L- Wings are the bomb, if they aren't accounted for... well... the show must go on!
Jeff's working it out... lets see what he comes up with.
DC
On 11/12/2023 9:18 PM, Herbert Johnson via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Herbert Johnson wrote:
Jeff, in more than a few words: what changed? What happened? [If you need help,] ASK. And explain. It's a month out, there's time. Let people know. On 11/12/2023 3:21 PM, Jeffrey Brace wrote: > What changed is that in recent years people were bringing less and less food.... So Bill and I spend $200 out of our own pocket to buy subs.. People are not contributing money towards buying food and there are usually one or two people cooking the burgers and hot dogs every year. I want to make it simple.. I want it to be more fun than work. I'm not sure what you mean by *full kitchen* [it has] sinks, tables, refrigerators, microwaves, toaster ovens. We also have the outside grill setup. [grilling is] me by default ... I do all the shopping a few days ahead .. OK, Jeff, first of all, thanks for the work, and effort! And thanks for making it clear, what has happened (not happened) in recent years! It's certainly not fair for you, and a few, to work so hard. And to pay out of your own pockets, that's just not right. Thank you for that sacrifice! And thanks for explaining. It makes sense, what you describe. Now, we know the situation. People can make informed choices and considerations, and respond to these things. Jeff, that's your main concern, right? People aren't responding - not bringing food, paying their way, helping out. Now I hear you! I think, myself, catering would be a loss. And, too expensive, maybe too hard to plan. I think bring-a-plate has the advantage, if we each pitch in - now that we know. I mentioned our kitchen facilities, it's a rare benefit for a social club. They allow us to have people bring home-cooked plates and dishes, keep them for hours or a day, warm them up and serve them. and to grill on-site too. Home-cooked food is (or was) better food than catered and fast-food. I also think, sharing prepared food together, is part of the social experience we've had every year. That was my experience in years prior. It was my experience last year, among the foods people brought, I won't explain details. How can catering compare to that? Surprises about some food, expecting other foods - that's all part of the event. Food isn't the main reason I go to Festivus. But it's a thing. After Covid, I don't dine out that often, eat meals from other people. Maybe others do, but I'm old, old people have to be cautious, need I explain? And you know, Jeff - I looked back at last year's discussion, to see if these were known issues? Just to see if I'm confused? Get a clue, why people didn't bring so much? And my apologies, but none of these issues were posted in last year's Festivus discussion. You posted thanks, people posted thanks in response - all in two days after the event. No complaints, no issues. You Jeff posted "constructive criticism, tell me privately". As far as food to bring, the post was "optional", not required or mandatory. I saw last year's bring-to list - it was over a dozen people. But it included Jeff and two others, who posted they'd provide burgers, brauts, subs. The rest listed, was a few dishes but mostly snacks and sodas. However: in years past, people brought stuff without posting. In years past, there was more than enough food. But things change, changes aren't always clear to everyone. There's no fault here, Jeff - Covid happened, people got unsocial, new people, different habits about food. It's OK to say "this isn't working, here's why". Again: how would many of us know, if you didn't say so? And in a public way, so it's OK to talk about it? YOu don't have to do this alone, Jeff. Subs, pizzas? They are another matter. It's a lunch, a different class of eating. Such food doesn't "last", it's called fast food, right? Order on the spot for those present. Make sure to collect costs from them. I paid! Who didn't pay? That can be fixed. I guess charging per head in advance might be simpler. I paid what I was asked to pay; if it wasn't enough, I would have paid again, even to cover someone else.
So I vote for bring-a-dish, and grilling too if you can get more help, Pizza and subs, too. People have to step up, pay for things, bring more and better food, help *when asked to help*. These could still happen, I believe. Now we know! Some of us, like sharing special dishes. The rest, well, buy some prepared food. Just have to be organized about it, know what to expect. But - you know, other people may think otherwise. I'm old, I'm used to cooking, in a kitchen? With produce and meats and things? Maybe others, consume take-out and DoorDash all the time. Maybe Covid changed how people think about public and social dining. Maybe it's about handling money? I don't know. It's a public discussion, others can post their interests. As for labor, helping out - I wasn't asked. I'm old, I'm not running around physically. There's no shortage of (sorry, younger) people there who could help. But if I'm asked, I'll respond if I can. I'll grill outside in the cold, if no one else will. So I'll see what comes out of this discussion. It's better to talk about it, get some consensus. It's a collective social activity, right? We can sort it out. Regards Herb Johnson
I have only been to one full Festivus since I am new blood. Last year I brought chips and donuts. I agree it’s a good time for sharing with the community. Maybe we cater some sandwiches for lunch and keep dinner to the community! I did enjoy the subs last year and thought it was a staple just due to my inexperience of the event. I am willing to help with grilling stuff for dinner. I’ll bring a couple packs of Brats and dogs and sauerkraut. Does anyone else want to grab extra buns and/or additional sausages? -Ian L. On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 11:16 Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Yes, good input. Like many things it seems somewhere in the middle makes the most sense.
I would think that store or purchased lunch of hoagies makes sense (pizza is not optimal IMHO), with a dinner meal that is on the grill - hamburgers and hotdogs as per tradition. People should bring $ for this expense.
People should also be able to contribute by bringing snacks, drinks, desserts and various foods to share.
Going 100% purchased goes away from the community aspects of the group and then you fall into collecting cash and having to monitor freeloaders, which no one wants to do.
-andy
On Nov 13, 2023, at 8:23 AM, Douglas Crawford via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Good input, Herb. Jeff ran this by me, I thought it was worth considering and giving it a try. If, due to cost or other reasons, its not feasible, I'll volunteer for grill work this year and give the prior grillers a break.
And yes maybe we can do more to encourage more folks to bring a dish. We lost Jason Perkin's contribution - a huge hit! :-( Chris L- Wings are the bomb, if they aren't accounted for... well... the show must go on!
Jeff's working it out... lets see what he comes up with.
DC
On 11/12/2023 9:18 PM, Herbert Johnson via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Herbert Johnson wrote:
Jeff, in more than a few words: what changed? What happened? [If you need help,] ASK. And explain. It's a month out, there's time. Let people know. On 11/12/2023 3:21 PM, Jeffrey Brace wrote: > What changed is that in recent years people were bringing less and less food.... So Bill and I spend $200 out of our own pocket to buy subs.. People are not contributing money towards buying food and there are usually one or two people cooking the burgers and hot dogs every year. I want to make it simple.. I want it to be more fun than work. I'm not sure what you mean by *full kitchen* [it has] sinks, tables, refrigerators, microwaves, toaster ovens. We also have the outside grill setup. [grilling is] me by default ... I do all the shopping a few days ahead .. OK, Jeff, first of all, thanks for the work, and effort! And thanks for making it clear, what has happened (not happened) in recent years! It's certainly not fair for you, and a few, to work so hard. And to pay out of your own pockets, that's just not right. Thank you for that sacrifice! And thanks for explaining. It makes sense, what you describe. Now, we know the situation. People can make informed choices and considerations, and respond to these things. Jeff, that's your main concern, right? People aren't responding - not bringing food, paying their way, helping out. Now I hear you! I think, myself, catering would be a loss. And, too expensive, maybe too hard to plan. I think bring-a-plate has the advantage, if we each pitch in - now that we know. I mentioned our kitchen facilities, it's a rare benefit for a social club. They allow us to have people bring home-cooked plates and dishes, keep them for hours or a day, warm them up and serve them. and to grill on-site too. Home-cooked food is (or was) better food than catered and fast-food. I also think, sharing prepared food together, is part of the social experience we've had every year. That was my experience in years prior. It was my experience last year, among the foods people brought, I won't explain details. How can catering compare to that? Surprises about some food, expecting other foods - that's all part of the event. Food isn't the main reason I go to Festivus. But it's a thing. After Covid, I don't dine out that often, eat meals from other people. Maybe others do, but I'm old, old people have to be cautious, need I explain? And you know, Jeff - I looked back at last year's discussion, to see if these were known issues? Just to see if I'm confused? Get a clue, why people didn't bring so much? And my apologies, but none of these issues were posted in last year's Festivus discussion. You posted thanks, people posted thanks in response - all in two days after the event. No complaints, no issues. You Jeff posted "constructive criticism, tell me privately". As far as food to bring, the post was "optional", not required or mandatory. I saw last year's bring-to list - it was over a dozen people. But it included Jeff and two others, who posted they'd provide burgers, brauts, subs. The rest listed, was a few dishes but mostly snacks and sodas. However: in years past, people brought stuff without posting. In years past, there was more than enough food. But things change, changes aren't always clear to everyone. There's no fault here, Jeff - Covid happened, people got unsocial, new people, different habits about food. It's OK to say "this isn't working, here's why". Again: how would many of us know, if you didn't say so? And in a public way, so it's OK to talk about it? YOu don't have to do this alone, Jeff. Subs, pizzas? They are another matter. It's a lunch, a different class of eating. Such food doesn't "last", it's called fast food, right? Order on the spot for those present. Make sure to collect costs from them. I paid! Who didn't pay? That can be fixed. I guess charging per head in advance might be simpler. I paid what I was asked to pay; if it wasn't enough, I would have paid again, even to cover someone else.
So I vote for bring-a-dish, and grilling too if you can get more help, Pizza and subs, too. People have to step up, pay for things, bring more and better food, help *when asked to help*. These could still happen, I believe. Now we know! Some of us, like sharing special dishes. The rest, well, buy some prepared food. Just have to be organized about it, know what to expect. But - you know, other people may think otherwise. I'm old, I'm used to cooking, in a kitchen? With produce and meats and things? Maybe others, consume take-out and DoorDash all the time. Maybe Covid changed how people think about public and social dining. Maybe it's about handling money? I don't know. It's a public discussion, others can post their interests. As for labor, helping out - I wasn't asked. I'm old, I'm not running around physically. There's no shortage of (sorry, younger) people there who could help. But if I'm asked, I'll respond if I can. I'll grill outside in the cold, if no one else will. So I'll see what comes out of this discussion. It's better to talk about it, get some consensus. It's a collective social activity, right? We can sort it out. Regards Herb Johnson
I was only around for about 20 minutes last festivus - but I do feel there is a way to have both potluck & catering - one for lunch one for dinner, as Ian proposes. Perhaps I'm biased, since John's Cracker Barrel (no affiliation to the chain) was my suggestion for catering... and they DO have really good food... But catering at least one meal takes some burden off of those manning the grill without totally eliminating the friendlier vibe of everyone bringing & sharing homemade food. Just my three cents. On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 11:42 AM Ian Litchfield via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I have only been to one full Festivus since I am new blood. Last year I brought chips and donuts.
I agree it’s a good time for sharing with the community.
Maybe we cater some sandwiches for lunch and keep dinner to the community! I did enjoy the subs last year and thought it was a staple just due to my inexperience of the event.
I am willing to help with grilling stuff for dinner. I’ll bring a couple packs of Brats and dogs and sauerkraut. Does anyone else want to grab extra buns and/or additional sausages?
-Ian L.
On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 11:16 Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Yes, good input. Like many things it seems somewhere in the middle makes the most sense.
I would think that store or purchased lunch of hoagies makes sense (pizza is not optimal IMHO), with a dinner meal that is on the grill - hamburgers and hotdogs as per tradition. People should bring $ for this expense.
People should also be able to contribute by bringing snacks, drinks, desserts and various foods to share.
Going 100% purchased goes away from the community aspects of the group and then you fall into collecting cash and having to monitor freeloaders, which no one wants to do.
-andy
On Nov 13, 2023, at 8:23 AM, Douglas Crawford via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Good input, Herb. Jeff ran this by me, I thought it was worth considering and giving it a try. If, due to cost or other reasons, its not feasible, I'll volunteer for grill work this year and give the prior grillers a break.
And yes maybe we can do more to encourage more folks to bring a dish. We lost Jason Perkin's contribution - a huge hit! :-( Chris L- Wings are the bomb, if they aren't accounted for... well... the show must go on!
Jeff's working it out... lets see what he comes up with.
DC
On 11/12/2023 9:18 PM, Herbert Johnson via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Herbert Johnson wrote:
Jeff, in more than a few words: what changed? What happened? [If you need help,] ASK. And explain. It's a month out, there's time. Let people know. On 11/12/2023 3:21 PM, Jeffrey Brace wrote: > What changed is that in recent years people were bringing less and less food.... So Bill and I spend $200 out of our own pocket to buy subs.. People are not contributing money towards buying food and there are usually one or two people cooking the burgers and hot dogs every year. I want to make it simple.. I want it to be more fun than work. I'm not sure what you mean by *full kitchen* [it has] sinks, tables, refrigerators, microwaves, toaster ovens. We also have the outside grill setup. [grilling is] me by default ... I do all the shopping a few days ahead .. OK, Jeff, first of all, thanks for the work, and effort! And thanks for making it clear, what has happened (not happened) in recent years! It's certainly not fair for you, and a few, to work so hard. And to pay out of your own pockets, that's just not right. Thank you for that sacrifice! And thanks for explaining. It makes sense, what you describe. Now, we know the situation. People can make informed choices and considerations, and respond to these things. Jeff, that's your main concern, right? People aren't responding - not bringing food, paying their way, helping out. Now I hear you! I think, myself, catering would be a loss. And, too expensive, maybe too hard to plan. I think bring-a-plate has the advantage, if we each pitch in - now that we know. I mentioned our kitchen facilities, it's a rare benefit for a social club. They allow us to have people bring home-cooked plates and dishes, keep them for hours or a day, warm them up and serve them. and to grill on-site too. Home-cooked food is (or was) better food than catered and fast-food. I also think, sharing prepared food together, is part of the social experience we've had every year. That was my experience in years prior. It was my experience last year, among the foods people brought, I won't explain details. How can catering compare to that? Surprises about some food, expecting other foods - that's all part of the event. Food isn't the main reason I go to Festivus. But it's a thing. After Covid, I don't dine out that often, eat meals from other people. Maybe others do, but I'm old, old people have to be cautious, need I explain? And you know, Jeff - I looked back at last year's discussion, to see if these were known issues? Just to see if I'm confused? Get a clue, why people didn't bring so much? And my apologies, but none of these issues were posted in last year's Festivus discussion. You posted thanks, people posted thanks in response
all in two days after the event. No complaints, no issues. You Jeff posted "constructive criticism, tell me privately". As far as food to bring, the post was "optional", not required or mandatory.
I saw last year's bring-to list - it was over a dozen people. But it included Jeff and two others, who posted they'd provide burgers, brauts, subs. The rest listed, was a few dishes but mostly snacks and sodas. However: in years past, people brought stuff without posting. In years past, there was more than enough food. But things change, changes aren't always clear to everyone. There's no fault here, Jeff - Covid happened, people got unsocial, new people, different habits about food. It's OK to say "this isn't working, here's why". Again: how would many of us know, if you didn't say so? And in a public way, so it's OK to talk about it? YOu don't have to do this alone, Jeff. Subs, pizzas? They are another matter. It's a lunch, a different class of eating. Such food doesn't "last", it's called fast food, right? Order on the spot for those present. Make sure to collect costs from them. I paid! Who didn't pay? That can be fixed. I guess charging per head in advance might be simpler. I paid what I was asked to pay; if it wasn't enough, I would have paid again, even to cover someone else. ------------ So I vote for bring-a-dish, and grilling too if you can get more help, Pizza and subs, too. People have to step up, pay for things, bring more and better food, help *when asked to help*. These could still happen, I believe. Now we know! Some of us, like sharing special dishes. The rest, well, buy some prepared food. Just have to be organized about it, know what to expect. But - you know, other people may think otherwise. I'm old, I'm used to cooking, in a kitchen? With produce and meats and things? Maybe others, consume take-out and DoorDash all the time. Maybe Covid changed how people think about public and social dining. Maybe it's about handling money? I don't know. It's a public discussion, others can post their interests. As for labor, helping out - I wasn't asked. I'm old, I'm not running around physically. There's no shortage of (sorry, younger) people there who could help. But if I'm asked, I'll respond if I can. I'll grill outside in the cold, if no one else will. So I'll see what comes out of this discussion. It's better to talk about it, get some consensus. It's a collective social activity, right? We can sort it out. Regards Herb Johnson
These kinds of decisions should be made internally, .... ....but why not VCFed supply the core catered meal, publicize the menu, and then say if you want to bring something else, please RSVP so we can coordinate your donation to the event Bill On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 12:56 PM Thomas G via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I was only around for about 20 minutes last festivus - but I do feel there is a way to have both potluck & catering - one for lunch one for dinner, as Ian proposes.
Perhaps I'm biased, since John's Cracker Barrel (no affiliation to the chain) was my suggestion for catering... and they DO have really good food...
But catering at least one meal takes some burden off of those manning the grill without totally eliminating the friendlier vibe of everyone bringing & sharing homemade food.
Just my three cents.
On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 11:42 AM Ian Litchfield via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I have only been to one full Festivus since I am new blood. Last year I brought chips and donuts.
I agree it’s a good time for sharing with the community.
Maybe we cater some sandwiches for lunch and keep dinner to the community! I did enjoy the subs last year and thought it was a staple just due to my inexperience of the event.
I am willing to help with grilling stuff for dinner. I’ll bring a couple packs of Brats and dogs and sauerkraut. Does anyone else want to grab extra buns and/or additional sausages?
-Ian L.
On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 11:16 Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Yes, good input. Like many things it seems somewhere in the middle makes the most sense.
I would think that store or purchased lunch of hoagies makes sense (pizza is not optimal IMHO), with a dinner meal that is on the grill - hamburgers and hotdogs as per tradition. People should bring $ for this expense.
People should also be able to contribute by bringing snacks, drinks, desserts and various foods to share.
Going 100% purchased goes away from the community aspects of the group and then you fall into collecting cash and having to monitor freeloaders, which no one wants to do.
-andy
On Nov 13, 2023, at 8:23 AM, Douglas Crawford via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Good input, Herb. Jeff ran this by me, I thought it was worth considering and giving it a try. If, due to cost or other reasons, its not feasible, I'll volunteer for grill work this year and give the prior grillers a break.
And yes maybe we can do more to encourage more folks to bring a dish. We lost Jason Perkin's contribution - a huge hit! :-( Chris L- Wings are the bomb, if they aren't accounted for... well... the show must go on!
Jeff's working it out... lets see what he comes up with.
DC
On 11/12/2023 9:18 PM, Herbert Johnson via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Herbert Johnson wrote:
Jeff, in more than a few words: what changed? What happened? [If you need help,] ASK. And explain. It's a month out, there's time. Let people know. On 11/12/2023 3:21 PM, Jeffrey Brace wrote: > What changed is that in recent years people were bringing less and less food.... So Bill and I spend $200 out of our own pocket to buy subs.. People are not contributing money towards buying food and there are usually one or two people cooking the burgers and hot dogs every year. I want to make it simple.. I want it to be more fun than work. I'm not sure what you mean by *full kitchen* [it has] sinks, tables, refrigerators, microwaves, toaster ovens. We also have the outside grill setup. [grilling is] me by default ... I do all the shopping a few days ahead .. OK, Jeff, first of all, thanks for the work, and effort! And thanks for making it clear, what has happened (not happened) in recent years! It's certainly not fair for you, and a few, to work so hard. And to pay out of your own pockets, that's just not right. Thank you for that sacrifice! And thanks for explaining. It makes sense, what you describe. Now, we know the situation. People can make informed choices and considerations, and respond to these things. Jeff, that's your main concern, right? People aren't responding - not bringing food, paying their way, helping out. Now I hear you! I think, myself, catering would be a loss. And, too expensive, maybe too hard to plan. I think bring-a-plate has the advantage, if we each pitch in - now that we know. I mentioned our kitchen facilities, it's a rare benefit for a social club. They allow us to have people bring home-cooked plates and dishes, keep them for hours or a day, warm them up and serve them. and to grill on-site too. Home-cooked food is (or was) better food than catered and fast-food. I also think, sharing prepared food together, is part of the social experience we've had every year. That was my experience in years prior. It was my experience last year, among the foods people brought, I won't explain details. How can catering compare to that? Surprises about some food, expecting other foods - that's all part of the event. Food isn't the main reason I go to Festivus. But it's a thing. After Covid, I don't dine out that often, eat meals from other people. Maybe others do, but I'm old, old people have to be cautious, need I explain? And you know, Jeff - I looked back at last year's discussion, to see if these were known issues? Just to see if I'm confused? Get a clue, why people didn't bring so much? And my apologies, but none of these issues were posted in last year's Festivus discussion. You posted thanks, people posted thanks in response
all in two days after the event. No complaints, no issues. You Jeff posted "constructive criticism, tell me privately". As far as food to bring, the post was "optional", not required or mandatory.
I saw last year's bring-to list - it was over a dozen people. But it included Jeff and two others, who posted they'd provide burgers, brauts, subs. The rest listed, was a few dishes but mostly snacks and sodas. However: in years past, people brought stuff without posting. In years past, there was more than enough food. But things change, changes aren't always clear to everyone. There's no fault here, Jeff - Covid happened, people got unsocial, new people, different habits about food. It's OK to say "this isn't working, here's why". Again: how would many of us know, if you didn't say so? And in a public way, so it's OK to talk about it? YOu don't have to do this alone, Jeff. Subs, pizzas? They are another matter. It's a lunch, a different class of eating. Such food doesn't "last", it's called fast food, right? Order on the spot for those present. Make sure to collect costs from them. I paid! Who didn't pay? That can be fixed. I guess charging per head in advance might be simpler. I paid what I was asked to pay; if it wasn't enough, I would have paid again, even to cover someone else. ------------ So I vote for bring-a-dish, and grilling too if you can get more help, Pizza and subs, too. People have to step up, pay for things, bring more and better food, help *when asked to help*. These could still happen, I believe. Now we know! Some of us, like sharing special dishes. The rest, well, buy some prepared food. Just have to be organized about it, know what to expect. But - you know, other people may think otherwise. I'm old, I'm used to cooking, in a kitchen? With produce and meats and things? Maybe others, consume take-out and DoorDash all the time. Maybe Covid changed how people think about public and social dining. Maybe it's about handling money? I don't know. It's a public discussion, others can post their interests. As for labor, helping out - I wasn't asked. I'm old, I'm not running around physically. There's no shortage of (sorry, younger) people there who could help. But if I'm asked, I'll respond if I can. I'll grill outside in the cold, if no one else will. So I'll see what comes out of this discussion. It's better to talk about it, get some consensus. It's a collective social activity, right? We can sort it out. Regards Herb Johnson
InfoAge is an old military base... everyone should get C-Rations or an MRE for the group meal. 😁 Just kidding... personally, I prefer potluck style meals myself. Jeff Salzman On Mon, Nov 13, 2023, 1:04 PM Bill Degnan via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
These kinds of decisions should be made internally, ....
....but why not VCFed supply the core catered meal, publicize the menu, and then say if you want to bring something else, please RSVP so we can coordinate your donation to the event
Bill
On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 12:56 PM Thomas G via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I was only around for about 20 minutes last festivus - but I do feel there is a way to have both potluck & catering - one for lunch one for dinner, as Ian proposes.
Perhaps I'm biased, since John's Cracker Barrel (no affiliation to the chain) was my suggestion for catering... and they DO have really good food...
But catering at least one meal takes some burden off of those manning the grill without totally eliminating the friendlier vibe of everyone bringing & sharing homemade food.
Just my three cents.
On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 11:42 AM Ian Litchfield via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I have only been to one full Festivus since I am new blood. Last year I brought chips and donuts.
I agree it’s a good time for sharing with the community.
Maybe we cater some sandwiches for lunch and keep dinner to the community! I did enjoy the subs last year and thought it was a staple just due to my inexperience of the event.
I am willing to help with grilling stuff for dinner. I’ll bring a couple packs of Brats and dogs and sauerkraut. Does anyone else want to grab extra buns and/or additional sausages?
-Ian L.
On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 11:16 Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Yes, good input. Like many things it seems somewhere in the middle makes the most sense.
I would think that store or purchased lunch of hoagies makes sense (pizza is not optimal IMHO), with a dinner meal that is on the grill - hamburgers and hotdogs as per tradition. People should bring $ for this expense.
People should also be able to contribute by bringing snacks, drinks, desserts and various foods to share.
Going 100% purchased goes away from the community aspects of the group and then you fall into collecting cash and having to monitor freeloaders, which no one wants to do.
-andy
On Nov 13, 2023, at 8:23 AM, Douglas Crawford via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Good input, Herb. Jeff ran this by me, I thought it was worth considering and giving it a try. If, due to cost or other reasons, its not feasible, I'll volunteer for grill work this year and give the prior grillers a break.
And yes maybe we can do more to encourage more folks to bring a dish. We lost Jason Perkin's contribution - a huge hit! :-( Chris L- Wings are the bomb, if they aren't accounted for... well... the show must go on!
Jeff's working it out... lets see what he comes up with.
DC
On 11/12/2023 9:18 PM, Herbert Johnson via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
> Herbert Johnson wrote: > > Jeff, in more than a few words: what changed? What happened? [If you need help,] ASK. And explain. It's a month out, there's time. Let > people know. > On 11/12/2023 3:21 PM, Jeffrey Brace wrote: > > What changed is that in recent years people were bringing less and less food.... So Bill and I spend $200 out of our own pocket to buy subs.. > People are not contributing money towards buying food and there are usually one or two people cooking the burgers and hot dogs every year. I want to make it simple.. > I want it to be more fun than work. > I'm not sure what you mean by *full kitchen* [it has] sinks, tables, refrigerators, microwaves, toaster ovens. We also have the outside grill setup. [grilling is] me by default ... I do all the shopping a few days ahead .. OK, Jeff, first of all, thanks for the work, and effort! And thanks for making it clear, what has happened (not happened) in recent years! It's certainly not fair for you, and a few, to work so hard. And to pay out of your own pockets, that's just not right. Thank you for that sacrifice! And thanks for explaining. It makes sense, what you describe. Now, we know the situation. People can make informed choices and considerations, and respond to these things. Jeff, that's your main concern, right? People aren't responding - not bringing food, paying their way, helping out. Now I hear you! I think, myself, catering would be a loss. And, too expensive, maybe too hard to plan. I think bring-a-plate has the advantage, if we each pitch in - now that we know. I mentioned our kitchen facilities, it's a rare benefit for a social club. They allow us to have people bring home-cooked plates and dishes, keep them for hours or a day, warm them up and serve them. and to grill on-site too. Home-cooked food is (or was) better food than catered and fast-food. I also think, sharing prepared food together, is part of the social experience we've had every year. That was my experience in years prior. It was my experience last year, among the foods people brought, I won't explain details. How can catering compare to that? Surprises about some food, expecting other foods - that's all part of the event. Food isn't the main reason I go to Festivus. But it's a thing. After Covid, I don't dine out that often, eat meals from other people. Maybe others do, but I'm old, old people have to be cautious, need I explain? And you know, Jeff - I looked back at last year's discussion, to see if these were known issues? Just to see if I'm confused? Get a clue, why people didn't bring so much? And my apologies, but none of these issues were posted in last year's Festivus discussion. You posted thanks, people posted thanks in response
all in two days after the event. No complaints, no issues. You Jeff posted "constructive criticism, tell me privately". As far as food to bring, the post was "optional", not required or mandatory.
I saw last year's bring-to list - it was over a dozen people. But it included Jeff and two others, who posted they'd provide burgers, brauts, subs. The rest listed, was a few dishes but mostly snacks and sodas. However: in years past, people brought stuff without posting. In years past, there was more than enough food. But things change, changes aren't always clear to everyone. There's no fault here, Jeff - Covid happened, people got unsocial, new people, different habits about food. It's OK to say "this isn't working, here's why". Again: how would many of us know, if you didn't say so? And in a public way, so it's OK to talk about it? YOu don't have to do this alone, Jeff. Subs, pizzas? They are another matter. It's a lunch, a different class of eating. Such food doesn't "last", it's called fast food, right? Order on the spot for those present. Make sure to collect costs from them. I paid! Who didn't pay? That can be fixed. I guess charging per head in advance might be simpler. I paid what I was asked to pay; if it wasn't enough, I would have paid again, even to cover someone else. ------------ So I vote for bring-a-dish, and grilling too if you can get more help, Pizza and subs, too. People have to step up, pay for things, bring more and better food, help *when asked to help*. These could still happen, I believe. Now we know! Some of us, like sharing special dishes. The rest, well, buy some prepared food. Just have to be organized about it, know what to expect. But - you know, other people may think otherwise. I'm old, I'm used to cooking, in a kitchen? With produce and meats and things? Maybe others, consume take-out and DoorDash all the time. Maybe Covid changed how people think about public and social dining. Maybe it's about handling money? I don't know. It's a public discussion, others can post their interests. As for labor, helping out - I wasn't asked. I'm old, I'm not running around physically. There's no shortage of (sorry, younger) people there who could help. But if I'm asked, I'll respond if I can. I'll grill outside in the cold, if no one else will. So I'll see what comes out of this discussion. It's better to talk about it, get some consensus. It's a collective social activity, right? We can sort it out. Regards Herb Johnson
I have no pony im this race sjnce work precludes me from making it again this year (thursday night football is a demanding mistress) but as an idea, when my group gets together for our BBQ party, we have a signup sheet with the cooking time broken down into shifts and everyone picks a shift to cook. Its not rocket science making hamburgers and hot dogs, and the incoming person easily can pick up where the last shift left off with what is on the grill. We do two per shift. This way one or two people arent stuck there the whole time cooking and it's fair to everyone. Not sure the turnout for these things, but. Im sure you have enough people that if everyone takes a shift (the length based on how many you have) it becomes fair and enjoyable for everyone. It also is not a dudgery since you have a finite sliver of time then youre done. During the cooling we even often have a good time with the opportunity to talk to the other person manning the grill who might be someone we dont normally spend time with. Just an idea to consider. "Make no small plans. They have no power to stir men's blood and probably themselves will not be realized. Make big plans." - Daniel Burnham On Mon, Nov 13, 2023, 3:56 PM Jeff S via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
InfoAge is an old military base... everyone should get C-Rations or an MRE for the group meal. 😁
Just kidding... personally, I prefer potluck style meals myself.
Jeff Salzman
On Mon, Nov 13, 2023, 1:04 PM Bill Degnan via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
These kinds of decisions should be made internally, ....
....but why not VCFed supply the core catered meal, publicize the menu, and then say if you want to bring something else, please RSVP so we can coordinate your donation to the event
Bill
On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 12:56 PM Thomas G via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I was only around for about 20 minutes last festivus - but I do feel there is a way to have both potluck & catering - one for lunch one for dinner, as Ian proposes.
Perhaps I'm biased, since John's Cracker Barrel (no affiliation to the chain) was my suggestion for catering... and they DO have really good food...
But catering at least one meal takes some burden off of those manning the grill without totally eliminating the friendlier vibe of everyone bringing & sharing homemade food.
Just my three cents.
On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 11:42 AM Ian Litchfield via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I have only been to one full Festivus since I am new blood. Last year I brought chips and donuts.
I agree it’s a good time for sharing with the community.
Maybe we cater some sandwiches for lunch and keep dinner to the community! I did enjoy the subs last year and thought it was a staple just due to my inexperience of the event.
I am willing to help with grilling stuff for dinner. I’ll bring a couple packs of Brats and dogs and sauerkraut. Does anyone else want to grab extra buns and/or additional sausages?
-Ian L.
On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 11:16 Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Yes, good input. Like many things it seems somewhere in the middle makes the most sense.
I would think that store or purchased lunch of hoagies makes sense (pizza is not optimal IMHO), with a dinner meal that is on the grill - hamburgers and hotdogs as per tradition. People should bring $ for this expense.
People should also be able to contribute by bringing snacks, drinks, desserts and various foods to share.
Going 100% purchased goes away from the community aspects of the group and then you fall into collecting cash and having to monitor freeloaders, which no one wants to do.
-andy
On Nov 13, 2023, at 8:23 AM, Douglas Crawford via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Good input, Herb. Jeff ran this by me, I thought it was worth considering and giving it a try. If, due to cost or other reasons, its not feasible, I'll volunteer for grill work this year and give the prior grillers a break.
And yes maybe we can do more to encourage more folks to bring a dish. We lost Jason Perkin's contribution - a huge hit! :-( Chris L- Wings are the bomb, if they aren't accounted for... well... the show must go on!
Jeff's working it out... lets see what he comes up with.
DC
On 11/12/2023 9:18 PM, Herbert Johnson via vcf-midatlantic wrote: >> Herbert Johnson wrote: >> >> Jeff, in more than a few words: what changed? What happened? [If you need help,] ASK. And explain. It's a month out, there's time. Let >> people know. >> On 11/12/2023 3:21 PM, Jeffrey Brace wrote: > >> What changed is that in recent years people were bringing less and less food.... So Bill and I spend $200 out of our own pocket to buy subs.. >> People are not contributing money towards buying food and there are usually one or two people cooking the burgers and hot dogs every year. I want to make it simple.. >> I want it to be more fun than work. >> I'm not sure what you mean by *full kitchen* [it has] sinks, tables, refrigerators, microwaves, toaster ovens. We also have the outside grill setup. [grilling is] me by default ... I do all the shopping a few days ahead .. > OK, Jeff, first of all, thanks for the work, and effort! And thanks for making it clear, what has happened (not happened) in recent years! It's certainly not fair for you, and a few, to work so hard. And to pay out of your own pockets, that's just not right. Thank you for that sacrifice! And thanks for explaining. It makes sense, what you describe. > Now, we know the situation. People can make informed choices and considerations, and respond to these things. Jeff, that's your main concern, right? People aren't responding - not bringing food, paying their way, helping out. Now I hear you! > I think, myself, catering would be a loss. And, too expensive, maybe too hard to plan. I think bring-a-plate has the advantage, if we each pitch in - now that we know. > I mentioned our kitchen facilities, it's a rare benefit for a social club. They allow us to have people bring home-cooked plates and dishes, keep them for hours or a day, warm them up and serve them. and to grill on-site too. Home-cooked food is (or was) better food than catered and fast-food. > I also think, sharing prepared food together, is part of the social experience we've had every year. That was my experience in years prior. It was my experience last year, among the foods people brought, I won't explain details. How can catering compare to that? Surprises about some food, expecting other foods - that's all part of the event. > Food isn't the main reason I go to Festivus. But it's a thing. After Covid, I don't dine out that often, eat meals from other people. Maybe others do, but I'm old, old people have to be cautious, need I explain? > And you know, Jeff - I looked back at last year's discussion, to see if these were known issues? Just to see if I'm confused? Get a clue, why people didn't bring so much? > And my apologies, but none of these issues were posted in last year's Festivus discussion. You posted thanks, people posted thanks in response
all in two days after the event. No complaints, no issues. You Jeff posted "constructive criticism, tell me privately". As far as food to bring, the post was "optional", not required or mandatory.
> I saw last year's bring-to list - it was over a dozen people. But it included Jeff and two others, who posted they'd provide burgers, brauts, subs. The rest listed, was a few dishes but mostly snacks and sodas. However: in years past, people brought stuff without posting. In years past, there was more than enough food. > But things change, changes aren't always clear to everyone. > There's no fault here, Jeff - Covid happened, people got unsocial, new people, different habits about food. It's OK to say "this isn't working, here's why". Again: how would many of us know, if you didn't say so? And in a public way, so it's OK to talk about it? YOu don't have to do this alone, Jeff. > Subs, pizzas? They are another matter. It's a lunch, a different class of eating. Such food doesn't "last", it's called fast food, right? Order on the spot for those present. Make sure to collect costs from them. I paid! Who didn't pay? That can be fixed. I guess charging per head in advance might be simpler. I paid what I was asked to pay; if it wasn't enough, I would have paid again, even to cover someone else. > ------------ > So I vote for bring-a-dish, and grilling too if you can get more help, Pizza and subs, too. People have to step up, pay for things, bring more and better food, help *when asked to help*. These could still happen, I believe. Now we know! Some of us, like sharing special dishes. The rest, well, buy some prepared food. Just have to be organized about it, know what to expect. > But - you know, other people may think otherwise. I'm old, I'm used to cooking, in a kitchen? With produce and meats and things? Maybe others, consume take-out and DoorDash all the time. Maybe Covid changed how people think about public and social dining. Maybe it's about handling money? I don't know. > It's a public discussion, others can post their interests. > As for labor, helping out - I wasn't asked. I'm old, I'm not running around physically. There's no shortage of (sorry, younger) people there who could help. But if I'm asked, I'll respond if I can. I'll grill outside in the cold, if no one else will. > So I'll see what comes out of this discussion. It's better to talk about it, get some consensus. It's a collective social activity, right? We can sort it out. > Regards Herb Johnson
Hello!I have not been to this Festivus event before. Forgive me, as I don't think I have seen a flyer for this.. Few questions.. Is this held at InfoAge? If so, what building? I am thinking of bringing a few games of varying uniqueness .. If I come on Saturday morning and stay till late afternoon (like 5pm) is this OK? Are you looking for headcount of attendees? If so, is there a sign-up list? Again, thank you for any additional insight that a first-timer can benefit from. Brian On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 04:30:29 PM EST, Anthony Becker via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote: I have no pony im this race sjnce work precludes me from making it again this year (thursday night football is a demanding mistress) but as an idea, when my group gets together for our BBQ party, we have a signup sheet with the cooking time broken down into shifts and everyone picks a shift to cook. Its not rocket science making hamburgers and hot dogs, and the incoming person easily can pick up where the last shift left off with what is on the grill. We do two per shift. This way one or two people arent stuck there the whole time cooking and it's fair to everyone. Not sure the turnout for these things, but. Im sure you have enough people that if everyone takes a shift (the length based on how many you have) it becomes fair and enjoyable for everyone. It also is not a dudgery since you have a finite sliver of time then youre done. During the cooling we even often have a good time with the opportunity to talk to the other person manning the grill who might be someone we dont normally spend time with. Just an idea to consider. "Make no small plans. They have no power to stir men's blood and probably themselves will not be realized. Make big plans." - Daniel Burnham On Mon, Nov 13, 2023, 3:56 PM Jeff S via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
InfoAge is an old military base... everyone should get C-Rations or an MRE for the group meal. 😁
Just kidding... personally, I prefer potluck style meals myself.
Jeff Salzman
On Mon, Nov 13, 2023, 1:04 PM Bill Degnan via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
These kinds of decisions should be made internally, ....
....but why not VCFed supply the core catered meal, publicize the menu, and then say if you want to bring something else, please RSVP so we can coordinate your donation to the event
Bill
On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 12:56 PM Thomas G via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I was only around for about 20 minutes last festivus - but I do feel there is a way to have both potluck & catering - one for lunch one for dinner, as Ian proposes.
Perhaps I'm biased, since John's Cracker Barrel (no affiliation to the chain) was my suggestion for catering... and they DO have really good food...
But catering at least one meal takes some burden off of those manning the grill without totally eliminating the friendlier vibe of everyone bringing & sharing homemade food.
Just my three cents.
On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 11:42 AM Ian Litchfield via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I have only been to one full Festivus since I am new blood. Last year I brought chips and donuts.
I agree it’s a good time for sharing with the community.
Maybe we cater some sandwiches for lunch and keep dinner to the community! I did enjoy the subs last year and thought it was a staple just due to my inexperience of the event.
I am willing to help with grilling stuff for dinner. I’ll bring a couple packs of Brats and dogs and sauerkraut. Does anyone else want to grab extra buns and/or additional sausages?
-Ian L.
On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 11:16 Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Yes, good input. Like many things it seems somewhere in the middle makes the most sense.
I would think that store or purchased lunch of hoagies makes sense (pizza is not optimal IMHO), with a dinner meal that is on the grill - hamburgers and hotdogs as per tradition. People should bring $ for this expense.
People should also be able to contribute by bringing snacks, drinks, desserts and various foods to share.
Going 100% purchased goes away from the community aspects of the group and then you fall into collecting cash and having to monitor freeloaders, which no one wants to do.
-andy
On Nov 13, 2023, at 8:23 AM, Douglas Crawford via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Good input, Herb. Jeff ran this by me, I thought it was worth considering and giving it a try. If, due to cost or other reasons, its not feasible, I'll volunteer for grill work this year and give the prior grillers a break.
And yes maybe we can do more to encourage more folks to bring a dish. We lost Jason Perkin's contribution - a huge hit! :-( Chris L- Wings are the bomb, if they aren't accounted for... well... the show must go on!
Jeff's working it out... lets see what he comes up with.
DC
On 11/12/2023 9:18 PM, Herbert Johnson via vcf-midatlantic wrote: >> Herbert Johnson wrote: >> >> Jeff, in more than a few words: what changed? What happened? [If you need help,] ASK. And explain. It's a month out, there's time. Let >> people know. >> On 11/12/2023 3:21 PM, Jeffrey Brace wrote: > >> What changed is that in recent years people were bringing less and less food.... So Bill and I spend $200 out of our own pocket to buy subs.. >> People are not contributing money towards buying food and there are usually one or two people cooking the burgers and hot dogs every year. I want to make it simple.. >> I want it to be more fun than work. >> I'm not sure what you mean by *full kitchen* [it has] sinks, tables, refrigerators, microwaves, toaster ovens. We also have the outside grill setup. [grilling is] me by default ... I do all the shopping a few days ahead .. > OK, Jeff, first of all, thanks for the work, and effort! And thanks for making it clear, what has happened (not happened) in recent years! It's certainly not fair for you, and a few, to work so hard. And to pay out of your own pockets, that's just not right. Thank you for that sacrifice! And thanks for explaining. It makes sense, what you describe. > Now, we know the situation. People can make informed choices and considerations, and respond to these things. Jeff, that's your main concern, right? People aren't responding - not bringing food, paying their way, helping out. Now I hear you! > I think, myself, catering would be a loss. And, too expensive, maybe too hard to plan. I think bring-a-plate has the advantage, if we each pitch in - now that we know. > I mentioned our kitchen facilities, it's a rare benefit for a social club. They allow us to have people bring home-cooked plates and dishes, keep them for hours or a day, warm them up and serve them. and to grill on-site too. Home-cooked food is (or was) better food than catered and fast-food. > I also think, sharing prepared food together, is part of the social experience we've had every year. That was my experience in years prior. It was my experience last year, among the foods people brought, I won't explain details. How can catering compare to that? Surprises about some food, expecting other foods - that's all part of the event. > Food isn't the main reason I go to Festivus. But it's a thing. After Covid, I don't dine out that often, eat meals from other people. Maybe others do, but I'm old, old people have to be cautious, need I explain? > And you know, Jeff - I looked back at last year's discussion, to see if these were known issues? Just to see if I'm confused? Get a clue, why people didn't bring so much? > And my apologies, but none of these issues were posted in last year's Festivus discussion. You posted thanks, people posted thanks in response
all in two days after the event. No complaints, no issues. You Jeff posted "constructive criticism, tell me privately". As far as food to bring, the post was "optional", not required or mandatory.
> I saw last year's bring-to list - it was over a dozen people. But it included Jeff and two others, who posted they'd provide burgers, brauts, subs. The rest listed, was a few dishes but mostly snacks and sodas. However: in years past, people brought stuff without posting. In years past, there was more than enough food. > But things change, changes aren't always clear to everyone. > There's no fault here, Jeff - Covid happened, people got unsocial, new people, different habits about food. It's OK to say "this isn't working, here's why". Again: how would many of us know, if you didn't say so? And in a public way, so it's OK to talk about it? YOu don't have to do this alone, Jeff. > Subs, pizzas? They are another matter. It's a lunch, a different class of eating. Such food doesn't "last", it's called fast food, right? Order on the spot for those present. Make sure to collect costs from them. I paid! Who didn't pay? That can be fixed. I guess charging per head in advance might be simpler. I paid what I was asked to pay; if it wasn't enough, I would have paid again, even to cover someone else. > ------------ > So I vote for bring-a-dish, and grilling too if you can get more help, Pizza and subs, too. People have to step up, pay for things, bring more and better food, help *when asked to help*. These could still happen, I believe. Now we know! Some of us, like sharing special dishes. The rest, well, buy some prepared food. Just have to be organized about it, know what to expect. > But - you know, other people may think otherwise. I'm old, I'm used to cooking, in a kitchen? With produce and meats and things? Maybe others, consume take-out and DoorDash all the time. Maybe Covid changed how people think about public and social dining. Maybe it's about handling money? I don't know. > It's a public discussion, others can post their interests. > As for labor, helping out - I wasn't asked. I'm old, I'm not running around physically. There's no shortage of (sorry, younger) people there who could help. But if I'm asked, I'll respond if I can. I'll grill outside in the cold, if no one else will. > So I'll see what comes out of this discussion. It's better to talk about it, get some consensus. It's a collective social activity, right? We can sort it out. > Regards Herb Johnson
Good input, Herb. Jeff ran this by me, I thought it was worth considering and giving it a try. If, due to cost or other reasons, its not feasible, I'll volunteer for grill work this year and give the prior grillers a break.
Keep it simple keep it easy. Catering just removes a lot of headache. Streamlines the process. Click button, stuff happens. - Ethan
Beyond the normal Festivus potluck menu which includes burgers, dogs and wings, is there any coordination with respect to balance of dishes, avoiding duplicates, and managing dietary restrictions? I’ve seen some events where you can “sign up” to bring various things like cups, drinks, etc. Pasted some typical “pros & cons” below… Catering Pros: 1. Professionalism: Catering services provide a professional touch to the event. The food is usually well-presented, and the service is handled by trained staff. 2. Convenience: Hiring a caterer eliminates the need for individuals to prepare and bring their own dishes. This can be especially beneficial for larger events where coordinating homemade dishes might be challenging. 3. Variety: Caterers often offer a diverse menu with a wide range of options to suit different tastes and dietary preferences. 4. Quality: Professional caterers are experienced in preparing large quantities of food while maintaining quality. This can be crucial for ensuring that all attendees receive safe and delicious meals. Catering Cons: 1. Cost: Catering can be more expensive than a potluck-style gathering, especially for large events. Costs can include not only the food but also service fees, delivery charges, and gratuities. 2. Limited customization: While caterers offer a variety of menu options, there may be limitations on customization. This might be a drawback if you have specific dietary requirements or preferences. 3. Less personal touch: Catered events may lack the personal touch that comes with homemade dishes. For some occasions, this personal connection through shared dishes might be more desirable. Potluck-style Pros: (Everyone bringing food to share): 1. Cost-effective: Potlucks are generally more budget-friendly since the cost is distributed among the attendees. It also eliminates the need for a professional catering service. 2. Variety and customization: Potlucks offer a wide variety of dishes, and attendees can bring their favorite or specialty dishes, catering to different tastes and dietary needs. 3. Community building: Potlucks create a sense of community as people share their homemade creations. It encourages interaction and conversation among attendees. 4. Personal touch: Homemade dishes add a personal touch to the event, making it feel more intimate and friendly. Potluck-style Cons: 1. Logistical challenges: Coordinating a potluck can be logistically challenging, especially for larger events. Ensuring a balance of dishes, avoiding duplicates, and managing dietary restrictions can be complex. 2. Quality control: The quality of the food may vary, and there is a risk of inconsistencies in taste and presentation. 3. Allergen concerns: Potlucks can be challenging for attendees with allergies or dietary restrictions, as it may be difficult to guarantee the absence of specific allergens. 4. Ultimately, the choice between catering and a potluck depends on the specific needs and goals of the event, as well as the preferences of the organizer and attendees. On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 11:32 AM Ethan O'Toole via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Good input, Herb. Jeff ran this by me, I thought it was worth considering and giving it a try. If, due to cost or other reasons, its not feasible, I'll volunteer for grill work this year and give the prior grillers a break.
Keep it simple keep it easy. Catering just removes a lot of headache. Streamlines the process. Click button, stuff happens.
- Ethan
participants (14)
-
Andrew Diller -
Anthony Becker -
Bart Hirst -
Bill Degnan -
Brian L -
Christian Liendo -
Douglas Crawford -
Ethan O'Toole -
Herbert Johnson -
Ian Litchfield -
Jeff S -
Jeffrey Brace -
Sentrytv -
Thomas G