Hey everyone, As announced a couple of weeks ago: we need a PC for the VCFed BBS. Some requirements: - It should be a PC that's already fully working, we don't want to get some junk and have to fix it up. - It should NOT be a tower: we prefer a mini- or micro-ATX - All it will ever run is one or two DOS programs. In fact, you'll save us time/effort if you pre-install MS-DOS 6.22 on it. - Mobo should be maxed-out with the most memory that 6.22 can handle. - The more quiet and energy-efficient, the better. - SSD > HDD - We'll attach a traditional dial-up modem or two, so it should have (serial?) ports for this. (Big ol' telephony card not wanted.) Who can donate something to meet these requirements?
I am sure the spirit of what you're asking for is not really a maxed-out RAM (64mb in the case of DOS 6.22) but enough to get the job done. DOS 6.22 running a vintage one model BBS would be fine with 2 Mb RAM. Its more important that HIMEM.SYS is turned on so that the RAM is made available to the OS whatever amt is loaded into the system. I may not be able to get up there for the next workshop but I am happy to supply a system if you want to ship it or someone pick it up on their way to the workshop (I live in Landenberg). I have at least two systems running 6.22 now and I use this OS as my tweener box, dual boot, with Win 2000. While I am at it I can put image disk and a 5 1/4" drive on there and you can use the system also for disk imaging. You may be able to do all of this locally however. There has to be an old box iin IXR or nearby one can build on site next Sunday. DOS 6.22 comes with new Windows 3.1 software if you happen to have a copy in the warehouse. Win 3.1 is plentiful. What BBS software is running? The program software setup instructions should tell you what RAM you need. certainly anything over 8Mb would be overkill. I am in North Carolina at the moment heading south to VCF SE, should arrive around dinner time I guess. Bill On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 9:05 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Hey everyone,
As announced a couple of weeks ago: we need a PC for the VCFed BBS.
Some requirements: - It should be a PC that's already fully working, we don't want to get some junk and have to fix it up. - It should NOT be a tower: we prefer a mini- or micro-ATX - All it will ever run is one or two DOS programs. In fact, you'll save us time/effort if you pre-install MS-DOS 6.22 on it. - Mobo should be maxed-out with the most memory that 6.22 can handle. - The more quiet and energy-efficient, the better. - SSD > HDD - We'll attach a traditional dial-up modem or two, so it should have (serial?) ports for this. (Big ol' telephony card not wanted.)
Who can donate something to meet these requirements?
I have a Compaq Deskpro "pizza box" with Win 98 on it, and it has two serial ports. (It's hard to find serial ports on computers anymore). I'll see if it'll boot up and let you know how that goes. If it works, and you want it, I'm close to the museum and can drop off anytime. Bill Dudley Jackson, NJ This email is free of malware because I run Linux. On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 10:26 AM, william degnan via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
I am sure the spirit of what you're asking for is not really a maxed-out RAM (64mb in the case of DOS 6.22) but enough to get the job done.
DOS 6.22 running a vintage one model BBS would be fine with 2 Mb RAM. Its more important that HIMEM.SYS is turned on so that the RAM is made available to the OS whatever amt is loaded into the system. I may not be able to get up there for the next workshop but I am happy to supply a system if you want to ship it or someone pick it up on their way to the workshop (I live in Landenberg). I have at least two systems running 6.22 now and I use this OS as my tweener box, dual boot, with Win 2000. While I am at it I can put image disk and a 5 1/4" drive on there and you can use the system also for disk imaging.
You may be able to do all of this locally however. There has to be an old box iin IXR or nearby one can build on site next Sunday. DOS 6.22 comes with new Windows 3.1 software if you happen to have a copy in the warehouse. Win 3.1 is plentiful.
What BBS software is running? The program software setup instructions should tell you what RAM you need. certainly anything over 8Mb would be overkill.
I am in North Carolina at the moment heading south to VCF SE, should arrive around dinner time I guess.
Bill
On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 9:05 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Hey everyone,
As announced a couple of weeks ago: we need a PC for the VCFed BBS.
Some requirements: - It should be a PC that's already fully working, we don't want to get some junk and have to fix it up. - It should NOT be a tower: we prefer a mini- or micro-ATX - All it will ever run is one or two DOS programs. In fact, you'll save us time/effort if you pre-install MS-DOS 6.22 on it. - Mobo should be maxed-out with the most memory that 6.22 can handle. - The more quiet and energy-efficient, the better. - SSD > HDD - We'll attach a traditional dial-up modem or two, so it should have (serial?) ports for this. (Big ol' telephony card not wanted.)
Who can donate something to meet these requirements?
I have a Compaq Deskpro "pizza box" with Win 98 on it, and it has two serial ports.
Yes please. I like that option because it meets an important need AND would look good in our rack. (Hey, that's important!) For everyone else: Bill Dudley has been on a roll! He helped us a ton lately with the tablet project and now this.
Second that! Thanks, Bill! On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
I have a Compaq Deskpro "pizza box" with Win 98 on it, and it has two serial ports.
Yes please. I like that option because it meets an important need AND would look good in our rack. (Hey, that's important!)
For everyone else: Bill Dudley has been on a roll! He helped us a ton lately with the tablet project and now this.
Third that! Nice work Bill! On 4/26/2017 11:35 AM, Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Second that! Thanks, Bill!
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
I have a Compaq Deskpro "pizza box" with Win 98 on it, and it has two serial ports.
Yes please. I like that option because it meets an important need AND would look good in our rack. (Hey, that's important!)
For everyone else: Bill Dudley has been on a roll! He helped us a ton lately with the tablet project and now this.
If you could get hold of a 486SX, and get hold of a copy of TBBS 2.2 or later and the other add ons, you could run a BBS on a single computer that can handle 64 or maybe 128 inbound connections at once. You could have a rack mount modem box (USRobotics MP/16 maybe) and then tie all the other lines to a terminal server that can terminate telnet and SSH to serial (Opengear, cyclades, Livingston/Lucent Portmaster) into other connections? TBBS uses buffered Digiboards and the like to get all the serial connections. The downside to TBBS is since it internally task switches, door games that aren't written for TBBS won't work. But the positive side is, it's frigging amazing that a 486SX can run that many lines without lagging out like a Desqview/386 Sysop (remember those people? Ugh) C|Net on the Amiga might also be able to run a bunch but you would need a A3000 I think, or maybe a A2000 w/ accelerator? I am not sure but I thought someone told me they used those strange SCSI to serial boxes (Digi had one) as the multiport serial adapter. Kudos to Jason Scott for having Phil Becker in the BBS documentary. I never knew that many people knew about it, I thought everyone was all about the MajorBBS galactiboxes (was never a giant MajorBBS fan personally.)
If you could get hold of a....
Thanks for your ideas. Our plan is already set. We're going to run MajorBBS on bare-metal DOS. I can't fathom it ever needing more than two connections at once. The BBS is for demo'ing to museum visitors and an occasional outside connection. Others can still connect via telnet.
Thanks for your ideas. Our plan is already set. We're going to run MajorBBS on bare-metal DOS. I can't fathom it ever needing more than two connections at once. The BBS is for demo'ing to museum visitors and an occasional outside connection. Others can still connect via telnet.
No worries! I forsee a return of more BBSes as nostalgia kicks in.
Thank you Jameel and Degnan. Sounds like Bill Dudley's system is the best choice for us.
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Thank you Jameel and Degnan. Sounds like Bill Dudley's system is the best choice for us.
No problem. Didn't know it was going in a rack, but I don't have anything "natively" rackmount that would be quiet or especially low-power. -- Jameel Akari
Anyone know of a DOS 6.22 image that installs from a CDROM? This would obviously boot into something else, like linux, and then install DOS. Otherwise, it's a real pagent for me to make dos diskettes and install them to this pizza box. Right now is't booting WinXP, but has a password on it that I don't know, so to use the WinXP install to make floppies, I'd have to use a Linux password fixer disk first. Or install linux on the thing, and use *that* to make floppies. Stupid, right? Thanks, Bill Dudley This email is free of malware because I run Linux. On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 11:53 AM, Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Agreed!
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 11:38 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Thank you Jameel and Degnan. Sounds like Bill Dudley's system is the best choice for us.
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017, William Dudley via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Anyone know of a DOS 6.22 image that installs from a CDROM?
http://www.allbootdisks.com/download/iso.html came up, but I have no idea how legit they are. Otherwise, http://www.freedos.org/download/ might get you in the right direction. A minimal GRUB bootloader might be able to do this if you roll your own. -- Jameel Akari
Otherwise, http://www.freedos.org/download/ might get you in the right direction.
Interesting idea -- we need real MS-DOS on the machine, but perhaps FreeDOS could be used to make the floppies.
Allbootdisks has only diskette images. They have advertising links camoflaged to look like useful links. Also http://bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm is floppy images only. Yes, live Linux CD is an option. I'm just going ahead and installing Xubuntu on it, only takes a few minutes. Then I get to see if the floppy drive in this thing even works. The CDROM drive is a laptop drive. Seems to work OK. Bill This email is free of malware because I run Linux. On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 12:30 PM, Jameel Akari <jakari@bithose.com> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017, William Dudley via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Anyone know of a DOS 6.22 image that installs from a CDROM?
http://www.allbootdisks.com/download/iso.html came up, but I have no idea how legit they are.
Otherwise, http://www.freedos.org/download/ might get you in the right direction.
A minimal GRUB bootloader might be able to do this if you roll your own.
-- Jameel Akari
I have DRDOS 7.something on 3 1/2 diskettes, but I'm sure your BBS would throw a fit if you tried to run on that. Bill This email is free of malware because I run Linux. On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 12:39 PM, William Dudley <wfdudley@gmail.com> wrote:
Allbootdisks has only diskette images. They have advertising links camoflaged to look like useful links.
Also http://bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm is floppy images only.
Yes, live Linux CD is an option. I'm just going ahead and installing Xubuntu on it, only takes a few minutes. Then I get to see if the floppy drive in this thing even works.
The CDROM drive is a laptop drive. Seems to work OK.
Bill
This email is free of malware because I run Linux.
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 12:30 PM, Jameel Akari <jakari@bithose.com> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017, William Dudley via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Anyone know of a DOS 6.22 image that installs from a CDROM?
http://www.allbootdisks.com/download/iso.html came up, but I have no idea how legit they are.
Otherwise, http://www.freedos.org/download/ might get you in the right direction.
A minimal GRUB bootloader might be able to do this if you roll your own.
-- Jameel Akari
FreeDOS. I also recommend keeping a cheap floppy emulator (via SD card) around just for boot-strapping systems. -Alan On 2017-04-26 12:12, William Dudley via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Anyone know of a DOS 6.22 image that installs from a CDROM?
This would obviously boot into something else, like linux, and then install DOS.
Otherwise, it's a real pagent for me to make dos diskettes and install them to this pizza box. Right now is't booting WinXP, but has a password on it that I don't know, so to use the WinXP install to make floppies, I'd have to use a Linux password fixer disk first. Or install linux on the thing, and use *that* to make floppies. Stupid, right?
Thanks, Bill Dudley
This email is free of malware because I run Linux.
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 11:53 AM, Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Agreed!
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 11:38 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Thank you Jameel and Degnan. Sounds like Bill Dudley's system is the best choice for us.
Good point. I have a $20 Gotek that would probably do the job On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 1:30 PM, Alan Hightower via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
FreeDOS.
I also recommend keeping a cheap floppy emulator (via SD card) around just for boot-strapping systems.
-Alan
On 2017-04-26 12:12, William Dudley via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Anyone know of a DOS 6.22 image that installs from a CDROM?
This would obviously boot into something else, like linux, and then install DOS.
Otherwise, it's a real pagent for me to make dos diskettes and install them to this pizza box. Right now is't booting WinXP, but has a password on it that I don't know, so to use the WinXP install to make floppies, I'd have to use a Linux password fixer disk first. Or install linux on the thing, and use *that* to make floppies. Stupid, right?
Thanks, Bill Dudley
This email is free of malware because I run Linux.
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 11:53 AM, Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Agreed!
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 11:38 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Thank you Jameel and Degnan. Sounds like Bill Dudley's system is the best choice for us.
The MajorBBS will have plenty of games installed, live teleconference (well a chat room, and will be able to have Trivia, Dice rolling, etc), forums, etc. while it supports download sections as well, I'm not sure if that will be populated/enabled at this time. Once it's configured for outside accessibility (telnet/dialup), I could see more of them being populated. One thing I was thinking was that there is a (device/software app?) that makes a telnet connection limited to "Modem" speeds. Not sure if that's something I would implement, but am considering it, to keep the "Feel" of dialup BBSing. Also, I'm looking for someone who may be interested in becoming a co-sysop for the BBS. While experience with MajorBBS isn't required, it would be helpful. I've never been good with ASCII art/menu design, so if you are interested in assisting, email me off the list. Thanks, Joe On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 1:34 PM Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Good point. I have a $20 Gotek that would probably do the job
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 1:30 PM, Alan Hightower via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
FreeDOS.
I also recommend keeping a cheap floppy emulator (via SD card) around just for boot-strapping systems.
-Alan
On 2017-04-26 12:12, William Dudley via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Anyone know of a DOS 6.22 image that installs from a CDROM?
This would obviously boot into something else, like linux, and then install DOS.
Otherwise, it's a real pagent for me to make dos diskettes and install them to this pizza box. Right now is't booting WinXP, but has a password on it that
I
don't know, so to use the WinXP install to make floppies, I'd have to use a Linux password fixer disk first. Or install linux on the thing, and use *that* to make floppies. Stupid, right?
Thanks, Bill Dudley
This email is free of malware because I run Linux.
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 11:53 AM, Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Agreed!
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 11:38 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Thank you Jameel and Degnan. Sounds like Bill Dudley's system is the best choice for us.
-- Normal Person: Hey, it seems that you know a lot. Geek: To be honest, it's due to all the surfing I do. Normal Person: So you go surfing? Normal Person: But I don't think that has anything to do with knowing a lot... Geek: I think that's wrong on a fundamental level. Normal Person: Huh? Huh? What?
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
One thing I was thinking was that there is a (device/software app?) that makes a telnet connection limited to "Modem" speeds. Not sure if that's something I would implement, but am considering it, to keep the "Feel" of dialup BBSing.
Yes! Do that
Where does the telnet interface connect in? Bridged to a physical serial port, or are you talking some DOS TCP/IP and Ethernet in the PC? -- Jameel Akari
On 4/26/2017 3:45 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
One thing I was thinking was that there is a (device/software app?) that makes a telnet connection limited to "Modem" speeds. Not sure if that's something I would implement, but am considering it, to keep the "Feel" of dialup BBSing.
Yes! Do that
You should be able to mod tcpser to do that. Source is online Jim -- RETRO Innovations, Contemporary Gear for Classic Systems www.go4retro.com store.go4retro.com
That's something we may or may not do. While I have read about it, generally one of the advantages of telneting into a BBS is to take advantage of the higher speeds. Plus I actually think there may be a setting buried in the BBS configuration that can limit the data rate over telnet. I've never actually played with "slowing down" a telnet connection in MajorBBS that way. But it's got hundreds if not a couple thousand various configuration options for just about every aspect of the BBS. On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 12:07 AM RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On 4/26/2017 3:45 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
One thing I was thinking was that there is a (device/software app?) that makes a telnet connection limited to "Modem" speeds. Not sure if that's something I would implement, but am considering it, to keep the "Feel" of dialup BBSing.
Yes! Do that
You should be able to mod tcpser to do that. Source is online
Jim
-- RETRO Innovations, Contemporary Gear for Classic Systems www.go4retro.com store.go4retro.com
-- Normal Person: Hey, it seems that you know a lot. Geek: To be honest, it's due to all the surfing I do. Normal Person: So you go surfing? Normal Person: But I don't think that has anything to do with knowing a lot... Geek: I think that's wrong on a fundamental level. Normal Person: Huh? Huh? What?
I'll try experimenting with the BBS I have running on a VM and see if capping it at 2400 baud actually makes a lethargic telnet connection without causing issues. On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 12:17 AM Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
That's something we may or may not do. While I have read about it, generally one of the advantages of telneting into a BBS is to take advantage of the higher speeds.
Advantages, schmantages! :) Let's keep the BBS access to period lethargy regardless of access method.
-- Normal Person: Hey, it seems that you know a lot. Geek: To be honest, it's due to all the surfing I do. Normal Person: So you go surfing? Normal Person: But I don't think that has anything to do with knowing a lot... Geek: I think that's wrong on a fundamental level. Normal Person: Huh? Huh? What?
remember I set up a BBS for the C64 for "MARCH"? If you still have the disk, just stick it in the 1541 drive and turn on the C-64 with a modem attached to the phone system that accepts dial in calls on boot. I tested, works. I used to run it out of my office (my version of some program). At least you can use this to get started. Just edit the screens to no longer say MARCH. You can download this from vintagecomputer.net if you no longer have it. NO it's not fancy but it works out of the box and can get you started in testing things. Setting up the base BBS on a DOS machine takes less than an hour, comm 1 or comm2? I say first get it running and expand over time. Making a "cool" BBS that has lots of useful files and info, that's a part time job. Today you'll find you don't get much traffic, mostly people testing their modems. People talk about BBSs but there is not much activity out there for a real dial in BBS. Not worth running a vintage PC to death, using a C64 long term is wasteful. b On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 12:20 AM, Joseph Oprysko via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
I'll try experimenting with the BBS I have running on a VM and see if capping it at 2400 baud actually makes a lethargic telnet connection without causing issues.
On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 12:17 AM Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
That's something we may or may not do. While I have read about it, generally one of the advantages of telneting into a BBS is to take advantage of the higher speeds.
Advantages, schmantages! :) Let's keep the BBS access to period lethargy regardless of access method.
-- Normal Person: Hey, it seems that you know a lot. Geek: To be honest, it's due to all the surfing I do. Normal Person: So you go surfing? Normal Person: But I don't think that has anything to do with knowing a lot... Geek: I think that's wrong on a fundamental level. Normal Person: Huh? Huh? What?
On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 9:37 AM, william degnan <billdegnan@gmail.com> wrote:
remember I set up a BBS for the C64 for "MARCH"? If you still have the disk, just stick it in the 1541 drive and turn on the C-64 with a modem attached to the phone system that accepts dial in calls on boot. I tested, works. I used to run it out of my office (my version of some program). At least you can use this to get started. Just edit the screens to no longer say MARCH. You can download this from vintagecomputer.net if you no longer have it. NO it's not fancy but it works out of the box and can get you started in testing things.
BTW - If you attach a uIEC to as drive 9, you can host a huge amount of files that way with a very simple setup. Bill
Bill, Do you need a rack shelf to put it on? Martin On 4/26/2017 11:17 AM, William Dudley via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
I have a Compaq Deskpro "pizza box" with Win 98 on it, and it has two serial ports. (It's hard to find serial ports on computers anymore).
I'll see if it'll boot up and let you know how that goes.
If it works, and you want it, I'm close to the museum and can drop off anytime.
Bill Dudley Jackson, NJ
Yes, we need a rack shelf. On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 5:15 PM Martin A Flynn via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Bill,
Do you need a rack shelf to put it on?
Martin
On 4/26/2017 11:17 AM, William Dudley via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
I have a Compaq Deskpro "pizza box" with Win 98 on it, and it has two serial ports. (It's hard to find serial ports on computers anymore).
I'll see if it'll boot up and let you know how that goes.
If it works, and you want it, I'm close to the museum and can drop off anytime.
Bill Dudley Jackson, NJ
We need TWO rack shelves. Prefer solid ones not the kind with big holes in the middle. Also prefer black. One shelf will hold the BBS server. Other shelf will hold various A/V equipment.
Only have one at the moment. On 4/26/2017 5:37 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
We need TWO rack shelves.
Prefer solid ones not the kind with big holes in the middle. Also prefer black.
One shelf will hold the BBS server.
Other shelf will hold various A/V equipment.
Evan, Rather than putting desktop machines on shelves, which eat up your rack space, how about a 1U rack-mount server or two? I have several 32-bit servers that I will donate. I believe I even have rails. Jim On Wed, 26 Apr 2017, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2017 17:37:55 -0400 From: Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> To: Vcf <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> Cc: Evan Koblentz <evan@vcfed.org> Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] Rack shelves
We need TWO rack shelves.
Prefer solid ones not the kind with big holes in the middle. Also prefer black.
One shelf will hold the BBS server.
Other shelf will hold various A/V equipment.
js@sdf.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org
Rather than putting desktop machines on shelves, which eat up your rack space, how about a 1U rack-mount server or two? I have several 32-bit servers that I will donate. I believe I even have rails.
You should catch up with the whole thread. :) A proper server uses more energy, is louder, and is computational overkill for the application. Also we have plenty of rack space.
And your 1U machine probably does not have real serial ports, nor slots to accept modems cards. Bill Dudley This email is free of malware because I run Linux. On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 9:48 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Rather than putting desktop machines on shelves, which eat up your rack space, how about a 1U rack-mount server or two? I have several 32-bit servers that I will donate. I believe I even have rails.
You should catch up with the whole thread. :) A proper server uses more energy, is louder, and is computational overkill for the application. Also we have plenty of rack space.
Bill, Servers from this era generally have two real serial ports and can take one or occasionally two PCI cards. To Evan's point, they are loud. At this age replacing the fans is a good idea and lowers the decibels. No problem if you're not interested... Jim On Sun, 30 Apr 2017, William Dudley via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2017 21:49:46 -0400 From: William Dudley via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> Cc: William Dudley <wfdudley@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Rack shelves
And your 1U machine probably does not have real serial ports, nor slots to accept modems cards.
Bill Dudley
This email is free of malware because I run Linux.
On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 9:48 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Rather than putting desktop machines on shelves, which eat up your rack space, how about a 1U rack-mount server or two? I have several 32-bit servers that I will donate. I believe I even have rails.
You should catch up with the whole thread. :) A proper server uses more energy, is louder, and is computational overkill for the application. Also we have plenty of rack space.
js@sdf.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org
Thanks, I stand corrected on the serial ports and slots question. The Compaq Presario is a "pizza box" computer, so only about 3" high, and almost totally silent. So it doesn't consume much rack space and makes essentially no noise. Bill Dudley This email is free of malware because I run Linux. On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 6:19 PM, Jim Scheef via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Bill, Servers from this era generally have two real serial ports and can take one or occasionally two PCI cards. To Evan's point, they are loud. At this age replacing the fans is a good idea and lowers the decibels. No problem if you're not interested... Jim
On Sun, 30 Apr 2017, William Dudley via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2017 21:49:46 -0400
From: William Dudley via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> Cc: William Dudley <wfdudley@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Rack shelves
And your 1U machine probably does not have real serial ports, nor slots to accept modems cards.
Bill Dudley
This email is free of malware because I run Linux.
On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 9:48 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Rather than putting desktop machines on shelves, which eat up your rack
space, how about a 1U rack-mount server or two? I have several 32-bit servers that I will donate. I believe I even have rails.
You should catch up with the whole thread. :) A proper server uses more energy, is louder, and is computational overkill for the application. Also we have plenty of rack space.
js@sdf.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org
Sounds like a good choice. Jim On Mon, 1 May 2017, William Dudley via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Date: Mon, 1 May 2017 18:24:41 -0400 From: William Dudley via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> Cc: William Dudley <wfdudley@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Rack shelves
Thanks,
I stand corrected on the serial ports and slots question.
The Compaq Presario is a "pizza box" computer, so only about 3" high, and almost totally silent. So it doesn't consume much rack space and makes essentially no noise.
Bill Dudley
This email is free of malware because I run Linux.
On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 6:19 PM, Jim Scheef via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Bill, Servers from this era generally have two real serial ports and can take one or occasionally two PCI cards. To Evan's point, they are loud. At this age replacing the fans is a good idea and lowers the decibels. No problem if you're not interested... Jim
On Sun, 30 Apr 2017, William Dudley via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2017 21:49:46 -0400
From: William Dudley via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> Cc: William Dudley <wfdudley@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Rack shelves
And your 1U machine probably does not have real serial ports, nor slots to accept modems cards.
Bill Dudley
This email is free of malware because I run Linux.
On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 9:48 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Rather than putting desktop machines on shelves, which eat up your rack
space, how about a 1U rack-mount server or two? I have several 32-bit servers that I will donate. I believe I even have rails.
You should catch up with the whole thread. :) A proper server uses more energy, is louder, and is computational overkill for the application. Also we have plenty of rack space.
js@sdf.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org
js@sdf.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org
Will bring one down this Saturday On 4/26/2017 5:29 PM, Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Yes, we need a rack shelf.
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 5:15 PM Martin A Flynn via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Bill,
Do you need a rack shelf to put it on?
Martin
On 4/26/2017 11:17 AM, William Dudley via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
I have a Compaq Deskpro "pizza box" with Win 98 on it, and it has two serial ports. (It's hard to find serial ports on computers anymore).
I'll see if it'll boot up and let you know how that goes.
If it works, and you want it, I'm close to the museum and can drop off anytime.
Bill Dudley Jackson, NJ
This computer has TWO slots for cards. One has a sound card in it, the other is empty. So if you want a DOS Ethernet connection, you'll need to find a NIC that works with DOS, and populate that second slot. If you need more than the two on-motherboard serial ports, you'll need to remove the sound card and put a serial card in there. The riser board that has the "slots" has to PCI connectors, plus one of the slots also has an ISA expansion connector, so it can "swing both ways". I *may* have a NIC that works in this box. I'll start looking for something like a 3C509 in my "collection". If I find a NIC, do you want me to install PC-TCP? That's a full network implementation for DOS, telnet, ftp, etc. However, there isn't any way to run telnet as a daemon. Does the BBS software know how to do that if you have a TCP-IP stack installed? Bill Dudley Bill This email is free of malware because I run Linux. On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 5:46 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Will bring one down this Saturday
Okay. Schedule privately via Jeff Brace.
If you need more than the two on-motherboard serial ports, you'll need to remove the sound card and put a serial card in there.
Good to know.
I *may* have a NIC that works in this box. I'll start looking for something like a 3C509 in my "collection".
Thanks.
If I find a NIC, do you want me to install PC-TCP? That's a full network implementation for DOS, telnet, ftp, etc.
Yes.
However, there isn't any way to run telnet as a daemon. Does the BBS software know how to do that if you have a TCP-IP stack installed?
I don't know. Joe O., are you reading this?
What I would need is just a packet driver installed for the NIC. The MajorBBS software has a TCP/IP module which will handle the telnet capable lines, etc. On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 6:18 PM, William Dudley via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
This computer has TWO slots for cards. One has a sound card in it, the other is empty.
So if you want a DOS Ethernet connection, you'll need to find a NIC that works with DOS, and populate that second slot.
If you need more than the two on-motherboard serial ports, you'll need to remove the sound card and put a serial card in there.
The riser board that has the "slots" has to PCI connectors, plus one of the slots also has an ISA expansion connector, so it can "swing both ways".
I *may* have a NIC that works in this box. I'll start looking for something like a 3C509 in my "collection".
If I find a NIC, do you want me to install PC-TCP? That's a full network implementation for DOS, telnet, ftp, etc. However, there isn't any way to run telnet as a daemon. Does the BBS software know how to do that if you have a TCP-IP stack installed?
Bill Dudley
Bill
This email is free of malware because I run Linux.
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 5:46 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Will bring one down this Saturday
Okay. Schedule privately via Jeff Brace.
-- Normal Person: Hey, it seems that you know a lot. Geek: To be honest, it's due to all the surfing I do. Normal Person: So you go surfing? Normal Person: But I don't think that has anything to do with knowing a lot... Geek: I think that's wrong on a fundamental level. Normal Person: Huh? Huh? What?
I believe the 3C509 came with a packet driver if memory serves. On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 6:29 PM Joseph Oprysko via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
What I would need is just a packet driver installed for the NIC. The MajorBBS software has a TCP/IP module which will handle the telnet capable lines, etc.
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 6:18 PM, William Dudley via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
This computer has TWO slots for cards. One has a sound card in it, the other is empty.
So if you want a DOS Ethernet connection, you'll need to find a NIC that works with DOS, and populate that second slot.
If you need more than the two on-motherboard serial ports, you'll need to remove the sound card and put a serial card in there.
The riser board that has the "slots" has to PCI connectors, plus one of the slots also has an ISA expansion connector, so it can "swing both ways".
I *may* have a NIC that works in this box. I'll start looking for something like a 3C509 in my "collection".
If I find a NIC, do you want me to install PC-TCP? That's a full network implementation for DOS, telnet, ftp, etc. However, there isn't any way to run telnet as a daemon. Does the BBS software know how to do that if you have a TCP-IP stack installed?
Bill Dudley
Bill
This email is free of malware because I run Linux.
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 5:46 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Will bring one down this Saturday
Okay. Schedule privately via Jeff Brace.
-- Normal Person: Hey, it seems that you know a lot. Geek: To be honest, it's due to all the surfing I do. Normal Person: So you go surfing? Normal Person: But I don't think that has anything to do with knowing a lot... Geek: I think that's wrong on a fundamental level. Normal Person: Huh? Huh? What?
Evan can you provide more detail about what you have so far. Why MS DOS BBS...I assume you have Tomcat bbs or something like it? Bill Degnan twitter: billdeg vintagecomputer.net On Apr 26, 2017 6:29 PM, "Joseph Oprysko via vcf-midatlantic" < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
What I would need is just a packet driver installed for the NIC. The MajorBBS software has a TCP/IP module which will handle the telnet capable lines, etc.
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 6:18 PM, William Dudley via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
This computer has TWO slots for cards. One has a sound card in it, the other is empty.
So if you want a DOS Ethernet connection, you'll need to find a NIC that works with DOS, and populate that second slot.
If you need more than the two on-motherboard serial ports, you'll need to remove the sound card and put a serial card in there.
The riser board that has the "slots" has to PCI connectors, plus one of the slots also has an ISA expansion connector, so it can "swing both ways".
I *may* have a NIC that works in this box. I'll start looking for something like a 3C509 in my "collection".
If I find a NIC, do you want me to install PC-TCP? That's a full network implementation for DOS, telnet, ftp, etc. However, there isn't any way to run telnet as a daemon. Does the BBS software know how to do that if you have a TCP-IP stack installed?
Bill Dudley
Bill
This email is free of malware because I run Linux.
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 5:46 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Will bring one down this Saturday
Okay. Schedule privately via Jeff Brace.
-- Normal Person: Hey, it seems that you know a lot. Geek: To be honest, it's due to all the surfing I do. Normal Person: So you go surfing? Normal Person: But I don't think that has anything to do with knowing a lot... Geek: I think that's wrong on a fundamental level. Normal Person: Huh? Huh? What?
Evan can you provide more detail about what you have so far. Why MS DOS BBS...I assume you have Tomcat bbs or something like it?
MajorBBS. It's what Joe prefers. That is important becauss everyone else who said "I can make a BBS" over the years flaked out and/or wanted something that wasn't appropriate for us.
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
What I would need is just a packet driver installed for the NIC. The MajorBBS software has a TCP/IP module which will handle the telnet capable lines, etc.
Thanks for the info.
Ahh, ok that's what I was getting at. Cool, don't need to rig up some external console server kind of thing. (Though, that'd get you authentic serial port speeds!) -- Jameel Akari
It is rather awesome. I've mostly been using it within a VM using VirtualBox. It's nice because I can redirect physical serial ports/modems into the VM. And running in the background. (I have a USR USB modem connected into the VM). On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 1:13 PM Ethan via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Ahh, ok that's what I was getting at. Cool, don't need to rig up some external console server kind of thing. (Though, that'd get you authentic serial port speeds!)
The fact that MajorBBS can terminate tcp/ip connections to a dos app is awesome.
-- Normal Person: Hey, it seems that you know a lot. Geek: To be honest, it's due to all the surfing I do. Normal Person: So you go surfing? Normal Person: But I don't think that has anything to do with knowing a lot... Geek: I think that's wrong on a fundamental level. Normal Person: Huh? Huh? What?
What I would need is just a packet driver installed for the NIC. The MajorBBS software has a TCP/IP module which will handle the telnet capable lines, etc.
Earlier after I commented (Having no idea that you all were using MajorBBS, When I dumped on it in my earlier comment that was totally random luck! No offense hopefully :-) I started googling BBSes a little bit and noticed this network card packet driver to other machine to terminate internet connection stuff. I had no idea it was a thing on TBBS or MajorBBS. With MajorBBS, do you IPX/SPX over to another host running another program (and IPX/SPX) to terminate the internet connections?
On 04/26/2017 06:18 PM, William Dudley via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
This computer has TWO slots for cards. One has a sound card in it, the other is empty.
So if you want a DOS Ethernet connection, you'll need to find a NIC that works with DOS, and populate that second slot.
If you need more than the two on-motherboard serial ports, you'll need to remove the sound card and put a serial card in there.
The riser board that has the "slots" has to PCI connectors, plus one of the slots also has an ISA expansion connector, so it can "swing both ways".
I have at least 2 ISA NICs from the DOS era.I have no use for them. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
Well, the sooner I get the machine, the sooner I can get the BBS up and running for the museum. Once that's up and running stable, I will work on setting up the external connections. As for the ram for the machine, the MajorBBS software uses the Phar-Lap Extender, so the more memory it has, the better it will run, especially for when it's connected to the "outside" world. On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 7:14 PM, Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On 04/26/2017 06:18 PM, William Dudley via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
This computer has TWO slots for cards. One has a sound card in it, the other is empty.
So if you want a DOS Ethernet connection, you'll need to find a NIC that works with DOS, and populate that second slot.
If you need more than the two on-motherboard serial ports, you'll need to remove the sound card and put a serial card in there.
The riser board that has the "slots" has to PCI connectors, plus one of the slots also has an ISA expansion connector, so it can "swing both ways".
I have at least 2 ISA NICs from the DOS era.I have no use for them.
-- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
-- Normal Person: Hey, it seems that you know a lot. Geek: To be honest, it's due to all the surfing I do. Normal Person: So you go surfing? Normal Person: But I don't think that has anything to do with knowing a lot... Geek: I think that's wrong on a fundamental level. Normal Person: Huh? Huh? What?
On 04/26/2017 07:19 PM, Joseph Oprysko wrote:
Well, the sooner I get the machine, the sooner I can get the BBS up and running for the museum. Once that's up and running stable, I will work on setting up the external connections. As for the ram for the machine, the MajorBBS software uses the Phar-Lap Extender, so the more memory it has, the better it will run, especially for when it's connected to the "outside" world.
I've got at least 2 different 3com Etherlink III boards (both have TP), -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
Joe, I've got an NE2000 clone that I can supply with the machine. The motherboard has a 100baseT NIC built-in, but I doubt there's a DOS driver for that. If the NE2000 clone is sufficient, then we don't have to ask anyone else for a NIC. Thanks, Bill Dudley This email is free of malware because I run Linux. On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 7:19 PM, Joseph Oprysko via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
Well, the sooner I get the machine, the sooner I can get the BBS up and running for the museum. Once that's up and running stable, I will work on setting up the external connections. As for the ram for the machine, the MajorBBS software uses the Phar-Lap Extender, so the more memory it has, the better it will run, especially for when it's connected to the "outside" world.
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 7:14 PM, Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On 04/26/2017 06:18 PM, William Dudley via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
This computer has TWO slots for cards. One has a sound card in it, the other is empty.
So if you want a DOS Ethernet connection, you'll need to find a NIC that works with DOS, and populate that second slot.
If you need more than the two on-motherboard serial ports, you'll need to remove the sound card and put a serial card in there.
The riser board that has the "slots" has to PCI connectors, plus one of the slots also has an ISA expansion connector, so it can "swing both ways".
I have at least 2 ISA NICs from the DOS era.I have no use for them.
-- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
-- Normal Person: Hey, it seems that you know a lot. Geek: To be honest, it's due to all the surfing I do. Normal Person: So you go surfing? Normal Person: But I don't think that has anything to do with knowing a lot... Geek: I think that's wrong on a fundamental level. Normal Person: Huh? Huh? What?
No, the built in NIC is unlikely to be have a DOS driver, so you need the NE2000 NIC, which takes a slot. If you need another slot, you'll have to sacrifice the sound card. Bill This email is free of malware because I run Linux. On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 8:57 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
If the NE2000 clone is sufficient, then we don't have to ask anyone else for a NIC.
...And it would save a slot for another modem later.
Bill, what is the make/model of the machine? I'll look around for a DOS packet driver just incase something like that beast exists. Using less IRQ's is better.. :) On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 9:02 PM, William Dudley via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
No, the built in NIC is unlikely to be have a DOS driver, so you need the NE2000 NIC, which takes a slot. If you need another slot, you'll have to sacrifice the sound card.
Bill
This email is free of malware because I run Linux.
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 8:57 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
If the NE2000 clone is sufficient, then we don't have to ask anyone else for a NIC.
...And it would save a slot for another modem later.
-- Normal Person: Hey, it seems that you know a lot. Geek: To be honest, it's due to all the surfing I do. Normal Person: So you go surfing? Normal Person: But I don't think that has anything to do with knowing a lot... Geek: I think that's wrong on a fundamental level. Normal Person: Huh? Huh? What?
It's just that there likely IS a packet driver for that machine, as Netware required packet drivers. And Compaq *IS* was business class machine back in those days. On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 9:33 PM, Joseph Oprysko <joprysko1@gmail.com> wrote:
Bill, what is the make/model of the machine? I'll look around for a DOS packet driver just incase something like that beast exists. Using less IRQ's is better.. :)
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 9:02 PM, William Dudley via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
No, the built in NIC is unlikely to be have a DOS driver, so you need the NE2000 NIC, which takes a slot. If you need another slot, you'll have to sacrifice the sound card.
Bill
This email is free of malware because I run Linux.
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 8:57 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
If the NE2000 clone is sufficient, then we don't have to ask anyone else for a NIC.
...And it would save a slot for another modem later.
-- Normal Person: Hey, it seems that you know a lot. Geek: To be honest, it's due to all the surfing I do. Normal Person: So you go surfing? Normal Person: But I don't think that has anything to do with knowing a lot... Geek: I think that's wrong on a fundamental level. Normal Person: Huh? Huh? What?
-- Normal Person: Hey, it seems that you know a lot. Geek: To be honest, it's due to all the surfing I do. Normal Person: So you go surfing? Normal Person: But I don't think that has anything to do with knowing a lot... Geek: I think that's wrong on a fundamental level. Normal Person: Huh? Huh? What?
participants (14)
-
Alan Hightower -
Dean Notarnicola -
Douglas Crawford -
Ethan -
Evan Koblentz -
Evan Koblentz -
Jameel Akari -
Jim Scheef -
Joseph Oprysko -
Martin A Flynn -
Neil Cherry -
RETRO Innovations -
william degnan -
William Dudley