Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Announcement: Administrative and Policy Changes
If we're talking legal ownership... a significant portion of the collection has been 'tainted' by artifacts owned by Infoage (namely the Grabbe collection, or a *portion of* the Grabbe collection) which have mingled with the MARCH/VCFed collection for years. Many details regarding this have only resurfaced recently (as in the past year, though several long-time members have always known some portion of the details) and it's been something of a massive headache to untangle, especially given the lack of a unified inventory for the past 19 years of acquisitions - I've found a few spreadsheets with no more than a few dozen items each, at most, which is nowhere near the thousands of individual artifacts which are now (or were in the past) within the warehouse/collection. It has taken me many, many hours of research, digging, and questioning to identify as much of the Grabbe collection as I have thus far - which could be anywhere between 15% and 75% of the total. There are other Infoage artifacts and collections mixed in - for instance, an entire "ready-to-run" Amdahl mainframe was donated to Infoage by AT&T in 1997. Aside from the 4705 communications processor, which was scrapped over a decade ago, much of the system is still present - but I have no way of knowing just *how* *much* of it is still here because I have no list of items, no photographs of the system as donated, and wide gaps in the admittedly threadbare timeline I have been able to put together for the machine's life since it was donated. Until recently, a number of long-time members believed the entire system to have been scrapped! Until all of these details can be worked out, it is potentially dangerous to assume that everything belongs to VCFed. We are a chapter of VCF, meaning that anything that we own is by extension owned by VCF anyways - but without a formal accessioning policy, the line between 'inventory' and 'collection' doesn't exist, and ownership can remain up in the air. Many recent acquisitions were collected using money from Mid-Atlantic's budget that was itself obtained directly through Mid-Atlantic's own fundraising - an argument can be made that, for such artifacts, VCFed may own them *through* us, but not directly, for whatever difference that even makes. These things need to be defined in writing, not in verbal agreements. Trying to hammer out a formal collections policy - which I have taken on as my personal responsibility - has been severely complicated by the fact that there is no simple answer to the question "what is the collection?" as I've described above, but I'm slowly getting there. And, frankly, the blaring priority as of late has been to address the physical maintenance of the warehouse itself, which we are unquestionably responsible for... alongside Infoage... and Wall township... and, apparently, the Army. Many strange revelations as of late. Feel free to contact me off-list (thomas.gilinsky@vcfed.org) if you'd like to directly clarify anything to me regarding how the details of the collection have been argued - I can always use the info! On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 1:06 PM Tony Bogan via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Functionally doesn’t change the fact that VCF MA (did we suddenly decide now it’s MARCH without any further discussion? I want MACE seriously considered :-) does not own or have any rights to the collection. This was made abundantly clear to those of us that created the 501c in the first place almost 10 years ago.
Additionally, what was originally intended doesn’t change the fact you just stated. Namely that most of the money comes from National and has since the start.
Just trying to keep the discussion real and on point as a lack of information has been a problem since the start as vid ever by this very discussion.
There have been numerous discussions over the years about the collection, who owns it, what is to be done with it, how it should be managed etc etc. as well as questions raised by those who have donated or who reached out to us for a rescue.
Knowing the potential legal issues that could arise if ever there was an issue, these are important things to not o ly keep in the discussion but accurately disseminate to the membership.
The computers and artifacts are not the property of VCF MA, MARCH or even MAACE :-) :-)
Functionality not withstanding.
I’ve deleted the rest of my response.
Tony Bogan
On Oct 29, 2024, at 12:54 PM, RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
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After ~60 messages in this thread I asked Apple Mail to Summarize it all: "The local chapter’s name, MARCH, has been a subject of discussion, with some members suggesting a return to the original name. Despite the name change, the organization’s mission and activities remain unchanged. The chapter is considering ordering swag with the MARCH name for local events." LOL. It's not wrong. -andy
I suppose Apple Mail is the new Internet Oracle™ And in response, thus spake the Oracle - "You owe the Oracle some swag" --- For the uninitiated: Internet Oracle - Wikipedia <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Oracle> On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 2:13 PM Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
After ~60 messages in this thread I asked Apple Mail to Summarize it all:
"The local chapter’s name, MARCH, has been a subject of discussion, with some members suggesting a return to the original name. Despite the name change, the organization’s mission and activities remain unchanged. The chapter is considering ordering swag with the MARCH name for local events."
LOL. It's not wrong.
-andy
Here's how chatgpt summarized it, not to be confused with Herbot ;) The email chain covers proposed administrative and structural changes within the Vintage Computer Federation (VCF) Mid-Atlantic chapter. Key points include: 1. *Leadership Changes*: Jeff Salzman has stepped down as Steering Committee Chairman, with Thomas Gilinsky taking over. 2. *Name Change Proposal*: There’s discussion around renaming "VCF Mid-Atlantic" back to "MARCH" (Mid Atlantic Retro Computing Hobbyists) for greater clarity and connection to its historical roots. Some members argue that the current name causes confusion with VCF National and events like VCF East. 3. *Regional Identity and Consistency*: Suggestions vary, with some members preferring "MARCH" for continuity, while others propose names better reflecting the geographic range, like "Northeast." 4. *Club Structure and Engagement*: Members express concerns about the club’s declining local engagement, particularly the low turnout for workshops and limited newcomer involvement. Suggestions are made to improve membership structure, community outreach, and engagement. 5. *VCF Brand and Merchandise*: The organization assures that VCF branding will remain, preserving the relevance of existing "VCF" merchandise, with potential new "MARCH" chapter-specific items. This discussion underscores a desire to strengthen the chapter’s identity, streamline communication, and boost member involvement while aligning more clearly with VCF’s mission and structure On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 2:31 PM Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I suppose Apple Mail is the new Internet Oracle™
And in response, thus spake the Oracle - "You owe the Oracle some swag"
--- For the uninitiated: Internet Oracle - Wikipedia <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Oracle>
On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 2:13 PM Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
After ~60 messages in this thread I asked Apple Mail to Summarize it all:
"The local chapter’s name, MARCH, has been a subject of discussion, with some members suggesting a return to the original name. Despite the name change, the organization’s mission and activities remain unchanged. The chapter is considering ordering swag with the MARCH name for local events."
LOL. It's not wrong.
-andy
-- Bart Hirst "This signature will now be eaten up and spit out by Velociraptors."
#1 is close... I didn't officially step down. I exercised a clause in the Steering Committee by-laws to designate a delegate to act in the capacity as Chairman. The Chairman is selected and/or voted in by a majority vote of the Steering Committee members at the beginning of each term year, which typically starts during the Festivus event. In light of current issues involving Warehouse building repairs and updates, our obligations to InfoAge, and the newest issue involving the loss of the overnight stay privileges we had at InfoAge, it was best to delegate the actions needed to someone who can interact with InfoAge on a more immediate basis. The Steering Committee Chairman is the official liaison to InfoAge. I'm not giving up my involvement in the organization, but a LOT of stuff needs to be done in a very short amount of time, and remote involvement (I'm more than 2.5 hours away) won't be nearly as effective as in-person involvement for our immediate issues. Thomas nearly lives next door to InfoAge, and has a far more flexible time schedule to interact with InfoAge in an official capacity as a Steering Committee representative. One of the things that needs to be resolved quickly is regaining our privilege to use the bunkhouse. Not having that can adversely affect Festivus. Thomas is already spearheading that effort. If I were to directly step down, the rest of the Steering Committee would have been required to vote for a new Chairman. Since my seat on the Steering Committee is up for the upcoming election process next month, a judgment call was made under the rules to delegate the authority instead. The new Steering Committee for next year will vote for a Chairman of their own. Thomas' position is the only Steering Committee position NOT open for next year. He is still on the Committee until December 2025. Jeff Salzman On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 2:52 PM Bart Hirst via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Here's how chatgpt summarized it, not to be confused with Herbot ;)
The email chain covers proposed administrative and structural changes within the Vintage Computer Federation (VCF) Mid-Atlantic chapter. Key points include:
1.
*Leadership Changes*: Jeff Salzman has stepped down as Steering Committee Chairman, with Thomas Gilinsky taking over. 2.
*Name Change Proposal*: There’s discussion around renaming "VCF Mid-Atlantic" back to "MARCH" (Mid Atlantic Retro Computing Hobbyists) for greater clarity and connection to its historical roots. Some members argue that the current name causes confusion with VCF National and events like VCF East. 3.
*Regional Identity and Consistency*: Suggestions vary, with some members preferring "MARCH" for continuity, while others propose names better reflecting the geographic range, like "Northeast." 4.
*Club Structure and Engagement*: Members express concerns about the club’s declining local engagement, particularly the low turnout for workshops and limited newcomer involvement. Suggestions are made to improve membership structure, community outreach, and engagement. 5.
*VCF Brand and Merchandise*: The organization assures that VCF branding will remain, preserving the relevance of existing "VCF" merchandise, with potential new "MARCH" chapter-specific items.
This discussion underscores a desire to strengthen the chapter’s identity, streamline communication, and boost member involvement while aligning more clearly with VCF’s mission and structure
On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 2:31 PM Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I suppose Apple Mail is the new Internet Oracle™
And in response, thus spake the Oracle - "You owe the Oracle some swag"
--- For the uninitiated: Internet Oracle - Wikipedia <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Oracle>
On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 2:13 PM Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
After ~60 messages in this thread I asked Apple Mail to Summarize it all:
"The local chapter’s name, MARCH, has been a subject of discussion, with some members suggesting a return to the original name. Despite the name change, the organization’s mission and activities remain unchanged. The chapter is considering ordering swag with the MARCH name for local events."
LOL. It's not wrong.
-andy
-- Bart Hirst "This signature will now be eaten up and spit out by Velociraptors."
Is there really a drop in engagement and participation? I came in at the tail end of things when workshops had like 5 people showing up. They seem to be packed the last three years, the Festival is bigger than ever, swap meets continue to get lots of participants and YT videos.... Ever since I've been involved there has always been a focus on outreach, it seems to have been paying off (again, in the past three years esp). YT exposure continues to be a huge driver to get people to an event.
On Oct 29, 2024, at 2:52 PM, Bart Hirst via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
4. *Club Structure and Engagement*: Members express concerns about the club’s declining local engagement, particularly the low turnout for workshops and limited newcomer involvement. Suggestions are made to improve membership structure, community outreach, and engagement.
-andy
In terms of local membership - the people who can come in and docent in the museum or pitch in with the warehouse *on any given day* - we've been hurting for more people for a long, long time. Only in the past 2-3 months is the pool of docents more than 3-4 people - I can't even docent myself anymore, because my other responsibilities have me all over campus whenever I'm at Infoage. With such a small pool of people to pick from, people get burnt out far quicker. It's not very fun to docent when you're the only person in the museum all day. We have made numerous calls for more help with docenting on the list - but because so many people on this mailing list are really only here for info on the festivals and swap meets, it's not realistic to expect them to have an interest in docenting, particularly when many of them live 2+ hours away from Infoage. We don't want to exclude our more distant members from participation in our bigger events, but there is a feeling of frustration at the irony that VCF east draws record-breaking numbers of attendees and exhibitors while it's the same crew of no more than a dozen people left running the show at Infoage year-round. On Wed, Oct 30, 2024 at 9:03 AM Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Is there really a drop in engagement and participation? I came in at the tail end of things when workshops had like 5 people showing up. They seem to be packed the last three years, the Festival is bigger than ever, swap meets continue to get lots of participants and YT videos....
Ever since I've been involved there has always been a focus on outreach, it seems to have been paying off (again, in the past three years esp). YT exposure continues to be a huge driver to get people to an event.
On Oct 29, 2024, at 2:52 PM, Bart Hirst via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
4. *Club Structure and Engagement*: Members express concerns about the club’s declining local engagement, particularly the low turnout for workshops and limited newcomer involvement. Suggestions are made to improve membership structure, community outreach, and engagement.
-andy
Might be of interest - On 10/29/2024 1:54 PM, Thomas G via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
for instance, an entire "ready-to-run" Amdahl mainframe was donated to Infoage by AT&T in 1997. Aside from the 4705 communications processor, which was scrapped over a decade ago, much of the system is still present - but I have no way of knowing just *how* *much* of it is still here because I have no list of items, no photographs of the system as donated, and wide gaps in the admittedly threadbare timeline I have been able to put together for the machine's life since it was donated. Until recently, a number of long-time members believed the entire system to have been scrapped! Until all of these details can be worked out, it is potentially dangerous to assume that everything belongs to VCFed.
participants (5)
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Andrew Diller -
Bart Hirst -
Jeff Salzman -
Martin A. Flynn -
Thomas G