I'm also more of an Alps fan; my daily [desktop keybord] is an Apple Extended Keyboard II through an iMate ADB->USB adaptor.
Since I sell ADB keyboards, this phrase caught my eye. Let's see what such adapters are about, these days. I presume 1) none are in current commercial production but 2) there's some hobby projects old and new about it. And I found I was likely right. "ADB to USB Connector Adapter" on that auction site, shows Griffin imate, AlphaSmart as apparently old brands, resale price $70-$100+; and maybe "Wombat" as some hobby class product at $59-$79. A Web search seems to zero in on a hobby project apparently called "tmk". Further searching and hopping about the Web, reveals some person calling themself "tmk", in Japan. There's some kind of code to run on microcontroller chips like Atmel AVR and Cortex-M; on some kind of hardware design (not physically complicated, interfaces and a MPU chip I imagine). The trail I was able to find amounts to: https://github.com/tmk/ https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=14290.0 http://www.tmk-kbd.com/tmk_keyboard/editor/ Without a lecture from an old-guy; it's mostly a club around someone's microcontroller board for specific purposes. You have to join the conversation to figure out what you get, how to make it useful, see what's available now. All code is on github. The "sales" page seems to be an updated post in a keyboard discussion group (geekhack). More information is in various discussions. I don't think much of this kind of hobby-product-support, to be honest. I understand, this is how such things are done today. And of course - I may be wrong about "tmk" being a particularly popular old keyboard to USB solution. All I did was search the web cold, and see what Google came up with first. I'm not "in the club", so I know nothing. Maybe someone in that club, or another club, can reference other work. This is marginally within vintage-computing: this is about reuse of vintage tech. That's a fact: I sell ADB keyboards for current use, or disassembly, all the time. Otherwise I posted here what I found, to save my other know-nothing friends some of the time I spent on this subject this afternoon. Hope this is informative. Herb "click-clack" Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net
so never buy a AEK II that looks too used (if it’s yellowed, it was probably used a lot, if it’s still white someone stored it away.)
If some Mac item is yellowed, that's merely evidence it was exposed to light, and possibly heat. UV light (sunlight, old fluorescent) would accelerate yellowing. And of course in this case, the keyboard case may not be original to the keyboard PC board; or have been "retrobrited" which I never do. Other visual evidence may support use or other conditions, like "dirt" as described. I leave that evidence for discussion by more serious students of keyboards. So: is there a test whereby I can tap on some AEK II keyboard and tell someone "for X reasons I conclude this decades-old white keyboard was lightly used?" Or the converse, "for X reasons I conclude this keyboard is too worn for daily use)? I doubt impressions can be factualized; so I would not likely make such statements myself. I think this is still near-topic; still old keyboards in play. It's a thing! Google says so! ;) Herb -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net
Interesting feedback. It’s been many years since I looked up the price of iMates... when I got mine, they were out of production but still only $20 on eBay. Sorry to see they’re so expensive now. In any case, the ADB protocol isn’t overly difficult to implement with a microcontroller; after all, it was designed to be implemented on a 6800-series micro at 1 MHz (granted, that one wasn’t doing much else). There are a load of app notes from Microchip detailing some implementation specifics, many of which are portable. I’d be happy to point anyone interested at the various resources available. - Dave On Nov 26, 2018, at 13:44, Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I'm also more of an Alps fan; my daily [desktop keybord] is an Apple Extended Keyboard II through an iMate ADB->USB adaptor.
Since I sell ADB keyboards, this phrase caught my eye. Let's see what such adapters are about, these days. I presume 1) none are in current commercial production but 2) there's some hobby projects old and new about it. And I found I was likely right.
"ADB to USB Connector Adapter" on that auction site, shows Griffin imate, AlphaSmart as apparently old brands, resale price $70-$100+; and maybe "Wombat" as some hobby class product at $59-$79.
A Web search seems to zero in on a hobby project apparently called "tmk". Further searching and hopping about the Web, reveals some person calling themself "tmk", in Japan. There's some kind of code to run on microcontroller chips like Atmel AVR and Cortex-M; on some kind of hardware design (not physically complicated, interfaces and a MPU chip I imagine). The trail I was able to find amounts to:
https://github.com/tmk/ https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=14290.0 http://www.tmk-kbd.com/tmk_keyboard/editor/
Without a lecture from an old-guy; it's mostly a club around someone's microcontroller board for specific purposes. You have to join the conversation to figure out what you get, how to make it useful, see what's available now. All code is on github. The "sales" page seems to be an updated post in a keyboard discussion group (geekhack). More information is in various discussions.
I don't think much of this kind of hobby-product-support, to be honest. I understand, this is how such things are done today.
And of course - I may be wrong about "tmk" being a particularly popular old keyboard to USB solution. All I did was search the web cold, and see what Google came up with first. I'm not "in the club", so I know nothing. Maybe someone in that club, or another club, can reference other work.
This is marginally within vintage-computing: this is about reuse of vintage tech. That's a fact: I sell ADB keyboards for current use, or disassembly, all the time.
Otherwise I posted here what I found, to save my other know-nothing friends some of the time I spent on this subject this afternoon. Hope this is informative.
Herb "click-clack" Johnson
-- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net
On 2018-11-26 22:59, David Riley via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Interesting feedback. It’s been many years since I looked up the price of iMates... when I got mine, they were out of production but still only $20 on eBay. Sorry to see they’re so expensive now.
Yeah, I was shocked to see that as well. At $oldjob^4 we threw out probably a dozen of them. :(
On Nov 26, 2018, at 13:44, Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
"ADB to USB Connector Adapter" on that auction site, shows Griffin imate, AlphaSmart as apparently old brands, resale price $70-$100+; and maybe "Wombat" as some hobby class product at $59-$79.
Inspired by this thread, I just ordered one of the Wombats. Made by the same guy who does the Floppy Emu. I'm ok with gambling $49+S&H on something that'll probably work just fine. I do want to "daily drive" some of my old Apple keyboards like the AEK II and see what I really think of them. Assuming it'll fit on my keyboard tray side by side with the modern Magic Trackpad. -- Jameel Akari
I use the wombat on my se/30 for the opposite- I like the laptop style usb white keyboards from Apple. The wombat works great. I have a modern usb keyboard and mouse and don't have to deal with expensive and flaky adb devices anymore. http://dillernet.com/apple/2017/10/04/usb-for-adb-macintosh/ - andy diller
On Nov 27, 2018, at 12:34 AM, jakari via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 2018-11-26 22:59, David Riley via vcf-midatlantic wrote: Interesting feedback. It’s been many years since I looked up the price of iMates... when I got mine, they were out of production but still only $20 on eBay. Sorry to see they’re so expensive now.
Yeah, I was shocked to see that as well. At $oldjob^4 we threw out probably a dozen of them. :(
On Nov 26, 2018, at 13:44, Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
"ADB to USB Connector Adapter" on that auction site, shows Griffin imate, AlphaSmart as apparently old brands, resale price $70-$100+; and maybe "Wombat" as some hobby class product at $59-$79.
Inspired by this thread, I just ordered one of the Wombats. Made by the same guy who does the Floppy Emu. I'm ok with gambling $49+S&H on something that'll probably work just fine. I do want to "daily drive" some of my old Apple keyboards like the AEK II and see what I really think of them. Assuming it'll fit on my keyboard tray side by side with the modern Magic Trackpad.
-- Jameel Akari
I use the wombat on my se/30 ... - andy diller
Welcome to the list. Please introduce yourself, per our tradition: how did you find us, what's your background/interest in vintage computing, where do you live, etc. We already have to other Andy(s) here, so please keep using yiur surname in email signatures or at least out Andy D. so we don't confuse you with Andy Meyer or Andy Molloy. Thanks, - Evan K. (List Dad) On Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 9:16 AM Andy Diller via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org wrote:
I use the wombat on my se/30 for the opposite- I like the laptop style usb white keyboards from Apple. The wombat works great. I have a modern usb keyboard and mouse and don't have to deal with expensive and flaky adb devices anymore.
http://dillernet.com/apple/2017/10/04/usb-for-adb-macintosh/
- andy diller
On Nov 27, 2018, at 12:34 AM, jakari via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 2018-11-26 22:59, David Riley via vcf-midatlantic wrote: Interesting feedback. It’s been many years since I looked up the price of iMates... when I got mine, they were out of production but still only $20 on eBay. Sorry to see they’re so expensive now.
Yeah, I was shocked to see that as well. At $oldjob^4 we threw out probably a dozen of them. :(
On Nov 26, 2018, at 13:44, Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
"ADB to USB Connector Adapter" on that auction site, shows Griffin imate, AlphaSmart as apparently old brands, resale price $70-$100+; and maybe "Wombat" as some hobby class product at $59-$79.
Inspired by this thread, I just ordered one of the Wombats. Made by the same guy who does the Floppy Emu. I'm ok with gambling $49+S&H on something that'll probably work just fine. I do want to "daily drive" some of my old Apple keyboards like the AEK II and see what I really think of them. Assuming it'll fit on my keyboard tray side by side with the modern Magic Trackpad.
-- Jameel Akari
I too use the wombat, in both directions. However, I primarily use it with a usb rollup keyboard I bring with me when testing systems I’m picking up (many are sold sans keyboard and mouse, many others the keyboards don’t work!) or when troubleshooting systems on my workbench when the machines are in pieces and I’m cobbling together a working one from multiple machines. I can roll the keyboard out of my way easier than finding a spot for the big AEKII each time I disconnect it! But I too am a fan of the magic keyboard, both the extended and standard. (Mainly the extended) I love the iigs keyboard and the early AEKII as well, so those are the primary adb ones I Use on most all machines when using ADB. Tony Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 27, 2018, at 9:06 AM, Andy Diller via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I use the wombat on my se/30 for the opposite- I like the laptop style usb white keyboards from Apple. The wombat works great. I have a modern usb keyboard and mouse and don't have to deal with expensive and flaky adb devices anymore.
http://dillernet.com/apple/2017/10/04/usb-for-adb-macintosh/
- andy diller
On Nov 27, 2018, at 12:34 AM, jakari via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 2018-11-26 22:59, David Riley via vcf-midatlantic wrote: Interesting feedback. It’s been many years since I looked up the price of iMates... when I got mine, they were out of production but still only $20 on eBay. Sorry to see they’re so expensive now.
Yeah, I was shocked to see that as well. At $oldjob^4 we threw out probably a dozen of them. :(
On Nov 26, 2018, at 13:44, Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
"ADB to USB Connector Adapter" on that auction site, shows Griffin imate, AlphaSmart as apparently old brands, resale price $70-$100+; and maybe "Wombat" as some hobby class product at $59-$79.
Inspired by this thread, I just ordered one of the Wombats. Made by the same guy who does the Floppy Emu. I'm ok with gambling $49+S&H on something that'll probably work just fine. I do want to "daily drive" some of my old Apple keyboards like the AEK II and see what I really think of them. Assuming it'll fit on my keyboard tray side by side with the modern Magic Trackpad.
-- Jameel Akari
Wombat works great for me, using AEK II on a modern Mac.
On Nov 27, 2018, at 12:34 AM, jakari via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 2018-11-26 22:59, David Riley via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Interesting feedback. It’s been many years since I looked up the price of iMates... when I got mine, they were out of production but still only $20 on eBay. Sorry to see they’re so expensive now.
Yeah, I was shocked to see that as well. At $oldjob^4 we threw out probably a dozen of them. :(
On Nov 26, 2018, at 13:44, Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
"ADB to USB Connector Adapter" on that auction site, shows Griffin imate, AlphaSmart as apparently old brands, resale price $70-$100+; and maybe "Wombat" as some hobby class product at $59-$79.
Inspired by this thread, I just ordered one of the Wombats. Made by the same guy who does the Floppy Emu. I'm ok with gambling $49+S&H on something that'll probably work just fine. I do want to "daily drive" some of my old Apple keyboards like the AEK II and see what I really think of them. Assuming it'll fit on my keyboard tray side by side with the modern Magic Trackpad.
-- Jameel Akari
On 2018-11-27 09:19, Thomas Fuchs via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Wombat works great for me, using AEK II on a modern Mac.
Good to know, looking forward to it! And yeah, I might get a second one later, to hook up USB keyboards and mice to older Macs. Both directions are useful. I've enjoyed at least the concept of using vintage keyboards on new machines, in part because of the original topic here -- it's exhausting reading through all the reviews around various keyswitches and keycaps and LEDs and whatever. Might be time to bring my Type M to work again... -- Jameel Akari
On Nov 27, 2018, at 12:34 AM, jakari via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 2018-11-26 22:59, David Riley via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Interesting feedback. It’s been many years since I looked up the price of iMates... when I got mine, they were out of production but still only $20 on eBay. Sorry to see they’re so expensive now.
Yeah, I was shocked to see that as well. At $oldjob^4 we threw out probably a dozen of them. :(
On Nov 26, 2018, at 13:44, Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
"ADB to USB Connector Adapter" on that auction site, shows Griffin imate, AlphaSmart as apparently old brands, resale price $70-$100+; and maybe "Wombat" as some hobby class product at $59-$79.
Inspired by this thread, I just ordered one of the Wombats. Made by the same guy who does the Floppy Emu. I'm ok with gambling $49+S&H on something that'll probably work just fine. I do want to "daily drive" some of my old Apple keyboards like the AEK II and see what I really think of them. Assuming it'll fit on my keyboard tray side by side with the modern Magic Trackpad.
I always used the Griffen adapter. I have 2, both work well. Though they do, occasionally, drop a keystroke. On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 9:51 AM Jameel Akari via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 2018-11-27 09:19, Thomas Fuchs via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Wombat works great for me, using AEK II on a modern Mac.
Good to know, looking forward to it!
And yeah, I might get a second one later, to hook up USB keyboards and mice to older Macs. Both directions are useful.
I've enjoyed at least the concept of using vintage keyboards on new machines, in part because of the original topic here -- it's exhausting reading through all the reviews around various keyswitches and keycaps and LEDs and whatever.
Might be time to bring my Type M to work again...
-- Jameel Akari
On Nov 27, 2018, at 12:34 AM, jakari via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 2018-11-26 22:59, David Riley via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Interesting feedback. It’s been many years since I looked up the price of iMates... when I got mine, they were out of production but still only $20 on eBay. Sorry to see they’re so expensive now.
Yeah, I was shocked to see that as well. At $oldjob^4 we threw out probably a dozen of them. :(
On Nov 26, 2018, at 13:44, Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
"ADB to USB Connector Adapter" on that auction site, shows Griffin imate, AlphaSmart as apparently old brands, resale price $70-$100+; and maybe "Wombat" as some hobby class product at $59-$79.
Inspired by this thread, I just ordered one of the Wombats. Made by the same guy who does the Floppy Emu. I'm ok with gambling $49+S&H on something that'll probably work just fine. I do want to "daily drive" some of my old Apple keyboards like the AEK II and see what I really think of them. Assuming it'll fit on my keyboard tray side by side with the modern Magic Trackpad.
-- Jason Perkins 313 355 0085
There is at least a modern manufacturer of buckling spring keyboards a la IBM Model M. The Unicomp Ultra Classic Model M comes in a full size 104 key USB package for ~$100. Someone in my office has one. On Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 9:51 AM Jameel Akari via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org wrote:
On 2018-11-27 09:19, Thomas Fuchs via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Wombat works great for me, using AEK II on a modern Mac.
Good to know, looking forward to it!
And yeah, I might get a second one later, to hook up USB keyboards and mice to older Macs. Both directions are useful.
I've enjoyed at least the concept of using vintage keyboards on new machines, in part because of the original topic here -- it's exhausting reading through all the reviews around various keyswitches and keycaps and LEDs and whatever.
Might be time to bring my Type M to work again...
-- Jameel Akari
On Nov 27, 2018, at 12:34 AM, jakari via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 2018-11-26 22:59, David Riley via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Interesting feedback. It’s been many years since I looked up the price of iMates... when I got mine, they were out of production but still only $20 on eBay. Sorry to see they’re so expensive now.
Yeah, I was shocked to see that as well. At $oldjob^4 we threw out probably a dozen of them. :(
On Nov 26, 2018, at 13:44, Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
"ADB to USB Connector Adapter" on that auction site, shows Griffin imate, AlphaSmart as apparently old brands, resale price $70-$100+; and maybe "Wombat" as some hobby class product at $59-$79.
Inspired by this thread, I just ordered one of the Wombats. Made by the same guy who does the Floppy Emu. I'm ok with gambling $49+S&H on something that'll probably work just fine. I do want to "daily drive" some of my old Apple keyboards like the AEK II and see what I really think of them. Assuming it'll fit on my keyboard tray side by side with the modern Magic Trackpad.
I'm in the Unicomp crowd for my daily driver at work, and I've even given a few to family members who seem to enjoy them. However, after owning a few of the 104 Classic USB variations, I've discovered that the tolerances of the tooling aren't nearly what they should be. Compared to an authentic IBM, it's just not as well made. They still make a fine keyboard, but it isn't for everyone. I think I have a Cherry MX sampler somewhere, I'll see if I can find it before this weekend. -Alexander 'Z' Pierson On Tuesday, November 27, 2018, 11:33:59 PM EST, Mark Whittington via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote: There is at least a modern manufacturer of buckling spring keyboards a la IBM Model M. The Unicomp Ultra Classic Model M comes in a full size 104 key USB package for ~$100. Someone in my office has one. On Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 9:51 AM Jameel Akari via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org wrote:
On 2018-11-27 09:19, Thomas Fuchs via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Wombat works great for me, using AEK II on a modern Mac.
Good to know, looking forward to it!
And yeah, I might get a second one later, to hook up USB keyboards and mice to older Macs. Both directions are useful.
I've enjoyed at least the concept of using vintage keyboards on new machines, in part because of the original topic here -- it's exhausting reading through all the reviews around various keyswitches and keycaps and LEDs and whatever.
Might be time to bring my Type M to work again...
-- Jameel Akari
On Nov 27, 2018, at 12:34 AM, jakari via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 2018-11-26 22:59, David Riley via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Interesting feedback. It’s been many years since I looked up the price of iMates... when I got mine, they were out of production but still only $20 on eBay. Sorry to see they’re so expensive now.
Yeah, I was shocked to see that as well. At $oldjob^4 we threw out probably a dozen of them. :(
On Nov 26, 2018, at 13:44, Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
"ADB to USB Connector Adapter" on that auction site, shows Griffin imate, AlphaSmart as apparently old brands, resale price $70-$100+; and maybe "Wombat" as some hobby class product at $59-$79.
Inspired by this thread, I just ordered one of the Wombats. Made by the same guy who does the Floppy Emu. I'm ok with gambling $49+S&H on something that'll probably work just fine. I do want to "daily drive" some of my old Apple keyboards like the AEK II and see what I really think of them. Assuming it'll fit on my keyboard tray side by side with the modern Magic Trackpad.
I have a Unicomp Classic, and agree that the build quality is nothing like my original IBM/Lexmark manufactured Model-M's. What I've heard is that they're using many of the original tooling and so many of the parts tolerance issues are the result of 35 years of wear on the molds. My understanding is that the Ultra Classic, which is effectively their version of the smaller M2, has a better build quality because it's using newer molds. Which makes me wonder how much better they might be if they made the investment to retool the manufacturing line and used new molds with better tolerances. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-A-vRZth7SI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H70tkO1xUy8 I'm also a fan of the Cherry MX blues. On 11/28/18 5:15 AM, Alexander Pierson wrote:
I'm in the Unicomp crowd for my daily driver at work, and I've even given a few to family members who seem to enjoy them. However, after owning a few of the 104 Classic USB variations, I've discovered that the tolerances of the tooling aren't nearly what they should be. Compared to an authentic IBM, it's just not as well made. They still make a fine keyboard, but it isn't for everyone.
I think I have a Cherry MX sampler somewhere, I'll see if I can find it before this weekend.
-Alexander 'Z' Pierson
On Tuesday, November 27, 2018, 11:33:59 PM EST, Mark Whittington via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
There is at least a modern manufacturer of buckling spring keyboards a la IBM Model M. The Unicomp Ultra Classic Model M comes in a full size 104 key USB package for ~$100. Someone in my office has one.
On Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 9:51 AM Jameel Akari via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org wrote:
On 2018-11-27 09:19, Thomas Fuchs via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Wombat works great for me, using AEK II on a modern Mac.
Good to know, looking forward to it!
And yeah, I might get a second one later, to hook up USB keyboards and mice to older Macs. Both directions are useful.
I've enjoyed at least the concept of using vintage keyboards on new machines, in part because of the original topic here -- it's exhausting reading through all the reviews around various keyswitches and keycaps and LEDs and whatever.
Might be time to bring my Type M to work again...
-- Jameel Akari
On Nov 27, 2018, at 12:34 AM, jakari via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 2018-11-26 22:59, David Riley via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Interesting feedback. It’s been many years since I looked up the price of iMates... when I got mine, they were out of production but still only $20 on eBay. Sorry to see they’re so expensive now. Yeah, I was shocked to see that as well. At $oldjob^4 we threw out probably a dozen of them. :(
On Nov 26, 2018, at 13:44, Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
"ADB to USB Connector Adapter" on that auction site, shows Griffin imate, AlphaSmart as apparently old brands, resale price $70-$100+; and maybe "Wombat" as some hobby class product at $59-$79. Inspired by this thread, I just ordered one of the Wombats. Made by the same guy who does the Floppy Emu. I'm ok with gambling $49+S&H on something that'll probably work just fine. I do want to "daily drive" some of my old Apple keyboards like the AEK II and see what I really think of them. Assuming it'll fit on my keyboard tray side by side with the modern Magic Trackpad.
participants (12)
-
Alexander Pierson -
Andy Diller -
Chris Hendrickson -
David Riley -
Evan Koblentz -
Herb Johnson -
jakari -
Jameel Akari
-
Jason Perkins -
Mark Whittington -
Thomas Fuchs -
Tony Bogan