mcguire@neurotica.com has been my email address continuously since the summer of 1993.

Hey Dave, looks like we're pretty close in time: kdl@lion.com since 3-Jun-1993 Kelly

I thought a few folks might find this a bit humorous. ;-) cbnews.att.com!ncherry rutgers.edu!diane.uucp!ncherry :-) I used to be on the maps! -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies

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Eugene W2HX

Hello! That appears to be your first message here. Please introduce yourself.

I registered degnanco.com some time in Oct or Nov 1995, set up billdeg-at-degnanco.com then. It is still live today but it just forwards now to another account. Even older is my aol.com address from earlier in 1995, probably the spring, maybe late 1994 I don't remember. I also had an even older ICI work email that could be used to send Internet messages and a CompuServe account but only the aol.com account is still around from the mid 90's. The first Internet email I received was probably in 1993 or 94 via ICI's corporate email system (VAX). I think the sender was a company called Sales Technologies. I was doing a lot of Internet but not quite WWW communications with software back then. I printed emails when they were important back then! I may still have it someplace. My first email address was my IBM work email address, 1987, but I don't remember it other than it was in the IBM PROFs system. I don't know if one could send Internet email with it, I never asked. Thanks for your replies. Bill On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 1:58 PM, Michael Lee via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:

On 8/29/2016 10:01 AM, william degnan via vcf-midatlantic wrote:

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Hey, Anyone still operating actively an email address from before 1995 that one can send a message and receive a reply without turning on an old server, etc.

My daily e-mail is still the same, but originates a few days after 1995. It for The Dragon's Hoard BBS, running Major BBS with the Internet Gateway option transferred via UUCP dial up to start.

Domain Name: TDH.COM Creation Date: 1996-01-05T05:00:00Z

Aaaaaaand... it's dead.​ On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 2:28 PM, Dean Notarnicola <dnotarnicola@gmail.com> wrote:

My oldest is my CompuServe account created in 1983, but later converted to a​n SMTP account, I'm guessing sometime in the mid to latter part of the 80's. The domain remains but not sure if the account survived the purchase by AOL. 75116.1152@compuserve.com

On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 2:15 PM, william degnan via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:

...

I registered degnanco.com some time in Oct or Nov 1995, set up billdeg-at-degnanco.com then. It is still live today but it just forwards now to another account.

Even older is my aol.com address from earlier in 1995, probably the spring, maybe late 1994 I don't remember. I also had an even older ICI work email that could be used to send Internet messages and a CompuServe account but only the aol.com account is still around from the mid 90's.

The first Internet email I received was probably in 1993 or 94 via ICI's corporate email system (VAX). I think the sender was a company called Sales Technologies. I was doing a lot of Internet but not quite WWW communications with software back then. I printed emails when they were important back then! I may still have it someplace.

My first email address was my IBM work email address, 1987, but I don't remember it other than it was in the IBM PROFs system. I don't know if one could send Internet email with it, I never asked.

Thanks for your replies.

Bill

On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 1:58 PM, Michael Lee via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:

...

On 8/29/2016 10:01 AM, william degnan via vcf-midatlantic wrote:

...

Hey, Anyone still operating actively an email address from before 1995 that one can send a message and receive a reply without turning on an old server, etc.

My daily e-mail is still the same, but originates a few days after 1995. It for The Dragon's Hoard BBS, running Major BBS with the Internet Gateway option transferred via UUCP dial up to start.

Domain Name: TDH.COM Creation Date: 1996-01-05T05:00:00Z

Sadly, my pre-1998 e-mail addresses are no more. When the company I worked for was liquidated the DNS names were retained by the liquidator. It looks like the domain sss.co.uk is now owned by a someone who just uses it to catch miss-typed URL's Dave Wade

-----Original Message----- From: vcf-midatlantic [mailto:vcf-midatlantic- bounces@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org] On Behalf Of Michael Lee via vcf-midatlantic Sent: 29 August 2016 18:59 To: vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org Cc: Michael Lee <mikelee@tdh.com> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] oldest email address in the club

On 8/29/2016 10:01 AM, william degnan via vcf-midatlantic wrote:

...

Hey, Anyone still operating actively an email address from before 1995 that one can send a message and receive a reply without turning on an old server, etc.

My daily e-mail is still the same, but originates a few days after 1995. It for The Dragon's Hoard BBS, running Major BBS with the Internet Gateway option transferred via UUCP dial up to start.

Domain Name: TDH.COM Creation Date: 1996-01-05T05:00:00Z

I still have my MSN email address from the 1994 beta of MSN. Still use it too. My first was on CompuServe -- 70153,3367. Rich Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 29, 2016, at 2:21 PM, David Riley via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:

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On Aug 29, 2016, at 11:01 AM, william degnan via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:

Hey, Anyone still operating actively an email address from before 1995 that one can send a message and receive a reply without turning on an old server, etc.

In short, something more or less continuously in production daily with the same FQDN, etc?

My old AOL account from circa 1992 probably still exists, but I haven't used it in well over a decade.

Slightly related: I did have a usa.net <http://usa.net/> email account around the same time (it was the first "real" free email service I could find that allowed POP/IMAP access, unlike Hotmail). I wish I had kept better archives of that, since I have a number of shareware registration codes that were sent to that account; I have some printed out and stored (like you should), but I think some are lost to the ages. Alas. I think I have my old Mac with the Netscape Communicator account, but all it seems to have is the IMAP headers.

- Dave

So, did I miss why the OP was wanting this info? Is it just bragging rights, or is there a larger purpose? 1993 is impressive, I must say. I was really mad at myself for missing brain.com by a mere few months (didn't even dawn on me to buy a domain until late '95, and I think brain.com got snapped up in early '95. But, I was not even thinking about domains in '93. Jim

On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 8:26 PM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:

On 08/29/2016 08:24 PM, RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic wrote:

...

1993 is impressive, I must say. I was really mad at myself for missing brain.com by a mere few months (didn't even dawn on me to buy a domain until late '95, and I think brain.com got snapped up in early '95. But, I was not even thinking about domains in '93.

I was registering them for customers in 1993. (it was free then)

-Dave

-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

I was just asking (I made the OP)...I still have the file one needed to send to register a domain, then you put a capital "A" in the designated ACK space of the text file, so archaic back then. I registered a bunch of domains and sold them in 1995...then they started charging.

On 09/01/2016 06:36 PM, Jim Scheef via vcf-midatlantic wrote:

Yes! I vaguely remember that form. I believe you got the form by sending a carefully crafted email to an address at the InterNIC.

Not quite. The blank forms were available via FTP from ftp.internic.net. They were just text files; one pulled them up in an editor, filled in the blanks, and sent them to domreg@internic.net for processing. There were several forms for different purposes. The forms were parsed by shell scripts on a SunOS system in Virginia and requests were rewritten into a normalized form for partially-automated processing. Any errors in the parsing caused the form to be shunted off to a human (whom I dated very briefly, and later sharked from InterNIC and hired...how's that for name-dropping!) for manual processing.

The InterNIC became Network Solutions when Al Gore invented the commercial Internet - an event we all remember.

Yeah the Al Gore thing was the source of endless laughter. :) -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

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...

The InterNIC became Network Solutions when Al Gore invented the commercial Internet - an event we all remember.

Yeah the Al Gore thing was the source of endless laughter. :)

To be fair:

a) He never actually claimed to have invented the Internet

b) What he DID claim, which was totally correct, was that he was responsible in large part for the funding that brought the Internet to the public

Dave R. is right. Here is the Snopes.com explanation: http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp. Here is the transcript of Gore's full interview: http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/03/09/president.2000/transcript.....

On 09/08/2016 11:41 AM, David Riley wrote:

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...

The InterNIC became Network Solutions when Al Gore invented the commercial Internet - an event we all remember.

Yeah the Al Gore thing was the source of endless laughter. :)

To be fair:

a) He never actually claimed to have invented the Internet

b) What he DID claim, which was totally correct, was that he was responsible in large part for the funding that brought the Internet to the public

I disagree, very loudly. Having built and managed much of the infrastructure for one of the first public ISPs, I can categorically state that we did not receive one red cent from Al Gore, the federal government, or anyone else other than ourselves. We lived on ramen noodles and lots of couch-sharing, and built it all starting from a pair of used Sun-3 systems up to the third largest ISP on the planet. ZERO help from Al Gore. The funding that his efforts resulted in went primarily to the growth of backbone services, like the NSFnet backbone. This was good of course, and we were an NSFnet backbone node (ENSS 230, if that means anything to anyone else here), but it was well on its way and would've happened without any of that. And we were a fully functional public ISP long before it finished morphing into ANSnet on T3 lines. Let's not give Al Gore too much credit. The foundations were already laid and the infrastructure was already there, and the closer-to-the-user stuff was never touched by anything he did. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

On 09/08/2016 12:08 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote:

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b) What he DID claim, which was totally correct, was that he was responsible in large part for the funding that brought the Internet to the public

I disagree, very loudly.

There's nothing to "disagree" with. Whether or not Gore was instrumental in funding vital things like the backbone, or he wasn't. Facts are like math, not literature: you don't "believe" them or not; they just ARE.

Thank you evan, I'm familiar with the definition of the word "fact". YOU must now choose to believe in either the ramblings of a politician looking to take credit or the ramblings of someone who was actually there and did the work. Or you can ask around and find out for yourself, and weigh the information that you get by their sources and potential hidden agendas of those sources. You know, something that journalists typically know how to do.

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Having built and managed much of the infrastructure for one of the first public ISPs, I can categorically state that we did not receive one red cent from Al Gore, the federal government, or anyone else other than ourselves. We lived on ramen noodles and lots of couch-sharing, and built it all starting from a pair of used Sun-3 systems up to the third largest ISP on the planet. ZERO help from Al Gore.

The funding that his efforts resulted in went primarily to the growth of backbone services

...Without which ISPs would only have "nets", not "inter(s)". :(

WRONG. It was already there, and already running. And even before actual dedicated "backbones" came into play, the "inter(s)" were routing packets just fine. For YEARS. Do you research and get your facts straight before making such claims, and before pissing in my pool.

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it was well on its way and would've happened without any of that.

THAT is open to opinion. Would it have happened anyway without federal funding? I don't know.

You don't, but you can learn by reading this: It was already there. The EXPANSION of the backbone TO THAT DEGREE and AT THAT RATE may or may not have happened. It was already there, and it was already growing at a tremendous rate. But don't take MY word for it (having only done a lot of that very work myself), ask others who were also there. I can give you some contacts for your research. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

On 09/08/2016 02:24 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote:

Dave, I wasn't trying to start an argument.

Oh yes you certainly were. Starting out by trying to "learn me" the definition of the word "fact" has no place in either a friendly conversation nor a scholarly exchange of factual information.

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You know, something that journalists typically know how to do.

There's no need to insult me.

Oh, but there is! You started out by being condescending and insulting to me, to which I will respond in kind because I'm not there in person to do anything further. I was being generous enough to correct your erroneous information (which just HAD to be correct because you "saw it on the Internet") when you attacked me.

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Do you research and get your facts straight before making such claims, and before pissing in my pool.

I'm not pissing anywhere. I just think you're underestimating the importance of the machinations of federal government in the history of the ARPA/NSF/INTER-net(s).

I know you think that. You're wrong. I was there, I was involved. You were neither there, nor were you involved. Inexplicably, I'm driven to correct you further. OF COURSE the federal government was involved in ARPAnet. Just who do you think ARPA is a branch of? MILnet split off of the Internet (with one gateway system remaining) and allowed both to grow separately and independently. At that point, federal involvement in all things Internet essentially ceased, and it was driven by private enterprise. The NSFnet backbone morphed into ANSnet (after ANS, a partnership between IBM, MCI, and Merit, won the contract) and took over from there. (we eventually hired the Hostmaster of the MILnet NIC, too...look it up) The point that you're missing is that this backbone existed IN PARALLEL with the established internet (meaning "inter-network") links that were spun everywhere at that time, and had been for many years, mostly between colleges but many corporations as well. My company was one such corporation before it transitioned into a backbone end-node provider in 1994. The network was HUGE before that. Huge. Your bestowal of credit and accolades is misdirected. I can teach you all of this history if you want to learn it, but you have to be willing to listen.

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But don't take MY word for it (having only done a lot of that very work myself), ask others who were also there. I can give you some contacts for your research.

Dave, I can read.

Today I have my doubts!

Keep in mind that sometimes people who focus on the nuts and bolts don't see the big picture.

And sometimes people who cannot get through a day without proving to a mailing list that they're the end-all, be-all of computing history forget that there are people in this forum who actually DID this stuff and speak from personal experience. If and when you decide to actually research this stuff, this topic in particular, you'll be interviewing people like ME for these oral histories. As much as you're sure to find that distasteful. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

On 09/08/2016 02:52 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote:

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Dave, I wasn't trying to start an argument.

Oh yes you certainly were.

That's ridiculous.

Look at the list archives.

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Oh, but there is! You started out by being condescending and insulting to me, to which I will respond in kind because I'm not there in person to do anything further.

That's REALLY ridiculous.

Look at the list archives again.

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I know you think that. You're wrong. I was there, I was involved. You were neither there, nor were you involved.

Dave, by that logic nobody can ever again write about ENIAC, World War I, the Roman Empire, or cavemen, because we weren't there.

Once again: Wrong. But if you happen to come across someone who WAS there, you'd better be man enough to listen to them.

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Your bestowal of credit and accolades is misdirected. I can teach you all of this history if you want to learn it, but you have to be willing to listen.

You were an engineer at an early ISP. I get that and I respect it. It doesn't make you the leading authority on the early history of the Internet, and doesn't mean nobody else knows anything.

Actually, as far as my (rather large) corner of it, that's exactly what it means. Yes, I was an engineer at an early ISP, if you'd like to belittle my involvement to that point. One of the FIRST ISPs, which became one of the LARGEST. I also attended NANOG meetings and participated in the very first deployments of classless netblock routing, and deployed a network that spanned the entire country. Not too many people were there. And more importantly, YOU were not. I suggest you quit while you're ahead. I am exercising great restraint here. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

On 09/08/2016 03:02 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote:

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Dave, by that logic nobody can ever again write about ENIAC, World War I, the Roman Empire, or cavemen, because we weren't there.

Once again: Wrong. But if you happen to come across someone who WAS there, you'd better be man enough to listen to them.

You have my word, if I ever meet someone who personally fought in the Civil War or engineered stuff in the Stone Age...

I would hope so. Then bring 'em over so we can have a few beers! -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 11:27 AM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:

On 09/01/2016 06:36 PM, Jim Scheef via vcf-midatlantic wrote:

...

Yes! I vaguely remember that form. I believe you got the form by sending a carefully crafted email to an address at the InterNIC.

Not quite. The blank forms were available via FTP from ftp.internic.net. They were just text files; one pulled them up in an editor, filled in the blanks, and sent them to domreg@internic.net for processing. There were several forms for different purposes. The forms were parsed by shell scripts on a SunOS system in Virginia and requests were rewritten into a normalized form for partially-automated processing. Any errors in the parsing caused the form to be shunted off to a human (whom I dated very briefly, and later sharked from InterNIC and hired...how's that for name-dropping!) for manual processing.

...

The InterNIC became Network Solutions when Al Gore invented the commercial Internet - an event we all remember.

Yeah the Al Gore thing was the source of endless laughter. :)

-Dave

-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

You did not need to download an FTP form every time - I just saved the same original as a template, edited to the next domain to register, re-use. I still have a copy of at least one of these.

On Mon, 29 Aug 2016, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic wrote:

On 08/29/2016 08:24 PM, RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic wrote:

...

1993 is impressive, I must say. I was really mad at myself for missing brain.com by a mere few months (didn't even dawn on me to buy a domain until late '95, and I think brain.com got snapped up in early '95. But, I was not even thinking about domains in '93.

I was registering them for customers in 1993. (it was free then)

-Dave

I wanted a permanent email address, so I registered in the .US domain in 1992. It was free back then, and I never had to pay for until the last couple of years. I've had my psu.edu address since 1994, and I get to keep it. Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/