Today's workshop attendees were me, Jeff B., Bill Dromgoole, Bill I., Dean/Drew, Adam, and Tony. Bill and Bill continued working on Univac + EAI TR-20 projects respectively. Dean/Drew worked on a TRS-80. Adam tested one of his Amigas. Several of us (me, Dean, Drew, Adam) worked on museum-owned Amigas. We got a 500 working and then a 1000 working, both with workbench disks previously provided by Anthony/Bill of Guru Meditation renown. The 500 is in our museum temporarily. The 1000 will replace it when we get a suitably new-yellowed keyboard. Dean took home one of our keyboards and will try to retrobrite it. We along with Tony (and Google!) tested the museum's NeXT Station. It works pretty well. We'll display it soon as the next "artifact of the month".
what was the user/pass?
Don't know; we found a way to reset it using the instructions here: http://www.nextcomputers.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2650
On May 7, 2017, at 10:08 PM, william degnan via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
what was the user/pass?
The machine boots into UNIX. You can login as root with no pswd, add or change the password for root or any of the other 4 user accts on the machine. When you logout, it then boots directly into NextStep. Problem was the pswds from UNIX didn't translate to the nextstep login. Adam found a forum thread that gave the proper procedure for setting the NextStep login and password (since we had root access already it was not difficult once he knew what to do) Now we just need to figure how to switch the boot process so it loads directly into NextStep instead of having to log into and then out of the command line to get NextStep to boot. It works, we just want it to work with fewer steps now. We simply ran out of time to go further. If I missed any steps I'm sure Adam will fill them in but that's pretty much where things stand now and roughly how we got there. Tony
On 5/8/2017 11:35 AM, Tony Bogan via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
The machine boots into UNIX. You can login as root with no pswd, add or change the password for root or any of the other 4 user accts on the machine. When you logout, it then boots directly into NextStep. Problem was the pswds from UNIX didn't translate to the nextstep login.
Adam found a forum thread that gave the proper procedure for setting the NextStep login and password (since we had root access already it was not difficult once he knew what to do)
Now we just need to figure how to switch the boot process so it loads directly into NextStep instead of having to log into and then out of the command line to get NextStep to boot. It works, we just want it to work with fewer steps now. We simply ran out of time to go further.
If I missed any steps I'm sure Adam will fill them in but that's pretty much where things stand now and roughly how we got there.
Yeah, it is like nothing I have ever seen. It boots into what looks like single user mode (# prompt). All attempts to find a command to start the NeXTStep GUI failed (ala startx) and no help could be found on any forums. Eventually, on a lark, I tried typing login... which asked for a username. OK, we're home free, I thought. So I type in root and it logs me in as root (without a password).. to the command line. Doh! Foiled again! I then type exit to get back where I was and oddly the GUI boots. So the act of *exiting* the login starts the NeXTStep GUI. Leaving me rather perplexed about how to automate booting straight into NeXTStep. Getting the password was a matter of booting into single user mode, loading the NeXT password subsystem and *then* typing passwd at the commandline. Evan already posted the URL with graphic details. Just in case anyone else happens to run into a NeXT! Best wishes, -Adam
Here is mine http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=652 On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 4:16 PM, Adam Michlin via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On 5/8/2017 11:35 AM, Tony Bogan via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
The machine boots into UNIX. You can login as root with no pswd, add or change the password for root or any of the other 4 user accts on the machine. When you logout, it then boots directly into NextStep. Problem was the pswds from UNIX didn't translate to the nextstep login.
Adam found a forum thread that gave the proper procedure for setting the NextStep login and password (since we had root access already it was not difficult once he knew what to do)
Now we just need to figure how to switch the boot process so it loads directly into NextStep instead of having to log into and then out of the command line to get NextStep to boot. It works, we just want it to work with fewer steps now. We simply ran out of time to go further.
If I missed any steps I'm sure Adam will fill them in but that's pretty much where things stand now and roughly how we got there.
Yeah, it is like nothing I have ever seen.
It boots into what looks like single user mode (# prompt). All attempts to find a command to start the NeXTStep GUI failed (ala startx) and no help could be found on any forums. Eventually, on a lark, I tried typing login... which asked for a username.
OK, we're home free, I thought. So I type in root and it logs me in as root (without a password).. to the command line. Doh! Foiled again! I then type exit to get back where I was and oddly the GUI boots.
So the act of *exiting* the login starts the NeXTStep GUI. Leaving me rather perplexed about how to automate booting straight into NeXTStep.
Getting the password was a matter of booting into single user mode, loading the NeXT password subsystem and *then* typing passwd at the commandline. Evan already posted the URL with graphic details. Just in case anyone else happens to run into a NeXT!
Best wishes,
-Adam
On 05/08/2017 04:16 PM, Adam Michlin via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
The machine boots into UNIX. You can login as root with no pswd, add or change the password for root or any of the other 4 user accts on the machine. When you logout, it then boots directly into NextStep. Problem was the pswds from UNIX didn't translate to the nextstep login.
Adam found a forum thread that gave the proper procedure for setting the NextStep login and password (since we had root access already it was not difficult once he knew what to do)
Now we just need to figure how to switch the boot process so it loads directly into NextStep instead of having to log into and then out of the command line to get NextStep to boot. It works, we just want it to work with fewer steps now. We simply ran out of time to go further.
If I missed any steps I'm sure Adam will fill them in but that's pretty much where things stand now and roughly how we got there.
Yeah, it is like nothing I have ever seen.
At that level, it's bog-standard 4.3BSD UNIX in nearly every way. (with a MACH kernel underneath, of course)
It boots into what looks like single user mode (# prompt). All attempts to find a command to start the NeXTStep GUI failed (ala startx) and no help could be found on any forums. Eventually, on a lark, I tried typing login... which asked for a username.
That is in fact the single-user mode shell. The reason "startx" didn't work is that NeXTSTEP's GUI isn't X. Typing "login" will run /bin/login, which is a standard UNIX component which gets spawned attached to a tty (physical or pseudo) to process a login. That's not at all what you wanted to do there.
OK, we're home free, I thought. So I type in root and it logs me in as root (without a password).. to the command line. Doh! Foiled again! I then type exit to get back where I was and oddly the GUI boots.
That's expected behavior from /bin/login.
So the act of *exiting* the login starts the NeXTStep GUI. Leaving me rather perplexed about how to automate booting straight into NeXTStep.
The end action that happened there was that you exited single-user mode, and normal system startup picked up from there. One of the biggest NeXTisms is that it uses netinfo, which is pure bletcherous vomit and one of the worst ideas to ever hit the UNIX world, to manage what is normally on any civilized system a bunch of simple, foolproof, reliable text files. You have to dump out the passwd database from netinfo (if memory serves, "nidump passwd .") redirecting it to a file, edit that file to fix whatever is needed, and then load it back into netinfo with "niload passwd .", taking redirected input from the edited file. Apple was stupid enough to carry netinfo through into MacOS X, but they wised up and ditched it as of 10.5. But man did it cause pain up until that point. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On 05/08/2017 07:22 PM, william degnan via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
At that level, it's bog-standard 4.3BSD UNIX in nearly every way. (with a MACH kernel underneath, of course)
Dave - compared with SGI UNIX, which do you prefer? Roughly comparing same date versions, not the latest SGI.
I adminned them both for a very long time; I can't say I have much of a preference. One is just about as bad as the other as far as porting software to it in the "all the world's a VAX" era. That hasn't gotten much better in the "all the world's a PC running Linux" era, though the meteoric ascent of ARM9 is improving that somewhat, teaching these kids that software really does need to be portable. But also, one was just about as good as the other for being reliable, usable, manageable, and predictable, and for being UNIX. (pretty much the same thing) SGI's compilers were always better, and for a server with serious I/O requirements the big hairy balls of an Origin 2000 just couldn't be beat in those days. (decidedly nontrivial to beat nowadays too, actually) NeXT never had a server offering, and while I used workstations (like everyone else), I was managing a datacenter full of servers, not workstations. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
SGI's compilers were always better, and for a server with serious I/O requirements the big hairy balls of an Origin 2000 just couldn't be beat in those days. (decidedly nontrivial to beat nowadays too, actually) NeXT never had a server offering, and while I used workstations (like everyone else), I was managing a datacenter full of servers, not workstations.
I actually worked on those. Before the computer history museum was housed in that building, it belonged to SGI and I did Origion 2000 and Onyx2 repair training. It was a great class and we went to a VR fighter arcade for graduation. I really miss those times.
On 05/09/2017 06:42 AM, Christian Liendo wrote:
SGI's compilers were always better, and for a server with serious I/O requirements the big hairy balls of an Origin 2000 just couldn't be beat in those days. (decidedly nontrivial to beat nowadays too, actually) NeXT never had a server offering, and while I used workstations (like everyone else), I was managing a datacenter full of servers, not workstations.
I actually worked on those. Before the computer history museum was housed in that building, it belonged to SGI and I did Origion 2000 and Onyx2 repair training. It was a great class and we went to a VR fighter arcade for graduation. I really miss those times.
Very cool! I bet working on those machines in that capacity was awesome. I ordered and adminned a very early Origin 2000, we were led to believe it was one of the first few sold, while at Digex. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On 5/8/2017 6:39 PM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
It boots into what looks like single user mode (# prompt). All attempts to find a command to start the NeXTStep GUI failed (ala startx) and no help could be found on any forums. Eventually, on a lark, I tried typing login... which asked for a username.
That is in fact the single-user mode shell. The reason "startx" didn't work is that NeXTSTEP's GUI isn't X. Typing "login" will run /bin/login, which is a standard UNIX component which gets spawned attached to a tty (physical or pseudo) to process a login. That's not at all what you wanted to do there.
Yeah, I knew it wasn't startx, but this still begs the question of what *do* you type to go in the NeXTStep GUI?
OK, we're home free, I thought. So I type in root and it logs me in as root (without a password).. to the command line. Doh! Foiled again! I then type exit to get back where I was and oddly the GUI boots.
That's expected behavior from /bin/login.
So the act of *exiting* the login starts the NeXTStep GUI. Leaving me rather perplexed about how to automate booting straight into NeXTStep.
The end action that happened there was that you exited single-user mode, and normal system startup picked up from there.
One of the biggest NeXTisms is that it uses netinfo, which is pure bletcherous vomit and one of the worst ideas to ever hit the UNIX world, to manage what is normally on any civilized system a bunch of simple, foolproof, reliable text files. You have to dump out the passwd database from netinfo (if memory serves, "nidump passwd .") redirecting it to a file, edit that file to fix whatever is needed, and then load it back into netinfo with "niload passwd .", taking redirected input from the edited file.
Apple was stupid enough to carry netinfo through into MacOS X, but they wised up and ditched it as of 10.5. But man did it cause pain up until that point.
Yep, I left out the part where I read way too much information about netinfo. I happily missed that era of Mac OS X. ;) I don't have the machine to test, but it sounds like you are telling me that just typing exit should get it to go into NeXTStep and the login was incidental. Which makes sense to me. But this still leaves the question of how to get it to automatically boot into NeXTStep. Thanks, -Adam
On 05/08/2017 08:26 PM, Adam Michlin via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Yeah, I knew it wasn't startx, but this still begs the question of what *do* you type to go in the NeXTStep GUI?
I've been racking my brain to remember that, and I just cannot, I'm sorry.
Yep, I left out the part where I read way too much information about netinfo. I happily missed that era of Mac OS X. ;)
Lucky man.
I don't have the machine to test, but it sounds like you are telling me that just typing exit should get it to go into NeXTStep and the login was incidental. Which makes sense to me.
Yes.
But this still leaves the question of how to get it to automatically boot into NeXTStep.
I've never seen one that didn't just boot into NeXTSTEP. Dead NVRAM? Or is it actually booting up into single-user mode by default? in which case simply hitting ^D should get you past that, but it should do that automatically. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 10:36 PM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On 05/08/2017 08:26 PM, Adam Michlin via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Yeah, I knew it wasn't startx, but this still begs the question of what *do* you type to go in the NeXTStep GUI?
I've been racking my brain to remember that, and I just cannot, I'm sorry.
I could be wrong but my guess is...
cd /LocalAps ./cubxwindow ?? But who has a Next that does not boot into the GUI? Maybe yor box is the domain host server that is not intended to be a stand alone workstation and thus does not want to go into the GUI. I'd check to see if you have a rclocal file that is suppressing cubxwindow somehow. It's not the default to do that. Bill
All right, I'm really digging deep, but I thought there was a text prompt that you could enable that was something like: Type control-d to do a normal startup or enter root password for single user mode and it then waited there for a predetermined time then resumed booting to NextSTEP if you did nothing. Mind you, that could just be the old Tandy Xenix prompt and I'm misremembering the actual steps.
I've never seen one that didn't just boot into NeXTSTEP. Dead NVRAM? > Or is it actually booting up into single-user mode by default? in which case simply hitting ^D should get you past that, but it should do that automatically.
Many/most UNIX implementations do something along those lines. -Dave On 05/09/2017 04:31 PM, Kelly Leavitt wrote:
All right, I'm really digging deep, but I thought there was a text prompt that you could enable that was something like:
Type control-d to do a normal startup or enter root password for single user mode
and it then waited there for a predetermined time then resumed booting to NextSTEP if you did nothing.
Mind you, that could just be the old Tandy Xenix prompt and I'm misremembering the actual steps.
I've never seen one that didn't just boot into NeXTSTEP. Dead NVRAM? Or is it actually booting up into single-user mode by default? in which case simply hitting ^D should get you past that, but it should do that automatically.
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
participants (8)
-
Adam Michlin -
Christian Liendo -
Dave McGuire -
Evan Koblentz -
Evan Koblentz -
Kelly Leavitt -
Tony Bogan -
william degnan