VCF East 2021: The World of IBM
Hi Everyone, As you know, Dean, I and a few other people are working on what we hope to be the largest exhibit in the history of VCF: The World of IBM. This is in celebration of the 40th anniversary of the IBM PC. There are three components: 1. IBM branded products 2. x86 clones 3. Products that run x86 code, but aren't natively x86 - either through hardware or software (so, for example, an '030 Mac IIcx running SoftPC - which we don't currently have). We call this x86 on !x86 (read as x86 on not x86) Dean, Dean's son Drew, and I are spearheading the IBM branded section. We have most of the PC/XT/AT era covered, but could use more variety in the PS/2 area. You can offer to loan a computer to us (I'll link you in on our internal spreadsheet so you know what we've already covered) or you can do an entire table yourself. We're especially looking for someone to run an OS/2 exhibit (we have a massive OS/2 collection in the warehouse that we've been itching to put on display since we acquired it). Bill Inderrieden is spearheading the clone exhibit to honor the legacy of the PC clone. This topic alone could fill two rooms, so we're not going for any kind of completion here. Ideas that we'd love people to consider in terms of exhibits: Early Dell Compaq The Boring Grey Boxes (Not So Boring) The Luggables Tandy The Weird Ones The Ones You've Never Heard Of MS-DOS Throughout the Ages Windowing Systems that Aren't Windows Windows (pre 95) Unix on x86 (Xenix et. al) Early Linux Your Idea Here! The weirder the better and we're even going to have an informal contest for the most incompatible PC compatible (Tandy need not apply... that's just not fair!). x86 on !x86, is being handled by Jason Perkins. This is my personal favorite category where anything goes as long as it ultimately runs x86 somehow some way. We'll have an informal competition for the most gratuitously obnoxious execution of x86 code (the slower the better) and maybe even compete to see who can come up with the silliest, craziest, slowest way to run original x86 Doom. So how can you help? We still have limited space for a full exhibit - contact me if you want a full table and are willing to staff it throughout the event. You can also help by loaning computers, for example we'd love to borrow an Atari PC1 to add to our "Major companies you may not have known made x86 PCs" - DEC and Commodore already being represented - exhibit. You can offer to staff the exhibit, either full time (required only if you have a table) or part time to relieve the full time staff (which we can pre schedule so you have plenty of time to explore the event otherwise - volunteer for only a few hours or more!). If you'd like to help in any way, just send me a private email and we will get you to the right person. -Adam
"3. Products that run x86 code, but aren't natively x86 - either through hardware or software (so, for example, an '030 Mac IIcx running SoftPC - which we don't currently have). We call this x86 on !x86 (read as x86 on not x86)" That could also include the Commodore Amiga running PC-Task. I did a lot of my WordPerfect for DOS activity on that emulation platform. On Fri, Aug 27, 2021, 7:31 AM Adam Michlin via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Hi Everyone,
As you know, Dean, I and a few other people are working on what we hope to be the largest exhibit in the history of VCF: The World of IBM. This is in celebration of the 40th anniversary of the IBM PC.
Yep! Absolutely! And I believe there is a product for the Atari ST. I also know SoftPC was a thing on NeXT. The more merrier, the weirder the merrier! On Fri, Aug 27, 2021 at 7:57 AM Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
"3. Products that run x86 code, but aren't natively x86 - either through hardware or software (so, for example, an '030 Mac IIcx running SoftPC - which we don't currently have). We call this x86 on !x86 (read as x86 on not x86)"
That could also include the Commodore Amiga running PC-Task. I did a lot of my WordPerfect for DOS activity on that emulation platform.
On Fri, Aug 27, 2021, 7:31 AM Adam Michlin via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Hi Everyone,
As you know, Dean, I and a few other people are working on what we hope to be the largest exhibit in the history of VCF: The World of IBM. This is in celebration of the 40th anniversary of the IBM PC.
I can't remember what the Atari PC Emulator is called but I am sure I have a copy somewhere if you need one. It runs DOS 3.3 quite happily, if slowly. There were also add-in boards with 8086 and 80286 CPUs which got round the slowness at a price. Dave
-----Original Message----- From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces@lists.vcfed.org> On Behalf Of Adam Michlin via vcf-midatlantic Sent: 27 August 2021 13:03 To: jsalzman@gmail.com; vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Cc: Adam Michlin <adam.michlin@vcfed.org> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] VCF East 2021: The World of IBM
Yep! Absolutely!
And I believe there is a product for the Atari ST. I also know SoftPC was a thing on NeXT. The more merrier, the weirder the merrier!
On Fri, Aug 27, 2021 at 7:57 AM Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic <vcf- midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
"3. Products that run x86 code, but aren't natively x86 - either through hardware or software (so, for example, an '030 Mac IIcx running SoftPC - which we don't currently have). We call this x86 on !x86 (read as x86 on not x86)"
That could also include the Commodore Amiga running PC-Task. I did a lot of my WordPerfect for DOS activity on that emulation platform.
On Fri, Aug 27, 2021, 7:31 AM Adam Michlin via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Hi Everyone,
As you know, Dean, I and a few other people are working on what we hope to be the largest exhibit in the history of VCF: The World of IBM. This is in celebration of the 40th anniversary of the IBM PC.
PC-Ditto is what I have for the ST Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 27, 2021, at 8:09 AM, dave.g4ugm--- via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I can't remember what the Atari PC Emulator is called but I am sure I have a copy somewhere if you need one. It runs DOS 3.3 quite happily, if slowly. There were also add-in boards with 8086 and 80286 CPUs which got round the slowness at a price.
Dave
-----Original Message----- From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces@lists.vcfed.org> On Behalf Of Adam Michlin via vcf-midatlantic Sent: 27 August 2021 13:03 To: jsalzman@gmail.com; vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> Cc: Adam Michlin <adam.michlin@vcfed.org> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] VCF East 2021: The World of IBM
Yep! Absolutely!
And I believe there is a product for the Atari ST. I also know SoftPC was a thing on NeXT. The more merrier, the weirder the merrier!
On Fri, Aug 27, 2021 at 7:57 AM Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic <vcf- midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
"3. Products that run x86 code, but aren't natively x86 - either through hardware or software (so, for example, an '030 Mac IIcx running SoftPC - which we don't currently have). We call this x86 on !x86 (read as x86 on not x86)"
That could also include the Commodore Amiga running PC-Task. I did a lot of my WordPerfect for DOS activity on that emulation platform.
On Fri, Aug 27, 2021, 7:31 AM Adam Michlin via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Hi Everyone,
As you know, Dean, I and a few other people are working on what we hope to be the largest exhibit in the history of VCF: The World of IBM. This is in celebration of the 40th anniversary of the IBM PC.
PC-Ditto is what I have for the ST
Woah, never heard of that. Do you have the software or the hardware/software version? https://www.atarimagazines.com/startv4n12/pcditto2.html - Ethan
On 8/27/21 7:57 AM, Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
"3. Products that run x86 code, but aren't natively x86 - either through hardware or software (so, for example, an '030 Mac IIcx running SoftPC - which we don't currently have). We call this x86 on !x86 (read as x86 on not x86)"
That could also include the Commodore Amiga running PC-Task. I did a lot of my WordPerfect for DOS activity on that emulation platform.
Slightly off topic but I recall running a 386 laptop with DOS Box, running CP/M so I could run the Hercules Mainframe Emulator for my Assembly Language class. Back on subject, I ran the DOS emulator on my Atari ST to run DOS programs. That's more inline with what you are thinking of. :-) -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
Yep. My first PC was an XT clone, but I did all my Turbo Pascal programming on SoftPC on my Mac IIcx. So this is a topic near and dear to my heart. What you describe with DOS Box->CP/M etc. is similar to what we're hoping for with the x86 on !x86 exhibit. The weirder the chain, the better! On Fri, Aug 27, 2021 at 8:44 AM Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 8/27/21 7:57 AM, Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
"3. Products that run x86 code, but aren't natively x86 - either through hardware or software (so, for example, an '030 Mac IIcx running SoftPC - which we don't currently have). We call this x86 on !x86 (read as x86 on not x86)"
That could also include the Commodore Amiga running PC-Task. I did a lot of my WordPerfect for DOS activity on that emulation platform.
Slightly off topic but I recall running a 386 laptop with DOS Box, running CP/M so I could run the Hercules Mainframe Emulator for my Assembly Language class.
Back on subject, I ran the DOS emulator on my Atari ST to run DOS programs. That's more inline with what you are thinking of. :-)
-- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
Now I wish I knew what the manufacturer of an old retail PC system was that I once had a chance to fool around with. My neighbor back in the 80s worked a route for the local convenience store chain when they were also doing the video rental business in store. They used a custom shaped metal computer box that was mostly rectangular in shape, but with a wedged front, containing an embedded 80x20 (or 40x20) character LCD screen. It was designed to allow the clerk to scan video tapes using the attached barcode wand, and then process rental transactions. My neighbor let me play with one of the units at home for a while. It had an attachable 3.5" floppy drive and keyboard. After using the software he gave me, I discovered it was basically a PC running DOS, along with some custom software for the rental business. I didn't have much software to play with. I just tinkered with DOS, and used the TYPE command to look at the system's data files. But it was my first exposure, in hindsight, to what would be custom purposed PC compatibles. It was neat, but at the time, I was rocking my Amiga 500 as my main computer. :😎. However, I would LOVE to have one of those units in my collection today. On Fri, Aug 27, 2021 at 9:23 AM Adam Michlin via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Yep. My first PC was an XT clone, but I did all my Turbo Pascal programming on SoftPC on my Mac IIcx. So this is a topic near and dear to my heart.
What you describe with DOS Box->CP/M etc. is similar to what we're hoping for with the x86 on !x86 exhibit. The weirder the chain, the better!
My neighbor back in the 80s worked a route for the local convenience store chain when they were also doing the video rental business in store. They used a custom shaped metal computer box that was mostly rectangular in shape, but with a wedged front, containing an embedded 80x20 (or 40x20) character LCD screen.
Not too long ago I picked up a 35mm movie projector (like from a theater.) After looking into all the things I need to make it go, I started digging into the audio hardware. There are three digital standards of encoding digital audio on motion pictures. One is Dolbu Digital, which optically reads what looks like a QR oode printed between sprocket holes. Another is Sony SDDS which reads optical digital data left of the sprocket holes and on the right of the film. Finally there is DTS. DTS just has a time code dot pattern and serial number. From what I read, the decoder box uses CDs or DVDs that contain the audio. From what I have read the discs are just MS-DOS boot CDs that contain the executable that checks the serial number when it goes by and then chases the time code dot pattern with the however many channel digital sound. I guess these were used up until 2012. I don't have any DTS stuff yet. Can't get the Dolby Digital stuff I have working yet. Was surprised to hear it was MS-DOS and existed in the market that late. - Ethan
On Friday, August 27, 2021, 10:36:32 AM EDT, Ethan O'Toole via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
That could also include the Commodore Amiga running PC-Task. I did a lot of my WordPerfect for DOS activity on that emulation platform.
There was also the crazy Amiga Bridgeboards!
I have some Amigas kicking around but don't own a bridgeboard.
And the Sun PCI PC thing.
And the DOS-73 board for the UNIX PC. BLS
On Fri, Aug 27, 2021 at 10:36 AM Ethan O'Toole via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
And the Sun PCI PC thing.
I have an older S-bus SunPC Accelerator DX. I haven't tried using it yet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SunPCi#/media/File:SunPC_Accelerator_DX.jpg -ethan
On Fri, Aug 27, 2021 at 7:58 AM Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
"3. Products that run x86 code, but aren't natively x86 - either through hardware or software (so, for example, an '030 Mac IIcx running SoftPC - which we don't currently have). We call this x86 on !x86 (read as x86 on not x86)"
That could also include the Commodore Amiga running PC-Task. I did a lot of my WordPerfect for DOS activity on that emulation platform.
I think it was PC-Task, but there was a soft x86 emulator that supported ISA devices attached through the GG2 Bus+/GoldenGate Bridgecard. I got a report from a user that he was able to control an FM Tuner card with a DOS app with no x86 in sight. Someone else got an EPROM programmer with a proprietary ISA card working similarly. As long as the ISA card doesn't use DMA (there's no DMA engine present and the DMA pins are N.C.), it has a good chance of working. I'd be happy to assist if someone was going that route. -ethan
I have a Commodore PC-40 III that works, but no hard drive and can boot from floppy. I don't have any software for it. You can borrow it, but would need to find software for it. On Fri, Aug 27, 2021 at 7:31 AM Adam Michlin via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Hi Everyone,
As you know, Dean, I and a few other people are working on what we hope to be the largest exhibit in the history of VCF: The World of IBM. This is in celebration of the 40th anniversary of the IBM PC.
There are three components:
1. IBM branded products 2. x86 clones 3. Products that run x86 code, but aren't natively x86 - either through hardware or software (so, for example, an '030 Mac IIcx running SoftPC - which we don't currently have). We call this x86 on !x86 (read as x86 on not x86)
Dean, Dean's son Drew, and I are spearheading the IBM branded section. We have most of the PC/XT/AT era covered, but could use more variety in the PS/2 area. You can offer to loan a computer to us (I'll link you in on our internal spreadsheet so you know what we've already covered) or you can do an entire table yourself. We're especially looking for someone to run an OS/2 exhibit (we have a massive OS/2 collection in the warehouse that we've been itching to put on display since we acquired it).
Bill Inderrieden is spearheading the clone exhibit to honor the legacy of the PC clone. This topic alone could fill two rooms, so we're not going for any kind of completion here. Ideas that we'd love people to consider in terms of exhibits:
Early Dell Compaq The Boring Grey Boxes (Not So Boring) The Luggables Tandy The Weird Ones The Ones You've Never Heard Of MS-DOS Throughout the Ages Windowing Systems that Aren't Windows Windows (pre 95) Unix on x86 (Xenix et. al) Early Linux Your Idea Here!
The weirder the better and we're even going to have an informal contest for the most incompatible PC compatible (Tandy need not apply... that's just not fair!).
x86 on !x86, is being handled by Jason Perkins. This is my personal favorite category where anything goes as long as it ultimately runs x86 somehow some way. We'll have an informal competition for the most gratuitously obnoxious execution of x86 code (the slower the better) and maybe even compete to see who can come up with the silliest, craziest, slowest way to run original x86 Doom.
So how can you help?
We still have limited space for a full exhibit - contact me if you want a full table and are willing to staff it throughout the event.
You can also help by loaning computers, for example we'd love to borrow an Atari PC1 to add to our "Major companies you may not have known made x86 PCs" - DEC and Commodore already being represented - exhibit.
You can offer to staff the exhibit, either full time (required only if you have a table) or part time to relieve the full time staff (which we can pre schedule so you have plenty of time to explore the event otherwise - volunteer for only a few hours or more!).
If you'd like to help in any way, just send me a private email and we will get you to the right person.
-Adam
On Fri, Aug 27, 2021 at 11:54 AM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I have a Commodore PC-40 III that works...
Have you checked it lately? Mine is inoperative due to NiCd battery leakage.
... but no hard drive
Those XT-IDE drives can be hard to find. Cheers, -ethan
On Fri, 27 Aug 2021, Adam Michlin via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Hi Everyone,
As you know, Dean, I and a few other people are working on what we hope to be the largest exhibit in the history of VCF: The World of IBM. This is in celebration of the 40th anniversary of the IBM PC.
We have most of the PC/XT/AT era covered, but could use more variety in the PS/2 area. You can offer to loan a computer to us (I'll link you in on our internal spreadsheet so you know what we've already covered) or you can do an entire table yourself. We're especially looking for someone to run an OS/2 exhibit (we have a massive OS/2 collection in the warehouse that we've been itching to put on display since we acquired it).
When I did OS/2 on PS/2 a couple years ago, I had a 100% fatality rate on the PS/2s :) (Proprietary hard disk interface... thanks, IBM.) That said I'd be willing to take a look at what I've got and see what shows signs of life. I'll get back to you on that later this weekend. I had hoped to have a PC-XT/286 (5162) up and running for this, but I'm still chasing a memory+logic problem so that's probably not going to make it in time. It is running PhoenixBIOS now with a later 3rd-party disk controller, which I think both say a lot about PC compatibility. Also, I wish I had a Sun PC/PCi to loan to this effort. -- Jameel Akari
On Fri, Aug 27, 2021 at 7:30 AM Adam Michlin via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
1. IBM branded products 2. x86 clones 3. Products that run x86 code, but aren't natively x86 - either through hardware or software (so, for example, an '030 Mac IIcx running SoftPC - which we don't currently have). We call this x86 on !x86 (read as x86 on not x86)
I would enjoy seeing a Sidecar on an Amiga 1000. I never had one, didn't want one at the time, but it's such a crazy thing to hang off of an 68000. -ethan
Somebody on Facebook right now has an expansion board for an A500 That is a XT (V20) based. Sent from: My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device.
On Aug 27, 2021, at 2:00 PM, Ethan Dicks via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On Fri, Aug 27, 2021 at 7:30 AM Adam Michlin via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
1. IBM branded products 2. x86 clones 3. Products that run x86 code, but aren't natively x86 - either through hardware or software (so, for example, an '030 Mac IIcx running SoftPC - which we don't currently have). We call this x86 on !x86 (read as x86 on not x86)
I would enjoy seeing a Sidecar on an Amiga 1000. I never had one, didn't want one at the time, but it's such a crazy thing to hang off of an 68000.
-ethan
participants (11)
-
Adam Michlin -
Brian L. Stuart -
dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com -
Ethan Dicks -
Ethan O'Toole -
Jameel Akari -
Jeffrey Brace -
jsalzman＠gmail.com -
Neil Cherry -
Randy Kindig -
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